The Official Sony EX720 Owner's Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 2042 Old 08-04-2011, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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The Demos are bad for me... As well as the 3D trailers... Uncharted 3 was nauseating.

Went to a Sony Store today... God, the TV is really really great when displaying 2D. I kinda missed setting my TV with a lot of POP. Maybe when friends come over. You can see that Detail Enhancer and other post-processing stuff really packs a wallop picture, but isn't really advisable in terms of long time viewing.
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post #542 of 2042 Old 08-05-2011, 03:47 AM
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I have now had FOUR EX720's 55 and 60... Why can't I get one without clouding? It is especially noticeable at night when changing channels and is severe when switching into 3D mode. The Mura is especially bad momentarily on Call of Duty 3 while switching from 2D to 3D.

Can anyone please give me some advice???
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post #543 of 2042 Old 08-05-2011, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikonosis View Post

LOL, I can tell you that the 2D on the NX720 is pretty amazing, a lot better blacks than the ex720 and no clouding.



Is there NO clouding... Or is it hidden by the darker opticontrast panel and dynamic lighting?
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post #544 of 2042 Old 08-05-2011, 05:27 AM
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Niko...looks like the only difference from the EX to the NX is the built in WI-FI? or is the NX true 240z also?

Here is my current gear: Onkyo TX-NR809 Receiver, CarverTFM-35 Front Amp, Sony EX55-720 3D TV, Oppo BDP-103 3D Blu-Ray Player, Panasonic DMB-BD50 Blu-Ray Player (for Cinavia encrusted copy playback), Polk RTI-12 Fronts, Polk LSiM703 Rears, Polk DSW Pro600, Older Infinity Center.
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post #545 of 2042 Old 08-06-2011, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DFREAK View Post

Niko...looks like the only difference from the EX to the NX is the built in WI-FI? or is the NX true 240z also?

dynamic lighting and gorilla glass. not 240hz
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post #546 of 2042 Old 08-06-2011, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BD2 View Post

Is there NO clouding... Or is it hidden by the darker opticontrast panel and dynamic lighting?

i don't really give a crap how its done, i can't see it and thats all that matters to me. The screen isn't any darker than the ex720.
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post #547 of 2042 Old 08-06-2011, 11:23 AM
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Hello everyone, just got my 40ex723 yesterday replacing my 2008 Sammy LCD, and I gotta say I'm' disappointed the contrast is inferior for some reason and I thought this LED edge lit TVs should have better contrast..

I mainly use my TVs for gaming, and so far I tried everything in Game scene and nothing looks right (without the advanced things that destroy the image and probably add more input lag) it's ether looks yellowish in its original Game scene settings, or bland when I mess with'em, please if anyone know a good settings to balance things up for gaming, please post them.. Maybe something has to do with the white balance?

3D in this set has a lot of crosstalk, but that's ok with me since it's the only LED 3D with an acceptable input lag.
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post #548 of 2042 Old 08-06-2011, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikonosis View Post
dynamic lighting and gorilla glass. not 240hz
What exactly does dynamic lighting do?
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post #549 of 2042 Old 08-06-2011, 03:54 PM
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Probably all EX720 sets have clouding. Fortunately it becomes a non-issue if Advanced Contrast Enhancer (ACE) is set to LOW. Clouding becomes almost invisible for 99% of situations, and ACE can actually improve the picture... what it does is to lower the backlight during dark scenes (black will no longer look like dark gray), it's not perfect, color temp will suffer a little with ACE, but the massive improvement in contrast and blacks depth (as well as making clouding go away) are very well worth it.
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post #550 of 2042 Old 08-06-2011, 06:50 PM
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Was trying to decide between 42" LG LV5500 and 40" Sony EX720.
Went to BB and looked at both of them there. Both are really nice TV's.

But, finally ordered Sony EX720.

Hopefully I made a right choice.
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post #551 of 2042 Old 08-07-2011, 02:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Sony would be surprised to see that most of the posters here are complaining about the crosstalk. Maybe not surprised, but ALARMED.

The sad truth though is that if it's an engineering problem, we're still 50-50. If it's hardware engineering, we ARE screwed. If it's software I don't see why a patch hasn't arrived yet.

In about 6 month's time, we're moving to another house. I'll build a dedicated theater room for it and I don't see this set being the center of attention. My friend who tried 3D for the first time already complained about having double-visions. Maybe I'll just switch to a projector (3D ready) and look what we can do with this set, maybe trade it in.

As for now, I'm just enjoying the 2D brilliance of Sony EX720. Power Saving is set to LOW and I'm used to the difference between LOW and Off.

Regarding ACE, I suggest it to those people getting bothered by all black screens. Basically it will dim the all black scenes into pure blacks and then switch to normal once color variation starts. Drawback though is that it does affect the color temperature a bit. Good thing I have mine set to Warm2.

I'm being occupied by work, and this Dota port game. So haven't had time with the set other than the occasional playing. (Catherine and Heavy Rain, both for PS3)

I'm also excited for the new home theater room. Maybe will switch to audio for now since all these years I've been a videophile.
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post #552 of 2042 Old 08-07-2011, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikonosis View Post

i don't really give a crap how its done, i can't see it and thats all that matters to me. The screen isn't any darker than the ex720.

My main concern about Mura / Clouding is that it will prematurely degrade the life of the TV. Will the imperfections cause the TV to die an early death or get worse over time? Any evidence for or against?

My 60ex723 has a great 2D pic, but if it won't last due to poor engineering, why should I keep it?
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post #553 of 2042 Old 08-07-2011, 11:39 AM
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Kevin, could you please get an update from Phil?
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post #554 of 2042 Old 08-07-2011, 04:45 PM
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I have found with clouding if you either put power saver on low, or up

or advanced contrast enhancer on low to high\\\\

cloading will be reduced this information came from other posters, on this site BitterKevin Bytehoven etc
just read the entire forum for more information on this before asking questions that have been asked already im tired of reading people posting the same questions without reading!! this thread
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post #555 of 2042 Old 08-08-2011, 08:02 AM
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Trying to make a decision here.

I need a new TV to replace a Sharp LC-40LE830U. It had bad backlight bleeding problems. I really don't care about 3D, but I can get this TV for $860 from my company discount.

I'm trying to decide if I should get this or a Samsung D6000 when only comparing picture quality. Ignore 3D, price, sound, etc. etc. Any ideas?
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post #556 of 2042 Old 08-08-2011, 03:12 PM
 
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Phil emailed me again 2 days ago saying he hasnt forgotten about us and will email engineering today (monday).

Tried the "screw loosening" trick- it didn't do anything. Best thing i can recommend for good blacks and less spotlighting is Power Saver on Low and Backlight on 5 (default but whatever you prefer). Personally i think it looks better that Power Saver Off, Backlight on 2 or 3.
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post #557 of 2042 Old 08-08-2011, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitterkevin View Post
Phil emailed me again 2 days ago saying he hasnt forgotten about us and will email engineering today (monday).

Tried the "screw loosening" trick- it didn't do anything. Best thing i can recommend for good blacks and less spotlighting is Power Saver on Low and Backlight on 5 (default but whatever you prefer). Personally i think it looks better that Power Saver Off, Backlight on 2 or 3.
Is there a certain spot that bleeds badly on the EX720 or is it hit or miss?

I honestly don't mind when the edges bleed. I just don't like it to actually be off the edge and on to the bigger viewing area. Exactly why I'm getting rid of my sharp. Two TVs bled in the upper left where I could tell a screw was too tight and of course its on the inside and I can't access it.
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post #558 of 2042 Old 08-09-2011, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitterkevin View Post

Phil emailed me again 2 days ago saying he hasnt forgotten about us and will email engineering today (monday).

Tried the "screw loosening" trick- it didn't do anything. Best thing i can recommend for good blacks and less spotlighting is Power Saver on Low and Backlight on 5 (default but whatever you prefer). Personally i think it looks better that Power Saver Off, Backlight on 2 or 3.


Hi bitterkevin,

I've read about the screw loosening trick. I was wondering if you could let us know which screws are supposed to be loosened in order to, in theory, lessen the cloud effect.

Thanks,
Dave
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post #559 of 2042 Old 08-09-2011, 12:55 PM
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Is LCD and LED LCD HDTV uniformity a problem?

Read more:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...#ixzz1UYywd2Bx

"Nearly every LCD TV on the market has a problem: uniformity. Certain areas of the screen are going to be brighter than other areas. On dark scenes, this can be visible and sometimes distracting. So what causes it? What can be done?"

"What can be done?
Well, for the end user, nothing. But of course manufacturers are spending lots of research dollars into making a better product, uniformity being one of those factors."

"But even though it's not noticeable in a store (the only thing TV manufactures really care about), uniformity issues are easily seen at home. It's also often mistakenly assumed it's a "defect" with the television. If you watch dark movies, or ones with letterbox bars, it can also be extremely distracting."

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...#ixzz1UYzjNc00

LB
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post #560 of 2042 Old 08-09-2011, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitterkevin View Post

Phil emailed me again 2 days ago saying he hasnt forgotten about us and will email engineering today (monday).

Hope things move forward this time!
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post #561 of 2042 Old 08-10-2011, 11:32 PM - Thread Starter
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My Picture Settings
* - I'll stay with this Picture Settings until God knows when. After months of switching, I'm happy with this one.

[Picture Adjustments menu]
Setting Memory: [any]
Picture Mode: Cinema1 (for those with updated patch)
Backlight: 3
Picture: 95
Brightness: 53
Color: 53
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Warm 2
Sharpness: 10* (Depends on your viewing distance, 0-10 is fine)
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off
Motionflow: Off
CineMotion: Auto 1

[Advanced Settings menu]
Black Corrector: Off
Adv. Contrast Enhancer: Low
Gamma: +1
Auto Light Limiter: Off
Clear White: Off
Live Color: Off
Detail Enhancer: Off
Edge Enhancer: Off
Skin Naturalizer: Off [grayed out]
i/p Conversion Preference: Quality [grayed out]

--White Balance menu--
R-Gain: -2
G-Gain: 0
B-Gain: 0
R-Bias: -2
G-Bias: -2
B-Bias: -2

NOTE: Adv. Contrast Enhancer does take the natural color temp off the median, but the benefits far outweighs the disadvantage of setting it to Low. I would recommend this to Low too on 3D viewing.

I have Warm 2 anyway, shout out to the sepia fans out there!
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post #562 of 2042 Old 08-11-2011, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliCool View Post

NOTE: Adv. Contrast Enhancer does take the natural color temp off the median, but the benefits far outweighs the disadvantage of setting it to Low. I would recommend this to Low too on 3D viewing.

Indeed!

By the way, what's this all about?

"Cinema1 (for those with updated patch)"

What's so special about Cinema 1?

Thanks!
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post #563 of 2042 Old 08-11-2011, 10:03 AM
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So I've had my TV a couple of weeks now. I'm glad to report that I'm pretty happy with the 2D abilities of this TV, some slight flashlighting issues aside but those are close to insignificant now since I have made use of the power saving feature. I actually find the power saving feature (on low) to be better anyway, even when not considering the flashlighting. Maybe it's just me but I dislike super-burn-your-eyes-out bright.

Anyway, since I am using this as a bedroom TV, 32" was my limit so my choices (thus expectations) were limited. But as far as 2D goes, I'm happy enough.

Now if only that 3D could be addressed then maybe this TV would be worth its price. If I end up never making use of the 3D on this due to its current awful quality I will feel ripped off. Sure, I was never going to make great use of 3D, 95%+ of the time I planned to use it in 2D. But still, sigh... don't let me down Sony. Putting out dodgy products is hardly the best way to actually make money from your TV business.
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post #564 of 2042 Old 08-11-2011, 05:28 PM
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Hey guys id like to call into question cnets review of the ex720. So they critique the black level of the set.

Further investigation(with calibration knowledge) shows that the set scored a .005 out of the box. Very very low black level. I noticed in store today that it had really really good black.

Anyway He trashed the set for black level but said he was willing to give up black level to even out the gamma bringing it up from 2.38 to 2.2.

This tells me he has no freaking idea what hes doing. you dont need to give up black level as long as you see the detail in the darkest shades properly.

Gamma up to 2.4 is considered ok maybe not optimal but not out of line. Sure you adjust to get it better but not at the cost of doubling the black level.

I have had about enough of CNET and thier absolute lcd bias.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...ml?tag=rvwBody

I have an ex500 but I found this to be idiotic. Just figured to point this out.
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post #565 of 2042 Old 08-11-2011, 06:28 PM
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Why use ECO settings Power Save mode instead of Advanced Contrast Enhancer?
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post #566 of 2042 Old 08-11-2011, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViciAudio View Post

Why use ECO settings Power Save mode instead of Advanced Contrast Enhancer?

Well ACE is different from Power Saver. For one, Power Saver dims the whole picture while ACE just adjusts during dark scenes. On my experience last night watching Inception, ACE was helpful but the flashlighting spots where still visible albeit much less pronounced on darker scenes.

ACE though has the habit of really making the skin tone paler than normal.

With regards to Cinema 1, some people claim that they are seeing better results with Cinema 1. I don't share the same sentiments though, honestly anything you put doesn't matter. I just put it to Cinema 1 for the benefit of others claiming it helped the 3D after the most recent patch.
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post #567 of 2042 Old 08-11-2011, 10:40 PM
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Hello everyone,

Following this thread since the beginning without taking time to post.
The message of serialmike makes me react, as I share the same exact feeling and questions.

Owner of a 40EX720 since April, the purchase was made really difficult by the lack of reviews on this model.
DigitalVersus, TelevisionInfo.com and some others were praising the set (especially black levels and image depth).

And in the middle of that, CNET which was qualifying the black levels of the set as the 'worse of their lineup'.
Really disturbing as CNET has a very serious and professionnal appearance.

With time, i could read other detailed reviews and forum opinions which helped to dramatically improve my understanding and knowledge of TV calibration.

And definitely, I can't understand CNET test:

1- this is the only reviewer pointing out a such lack of black levels (some call them just 'decent' or 'solid', but rather compared to local dimming LCD or plasma sets)

2- looking at the post calibration settings, you can indeed see that the black levels were sacrified in order to get gamma curve in place. This is surprising as many other reviewers managed to get a 2.2 curve without graying the blacks.

3- anyway, i question the benefits of losing blacks levels (image depth, color pop, etc) to obtain 'good' shadow detailing. Is calibration only a science of numbers ? Would be curious to have feedback from some calibration 'experts'

4- all in all, the real and not biased comment about the set would be 'weaker shadow detailing'. Exactly as said for the Sammy C630 (CNETs review also). Saying 'lighter/worse black levels' is enough to disqualify the set for many 'informed' people.


Looking at other tests on CNET, i could notice that Sony sets were rarely praised. Wonder if this linked to the fact that Sony is not a 'Premium Brand' on CNET advertisement program..
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post #568 of 2042 Old 08-12-2011, 12:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Xenophane...

Good thing you decided to finally post! The more people here, the more information readers can get from owners of the set. After all, it's the main purpose of owner's thread... to give both praise and warning to the set.

CNET's review seems a bit off indeed. Many casual buyers will get misdirected. I don't agree with their black level complaint and I also second your view on choosing black level over getting the right gamma.

That's why I deviated a bit from their suggested settings. The solution to restore your black level is to put Gamma back to 0 and Brightness down to 52. (Although I'm still using 53) They are right though with regards to the bluish tint... I see it on the letterbox borders all the time!

More on ACE (let's segue a bit):

Noticed that at Low adds a huge difference to the picture. Tried setting Power Save to LOW and ACE off and will further observe.
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post #569 of 2042 Old 08-12-2011, 06:58 AM
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Hi CaliCool,

Indeed, it's good to share experiences with other users. Especially when it comes to the ' special case' of the EX720.
Switching from a review to another one, you can sometimes really wonder if we are speaking of the same set.


After 4 months of use, I slowy come to really love the set. But it took me some work, as I come from 32'' Sharp 720p LCD (very good in its time) on which backlight and colors were set to insane values.

Actually, I like punchy pictures with vibrant colors. So for my first moments with the EX720, though I got stunned by the smoothness of the picture (which contain superbly aliasing in games), I felt a little bit frustrated by the slightly lack of pop of the set. This was my feeling at this time.

After a couple of hours spent on the dynamic preset of the TV, I realised my mistake. Sony is not Sammy
As far I could bear, I slowly went back to 'Natural' then 'Warm' color settings. Then I started to appreciate the very subtle render of the colors. Smooth, natural and with a lot of shades.

I also tried to reduce backlight from Max (!) to 5, and activate ECO settings. The 'dark' sense of the first days finally disappeared, at the benefit of an unexpected picture depth (kinda like a 3D sense) coupled with very good black levels. -even if I still struggle a bit with shadow details, but really, that's ok.

So far, I am not able to go further than 'Warm 1' for videogames. But I start to appreciate the Warm2 preset for movies.


I could recently have a look to my old Sharp which now rests in peace at my father's home. I found the picture almost unwatchable with my old settings. So forced and unnatural. I started some adjustments and things went better (but not even close to the EX). So I guess the efforts I made to educate my eyes were worth it after all.

I could also compare my EX720 to a 32EX710 owned by a friend of mine (MVA panel). To my taste, the EX710 had already a beautiful picture (clear and detailed) but no matter the settings, I found the colors to be a little bit washed out on this set. Back to home, I was glad to observe that the EX720 had a better color rendering.

Color is also the reason why I finally gave up on ACE. With correct settings, the set naturally delivers enough contrast to my taste. And thankfullly, the flashlighting is quite moderate. Playing Naruto UNS 2 on X360 without any enhancement is already a colorful and breathtaking experience.

Guess I will stop here for now although i still have much to say about this TV .
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post #570 of 2042 Old 08-12-2011, 08:57 AM
 
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Niko, since you no longer own a 720 and feel the need to make bitchy little comments, just leave the damn thread. Stop insulting my friend and go back to your basement.

Phil is still traveling so have some patience. Altho I would say all evidence points to no resolution for our problem. It seems to be related to refresh rate, and our set is only 120hz... and you can't patch refresh rate. I can only hope maybe they will make glasses that shut longer.
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