Returning Sharp Aquos AGAIN (Extreme Flashlighting) IMG's Included - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 05-01-2011, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey there guys.
I recently just sold my Panasonic TH-42PZ77U to a friend because I was due for an upgrade. I wanted to go for something that wasn't a plasma this time around as there's also a Panasonic G10 in the basement.

After looking at a lot of the LED TV reviews out there I bought the Sharp Aquos 52LE820UN. I had to return that one to Best Buy as the touch panel was straight up broken and there was a minor screen defect (A sort of permanent screen tear) in the top left of the screen.

When I went back to Best Buy I exchanged up to the Sharp Aquos 52LE925UN. I thought this would be the last trip, and I hoped it would be as the 925 was considerably more heavy than the 820.

I was pleased when the touch panel worked and there wasn't any sort of screen defect. I'm obviously aware of edge lit LED Tv's having a sort of glow coming off of the edges, and I'm perfectly fine with that.. But one I saw the extreme flashlighting effect show up I was peeved.

Take a look at these pictures and let me know if they seem normal or not? After about 30 minutes the effect is at full force and is a definite distraction for me.. I realize some people may not be annoyed by this effect.. but for someone like me once I see it I'm going to be bothered by it for all time

I've posted some pics below so that you guys can take a look. Let me know if you think this would distract you or not?

I know I'm going to exchange this set and get something else.. I'm leaning towards the Panasonic TC-P50VT25.. reviews have been stellar and I've always been happy with the Panasonic Plasma. Any other thoughts on what I should exchange for? If there's a better LED or LCD TV out there that you guys think I should get I'm open for suggestions as it's going to take Best Buy a week to get the VT25's back in stock.

Heres when the screen fades to black during viewing a movie



Fade to black with flashlighting highlighted


Another example of the Flashlighting on Sharp Aquos 52LE925UN


Example above Highlighted


While watching a film. It seems subtle.. but when you notice it..it..will..bother..you.


annd same pic highlighted

Alright guys.. post your thoughts!
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post #2 of 31 Old 05-01-2011, 05:46 PM
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Unfortunately from my experience with shopping HDTV's that is normal for led/lcd tv's. Some aren't as bad and some are worse but they've all got some of that showing. It looks more like bleeding than flash-lighting to me though.
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post #3 of 31 Old 05-01-2011, 05:48 PM
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I agree; that would bother me. But had you "tweaked" it yet? I have a bit of flashlighting in my Samsung, but after adjusting it as per some of the suggestions here, the areas are a lot less noticeable. But in the end, if you're not happy, no amount of mitigation will make you happy. While you'll never get a perfect set, you will eventually find one that is acceptable. Good luck!
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post #4 of 31 Old 05-01-2011, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Ah yes.. I should have thrown in the word bleeding.. as it's more of the flash lit cloud being bled out through the screen.

I was definitely aware that a lot of LED TV's have this effect.. I just don't feel like continually exchanging TV's back and forth to Best Buy to find one with the minimum amount of it.. so I'm thinking Plasma may be my best route..

It's just so damn distracting.
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post #5 of 31 Old 05-01-2011, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petesimac View Post

I agree; that would bother me. But had you "tweaked" it yet? I have a bit of flashlighting in my Samsung, but after adjusting it as per some of the suggestions here, the areas are a lot less noticeable. But in the end, if you're not happy, no amount of mitigation will make you happy. While you'll never get a perfect set, you will eventually find one that is acceptable. Good luck!

I've tried adjusting the back light and contrast a touch and cleaning the screen a bit with a microfibre cloth but with no luck yet. I don't really want to wait too long to find out if it fades over time seeing as my warranty may be up by then.. Thanks for the input though.
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post #6 of 31 Old 05-01-2011, 05:58 PM
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As much as I wanted a led tv (and I really really did) I just couldn't stand those effects so I've given up until the technology matures. maybe the 2012 or 2013 models will have better results. one thing I regret is not looking into plasma's before I bought another ccfl/lcd.
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post #7 of 31 Old 05-01-2011, 06:03 PM
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Kinda off topic but, do you know how many times you can return a TV to Best Buy? I am currently returning my Samsung 55D7000 so I would like to know just in case I run out of options with Amazon.
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post #8 of 31 Old 05-01-2011, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelonSplitter View Post

Kinda off topic but, do you know how many times you can return a TV to Best Buy? I am currently returning my Samsung 55D7000 so I would like to know just in case I run out of options with Amazon.

I'm not too sure of the limit but I've exchanged once already and they're now letting me exchange again. I've actually been really pleased with Best Buy's service.. extremely hassle free.
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post #9 of 31 Old 05-01-2011, 11:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petesimac View Post

I agree; that would bother me. But had you "tweaked" it yet? I have a bit of flashlighting in my Samsung, but after adjusting it as per some of the suggestions here, the areas are a lot less noticeable. But in the end, if you're not happy, no amount of mitigation will make you happy. While you'll never get a perfect set, you will eventually find one that is acceptable. Good luck!

I've tried dimming the backlight down a decent amount and it seemed to help a bit. What other tweaks did you try?
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post #10 of 31 Old 05-02-2011, 12:00 AM
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Don't trust the old guy below......

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post #11 of 31 Old 05-02-2011, 03:09 AM
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A little off-topic, but my current HDTV is also a Panasonic TH-42PZ77U. It did die on me once during the extended warranty period, but has since been good. I updated the firmware too, the firmware it came with was not the most current version.

Sorry to hear of your experience with the Sharp, but based on my own experience with LCD computer monitors, what you are seeing is fairly common in my experience. The severity can vary, but this is definitely one of the areas where plasma is superior.

At the end of the day, no display technology is without fault, but you definitely need to be happy with your purchase.
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post #12 of 31 Old 05-02-2011, 04:12 AM
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That is indeed too much of a light bleed…. This bleeding also changes with time, usually for worse…

Boky
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post #13 of 31 Old 05-02-2011, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelonSplitter View Post

Kinda off topic but, do you know how many times you can return a TV to Best Buy? I am currently returning my Samsung 55D7000 so I would like to know just in case I run out of options with Amazon.

I was very apologetic to the BestBuy guys and gals when I was buying my last set, and even called the store manager over to explain my problem. He said, and I quote, "We want the customer to be happy." He said I could bring back as many TVs as I needed to until I got one I was happy with. In the end, the 4th set was the charm. It's not perfect, but it's the most perfect out of the 4 I purchased.
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post #14 of 31 Old 05-02-2011, 06:42 AM
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I just want to say to the OP that I understand. This if frustration. But unless you go for a full backlight LED TV with local dimming, Flashlighting and clouding will be an issue. I must have tried 5 or 6 different TV last year from Sharp to Sony, to Samsung and LG and they ALL had some sort of clouding/flashlighting issues.

Quality of assembly isn't what it used to be. So Save up some money for a local dimming set.
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post #15 of 31 Old 05-02-2011, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petesimac View Post

I was very apologetic to the BestBuy guys and gals when I was buying my last set, and even called the store manager over to explain my problem. He said, and I quote, "We want the customer to be happy." He said I could bring back as many TVs as I needed to until I got one I was happy with. In the end, the 4th set was the charm. It's not perfect, but it's the most perfect out of the 4 I purchased.

Yeah, best buy doesn't really have a number of time you can return a TV although this could change if people would start abusing it. I never felt like they would not honor their policy. At worst case, they will always take your TV back but the manager could refuse to sell you another one.

May I ask you which TV your ended up returning and for why? I returned a few myself and wonder if you had different choices and issues.
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post #16 of 31 Old 05-02-2011, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme_Boky View Post

That is indeed too much of a light bleed. This bleeding also changes with time, usually for worse

Boky

Really? I heard it will at most stay the same if not, in some cases, get better over time. Does anyone else have any input on this statement?
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post #17 of 31 Old 05-03-2011, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Well.. Decided to go in to Best Buy and exchange for the Panny V25.. It arrives on Tuesday. The reviews have been amazing so I hope I'm pleased

At least there wont be any of the LCD LED issues such as viewing angle and light bleeding. I'll let you guys know how it works out.
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post #18 of 31 Old 05-04-2011, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Foster View Post

Really? I heard it will at most stay the same if not, in some cases, get better over time. Does anyone else have any input on this statement?

It may get better, but from my experience it gets worse in particular if the backlight source is CCFL and if the inverter dives more than one CCFL tube (2 or more CCFL's connected in series). Good inverters drive only one CCFL tube and are capable to equalise the current along the full length of the tube.

Backlight bleed you posted photos of, is more likely related to BEF's.

I don't have experience with LED backlight...

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Foster View Post

Well.. Decided to go in to Best Buy and exchange for the Panny V25.. It arrives on Tuesday. The reviews have been amazing so I hope I'm pleased

At least there wont be any of the LCD LED issues such as viewing angle and light bleeding. I'll let you guys know how it works out.

Let us know how it compares with Sharp... just a quick paragraph or 2 will do.

Boky
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post #19 of 31 Old 05-04-2011, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Foster View Post

Well.. Decided to go in to Best Buy and exchange for the Panny V25.. It arrives on Tuesday. The reviews have been amazing so I hope I'm pleased

At least there wont be any of the LCD LED issues such as viewing angle and light bleeding. I'll let you guys know how it works out.

You do realize that Plasma has PLENTY of their own issues - especially in a sunny room:
  1. Daytime Washout/Glare
  2. Buzzing
  3. Phospher Trails
  4. Image Retention
  5. 24/7 mirrored reflections
  6. Dimmer/Duller
  7. Dirty gray or yellowish whites (compared to LCD)
  8. Daytime Blacks that are gray if you have any sun in your room

I owned a Panny Plasma not as good as the VT25 but these issues remain on most plasmas today if you read their side of the forum or have owned one.

Considering all these factors compared to what you see with NO CONTENT on the LED I'll take the LED where CONTENT I'm actually viewing is not displaying these flaws whereas the plasma flaws are ever present during daytime viewing unless you have a mancave.

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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post #20 of 31 Old 05-04-2011, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

You do realize that Plasma has PLENTY of their own issues - especially in a sunny room:
  1. Daytime Washout/Glare
  2. Buzzing
  3. Phospher Trails
  4. 24/7 mirrored reflections
  5. Dimmer/Duller
  6. Dirty gray or yellowish whites (compared to LCD)
  7. Daytime Blacks that are gray if you have any sun in your room

I owned a Panny Plasma not as good as the VT25 but these issues remain on most plasmas today if you read their side of the forum or have owned one.

Considering all these factors compared to what you see with NO CONTENT on the LED I'll take the LED where CONTENT I'm actually viewing is not displaying these flaws whereas the plasma flaws are ever present during daytime viewing unless you have a mancave.

You didn't mention ir/burn-in. This is still an issue with plasma displays - at least up to the 2010 models. Gaming is a killer for these sets.

The dirty whites really bother me with plasma sets. I know this is due to circuitry in the set that limits current going to the panel, but for a technology that is supposed to provide color accuracy, I find it strange that the sets can't produce a white background.
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post #21 of 31 Old 05-04-2011, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

You do realize that Plasma has PLENTY of their own issues - especially in a sunny room..

Heh oh yes I'm aware of the pros and cons between the two techs. This is the fourth TV I've purchased in my day and my last one was a Panasonic TH-42PZ77U Plasma. I still feel that the plasma cons aren't as bad as the LED LCD cons I was facing for me.

I watch movies in a room where I can provide no leaked sunlight.. and although the picture becomes a little bit more dull with the window open I didn't mind it at all with my last plasma, especially because of the anti glare screen. With the Sharp Aquos I was getting quite the reflection off the screen. Again, I'm just weighing the pro's and con's for what I want in a TV.

It's not that I didn't love the picture the Sharp produced.. I was actually quite blown away. In fact, if there was no bleeding in my last two I had exchanged for then It would still be in my room today. However, I didn't feel like exchanging a bunch of times to see if I find the winner LED that had the minimum amount of this issue.

When it comes to TV's I realize everyone is different and the issue I was facing may not have bothered anyone else, while something like mild Image Retention may bother the hell out of some people. I really don't mind the issue of IR compared to flashlight bleeding and viewing angle issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

Considering all these factors compared to what you see with NO CONTENT on the LED

It's not so much when there's zero content on the screen. Notice the last picture I posted where the opening text has appeared and you still see the bleeding. When the bleeding is at its worst, about an hour and a half of the TV being turned on, the bleed will show up on most black.

I thought this issue wouldn't bother me.. even though I am a bit picky like that yet movies go black a lot more than you think when you're watching for an issue like this.. I would be talking to the screen "no no don't go black! Dammit there it is!"

Basically, being who I am, I know I would never be able to completely forget about this issue..and when spending a bunch of money I don't feel like I should have to settle.

Thanks for all the input by the way guys! I've been loving the community on this forum so far.
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post #22 of 31 Old 05-04-2011, 03:40 PM
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I too noticed backlight bleed in most of the LCD screens i have had. From computer monitors (Dell) to a Sony 32 in TV (xbr6) of the last 3 sets i had 2 plasma and my current one is a LED LCD(love it). My last plasma (panny 50s1) i noticed much of what was mentioned (yellow/grey whites) and i was disappointed with the black levels.

I now have a Sony 40hx800 and i love it. inky blacks. The screen edge disappears into the black bezel at nite (with subdued room lighting) When screen credits roll all i see is the white text surrounded by inky blacks.

were any of these LED LCD of the local dimmer variety? i do not see any of the flashlighting/bleeding. i think that when there is nothing on the screen my backlight shuts off (local dimming edge lit) would love to get a full array local dimming but too much $$ still. I have my eye on the Sony hx929. as was mentioned, local dimming may be something to look for.
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post #23 of 31 Old 05-10-2011, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok got the Panasonic VT25 today.. and although the Picture Quality is great there is a buzz that is annoying.. I've read a lot about the buzz but I was hoping I wouldn't be so unlucky as my third tv being defective.

Is there any way to stop this buzz? loosen screws? tighten them? anything at all?
The Buzzing only happens when I'm sitting dead on to the screen.. if I'm even 20 degrees to the side of the TV I don't hear it.. somebody tell me there is a fix.
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post #24 of 31 Old 05-10-2011, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Foster View Post

Ok got the Panasonic VT25 today.. and although the Picture Quality is great there is a buzz that is annoying.. I've read a lot about the buzz but I was hoping I wouldn't be so unlucky as my third tv being defective.

Is there any way to stop this buzz? loosen screws? tighten them? anything at all?
The Buzzing only happens when I'm sitting dead on to the screen.. if I'm even 20 degrees to the side of the TV I don't hear it.. somebody tell me there is a fix.

No fix available. That's how it is. Heard it said about every brand of plasma tv too.

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post #25 of 31 Old 05-10-2011, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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That's how it is.

If I had not heard other plasmas I would believe this. However, that isn't the case.
In my basement we have a Panasonic G10.. No buzzing or hum whatsoever. When i press the power button the screen comes on and you hear not even a hum, its beautiful.

On top of that, my brother has a Panasonic S10 in his room and again, no buzz or hum WHATSOEVER. Not to mention my previous TV was a Panasonic TH-42PZ77U and there also wasn't any kind of buzz or annoying neon light sound at all.

So this is why it seems like a defect.. ugh I think I'm going to have to exchange.. AGAIN
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post #26 of 31 Old 05-11-2011, 01:01 AM
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Get a dynamic LED LCD TV. The clouding still exists in the panel but with the dynamic LED, you don't notice it (because the LED shuts off in black areas).

I have an Sony Edge LED (HX800), and I rarely ever notice flashlighting and clouding anymore. Nothing used to drive me more crazy than an uneven black screen. My black bars now are pitch black and when the movie starts I get inky blackness along with the title/credits. It's blacker than plasma, even blacker than the bezel on my TV. I love it. And my TV weighs 30 lbs compared to the 80+ lbs of a plasma and costs significantly less than the vt25.
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post #27 of 31 Old 05-11-2011, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guibs View Post

Yeah, best buy doesn't really have a number of time you can return a TV although this could change if people would start abusing it. I never felt like they would not honor their policy. At worst case, they will always take your TV back but the manager could refuse to sell you another one.

May I ask you which TV your ended up returning and for why? I returned a few myself and wonder if you had different choices and issues.

Well, I bought the Samsung 670 (Best Buy's version of the 650) and there was some banding that was driving me crazy. The second set had the dreaded bright side of the screen issue, as well as a stuck pixel; back it went. They were out of 670s, so I tried a 630. AMP issues right out of the box, and the picture was extremely dark and unaffected by dark/brightness settings for the most part. Also, I hated the semi-matte screen; it lacked the pop of the 670, and it also amplified light sources -- instead of a dim reflection of a lamp, the semi-matte screen had a huge light blob, the lamp and the light from the lamp, so back IT went. I had them order another 670, and I finally found one I could live with. Some flashlighting in the lower two corners, but mostly the bottom right, no stuck pixels or bright sides, no vertical banding but a bit of horizontal banding, although rarely does a camera pan up and down, so it's not that noticeable (whereas side to side happens all the time in a soccer match or while watching golf). I might have returned this one because of the flashlighting, but apparently there is no perfect set. I'm glad I stuck with it.
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post #28 of 31 Old 09-05-2011, 11:26 AM
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Got my LC-60LE820UN last Dec. I'm seeing webbing during solid colors and now during moving images. I guess I know what to look for. Is this a product of the bleeding? I'm contemplating sending it back before warranty expires, but it was via Amazon and I am deathly afraid I'll get a worse one in return. Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
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post #29 of 31 Old 09-05-2011, 02:00 PM
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^^^ I believe that is an actual defect in the panel, which will likely get worse as time goes on. I would absolutely send it back. It's just going to continue to get worse anyway.

Quote:
Of course, I got it modified with the TK-427, which cheeks it up another, maybe, 3 or 4 quads per channel.
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post #30 of 31 Old 09-05-2011, 02:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Foster View Post

If I had not heard other plasmas I would believe this. However, that isn't the case.
In my basement we have a Panasonic G10.. No buzzing or hum whatsoever. When i press the power button the screen comes on and you hear not even a hum, its beautiful.

On top of that, my brother has a Panasonic S10 in his room and again, no buzz or hum WHATSOEVER. Not to mention my previous TV was a Panasonic TH-42PZ77U and there also wasn't any kind of buzz or annoying neon light sound at all.

So this is why it seems like a defect.. ugh I think I'm going to have to exchange.. AGAIN

No offense, but if I were the store manager, I would give you your money back and advise you to shop elsewhere.
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