Official LG xxLK520 xxLK450 - Page 35 - AVS Forum
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post #1021 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 04:28 AM
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I can finally confirm my 32LK450 with an Y in product code is S-IPS panel. Did a loupe test with a binoculars, I can't see pixel matrix clearly enough but it does look like chevron shape(70% and doesn't look like VA's pixel matrix in anyway ), black-level is still a huge disappointment though but I haven't properly calibrated it yet.
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post #1022 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 05:52 AM
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Hi all,

I am returning my low-tier awful 120 Hz LED-lit set today (its Insignia, very poor quality unless you are looking at still, bright images..)

Anyways, I am torn between the LG LK450 and LK520 - I mostly game on my LCD (xbox) but I would like it to handle Blu-Rays, streaming, OTA and eventually cable sports well.

Does the 520 sport significant input lag for gamers, especially FPS? Would an HD football game look awful on the 450? If the lag difference is negligible, I will go with the 520 but if I will not enjoy gaming on it, then the 450 is for me.

Any thoughts? I am coming from a 60 Hz Toshiba LCD from ~4-5 years ago, gaming was great on it, and PQ was good too. Did not notice anything bad watching football but it was a 32' 720p set, the jump to 42' 1080p makes things much more noticeable..
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post #1023 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 06:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djams View Post

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that gamma

The end result couldn't be much better in any regard.

That's what I thought. I ditched (sold) my i1 D2. I want a C6. I think it might be nicer than the D3. But then there is the $$$. Are there any discounts available?
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post #1024 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 06:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exavion View Post

Hi all,

I am returning my low-tier awful 120 Hz LED-lit set today (its Insignia, very poor quality unless you are looking at still, bright images..)

Anyways, I am torn between the LG LK450 and LK520 - I mostly game on my LCD (xbox) but I would like it to handle Blu-Rays, streaming, OTA and eventually cable sports well.

Does the 520 sport significant input lag for gamers, especially FPS? Would an HD football game look awful on the 450? If the lag difference is negligible, I will go with the 520 but if I will not enjoy gaming on it, then the 450 is for me.
.

Use the Search Thread option on the TOP RIGHT of the thread page. Search for "Input Lag" . Several owners have posted. The LK520 being 120 HZ has more lag ( around 65ms to 87ms and twice what the LK450 has) , but some owners say they don't notice it and a "Game node is available.

I wouldn't say football would look terrible on the LK450, but contrast ratio and getting an S-IPS panel are perhaps more important. What size LK are you looking at? 42"?
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post #1025 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koolG6 View Post

My parents just picked up an 42" lk450 and the product code is ub.cccdlh...take it it's not an ips panel???

VA panel, not IPS
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post #1026 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djams View Post

Thanks. So how do you like the picture once calibrated?

Yes, though black levels are nothing like that on my Samsung D550. Color accuracy is ideal and 1080/24p is handled perfectly.
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post #1027 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

I wouldn't say football would look terrible on the LK450, but contrast ratio and getting an S-IPS panel are perhaps more important. What size LK are you looking at? 42"?

Right - I am looking at 42' and I think I read most if not all people with the 42' got an IPS panel. It does sound like the 120Hz would not benefit me with the 520 (if I really cared about input lag with gaming and football equally, I would look at Plasmas, but I usually spend time playing online games with the xbox more than anything else.)

There is only about a $70 difference between the two models, and if the lag is only within 20ms difference, I might not notice anyway and take the 520 as future investment. I was just curious if anyone had the 520 or both and noticed the lag as an issue.
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post #1028 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

That's what I thought. I ditched (sold) my i1 D2. I want a C6. I think it might be nicer than the D3. But then there is the $$$. Are there any discounts available?

I think djams was asking why you felt the gamma was ok.

Take a look a my gamma.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post21326907
I choose 2.3 as my taget (which is a bit to dark for my room) and after adjusting gray scale so Y was as close to Target Y and RGB was even at 100, gamma was so flat you could hardly see the white line for the yellow target line.

You need to do more with the 10 point than just even out the RGB. If your Y reading is bigger than the Target Y (set when you do the first reading at 100 IRE) you need to lower controls keeping RGB even till your Y is as close to Target Y and if your Y is less that target raise them till even and Target is the same. Sorry if you already knew this and just didn't spend enough time to get it there.. I did not know this at first and had a gamma that looked like a saw blade.
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post #1029 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 07:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

I think djams was asking why you felt the gamma was ok.

Sorry if you already knew this and just didn't spend enough time to get it there.. I did not know this at first and had a gamma that looked like a saw blade.

LOL vwvwvwvwv

Yes, we've all been there. And as you found, a very flat gamma can be attained with these TV. Pretty amazing for the price range I think. Yeah, black level could be better, but viewing within 15 degrees or so of center with some bias lighting in the room at night really looks pretty good for daily view TV.
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post #1030 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 09:23 AM
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I took this image of a 37lk450 at the local store. Will bring a pocket microscope next time. But it should be an IPS panel, right?

I heard someone mentioning a yellow tint, is that a problem with this set?

How does the 42" IPS version fare with input lag compared to the 32" IPS version?
LL
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post #1031 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 09:25 AM
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Been using my 47lk520 for about a week, mostly ps3 gaming but blurays too. It's got the chevron pixels, I checked by looking thru binoculars backwards. Games on this screen look great once I got it tweaked how I like it, but movies just don't have that eyepopping colour like the Samsung LN46d630 I had before this one. Although I watched Avatar on the Samsung (it looked incredible), and Ironman2 on this LG (it looked ok, nothing special), could be an unfair comparison? Maybe it's the calibration state it's in, I'm going to try the AVS dvd on it today.
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post #1032 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikergofast View Post

Been using my 47lk520 for about a week, mostly ps3 gaming but blurays too. It's got the chevron pixels, I checked by looking thru binoculars backwards. Games on this screen look great once I got it tweaked how I like it, but movies just don't have that eyepopping colour like the Samsung LN46d630 I had before this one. Although I watched Avatar on the Samsung (it looked incredible), and Ironman2 on this LG (it looked ok, nothing special), could be an unfair comparison? Maybe it's the calibration state it's in, I'm going to try the AVS dvd on it today.

What prompted you to make the switch to this set from the Samsung?
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post #1033 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grahut View Post

I took this image of a 37lk450 at the local store. Will bring a pocket microscope next time. But it should be an IPS panel, right?

I heard someone mentioning a yellow tint, is that a problem with this set?

How does the 42" IPS version fare with input lag compared to the 32" IPS version?

The "Y" in the product code would indicate an S-IPS but the region code, ZH, is not for the U.S. market I believe so there's no telling for sure on that one. To be sure, you'd have to do what I call the loupe test (a magnifying lens to check the pixel pattern).
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post #1034 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikergofast View Post

Been using my 47lk520 for about a week, mostly ps3 gaming but blurays too. It's got the chevron pixels, I checked by looking thru binoculars backwards. Games on this screen look great once I got it tweaked how I like it, but movies just don't have that eyepopping colour like the Samsung LN46d630 I had before this one. Although I watched Avatar on the Samsung (it looked incredible), and Ironman2 on this LG (it looked ok, nothing special), could be an unfair comparison? Maybe it's the calibration state it's in, I'm going to try the AVS dvd on it today.

Both Avatar (the Special Edition Blu-ray) and both Ironman's looked fantastic on my 47LD520 (last year's model) which is calibrated. Make sure your basics (contrast, brightness, sharpness) are dead on with the AVS HD709 disk and then work on the colors (CMS). You should see a difference.
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post #1035 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 10:45 AM
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Do display settings carry over between inputs? I am purchasing the 520 model and already have the AVS disc ready to play in Blu Ray, but my Insignia keeps any custom settings attached to each input (meaning I have to write down every setting and apply them manually to each other input, like xbox etc) I wonder if the LGs do this too?

Also, went to Best Buy during lunch and they had the 520 and 450 side by side. Even with the 520 having a Low TruMotion set, I noticed almost no visible difference in input lag from whatever signal they were getting (probably coax cable). I set it to Off and still noticed nothing so I think I will get the 520 - $70 is worth having the 120Hz junk around for football and CGI movies.

On another note, these TVs seemed to be getting signal a split second quicker than the rest of the TVs in the vicinity (other brands, etc) - this may be due to all the others having processing on or different input configurations - but it made me happy to see that.
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post #1036 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

I think djams was asking why you felt the gamma was ok.

Take a look a my gamma.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post21326907
I choose 2.3 as my taget (which is a bit to dark for my room) and after adjusting gray scale so Y was as close to Target Y and RGB was even at 100, gamma was so flat you could hardly see the white line for the yellow target line.

You need to do more with the 10 point than just even out the RGB. If your Y reading is bigger than the Target Y (set when you do the first reading at 100 IRE) you need to lower controls keeping RGB even till your Y is as close to Target Y and if your Y is less that target raise them till even and Target is the same. Sorry if you already knew this and just didn't spend enough time to get it there.. I did not know this at first and had a gamma that looked like a saw blade.

What was your overall workflow for calibrating this TV (what steps did you take from start to finish and in what order)? What were your final settings?
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post #1037 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 01:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exavion View Post

Do display settings carry over between inputs?

YES , they do. There should be an "Apply To All Inputs" entry right after the IREs in the Expert Control section of both Expert 1 and Expert 2 ISF settings. However, if you use any of the presets [Standard, Cinema, Sports, etc] for some reason, they do not have the option to apply to another input.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Exavion View Post

I am purchasing the 520 model and already have the AVS disc ready .

Very good! Try to keep your back light in the 40's or lower if you can for best black level. It will depend on your ambient room lighting. . . less is better but I don't recommend watching an LCD TV in an all dark room. Use of a bias light really helps!
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post #1038 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

What was your overall workflow for calibrating this TV (what steps did you take from start to finish and in what order)? What were your final settings?

ISF 1
Turn off all extra processing
select Rec 709 and gamma 2.2 color temp warm
using the AVS disk from spectracals site set Brightness contrast and sharpness, turned on the TV Blue filter and displayed the flashing color pattern and adjusted color and tint.
In CalMan follow Standard Workflow.
I set backlight at about 40 for the cal but in the end it is at 85 in my kitchen
Run the precal check of Color temp, FL output gamma and Gray scale.

Calman was set to a HD Rec709 and a Gamma Target of 2.3 but I will be redoing it with 2.2 for my environment.

Then set Gray scale.
Choose 2 point
Display 100 IRE and Take reading
Display 80 IRE and adjust RGB to 100% even
Dispaly 30 IRE and adjust RGB to 100% even
Repeat 80/30

Choose 10 point
display 100 IRE and read FL in the other scale cmd/nit or something.
Choose 100 IRE on the TV and set luminance to your above light output
(I think this is just informational, shows up in the menu for each IRE.. what Y should be)
Then I ran the complete scale
Don't recall if I started at 100 or 10 but for each IRE
I adjusted RGB so there were at 100% (same as each other) and the calculated Y reading was as close to equal to the Target Y provided by CalMan for that IRE.
Did that for all IRE and had a perfect gray scale and prefect gamma.

As to the luminance setting above.. since gamma on tv was set to 2.2 the numbers it displayed were different than what CalMan displayed since my CalMAn target was 2.3 I think that Luminance setting is just incase the software does not provide the target.

Then I read the gamut using 75% patters as prompted by CalMan.
I do not know if I did anything correct after this.. but here is what I did.
For each of the primary colors I used the CMS color adjustments to get the Luminance differences as close to 0 as possible. Then for the secondary used the tint to get the delta H as low as possible.

Done.

I have not recorded the settings yet. Will do that when I fix the gamma since I will have to transfer everything to the other ISF preset (Note the CMS settings do not transfer, just the gray scale and gamma).
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post #1039 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 01:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

ISF 1

I have not recorded the settings yet. Will do that when I fix the gamma since I will have to transfer everything to the other ISF preset (Note the CMS settings do not transfer, just the gray scale and gamma).

You don't really have to transfer the settings from Expert 1 to Expert 2 unless you want to. You can just make your new 2.2 gamma cal in Expert 2.
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post #1040 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

You don't really have to transfer the settings from Expert 1 to Expert 2 unless you want to. You can just make your new 2.2 gamma cal in Expert 2.

What I meant was all the other settings.. contrast brightness.. CMS.. I will document all of them and put them in a spread sheet to save them and post them if you like.
Yes I know I can save them in CalMan but just didn't get to that. ..
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post #1041 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exavion View Post

Do display settings carry over between inputs? I am purchasing the 520 model and already have the AVS disc ready to play in Blu Ray, but my Insignia keeps any custom settings attached to each input (meaning I have to write down every setting and apply them manually to each other input, like xbox etc) I wonder if the LGs do this too?

I'm understanding your question two ways so I'll answer both Once you calibrate your set with a BD player (set to defaults so there are no enhancements or video processing going on), the calibration should be good for all inputs (HDMI, OTA, etc) depending on source. I use one calibration setting for all of my inputs on my LD520 (with maybe a minor tweak or two).

If memory serves me right, you can input your settings on one input and then Apply To All and it will be carried forward to all of your inputs. But, each input can have it's own, separate calibration setting tweaked to your liking if you want. In addition to modifying the presets (which will say Preset User or something like that once you modify the default setting) you can have two, separate Expert calibration setting per input (Expert1 and Expert2).

I made a simple Word doc that I could just plug in the settings to keep track of them and whether they are in Expert1 or Expert2 for a given setting. It got confusing for me when I first stated the calibration odyssey remembering what I had tweaked and where so I just reset everything, wrote down what the preset defaults were and started over, taking careful notes.
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post #1042 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 01:45 PM
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Damn! You guys are either too quick for me or I just type to damn slow (probably the case)
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post #1043 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 01:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Yes, though black levels are nothing like that on my Samsung D550. Color accuracy is ideal and 1080/24p is handled perfectly.

Do you still have the Samsung D550 and are you keeping it? Just curious which you prefer. The Samsung has a glossier screen if memory serves, does it not?

Also, which has easier or more precise calibration controls?
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post #1044 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Do you still have the Samsung D550 and are you keeping it? Just curious which you prefer. The Samsung has a glossier screen if memory serves, does it not?

Also, which has easier or more precise calibration controls?

In terms of color accuracy (greyscale & color gamut) and gamma, the LG is perfect while the Samsung is a bit of a disappointment. The grayscale on the Samsung has visible errors (especially down low) and the gamma tracking is way off/very nonlinear. The color gamut on the Samsung is ok but far better on the LG (nearly perfect to perfect on the LG, still tweaking settings ATM). The viewing angle on my S-IPS panel is ideal for an LCD and the only flaw is mediocre black levels in dark scenes, dark areas of brighter scenes, and with black bars for movies and 4:3 TV programming. In that last respect, the Samsung's black levels are stellar for a less than $500 TV (LN32D550). Overall though, the 37LK450 has better PQ thanks to perfect color/gamma and a wider viewing angle and has 5.5 more inches of screen real estate.

The LG also has much more comprehensive picture controls including a 2D CMS and 10-pt white balance/gamma. This Samsung doesn't include the 10-pt adjustment nor the 3D CMS found on 6 series and higher Samsungs. For these reasons, I'm not keeping the Samsung.
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post #1045 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 04:48 PM
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besides getting a home theater setup, what setting u guys use for sound?
i have clear voice on level 3.
with bass 70 and treble 82.

anything i can do to improve?
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post #1046 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 05:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by skyline007 View Post

besides getting a home theater setup, what setting u guys use for sound?
i have clear voice on level 3.
with bass 70 and treble 82.

anything i can do to improve?

It kind of depends on the size of the model you have. Speakers are a bit larger in the larger screen sizes. But generally I use mainly Music or Sport when using the internal speakers. I have Auto Volume On, Clear Voice 5, Treble 75, Bass 56. I use Sport for times I want clearer dialog - - - Auto Volume On, Clear Voice 5, Treble 83, Bass 44. It seems each sound mode has it's own built in basic tonal characteristics. My TV is 42" model and it is a daily viewer about 12 feet away.

The sound modes are not like the video settings, so play with them till you get a few that workd for each type of programs you watch.
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post #1047 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 05:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

The LG also has much more comprehensive picture controls including a 2D CMS and 10-pt white balance/gamma. This Samsung doesn't include the 10-pt adjustment nor the 3D CMS found on 6 series and higher Samsungs. For these reasons, I'm not keeping the Samsung.

I agree. I have not found any low or mid priced TVs with the adjusts these LGs have. I hope they continue providing TVs with these same set of 10 point settings. It amazed me that they offered these things even on a 32 TV.

Yes, the black level could be a bit better, but for daytime viewing it seems fine for us, and at night with soft ambient lighting it works. And as you've noted, color accuracy and gamma are top notch.
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post #1048 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 05:28 PM
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Thanks Phase700B.

Can anyone recommend a good receiver thats affordable?
Want one that can upscale cable programming from 480i to 1080p and do it well.
It seems more cost effective to get a receiver than to subscribe to HD programming from the cable provider.
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post #1049 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exavion View Post

What prompted you to make the switch to this set from the Samsung?

Prior to the Samsung, I tried the 42LK520 which had a great picture, both movies and games. But I wanted a bigger screen. The Samsung had a faint band of high brightness across the screen, right in the middle, about 1.5 inch wide. Once I saw it there in dark scenes, I couldn't live with it. It was likely just that unit, but I could never get ps3 games looking as good as on the 42"LG. Plus I knew the LGs were ISF cal ready.
Have you used the Samsung's before?

I'm very new to all this, but it's helpful to read everyone's tips, I'm afraid I wouldn't know a 'bad' tv from a 'good' one. (watching "Traffic" on it now, what a terrrible movie to test settings. would Avatar look as good on this LG as it did on the Samsung?)
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post #1050 of 2833 Old 12-12-2011, 05:52 PM
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Thanks Phase700B.

Can anyone recommend a good receiver thats affordable?
Want one that can upscale cable programming from 480i to 1080p and do it well.
It seems more cost effective to get a receiver than to subscribe to HD programming from the cable provider.

You will be disappointed in attempting to upscale an SD picture (480i, 4x3) to a HD picture (1080p, 16x9 ).
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