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post #1 of 38 Old 03-09-2011, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Panasonic TC-L32U3 is available now and I am somewhat interested.

I an IPS LG 32ld450 which I use as a computer monitor and for PS3 gaming. I use a 50 inch plasma to watch movies. I am very pleased with the input lag and text because of 4:4:4 chroma but not very happy about black levels.

I am interested in Panasonic because it has game mode and hopefully it will have low input lag and Panasonics usually have good black levels. That leaves the text.

Does anyone know if the Panasonic TC-L32U3 is capable of 4:4:4 for text? Where can I get this information?
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post #2 of 38 Old 03-10-2011, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nanobeast View Post

Panasonic TC-L32U3 is available now and I am somewhat interested.

I an IPS LG 32ld450 which I use as a computer monitor and for PS3 gaming. I use a 50 inch plasma to watch movies. I am very pleased with the input lag and text because of 4:4:4 chroma but not very happy about black levels.

I am interested in Panasonic because it has game mode and hopefully it will have low input lag and Panasonics usually have good black levels. That leaves the text.

Does anyone know if the Panasonic TC-L32U3 is capable of 4:4:4 for text? Where can I get this information?

I've been looking high and low for this information for a couple months to no avail. I considered at one time going with the LG, but ended up deciding to wait due to reports of unimpressive black levels. Everything I've read says the Panasonic should be a better choice, even the older model, except that the previous model didn't support 4:4:4.

I'm tempted to take my laptop to a local store and try it myself once they get them in stock, unless someone can help us out with this information.
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post #3 of 38 Old 03-15-2011, 06:18 PM
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I just ordered this model to use as a computer monitor and for the PS3. I'd be happy to run a test for 4:4:4 chroma. I did a bit of research and downloaded a test pattern to put on the TV, so I'll update you here after I get it. If you could provide me with what details you know about testing for 4:4:4, then that would help.
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post #4 of 38 Old 03-15-2011, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nanobeast View Post

Panasonic TC-L32U3 is available now and I am somewhat interested.

I am interested in Panasonic because it has game mode and hopefully it will have low input lag and Panasonics usually have good black levels. That leaves the text.

For whatever it's worth, a friend of mine got a TC-37U22 a while ago and, while it's a very good TV overall, black-levels are definitely its weak spot. I'd say its black levels are definitely no better than, and most likely a bit worse than, my LG 47LD520.

Again, for what it's worth.
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post #5 of 38 Old 03-15-2011, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xeno99 View Post

I just ordered this model to use as a computer monitor and for the PS3. I'd be happy to run a test for 4:4:4 chroma. I did a bit of research and downloaded a test pattern to put on the TV, so I'll update you here after I get it. If you could provide me with what details you know about testing for 4:4:4, then that would help.

That would be perfect. From my research, red single pixel wide vertical lines show it most obviously. One of the better tests I saw had vertical single pixel wide red lines with solid black in between. They started with lines alternating every other pixed (red, black, red, black) then spaced them out a little more (red, black, black, red, black black, red) and so on. Lack of proper 4:4:4 support will make some of the red lines darker than others, and if you shift the whole image to the right or left by 1 pixel, the ones that are darker change. Camera shots of your observations would be awesome.

Does your video card have an HDMI out on it, or will you be using a DVI>HDMI cable to connect to the TV? I've heard this can make a difference as to whether the 4:4:4 processing gets 'turned on' or not, FYI.

There is a shot here of what to look for. The image on the left is full resolution 4:4:4, the one on the right is 4:2:2...notice the smearing on the right image, the black between the red lines isn't completely black--and the red lines vary in brightness/clarity.
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post #6 of 38 Old 03-16-2011, 10:30 AM
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Ok, thanks. My test pattern picture has what you describe in it, so we are good to go. On the cable issue - I have both, and I have a HDMI out on my video card, so which one activates the 4:4:4? Thanks.
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post #7 of 38 Old 03-16-2011, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I ordered the TV today via Amazon and should have it by Friday. I will compare it to the IPS LG 32LD450 I currently own.

A very simple test for 4:4:4 is to look at the red and magenta colored texts. If they look nice and crisp its a 4:4:4. If they look much fuzzier and worse compared to other colors, its not a 4:4:4.

If the Panasonic can do 4:4:4 and has similar or lower input lag than the LG, I will be keeping it because I think it will have better black levels and no edge bleeding like the LG one does.
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post #8 of 38 Old 03-16-2011, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xeno99 View Post

Ok, thanks. My test pattern picture has what you describe in it, so we are good to go. On the cable issue - I have both, and I have a HDMI out on my video card, so which one activates the 4:4:4? Thanks.

On the LG (and maybe others as well?) HDMI-HDMI connection does not support 4:4:4. Folks have to either use the DVI-HDMI connection or a software override to enable 4:4:4.

This might or might not be true of this Panasonic provided it even has the 4:4:4 capability.
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post #9 of 38 Old 03-16-2011, 03:22 PM
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When using the Magenta/Red 444 test, be careful on how you gauge the level of fuzziness. I recently tested the Vizio XVT473SV using the Magenta/Red test and surprisingly, the magenta/red text was sharp... but just a teensy bit off. If I had never seen what a true 4:4:4 rendering looked like, I would have mistakenly said the TV was 4:4:4 capable.

The absolutely surest way to test 4:4:4 is to use the belle-nuit chart (the vertical red pixel column test).
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post #10 of 38 Old 03-17-2011, 01:59 PM
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Thanks for the advice. Turns out the pattern I downloaded was the belle-nuit chart (I got it from a link on the forum). I'm due to receive the TV tomorrow, but if nanobeast gets his info up first then we can go with that (or compare).
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post #11 of 38 Old 03-19-2011, 03:53 AM
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What, no news?
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post #12 of 38 Old 03-20-2011, 09:21 PM
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When I saw a local retailer had this set on sale starting today, I couldn't help myself and ran out to buy one...making sure of course there is no restocking fee for returns.

It turns out this otherwise excellent TV will have to go back. For watching TV and probably console gaming, the picture seemed excellent to me. Nice blacks, and in my limited time playing with it I didn't notice any backlight bleeding at all.

For PC use however, it fails the 4:4:4 test using a DVI>HDMI cable from my GTX 260 to the TV. I also found that even with the sharpness control turned all the way down to zero, there was still some 'vertical' ringing or edge enhancement that I couldn't turn off. All extra noise reduction, auto adjust features and so forth were all set to off. The only thing that made the ringing less noticeable was jacking up the contrast all the way to 100, which doesn't seem right to me. There was also some dynamic contrast adjustment going on that I couldn't find a way to turn off, but perhaps this is normal now for these sets with dynamic contrast ratios?

To top it off, the support rep I chatted with at Panasonic last week who assured me she would get back to me with the information about the 4:4:4 support never got back to me. Meh...

I guess I'll wait and see if the new LGs still properly handle 4:4:4 over HDMI, and maybe have improved black levels.

I've attached some not so great phone pictures of some text from this thread to show the ringing issue, and the Belle-Nuit chart showing the 4:4:4 failure--both as displayed on the TC-L32U3.
LL
LL
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post #13 of 38 Old 03-20-2011, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmhart View Post

I've attached some not so great phone pictures of some text from this thread to show the ringing issue, and the Belle-Nuit chart showing the 4:4:4 failure--both as displayed on the TC-L32U3.

Thanks for the awesome post. Always refreshing to see observations that are backed up with photographic evidence
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post #14 of 38 Old 03-20-2011, 10:21 PM
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I'm very interested in this TV as my first HDTV, primarily used for console gaming. My first concern above all else is input lag.

If anybody can do an input lag test for this TV I would greatly appreciate it. I've been searching online everywhere for such a test.

I'm hoping it will be no more than around 15ms (no more than a single frame) of lag, like the X1, S1, and LG 32LD450 sets.

Thanks a lot for the help
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post #15 of 38 Old 05-27-2011, 03:51 PM
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Consumer Reports has Panasonic at the top of the list for fewest
repairs, both for LCD and plasma. I like the Apple 27" monitor
a lot, but word is that the LG panels have problems with tinting
and backlight bleed. And there are technical problems if you aren't
using it with a Mac. The TC-L32U3 seems like a possible alternative
that would be more reliable, fewer problems to overcome, and 1/2
the price. And has a TV tuner. Fewer pixels, and a bit large on the
desk, but you can't have everything. But this 4:4:4 test failure
sounds pretty bad, as I need easy to read text. I was already
worried about the antiglare, even though it appears to be a lot
milder than many displays. I'd prefer full glossy like the Apple.

Does anyone know *why* the Panasonic TC-L32U3 fails the 4:4:4 test?
Is this the sort of thing that they might be able to fix with a
firmware update? Or is it hardwired?

Do most TVs fail the 4:4:4 test?
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post #16 of 38 Old 06-10-2011, 12:08 AM
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Can someone explain what is 4:4:4? I am interested in this TV as it is 1080p, perfect to use a computer monitor with a 3' viewing distance. A sales rep is willing to deduct $70 off a display model and the only unit available, no more brand new. The rep said TC-L32U3 is last year's model. Is he right? Is Panny's IPS Alpha Panel really that much better? LG's LE5300 has rare IPS panel also. The display model is connected to a computer as a monitor via DVI to HDMI. The text appears clear. Would you buy a display model and why?
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post #17 of 38 Old 06-10-2011, 08:31 AM
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> Can someone explain what is 4:4:4?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1320717
has photos of the TC-L32U3 failing a 4:4:4 test.

If there is some way to get the TC-L32U3 to do 4:4:4
I would love to hear about it.
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post #18 of 38 Old 06-13-2011, 04:36 PM
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Regarding ringing and haloing around text, I've got exactly the same problem, and have spent 3-4 hours making various adjustments, checking that everything relating to edge enhancement, etc., is shut off, but no joy.

Are there any more parameters in the firmware? and how does one access them?

Nicholas Bedworth, CTO
DigitalDirect Development Corporation
www.digitaldirect.com

(310) 633-7677
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post #19 of 38 Old 06-13-2011, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtcb View Post
Can someone explain what is 4:4:4? I am interested in this TV as it is 1080p, perfect to use a computer monitor with a 3' viewing distance. A sales rep is willing to deduct $70 off a display model and the only unit available, no more brand new. The rep said TC-L32U3 is last year's model. Is he right? Is Panny's IPS Alpha Panel really that much better? LG's LE5300 has rare IPS panel also. The display model is connected to a computer as a monitor via DVI to HDMI. The text appears clear. Would you buy a display model and why?
I wouldn't mind, but I would have them through in a longer warranty too.
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post #20 of 38 Old 06-21-2011, 03:05 PM
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Found this thread via Google. I don't know anything about all this 4:4:4 stuff, but I also had this "ringing" problem where a white glow appears around text, with this TV connected to my laptop via HDMI.

I tried various suggestions I found on the internet. Setting Sharpness to 0, turning off settings, experimenting with the Cleartype crap in Windows, etc.

In the end, the thing that has most improved the problem is actually setting Video Noise Reduction to ON, which I hadn't tried before. The white glow almost disappears, a HUGE improvement, but it's still there to a tiny extent.

Is there anything else I can do?
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post #21 of 38 Old 06-24-2011, 01:13 PM
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Can the sharpening issues be defeated for console/movie usage? I.e. can the sharpness be properly calibrated for those activities?
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post #22 of 38 Old 07-01-2011, 03:09 PM
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Funny found this thread with Google. My TV is the L42U30 but as you know it's essentially the same since my manual has this model on it as well. I have to say it's a spectacular TV for viewing movies or playing games.

However as a PC Monitor is sucks. I can get a 'decent' picture through the VGA but there are still small blurry spots and i'm not sure why. I have spent easily 10 hours trying to make this work with HDMI (tried every port, every settings, every option, every menu in nVidia control panel etc) and posted on about 5 forums asking for help. Seems like this TV just fails as a monitor which is really a big shame because it's a really nice display. Maybe Panasonic will release a firmware with updates for that but who knows.
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post #23 of 38 Old 11-16-2011, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmhart View Post

When I saw a local retailer had this set on sale starting today, I couldn't help myself and ran out to buy one...making sure of course there is no restocking fee for returns.

It turns out this otherwise excellent TV will have to go back. For watching TV and probably console gaming, the picture seemed excellent to me. Nice blacks, and in my limited time playing with it I didn't notice any backlight bleeding at all.

For PC use however, it fails the 4:4:4 test using a DVI>HDMI cable from my GTX 260 to the TV. I also found that even with the sharpness control turned all the way down to zero, there was still some 'vertical' ringing or edge enhancement that I couldn't turn off. All extra noise reduction, auto adjust features and so forth were all set to off. The only thing that made the ringing less noticeable was jacking up the contrast all the way to 100, which doesn't seem right to me. There was also some dynamic contrast adjustment going on that I couldn't find a way to turn off, but perhaps this is normal now for these sets with dynamic contrast ratios?

To top it off, the support rep I chatted with at Panasonic last week who assured me she would get back to me with the information about the 4:4:4 support never got back to me. Meh...

I guess I'll wait and see if the new LGs still properly handle 4:4:4 over HDMI, and maybe have improved black levels.

I've attached some not so great phone pictures of some text from this thread to show the ringing issue, and the Belle-Nuit chart showing the 4:4:4 failure--both as displayed on the TC-L32U3.

I'm bumping this thread because I plan to purchase this model Saturday. According to this thread (only 1 post), Panasonic TC-L32U3 also excellent PC monitor, the OP had to make a number of adjustments and was able to come away with impressive results. Did you adjust the settings the same way?

I'll be using it in our office for the PC (HDMI) and with the Xbox 360 (VGA), as well as cable TV via the PC or Xbox through Windows Media Center.
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post #24 of 38 Old 12-01-2011, 10:01 PM
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I just got my L32U3 today and I have the text halos. I tried every single setting mentioned here on avs and on reviews and while the problem can be minimized, it doesn't go away. This includes the post merlot linked to.

But...

I just entered the service menu (vol - on tv, info 3 times on remote), hit 1 twice to cycle to the color menu, and POOF the halos are completely gone. Hit 1 or 2 to switch menus and they return.

Now I don't know squat about service menus in the first place, so I'm not making any changes until I know exactly what to do to fix this, but hot damn it's good to know that SOMETHING in the settings is causing the issue. When I sit at this color menu, on Standard setting, this thing looks just like my old L32S1. It's awesome.

Can someone tell me what the heck is going on when I enter this menu and what to possibly change to make this fix permanent?
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post #25 of 38 Old 12-02-2011, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhjosh View Post

I just got my L32U3 today and I have the text halos. I tried every single setting mentioned here on avs and on reviews and while the problem can be minimized, it doesn't go away. This includes the post merlot linked to.

But...

I just entered the service menu (vol - on tv, info 3 times on remote), hit 1 twice to cycle to the color menu, and POOF the halos are completely gone. Hit 1 or 2 to switch menus and they return.

Now I don't know squat about service menus in the first place, so I'm not making any changes until I know exactly what to do to fix this, but hot damn it's good to know that SOMETHING in the settings is causing the issue. When I sit at this color menu, on Standard setting, this thing looks just like my old L32S1. It's awesome.

Can someone tell me what the heck is going on when I enter this menu and what to possibly change to make this fix permanent?

I exchanged mine for the Samsung LN32D550. It was a bit more expensive, but the text is perfect. The Panny is nice and hopefully you can fix the issue via the service menu; it would probably keep a lot of people like myself from returning it.
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post #26 of 38 Old 12-02-2011, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhjosh View Post

I just got my L32U3 today and I have the text halos. I tried every single setting mentioned here on avs and on reviews and while the problem can be minimized, it doesn't go away. This includes the post merlot linked to.

But...

I just entered the service menu (vol - on tv, info 3 times on remote), hit 1 twice to cycle to the color menu, and POOF the halos are completely gone. Hit 1 or 2 to switch menus and they return.

Now I don't know squat about service menus in the first place, so I'm not making any changes until I know exactly what to do to fix this, but hot damn it's good to know that SOMETHING in the settings is causing the issue. When I sit at this color menu, on Standard setting, this thing looks just like my old L32S1. It's awesome.

Can someone tell me what the heck is going on when I enter this menu and what to possibly change to make this fix permanent?

I hope you find out. The only reason my 32E3 hasn't been returned yet is because of all the rain. I want to like this TV, but the text issue is a dealbreaker and panasonic doesn't give a rats ass.
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post #27 of 38 Old 12-03-2011, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullet34 View Post

I hope you find out. The only reason my 32E3 hasn't been returned yet is because of all the rain. I want to like this TV, but the text issue is a dealbreaker and panasonic doesn't give a rats ass.

I don't think it's going to happen. It appears that this tv has some sort of minimum built in sharpness that you can never turn off. The option to disable it in the service menu is nonexistent.

Back it goes.
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post #28 of 38 Old 12-19-2011, 02:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhjosh View Post

I just got my L32U3 today and I have the text halos. I tried every single setting mentioned here on avs and on reviews and while the problem can be minimized, it doesn't go away. This includes the post merlot linked to.

But...

I just entered the service menu (vol - on tv, info 3 times on remote), hit 1 twice to cycle to the color menu, and POOF the halos are completely gone. Hit 1 or 2 to switch menus and they return.

Now I don't know squat about service menus in the first place, so I'm not making any changes until I know exactly what to do to fix this, but hot damn it's good to know that SOMETHING in the settings is causing the issue. When I sit at this color menu, on Standard setting, this thing looks just like my old L32S1. It's awesome.

Can someone tell me what the heck is going on when I enter this menu and what to possibly change to make this fix permanent?

Has anyone come up with a permanent solution to this? I have a buddy with this TV and he also has the sub sampling issue. I read that one user used HDMI 2-3 and set the text label to "Monitor" and it fixed it and it displayed RGB 4:4:4 properly. I can't confirm but I will when I get a chance.
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post #29 of 38 Old 12-19-2011, 03:39 AM
 
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All TVs have 4:4:4 capability because remember they are RGB display devices! Less the Quotron from Sharp!

Can the input electronics take the signal properly is the question! For the Panasonic U3 series I believe you have to use HDMI 2-3 and set the input text label to "monitor" for it to display RGB 4:4:4 properly! Setting the input text label to "monitor" for the PC HDMI input is key here... I have yet to test this but this is what I've heard.

Samsung work the same way using the input text label to adjust from 4:2:2 to 4:4:4

Have any of you checked it's EDID data via Monitor Asset Manager?
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post #30 of 38 Old 12-19-2011, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

All TVs have 4:4:4 capability because remember they are RGB display devices! Less the Quotron from Sharp!

Can the input electronics take the signal properly is the question! For the Panasonic U3 series I believe you have to use HDMI 2-3 and set the input text label to "monitor" for it to display RGB 4:4:4 properly! Setting the input text label to "monitor" for the PC HDMI input is key here... I have yet to test this but this is what I've heard.

Samsung work the same way using the input text label to adjust from 4:2:2 to 4:4:4

Have any of you checked it's EDID data via Monitor Asset Manager?

I tried all HDMI ports and all labels (including some I made up). 4:4:4 support isn't causing the halo problem, forced sharpness is. I messed with the EDID (used to have a westinghouse monitor that would look like **** without an EDID fix on nvidia cards) for about 6 hours. I do not believe this is an issue with EDID misread.
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