Sony Bravia KDL55HX800 vs. KDL55EX720 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 46 Old 03-28-2011, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm torn btwn purchasing one of these two sets. The specs seem virtually identical. Anyone have any input on which way I should go? Thanks in advance.
(I also posted this in the 3D Display forum, but thought it may get better traffic here)
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post #2 of 46 Old 03-28-2011, 02:30 PM
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With closeout prices on the HX800, I'd take a long, hard look at it before dropping extra coin on a 2011 model that hasn't been out very long.
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post #3 of 46 Old 03-28-2011, 02:37 PM
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What does that mean?
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post #4 of 46 Old 03-28-2011, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmccormack View Post

What does that mean?

I thought it was pretty clear, but it means I'd rather get a quality 2010 TV at a low closeout price instead of a "just introduced" 2011 TV without a proven track record. Since the 2011 Sony is most likely not being discounted yet, then you'll be paying the so-called "early adopter premium" just for the privilege of having one of the first 2011's that may or may not have any "bugs" worked out yet. And, since the "specs seem virtually identical," the 2010 seems like the better deal to me.
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post #5 of 46 Old 03-28-2011, 04:18 PM
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I looked at both of these TV's an opted for the HX800. As indicated above by BoilerJim I also thought that the HX800 was a better deal.
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post #6 of 46 Old 03-28-2011, 05:06 PM
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Judging from Sony's past track record the EX720 should be a good TV. I've decided that I am going to take the leap and take Sony's 60" offer for my defective SXRD set, hopefully the 720 will have better speakers that's about the only negative I've heard about the 2010 models.
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post #7 of 46 Old 03-28-2011, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpgcabby View Post

Judging from Sony's past track record the EX720 should be a good TV. I've decided that I am going to take the leap and take Sony's 60" offer for my defective SXRD set, hopefully the 720 will have better speakers that's about the only negative I've heard about the 2010 models.

Any LED set would have "below-average" speakers considering the size/depth of the unit. They would need space for more improvement. So I highly doubt any big improvement in sound quality from the 700/710 to 720.

My NX810 definitely had bad speakers... just plain bad quality. But the monolithic stand (bunchin stand with built in 2.1 speakers) are actually AMAZING and I'm glad I plunged onto taking it.

A good alternative for you is to connect it to your home theater or get a mini sound bar. Of course anybody can complain about it, but then it would defeat the purpose of the "thin" factor that many love dearly. (I could care less however...)
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post #8 of 46 Old 03-28-2011, 07:43 PM
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I have a projector that I hook up to my home theatre, this is going to be for my bedroom. The specs say 2.1 for sound and have 3 channels rated so it must have a little woofer. I'll probably hook it up to some PC speakers if it's really bad.
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post #9 of 46 Old 03-29-2011, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post

I thought it was pretty clear, but it means I'd rather get a quality 2010 TV at a low closeout price instead of a "just introduced" 2011 TV without a proven track record. Since the 2011 Sony is most likely not being discounted yet, then you'll be paying the so-called "early adopter premium" just for the privilege of having one of the first 2011's that may or may not have any "bugs" worked out yet. And, since the "specs seem virtually identical," the 2010 seems like the better deal to me.

but what if the 2011 model cost less?

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post #10 of 46 Old 03-29-2011, 06:17 PM
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WARNING:

Be careful, Sony is a bit misleading with the 2011 models.

The HX800 is 240hz. The EX720 is actually 120hz. The 240hz HX800 is actually a better TV than the EX720.

Also, I own a EX720, bought it thinking it was also 240hz as advertised, boy do I regret it. Samsung is still the way to go in my opinion.
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post #11 of 46 Old 03-29-2011, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DataDay View Post

WARNING:

Be careful, Sony is a bit misleading with the 2011 models.

The HX800 is 240hz. The EX720 is actually 120hz. The 240hz HX800 is actually a better TV than the EX720.

Also, I own a EX720, bought it thinking it was also 240hz as advertised, boy do I regret it. Samsung is still the way to go in my opinion.

This is something not worth fretting about.
Other companies "falsely advertise" refresh rate. In a sense, Sony advertises "MotionFlow XR [Refresh Rate]" indicating the usage of MotionFlow that allow the said refresh rate. Nothing wrong with that. However, "falsely advertise" is a rather strong accusation... and misleading as you've said is a more appropriate term. But even if it's misleading, it still shows the refresh rate the television is capable of doing. Native 120hz and perceived 240hz processing. It shouldn't make you go all whilly wanka over 120hz vs 240hz honestly.

Otherwise what makes Samsung still the way to go? They aren't any more honest than any other company. Enjoy your unit as you probably will not EVEN notice an improvement with a native 240hz set buddy
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post #12 of 46 Old 03-29-2011, 07:16 PM
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Hello,
Speaking of misleading practices. Samsung had to revamp their Marketing Campaign for their LED-LCD HDTV's in the UK due to the confusion caused by them calling them LED TV's. The UK has far more stringent guidelines when it comes to truth in Advertising.

As for the OP, I would definitely go with the HX800 over the 720 after having a chance to look at both. Have you had an opportunity to view both TV's? If not reticent about Plasmas, Panasonic's VT25 is going down in price as the 2011 Models are being rolled out and is a stellar TV.
Cheers.
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post #13 of 46 Old 03-30-2011, 12:31 AM
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Sony, i swear

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post #14 of 46 Old 03-30-2011, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Do-It-Yourself View Post

This is something not worth fretting about.
Other companies "falsely advertise" refresh rate. In a sense, Sony advertises "MotionFlow XR [Refresh Rate]" indicating the usage of MotionFlow that allow the said refresh rate. Nothing wrong with that. However, "falsely advertise" is a rather strong accusation... and misleading as you've said is a more appropriate term. But even if it's misleading, it still shows the refresh rate the television is capable of doing. Native 120hz and perceived 240hz processing. It shouldn't make you go all whilly wanka over 120hz vs 240hz honestly.

Otherwise what makes Samsung still the way to go? They aren't any more honest than any other company. Enjoy your unit as you probably will not EVEN notice an improvement with a native 240hz set buddy

I noticed you keep up with the usual rhetoric regarding 120hz. The OP thinks the specs are identical, and if you go off some websites they incorrectly list the EX720's specs. Most notably the refresh rate. Some people are on the market for a 240hz hdtv, regardless of what you think about refresh rates. Making sure you are not buying something you think is something else in regards to specs does matter and it is better the OP goes into it knowing that.

Look I am not going to pretend to be a "HDTV Pro", but when even Cnet is skeptical about 120hz 3D Tvs, regardless of their "gimmicky hz emulation", then I would pause to even consider what you say is "true".

There is a reason 240hz and 120hz exist, and if you continue to spout (regardless of what even others have said) there is no visual difference, and therefore no point, then Its hard to take you seriously. Not everyone can see a 3D image with this technology, and not everyone can see the difference in quality between the two. Maybe you are one of them.

Sony's previous motionflow, called motionflow pro was in reference to the actual hz. It seems by switching out the pro with XR is an intentional marketing ploy,between 2010 and 2011, as a means to lower the hz but keep the same perception as pro.

Also you are insinuating that i said "false advertising", with quotations and then say Its more misleading than false advertising.

Since you DO bring up false advertising, your own words in this thread, not mine, but when a TV is advertised as being 240hz, along with all the other true 240hz HDTVs (many times under a specific filtering system), and it is 120hz instead, it is false advertising and is not overly strong. YOU CANNOT LOGICALLY begin to dispute that. I didnt say it was entirely on Sony's end. Check out how Amazon sells the EX720 by the way. [Sony BRAVIA KDL40EX720 40-Inch 1080p 240 Hz 3D LED HDTV, Black]

Even http://www.televisioninfo.com/conten...amp;-Specs.htm Is listing the actual refresh rate at 240hz. No matter what you are saying this is false information, and quite frankly, it matters to some people.

Finally, I have yet to see a Samsung HDTV that incorrectly advertises or hints at a different refresh rate through gimmicky naming conventions (not to say they havent, but I personally havent seen it). In fact they had specifically said they will not do that regarding refresh rates (article from 2009/2010 I believe). It seems Sony fell in line with LG and others emulating hz rather than delivering true hz. Samsung isnt the Messiah for hdtvs by any means, but after seeing first hand the differences in image and build quality between the two, Samsung is clearly (pun intended) better.

The OP is asking about 3D tvs, and for a "3D" tv the hz do matter for stereoscopic viewing regardless of your opinion.
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post #15 of 46 Old 03-30-2011, 01:35 AM
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Sony only calls it "Motionflow™ XR 240" NOT "Motionflow™ XR 240hz" ......

Sony is dead.
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post #16 of 46 Old 03-30-2011, 01:46 AM
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Submit a correction to amazon, they had a Samsung TV that was 60hz listed as 120hz in the title, and I let em know it was wrong, and it was fixed the next day.

Its not like Sony themselves choose how to publish the specs on retailer's sites.

I guess Samsung is guilty of false advertisement too?

Here is what it said, as per my submission:
Quote:
Hello from Amazon.com,

Thank you for using the Catalog Update Form to send suggestions for

Samsung LN46D550 46-Inch 1080p 120Hz LCD HDTV (Black)
ASIN: B004N866T4

A little helpful e-mail to retailers wont hurt you and may help others.
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post #17 of 46 Old 03-30-2011, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbutters View Post

Submit a correction to amazon, they had a Samsung TV that was 60hz listed as 120hz in the title, and I let em know it was wrong, and it was fixed the next day.

Its not like Sony themselves choose how to publish the specs on retailer's sites.

I guess Samsung is guilty of false advertisement too?

Here is what it said, as per my submission:


A little helpful e-mail to retailers wont hurt you and may help others.

I am not sure if its the inability to read or just the assumption that I am blaming Sony for everything.

I hinted that A) Their 2011 terminology is misleading. (previous generations of motionflow actually did contain hz. Bravia Engine in BRAVIA TVs did use actual refresh rate. When tossing in XR for 2011, that didnt hold true and they were not quick nor interested in making sure that it was clear for consumers and CES goers._

and B) Other websites do advertise it as 240hz, which is false advertising. I did not state in this thread that Sony is falsely advertising the TV as 240hz, rather retailers and reviewers have it wrong. Either they received a bad spec sheet, or someone goofed and it spread.

I have already contacted Amazon for example, as well as Cnet and televisioninfo.com. They still continue to publish the actual refresh rate as being 240hz. It must be a matter of not really caring. Personally I do not want people to purchase a tv they think is something else when it is not. It is always discouraging when you find out the hard way. The natural consumer response is to feel deceived and their frustration becomes a cloud over the product they have purchased.

I am by no means trying to be mean about this, rather as helpful as possible. Some people here however seem to have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to the whole 120hz vs 240hz issue and wish to downplay the desire by anyone else who just wants a 240hz tv.
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post #18 of 46 Old 03-30-2011, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DataDay View Post

I noticed you keep up with the usual rhetoric regarding 120hz. The OP thinks the specs are identical, and if you go off some websites they incorrectly list the EX720's specs. Most notably the refresh rate. Some people are on the market for a 240hz hdtv, regardless of what you think about refresh rates. Making sure you are not buying something you think is something else in regards to specs does matter and it is better the OP goes into it knowing that.

Look I am not going to pretend to be a "HDTV Pro", but when even Cnet is skeptical about 120hz 3D Tvs, regardless of their "gimmicky hz emulation", then I would pause to even consider what you say is "true".

There is a reason 240hz and 120hz exist, and if you continue to spout (regardless of what even others have said) there is no visual difference, and therefore no point, then Its hard to take you seriously. Not everyone can see a 3D image with this technology, and not everyone can see the difference in quality between the two. Maybe you are one of them.

Sony's previous motionflow, called motionflow pro was in reference to the actual hz. It seems by switching out the pro with XR is an intentional marketing ploy,between 2010 and 2011, as a means to lower the hz but keep the same perception as pro.

Also you are insinuating that i said "false advertising", with quotations and then say Its more misleading than false advertising.

Since you DO bring up false advertising, your own words in this thread, not mine, but when a TV is advertised as being 240hz, along with all the other true 240hz HDTVs (many times under a specific filtering system), and it is 120hz instead, it is false advertising and is not overly strong. YOU CANNOT LOGICALLY begin to dispute that. I didnt say it was entirely on Sony's end. Check out how Amazon sells the EX720 by the way. [Sony BRAVIA KDL40EX720 40-Inch 1080p 240 Hz 3D LED HDTV, Black]

Even http://www.televisioninfo.com/conten...amp;-Specs.htm Is listing the actual refresh rate at 240hz. No matter what you are saying this is false information, and quite frankly, it matters to some people.

Finally, I have yet to see a Samsung HDTV that incorrectly advertises or hints at a different refresh rate through gimmicky naming conventions (not to say they havent, but I personally havent seen it). In fact they had specifically said they will not do that regarding refresh rates (article from 2009/2010 I believe). It seems Sony fell in line with LG and others emulating hz rather than delivering true hz. Samsung isnt the Messiah for hdtvs by any means, but after seeing first hand the differences in image and build quality between the two, Samsung is clearly (pun intended) better.

The OP is asking about 3D tvs, and for a "3D" tv the hz do matter for stereoscopic viewing regardless of your opinion.

I surely didn't mean it in that way. Nor did I mean to put "false advertising" in your own mouth, as it was for mine so to speak. You're just taking matters into hand and amplifying every need to satisfy your taste when it shouldn't really affect you. However, I do admit I do it sometimes.
Leaving more room for interpretation, I still understand your position in this... as in feeling 'cheated' or the likes.

But I believe your factor is "small" in my opinion, because I felt cheated out with my Samsung unit. Image quality is one of the best I'd agree, but build quality? Samsung is not made for build quality.

Guess how I got cheated out? Panel Lottery. I received a CMO MVA panel. It is the 'lowest' quality anyone could have got and I got it on my 55" B650. I paid for a Samsung television to only get a non-samsung panel. This is not a low end series either. So what gives?
Because of this, I suffered from not having "120hz blah blah instead of 240hz" but a horrible viewing angle, lower contrast, and slower response time. Samsung has done a lot of tricks to cheat consumers. They are no better, in fact, they are one of the worst.


Like I said, Sony is still honest in this. I guess I didn't make it clear enough. Sony advertises it under "MotionFlow". 240hz can be achieved when MotionFlow: Clear 1 and Clear 2 is activated with BFI.
However, they still list the EX720 as 120hz. (Go look it up yourself: http://sonystyle.ca/webapp/wcs/store...specifications)
Misleading, perhaps, but not false advertising as I did say above. The Sony HX929 was listed as MotionFlow XR 960... which you can't possibly believe to be native o_O
Otherwise, I would like to thank you DataDay because even I would have been mislead! Now I know and I hope you can still enjoy the set or get an exchange. Let there be peace
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post #19 of 46 Old 03-30-2011, 10:22 AM
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I think this one is pretty ease, the HX800 is the better set. 240Hz with Intelligent Dimming vs. 120Hz(?) Edge Lit
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post #20 of 46 Old 03-31-2011, 06:03 PM
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This is the decision I am facing now from the offer from Sony to replace the AS2000. I am not a videophile and haven't researched any new TV's since I purchased the AS2000.

I am not a gamer, but watch a ton of TV and Blu Rays (mostly Pixa w/ the kid). It has been pretty much my only entertainment since my kid was born.

3D is not that important to me yet, but if I can "future proof" it, good bonus. I am not a big fan of watching movies in 240hz, looks too "real" or "soap opera" like for me, so that is not a huge issue for me as well. When my AS2000 was working, I loved the picture, more so than all my friends and families newest and latest plasmas and LCD's. I just liked the natural look of the picture.


Weird that Sony offered the EX720 at $165 less than the HX800, both 55", even though the EX720 is a newer model? That alone is making me purchase the HX800.

I am leaning towards HX800
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post #21 of 46 Old 03-31-2011, 08:27 PM
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Has anyone tested the input lag on the EX720 while gaming? Debating on the 60 inch or 55 inch HX800 as a replacement for a faulty XBR2.
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post #22 of 46 Old 04-05-2011, 12:01 PM
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Directly from a debate on this TV from another thread: Cant post links since this is my first post.

That's what I'm trying to determine. Even if they chose to interpolate black frames instead of new frames from the source content, they typically still count the black frames in the total refresh rate.


Seems there's confusion across the board on this one. I just chatted with Sony direct and they confirmed 240Hz:

Ashley G: Welcome to Sony! My name is Ashley G and I will be your Sales Product Specialist today. How can I help you?

you: Hi Ashley! I work for a Sony Network Retailer.

you: There seems to be some confusion surrounding the new EX720. It's called "Motionflow XR 240" and yet on SonyStyle.com, the refresh is listed as only 120Hz. Cnet and many other sites have it listed as a 240Hz refresh. Can you confirm who's right?

Ashley G: The Ex720 is 240 hz refresh rate...
I have a feeling they updated the EX710 page to be the EX720 page and not all the specs got updated...
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post #23 of 46 Old 04-05-2011, 01:17 PM
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I don't know... some reviews/previews and official specs seem to be pretty clear about that. I mean, you don't just make up stuff like "120Hz + backlight scanning = XR240" out of the blue - this had to be mentioned by Sony at some point.

I'd say those reps just look at the marketing numbers, not entirely aware of the technical side of things as well - this happens quite often.

Also, yeah, inserting black frames still counts towards the refresh rate, but this set is not inserting black frames (well it could be, but I mean in addition to the already inserted frames), it just messes with the backlight - this doesn't have anything to do with frames themselves.
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post #24 of 46 Old 04-05-2011, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinfisch01 View Post

Directly from a debate on this TV from another thread: Cant post links since this is my first post.

That's what I'm trying to determine. Even if they chose to interpolate black frames instead of new frames from the source content, they typically still count the black frames in the total refresh rate.


Seems there's confusion across the board on this one. I just chatted with Sony direct and they confirmed 240Hz:

Ashley G: Welcome to Sony! My name is Ashley G and I will be your Sales Product Specialist today. How can I help you?

you: Hi Ashley! I work for a Sony Network Retailer.

you: There seems to be some confusion surrounding the new EX720. It's called "Motionflow XR 240" and yet on SonyStyle.com, the refresh is listed as only 120Hz. Cnet and many other sites have it listed as a 240Hz refresh. Can you confirm who's right?

Ashley G: The Ex720 is 240 hz refresh rate...
I have a feeling they updated the EX710 page to be the EX720 page and not all the specs got updated...

Wow, this further confuses things.....seems like there is still no definitive answer....
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post #25 of 46 Old 04-05-2011, 03:19 PM
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The ex720 DOES have a 120Hz panel. This was confirmed by the VP of customer relations, Philip Petescia, after he initially posted on the Facebook page "I Have a Defective Sony TV" that it was 240Hz. After discussing it with Sony engineers, he went back and made another post to show the the EX720 does have a 120Hz panel.

Now, whether the MotionFlow 240 can make the panel perform as if it were a 240Hz panel, that is debatable.
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post #26 of 46 Old 04-05-2011, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smies View Post

The ex720 DOES have a 120Hz panel. This was confirmed by the VP of customer relations, Philip Petescia, after he initially posted on the Facebook page "I Have a Defective Sony TV" that it was 240Hz. After discussing it with Sony engineers, he went back and made another post to show the the EX720 does have a 120Hz panel.

Now, whether the MotionFlow 240 can make the panel perform as if it were a 240Hz panel, that is debatable.

From what I know this information is correct! Thanks!!
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post #27 of 46 Old 04-07-2011, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input everyone. I ended up going with the HX800. Just got it yesterday in fact. Watched "127 Hours" on BD and was blown away. The specs I saw for the EX720 did say it was 240hz, I think it was Best Buy's website not sure. I was a little dissapointed that the set is only LAN ready and you need to buy a $80 Sony LAN usb in order to access a wireless network, but the picture quality is fantastic.
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post #28 of 46 Old 04-08-2011, 07:15 AM
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First off I do not agree with Sony's tactics in their new advertising, I have been selling Sony tvs for 15 years. Unfortunately they are following the same tactics as others at the detriment to the customer. The new EX720 models will take the 1st frame (frame 1) of the source and then show a black screen with no image (frame 2), then the tv processor will generate a new frame (frame 3) not caught on camera but one that would "fill" for the original first two frames. Then another black frame (frame 4). Thus for every 1 frame of the original picture the tv is generating 3 new ones, two black and one real picture. This is the same way 120hz pictures are created but without the black frames. So they can call it 240 but really it isn't.

Other companies like LG and Vizio have been using this "tactic" for the last two years and I guess since Sony is constantly losing market share they decided to join the party.

I guess on some small level consumers deserve the deceit since all they want to do is read the side of the box, believe what their idiot friend/brother/neighbor tells them to buy, or is generally too lazy to want to learn anything and use their own brain to come to a decision about what is best for them to buy.
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post #29 of 46 Old 04-08-2011, 08:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Amaury View Post

Thanks for the input everyone. I ended up going with the HX800. Just got it yesterday in fact. Watched "127 Hours" on BD and was blown away. The specs I saw for the EX720 did say it was 240hz, I think it was Best Buy's website not sure. I was a little dissapointed that the set is only LAN ready and you need to buy a $80 Sony LAN usb in order to access a wireless network, but the picture quality is fantastic.

you made the right choice. HX800 LED back-lit should be better than EX720, http://tv-compare.blogspot.com/2011/...l-55ex720.html
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post #30 of 46 Old 04-08-2011, 09:03 AM
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This is wrong... HX800 is not LED backlit. If it was, there would be no contention indeed, especially considering the price.
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