Official LG xxLK520 xxLK450 - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 2833 Old 07-12-2011, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by hamm20 View Post
For anyone interested in the 42LK520 and is local to a Fry's, I just purchased one for $469,
and i thought i got a great deal @ $560 .

chasing rattles ......

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post #362 of 2833 Old 07-13-2011, 07:28 PM
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Hey everyone, if anyone cares I am starting to do input lag tests for the LG 37LK450 with an IPS in it.

Here is a link to my post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post20692215

It was my first time to ever do it, so I might be missing something. The lag seems very high for an IPS but who knows!

Hope this helps,

Hippo
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post #363 of 2833 Old 07-13-2011, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Hippo08 View Post

Hey everyone, if anyone cares I am starting to do input lag tests for the LG 37LK450 with an IPS in it.

Here is a link to my post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post20692215

It was my first time to ever do it, so I might be missing something. The lag seems very high for an IPS but who knows!

Hope this helps,

Hippo

It's possible that the difference in resolution for your CRT causes clone mode to not be in sync. Panel type shouldn't matter, and the 32 inch VA panel I tested only lagged by 1-2 frames.
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post #364 of 2833 Old 07-13-2011, 07:47 PM
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I was definitely thinking about this because the monitor reso looks crazy. However, I did force 1920x1080 onto it, so I don't really know if its a difference in resolution? I could try different outputs on my video card, however the TV is going through HDMI and the CRT is going VGA > DVI adapter into a DVI.

I will go ahead and switch em up and see how it affects it. I will post back - please keep bringing suggestions as to why the MS might be so high! I would love to find that sweet spot/perfect setting for this set because it looks just gorgeous.

Something to note - even though it says it has somewhere between 3-5 frames of lag, I definitely DON'T notice it and I play very competitively at FPS and MMO games.

EDIT: Snapped a few shots a 1024x768 clone mode and it showed as having between 40ms(lowest) and 60ms(highest) lag time. Still kind of up there. Anything else I should try? I may do a picture reset to shove off anything I might have put into it that might affecting this. Any other hints are welcome!
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post #365 of 2833 Old 07-13-2011, 09:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippo08 View Post

EDIT: Snapped a few shots a 1024x768 clone mode and it showed as having between 40ms(lowest) and 60ms(highest) lag time. Still kind of up there. Anything else I should try? I may do a picture reset to shove off anything I might have put into it that might affecting this. Any other hints are welcome!

40ms to 60ms is about the same as what last years XXLD450's had for input lag. So this would seem to be about the best you will get.

Also, as someone else pointed out, an IPS panel has nothing to do with input lag. LCD panel latency is 2.4ms on these TVs and inconsequential.
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post #366 of 2833 Old 07-13-2011, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

40ms to 60ms is about the same as what last years XXLD450's had for input lag. So this would seem to be about the best you will get.

Also, as someone else pointed out, an IPS panel has nothing to do with input lag. LCD panel latency is 2.4ms on these TVs and inconsequential.

So is this panel considered good, bad, indifferent? I am only going to use it as a computer monitor. Would there be a better one out there for me? To be 100% honest, I really can't tell when playing games. So I think I am just going to end up keeping it because the picture is so great(to me). I will do a full picture reset tomorrow and post on the input lag forums. That way I couldn't have screwed anything up(well, I am sure I could still! haha).

Thank you for the input and can't wait to keep testing the TV,

Hippo
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post #367 of 2833 Old 07-14-2011, 02:19 AM
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Last year's LD450 had 1-2 frames of lag. With a frame being 16.6 ms, that puts it at about 17-34 ms input lag.

When I received my LK450, my tests indicated that the input lag was the same as the LD450.

Samsung PX2370 (left) vs LG 32LK450 (right)







LG was 1-2 frames slower.

If you're wondering about the Samsung as a reference monitor, DigitalVersus has it at 3 ms input lag, which is < 1 frame. Here's another test with the Samsung and Asus VH236. The Asus is used in gaming competitions (EVO and MLG) for its low to none input lag.

Asus VH236H (left) vs Samsung PX2370 (right)



Took about 30 shots of the Asus vs Samsung and all of them were on the same frame.
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post #368 of 2833 Old 07-14-2011, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Hippo08 View Post

So is this panel considered good, bad, indifferent? I am only going to use it as a computer monitor. Would there be a better one out there for me? To be 100% honest, I really can't tell when playing games. So I think I am just going to end up keeping it because the picture is so great(to me). I will do a full picture reset tomorrow and post on the input lag forums. That way I couldn't have screwed anything up(well, I am sure I could still! haha).

Thank you for the input and can't wait to keep testing the TV,

Hippo

I would not want game on anything higher than 33 ms, but the LK450 should be less than that. Not sure why your tests are giving you such high numbers.

For other PC usage, don't think it matters if you can't feel the lag.
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post #369 of 2833 Old 07-14-2011, 06:18 AM
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I know for sure that CRT is old as dirt. I picked it up off of a guy who was selling 5 really old computers too, they had Win 98 on them so that should give you an idea.

Would using old HDMI cables be the problem? They are from when I bought my LG 47LH40 2 years ago.

Also, what I think I should be seeing is, the Samsung is about 20ms faster than the LG. And the Asus/Samsung are about the same. So I should be seeing about 1-2 frames of lag at most.

I have a couple of other monitors laying around. Should I see if clone mode is just simply off? I think I have a DELL E248WFP(1920x1200 TN monitor) as well as a DELL E177FP(1280x1024).

I also did not try other inputs to see if they would differ. I guess what I could do is use the same CRT input and switch HDMI inputs for the TV to see if there is individual input lag on one of my HDMI ports. And repeat the same for the DVI and leave the HDMI as a control(don't really know how well this would work).
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post #370 of 2833 Old 07-14-2011, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippo08 View Post

Hey everyone, if anyone cares I am starting to do input lag tests for the LG 37LK450 with an IPS in it.

Here is a link to my post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post20692215

It was my first time to ever do it, so I might be missing something. The lag seems very high for an IPS but who knows!

Hope this helps,

Hippo

Just wanted to thank you for taking the time and effort to do this. Appreciate the contribution - and keep us updated on your progress.
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post #371 of 2833 Old 07-14-2011, 09:29 AM
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I picked up one of these tvs and they are sweet (47lk450). I actually wanted the bigger 55lk520 but couldn't afford it. Mine has no clouding, or edge bleed, or ghosting, and no dead pixels either. I have it hooked up to my ps3 and I don't notice any input lag when playing video games. It is a S-IPS panel. If you get one you won't regret it. Now to figure out how to calibrate the picture settings, blacks seem a little grey.
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post #372 of 2833 Old 07-14-2011, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by kazyn View Post

I picked up one of these tvs and they are sweet (47lk450). I actually wanted the bigger 55lk520 but couldn't afford it. Mine has no clouding, or edge bleed, or ghosting, and no dead pixels either. I have it hooked up to my ps3 and I don't notice any input lag when playing video games. It is a S-IPS panel. If you get one you won't regret it. Now to figure out how to calibrate the picture settings, blacks seem a little grey.

Yes they are sweet. I have the 47LD520. Blacks could be blacker (a limitation of the set) but if you get the AVS HD709 calibration disk, you can certainly get a very nice calibration. Using an ambient light behind the LG will improve the perception of black (especially at night) so with that, and a good cal, you'll be amazed and how sweeter it can get.
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post #373 of 2833 Old 07-14-2011, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippo08 View Post

I know for sure that CRT is old as dirt. I picked it up off of a guy who was selling 5 really old computers too, they had Win 98 on them so that should give you an idea.

Would using old HDMI cables be the problem? They are from when I bought my LG 47LH40 2 years ago.

Also, what I think I should be seeing is, the Samsung is about 20ms faster than the LG. And the Asus/Samsung are about the same. So I should be seeing about 1-2 frames of lag at most.

I have a couple of other monitors laying around. Should I see if clone mode is just simply off? I think I have a DELL E248WFP(1920x1200 TN monitor) as well as a DELL E177FP(1280x1024).

I also did not try other inputs to see if they would differ. I guess what I could do is use the same CRT input and switch HDMI inputs for the TV to see if there is individual input lag on one of my HDMI ports. And repeat the same for the DVI and leave the HDMI as a control(don't really know how well this would work).

I highly doubt your HDMI cable is the problem. My best guess would be that your clone mode is not in sync for whatever reason. Possibly because the difference in native resolutions between the sets.

Here is a response to me on a different forum about the subject.

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=...6&postcount=23

There's also an input lag article from PRAD (use a translator) about some pitfalls of using clone mode as a test. Honestly though, I don't need to know the precise to the millisecond so I'm fine with the results from my tests.
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post #374 of 2833 Old 07-14-2011, 07:57 PM
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Hey everyone,

I was so very intrigued by this problem that I did a lot to test. I reinstalled my OS and only loaded drivers. I did a factory reset on my TV and had no calibrations done to it. I did this so everything would be up-to-date and nothing else on my PC would be causing a problem.

I turned all extra settings to "Off" and put the TV into "Game" mode. I tried cloning the display at all sorts of different resolutions and the results are staggering.

At 1024x768, I see a 50-70ms response time.
At 1920x1080, I see a 40-60ms response time.

At 1024x768 auto-fill screen, I see a 10-30ms response time(This is when the two monitors looked MOST alike, which is why I think they are this low.)

Antipodes, thank you so much, I think you got to the root of my problem directly. So, back to the real question, what do I really say is the input lag of the TV? Should I invest in another CRT to do future testing? Maybe get that ASUS that has extremely low input lag to do my tests?

This was probably one of the more fun/interesting projects and I will be posting screens of this later to show what happened.

Also, as I was reinstalling(you got a lot of pure black screens), I saw a little spot of light bleed coming up from above where the LG symbol is. Is this considered a defect and I should take it back? Or is that going to be the norm on a set like this? To be honest, I didn't really notice it all that much, but would still like to know.

Thanks again guys!

EDIT: If anyone has a precise way of using CCC(version 11.6) with Windows 7 Professional 64-bit to clone displays more precisely, let me know! I have an HIS Radeon 5830 card.
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post #375 of 2833 Old 07-15-2011, 09:41 PM
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some people have too much time on their hands. no offence.

is there an hour meter on these ? 42lk520

so far, i am very happy with mine. perfect size for my needs.

chasing rattles ......

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post #376 of 2833 Old 07-16-2011, 12:29 AM
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I haven't looked at TVs for the past couple years so I'm curious, why does everyone love a relatively entry-level CCFL backlit LCD? Is it because it's has good picture for the price, and features like USB video playback?
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post #377 of 2833 Old 07-16-2011, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by versabox View Post

I haven't looked at TVs for the past couple years so I'm curious, why does everyone love a relatively entry-level CCFL backlit LCD? Is it because it's has good picture for the price, and features like USB video playback?

thats what it was for me. i just use it to watch cable. utmost PQ not needed here.

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post #378 of 2833 Old 07-16-2011, 06:54 AM
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Also because of all the problems with edge lit LEDs too! So if you want to avoid those problems the next step is the full array LED panel and they get to be quite expensive. Best bang for your dollar is still CCFL LCDs if you want an LCD.

I'll be returning my Samy 6000 because of all the problems, then buy the 55LK520 and put $400 back in my pocket.

Also unlike the previous post, I don't think the PQ is any better with LEDs, just brighter. If Samy still made the 55" in a CCFL I would of never tried the edge lit LED. Hope that helps.
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post #379 of 2833 Old 07-16-2011, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by versabox View Post

I haven't looked at TVs for the past couple years so I'm curious, why does everyone love a relatively entry-level CCFL backlit LCD? Is it because it's has good picture for the price, and features like USB video playback?

I bought my 47LD520 because the price was good, it fit our viewing environment quite nicely, the options available for calibrating are more extensive than other brands in the same class, the pq is amazing (once properly calibrated), nice set of options for the price, matte screen, excellent off-axis viewing (S-IPS panel), and it handles 1080p/24 blu-rays beautifully. Oh, and our HDTV viewing is OTA only and where we live, the pq is just fantastic and quite often better than the neighbor's cable.
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post #380 of 2833 Old 07-16-2011, 08:30 PM
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UPDATE

i used a headphone to rca, cable to get stereo line out. it works. kills the tv speakers.

chasing rattles ......

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post #381 of 2833 Old 07-17-2011, 11:36 AM
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Also because of all the problems with edge lit LEDs too! So if you want to avoid those problems the next step is the full array LED panel and they get to be quite expensive. Best bang for your dollar is still CCFL LCDs if you want an LCD.

I'll be returning my Samy 6000 because of all the problems, then buy the 55LK520 and put $400 back in my pocket.

Also unlike the previous post, I don't think the PQ is any better with LEDs, just brighter. If Samy still made the 55" in a CCFL I would of never tried the edge lit LED. Hope that helps.

This nailed it right on button, I bought a philips 55 led, ended up taking because of all the problems, the big one was the clouding in the four corners of the tv. Then I bought a 47lk450, and its a far superior tv. In picture quality and everything pretty much.
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post #382 of 2833 Old 07-17-2011, 12:41 PM
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Just got the 47LK520. Anyone else notice a loud buzz coming from the TV? Heard it while watching a movie last night and upon investigating, found out it is the loudest from the center grills at the top back of the TV. When you first turn on the TV, there is a soft electrical hum... which dont bother me... but a second or two later, the loud buzz kicks in.

Can all you other 47LK520 owners verify if this is normal? Best way to verify is to put your ears near the top center grills and then turn on the TV. After the initial hum (I assume all electrical equipment will make some noise), does a loud buzz kick in a second or two later?


Thanks.
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post #383 of 2833 Old 07-17-2011, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecliptic113 View Post

Just got the 47LK520. Anyone else notice a loud buzz coming from the TV? Heard it while watching a movie last night and upon investigating, found out it is the loudest from the center grills at the top back of the TV. When you first turn on the TV, there is a soft electrical hum... which dont bother me... but a second or two later, the loud buzz kicks in.

Can all you other 47LK520 owners verify if this is normal? Best way to verify is to put your ears near the top center grills and then turn on the TV. After the initial hum (I assume all electrical equipment will make some noise), does a loud buzz kick in a second or two later?


Thanks.

A loud buzz coming from any tv can not be a good thing. I've had the 47LD520 since January and it's as quiet as a door mouse no matter how long it's been on.
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post #384 of 2833 Old 07-17-2011, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

A loud buzz coming from any tv can not be a good thing. I've had the 47LD520 since January and it's as quiet as a door mouse no matter how long it's been on.

Well, maybe loud is an overstatement... but its definately audible on the couch 8 ft away during silent scenes in movies. It seems to get quiet if I turn the backlight all the way to 100... turning it down increases the buzz.
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post #385 of 2833 Old 07-17-2011, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecliptic113 View Post

Well, maybe loud is an overstatement... but its definately audible on the couch 8 ft away during silent scenes in movies. It seems to get quiet if I turn the backlight all the way to 100... turning it down increases the buzz.

Backlight set to 100 is way too high, IMO. I have mine set at around 55. We are about the same distance away, maybe 10 feet, and have never noticed a buzzing even when I was playing around during my calibration phase. Do you hear the buzz with the same settings when watching something other than a movie?
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post #386 of 2833 Old 07-17-2011, 04:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecliptic113 View Post

Well, maybe loud is an overstatement... but its definately audible on the couch 8 ft away during silent scenes in movies. It seems to get quiet if I turn the backlight all the way to 100... turning it down increases the buzz.

The 2010 LG xxLD450 models seemed to have this issue to for some owners. The buzzing is not normal and caused by components in the back light inverter circuit that are out of spec or improperly mounted or installed. Lat year it seemed certain batches of production had this problem. Running the back light at 100 to eliminate this problem will shorten the life of your TV and also not give you a decent black level for picture quality or calibration.

I would take it back and check out another right in the store to make sure you get a quiet one.
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post #387 of 2833 Old 07-17-2011, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

The 2010 LG xxLD450 models seemed to have this issue to for some owners. The buzzing is not normal and caused by components in the back light inverter circuit that are out of spec or improperly mounted or installed. Lat year it seemed certain batches of production had this problem. Running the back light at 100 to eliminate this problem will shorten the life of your TV and also not give you a decent black level for picture quality or calibration.

I would take it back and check out another right in the store to make sure you get a quiet one.

Grrrr thats not good news. Mine has a production date of June 2011. Most likely all the ones at the store (I got it at Fry's) would be from the same batch so they may all have this issue. The store has too much background noise to test for a quiet set.

Can anyone with a 47LK520 please do the listen test with your ears near the top center grills when you first turn on the TV to see if you hear a buzz kick in 1 to 2 sec after turning it on? Best to change the TV to an input with no signal so there is no audio coming out. The room have to be quiet to really hear it. I'm hoping that this is normal cause it will be a real pain to have to lug the TV back to the store.
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post #388 of 2833 Old 07-17-2011, 08:21 PM
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Recently got a 42LK450 and have been wanting to use it as a computer monitor and I've hooked it up as so via VGB cable. However I have been having a hell of a time getting text to look right and it's just seeming impossible. I've done the magnifying test and have confirmed the <<<< shaped pixels so it's an S-IPS panel For some reason the only aspect ratio options I can select while over RGB are 16:9 or 4:3, and I can't alter any sharpness settings on any mode whether it is expert or standard. If I flick it over to TV I can change the sharpness as I please. Would using an HDMI cable solve any of these problems? If not how can I make my text look great with what I have?

I'm using a ATI HD6850 with Catalyst 11.6. I can't find any option in CCC about any 4:4:4 settings either.

I'm at a bit of a loss.

Thank you.

Edit: Went down to the dollar store and purchased a cheap HDMI cable and it has made the text so much better and the other things I mentioned have been resolved too.
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post #389 of 2833 Old 07-18-2011, 01:09 AM
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Managed to snag the 47LK520 at my Best Buy this morning, 677 tax in. I'll probably post again once I get it out of the box and mess around with it.

I haven't checked the panel itself yet, but my box's serial number had the "Y" in the fourth position.

OMG! How did you manage to get the thing for so low?! Is that USDolalrs!?

Anyway, guys,

How are these LK520s stacking up against the Samsungs D630s?

I am choosing between 47LK520 and the LN46D630

The only difference I know is that Samsung in their D630s have a new version of Auto Motion Plus called Clear Motion Rate? Should I even consider that as a feature against LG?

I asked in the other thread and I got one response voting for the LG but DIDN'T say why he voted for the LG over Sammy's LN46D630.

Inputs would be much appreciated!
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post #390 of 2833 Old 07-18-2011, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecliptic113 View Post

Can anyone with a 47LK520 please do the listen test with your ears near the top center grills when you first turn on the TV to see if you hear a buzz kick in 1 to 2 sec after turning it on? Best to change the TV to an input with no signal so there is no audio coming out. The room have to be quiet to really hear it. I'm hoping that this is normal cause it will be a real pain to have to lug the TV back to the store.

The TV I used before replacing it with the 47LK520 was a Samsung LNT3253H. It had a buzz similar to what you're describing, and as Phase said, it was an electrical component that had to be replaced. I put it in for repair under warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubers View Post

OMG! How did you manage to get the thing for so low?! Is that USDolalrs!?

Anyway, guys,

How are these LK520s stacking up against the Samsungs D630s?

I am choosing between 47LK520 and the LN46D630

The only difference I know is that Samsung in their D630s have a new version of Auto Motion Plus called Clear Motion Rate? Should I even consider that as a feature against LG?

I asked in the other thread and I got one response voting for the LG but DIDN'T say why he voted for the LG over Sammy's LN46D630.

Inputs would be much appreciated!

The price is in CDN, but it was a door crasher price ($599 + tx) for a new Best Buy that had a Grand Opening event.

I can't comment on the D630, but I can tell you that the 47LK520 is definitely worth more consideration. I made some minor adjustments and even without a full calibration the PQ is great. Awesome playing PS3 on as well. I love the set so far.

I do have a very slight flashlighting/backlight bleed problem at the bottom of my screen, but I'm going to do an exchange this week (my OCD is too bad to just ignore it ). I also wish it had RCA/stereo out, but eh. I worked around it.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the LG. But like I said, I can't comment on the Samsung, so I might be a little biased.

I have never failed. I just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
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