The Official Sony EX720 Owner's Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 2058 Old 05-14-2011, 03:29 PM
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Greeting EX72x owners...

I have had the Best Buy EX723 for about a week and after a rough calibration and tweaks to the settings, I am pretty happy with the display for our family room. It would appear the ex723 is the ex720 with built in wi-fi, but otherwise the same display.

I am waiting on a service manual before I get serious about a full calibration with Calman/chroma-5.

The only visual artifact bugging me, is some static, sample & hold noise when panning certain backgrounds. What is that artifact called around AVS? Is there a way to reduce or eliminate this noise? Do all LCD flat panel displays have this to some degree?

My settings so far have been:

Daytime Viewing
Standard
Panel Brightness = 5 for normal
Picture = 95
Brightness = 47
Color = 40
Tint = 0
Sharp = 50
Color Temp = Warm 2, Normal or Cool
All Noise Reduction = All Off
MotionFlow = Off or Standard, Smooth for FPS Gaming

Advanced Settings
Black Level = Off
Advance Contrast = Off
Gamma = 0
Edge Detail = Off
Global Detail = Off
Live Color = Low
Clear White = Low
All other stuff = Off or default

Night/Dark Room Viewing
Standard
Panel Brightness = 2 for normal
Picture = 95
Brightness = 47
Color = 40
Tint = 0
Sharp = 50
Color Temp = Warm 2, Normal or Cool
All Noise Reduction = All Off
MotionFlow = Off or Standard, Smooth for FPS Gaming

Advanced Settings
Black Level = Off
Advance Contrast = Off
Gamma = 0
Edge Detail = Off
Global Detail = Off
Live Color = Low
Clear White = Low
All other stuff = Off or default


I have been considering moving up a few models if it would eliminate the static noise I sometimes see during panning back grounds. Then again, this LCD display is for more casual viewing in the family room, while the more serious movie watching takes place in the HT on a Sony vw90es SXRD projector.

I'd love to here more calibration reports for the ex720 as well as any reports on what features can be accessed/calibrated from the service menu.

RJ
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post #32 of 2058 Old 05-14-2011, 07:57 PM
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I think the issue I mentioned above is what you all call DSE (dirty screen effect).


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post #33 of 2058 Old 05-14-2011, 10:13 PM
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When I go to "Internet TV" I just get black boxes where I believe the logos for the various services should be (Netflix, YouTube, etc.). The text by the box tells me what the service is but how do I get the logos instead of the box?

By the way, I have a 55EX620 and I'm in Canada.
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post #34 of 2058 Old 05-14-2011, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappcam View Post

When I go to "Internet TV" I just get black boxes where I believe the logos for the various services should be (Netflix, YouTube, etc.). The text by the box tells me what the service is but how do I get the logos instead of the box?

By the way, I have a 55EX620 and I'm in Canada.

Sorry, don't know ... this thread is for EX720. You might want to search for an EX620 thread here!
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post #35 of 2058 Old 05-14-2011, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

Greeting EX72x owners...

I have had the Best Buy EX723 for about a week and after a rough calibration and tweaks to the settings, I am pretty happy with the display for our family room. It would appear the ex723 is the ex720 with built in wi-fi, but otherwise the same display.

I am waiting on a service manual before I get serious about a full calibration with Calman/chroma-5.

The only visual artifact bugging me, is some static, sample & hold noise when panning certain backgrounds. What is that artifact called around AVS? Is there a way to reduce or eliminate this noise? Do all LCD flat panel displays have this to some degree?

My settings so far have been:

Daytime Viewing
Standard
Panel Brightness = 5 for normal
Picture = 95
Brightness = 47
Color = 40
Tint = 0
Sharp = 50
Color Temp = Warm 2, Normal or Cool
All Noise Reduction = All Off
MotionFlow = Off or Standard, Smooth for FPS Gaming

Advanced Settings
Black Level = Off
Advance Contrast = Off
Gamma = 0
Edge Detail = Off
Global Detail = Off
Live Color = Low
Clear White = Low
All other stuff = Off or default

Night/Dark Room Viewing
Standard
Panel Brightness = 2 for normal
Picture = 95
Brightness = 47
Color = 40
Tint = 0
Sharp = 50
Color Temp = Warm 2, Normal or Cool
All Noise Reduction = All Off
MotionFlow = Off or Standard, Smooth for FPS Gaming

Advanced Settings
Black Level = Off
Advance Contrast = Off
Gamma = 0
Edge Detail = Off
Global Detail = Off
Live Color = Low
Clear White = Low
All other stuff = Off or default


I have been considering moving up a few models if it would eliminate the static noise I sometimes see during panning back grounds. Then again, this LCD display is for more casual viewing in the family room, while the more serious movie watching takes place in the HT on a Sony vw90es SXRD projector.

I'd love to here more calibration reports for the ex720 as well as any reports on what features can be accessed/calibrated from the service menu.

RJ
...

Interesting ... got a question for you ...

... seems like you change Panel brightness based on time of day.

Here's the question: do you find the ambient light sensor NOT working as "expected"?
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post #36 of 2058 Old 05-14-2011, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crb View Post

Here's the question: do you find the ambient light sensor NOT working as "expected"?

I have only experienced ambient light sensors on a few displays and none of them set the panel backlight brightness correctly for my taste.

In theory, I have read setting 3 was meant for night time viewing, but with advanced contrast set OFF, I prefer 2 on panel brightness to restore lower black out performance.

During the day, setting 5 has been plenty bright. With room brightness kinda maxed out with a sunny day or most of the room lights on, I can see turning the panel backlight up toward max.

3D mode sets the backlight to max, which is where it helps restore some of the lumens filter by the glasses.

Update on the DSE: I have noticed turning down the sharpness to MIN has reduced the effected, particularly on decent or better HD signals. It seems there is the greatest chance to induce DSE when the source image has excessive grain or noise. This makes me wonder if the artifacts is really due to the various screen coatings which assist contrast performance. I think there is some signal processing errors helping produce the errors. I am planning to watch a poor quality DVD with excessive noise/grain, attempt to induce DSE and then play around to see if any settings changes make it worse or better.

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post #37 of 2058 Old 05-15-2011, 03:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

I have only experienced ambient light sensors on a few displays and none of them set the panel backlight brightness correctly for my taste.

In theory, I have read setting 3 was meant for night time viewing, but with advanced contrast set OFF, I prefer 2 on panel brightness to restore lower black out performance.

During the day, setting 5 has been plenty bright. With room brightness kinda maxed out with a sunny day or most of the room lights on, I can see turning the panel backlight up toward max.

3D mode sets the backlight to max, which is where it helps restore some of the lumens filter by the glasses.

Update on the DSE: I have noticed turning down the sharpness to MIN has reduced the effected, particularly on decent or better HD signals. It seems there is the greatest chance to induce DSE when the source image has excessive grain or noise. This makes me wonder if the artifacts is really due to the various screen coatings which assist contrast performance. I think there is some signal processing errors helping produce the errors. I am planning to watch a poor quality DVD with excessive noise/grain, attempt to induce DSE and then play around to see if any settings changes make it worse or better.

Hey man.

As I was skimming through your posts the first thing that jumped to me is the Sharpness setting. On the subject, I've been tinkering with Sharpness for years on different sets and all came up with the same result. A sharper picture indeed but it will generate a lot of noise. As I've mentioned, I'm willing to sacrifice some blurriness in order to eliminate noise/grain. The blurriness though is subject to the viewer's eye, as I've no problem when I've finally learned to calculate the correct viewing distance.

Have you tried the noise reduction settings? Let me know what happened. Before, those grainy pictures irritated me. But now with the set, some titles that I've watched before (like Iron Man, really grainy during some scenes) exhibited no graining at all! That is, after toning down the Sharpness to a reasonable level.
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post #38 of 2058 Old 05-15-2011, 03:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone have solid 3D settings? Disappointed with the set so far, played NBA 2K11 3D for one whole game and there were really framerate issues. I had to set the Scene Selection/Selector to General in order to turn off the Cinema Drive. It was bearable, but a far cry from its 2D display that handles motion well.
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post #39 of 2058 Old 05-15-2011, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliCool View Post

Anyone have solid 3D settings? Disappointed with the set so far, played NBA 2K11 3D for one whole game and there were really framerate issues. I had to set the Scene Selection/Selector to General in order to turn off the Cinema Drive. It was bearable, but a far cry from its 2D display that handles motion well.

Have you tried the "Game" preset?

I only purchased the 3D glasses two-pack from Sony yesterday; but still waiting for some 3D content.
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post #40 of 2058 Old 05-15-2011, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by CaliCool View Post

Hey man. As I was skimming through your posts the first thing that jumped to me is the Sharpness setting.

Last night, after having started watching with sharpness set to MIN, I don't think I noticed a single DSE artifact while watching movies on various FIOS HD Premium channels. I'll have to see what happens with some less than perfect source signals.

Sharpness and any other detail enhancing menu options almost always create noise and ringing when they are in the additive end of their adjustment. But not everyone is easily convinced to turn down or turn off these options.

I got my fingers crossed based on last night's viewing.

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post #41 of 2058 Old 05-15-2011, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by crb View Post

Have you tried the "Game" preset?

I only purchased the 3D glasses two-pack from Sony yesterday; but still waiting for some 3D content.

Yes I did. Once the 3D signal started, it automatically went to Game-Standard Preset. Motionflow is OFF by default, and Cinema Drive only offers Auto 2 while on the said mode. Frame rate is horrible.

While on topic of Motion Flow. Can anyone explain the difference of Clear, Smooth, and Standard? As well as Auto 1 and Auto 2 for Cinema Drive?
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post #42 of 2058 Old 05-15-2011, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliCool View Post

While on topic of Motion Flow. Can anyone explain the difference of Clear, Smooth, and Standard? As well as Auto 1 and Auto 2 for Cinema Drive?

If I am correct,

Motion Flow Standard and Smooth is Frame Interpolation. The difference between standard and smooth is the amount of motion artifacts removed. Standard tries to maintain a bit more of the source motion artifacts to reduce the Soap Opera Effect.

Clear and Clear Plus is Backlight Strobing. I assume Clear Plus just leaves the backlight off longer and thus is darker.

Cinema Drive = instead of traditional 3:2 pulldown of 24fps to 60hz, it makes 5 frames to convert 24fps to 120hz conversion via frame repeating.

Now, these processing options can work together, but I'm still not clear when/how.

For instance, Motion Flow + Cinema Drive ... What's happening?
Clear/Clear Plus + Cinema Drive ... What's happening?
Cinema Drive Auto 1 vs Auto 2 ... what's different?

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post #43 of 2058 Old 05-15-2011, 02:30 PM
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were is the game mode?
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post #44 of 2058 Old 05-15-2011, 05:09 PM
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On the remote, look for the SCENE button. Once you click that and the menu comes up, GAME mode is near the bottom of the list of SCENE menu options.

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post #45 of 2058 Old 05-15-2011, 11:47 PM
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I spent some time tonight in 3D mode. This included Avatar on FIOS HBO/3D in side-by-side format and Despicable Me from a Panny 3D blu-ray player.

1st, I think we all know, broadcast side-by-side is half the resolution of blu-ray, so it's not an apples to apples comparison, but for the sake of seeing how things worked differently, it was worth exploring.

Blu-Ray 3D Source:
Was very good. My only complaint would be ghosting at various depths of field. If you adjusted for ghosting in the back of the field of view, the front ghosted. If you adjusted for the front, the back ghosted. No changes to any other images settings made a difference.

Motion Flow standard & smooth are available and are needed to eliminate a very slight flicker most apparent on bright white images. Clear & Clear Plus were not available. The Motion Flow under 3D does add an interesting hesitation on vertical pans, which looks like a 3:2 cadence if you know what I mean. Only turning Motion Flow off would fix the vertical panning artifact. The flicker may be the result of the display only being 120hz panel. I'd like to try other 3D glasses than my BDT100 glasses to see if the flicker can be tweaked in the glasses setup. Honestly, the flicker becomes transparent after awhile, but it's something you notice at first.

You can access the SCENE menu and select any of the scene modes and adjust from there.

One thing I found very interesting... some of the image processing features I would ordinarily leave turned off, actually helped with the 3D image. For instance Advanced Contrast enhancement actually worked very well on HIGH. It not only add some depth to the image, it brightened the image as well, and every little bit of brightness helps. I also raised sharpness back to 65 and played with Detail and Edge Enhancement. These also looked very good on 3D, helping to add depth to the 3D image. So, I would suggest experimenting with some of those features you would ordinarily leave turned off.

All in all the 3D performance was pretty good, but not as good as our vw90es projector and I'm sure not as good as some plasmas. But it's good enough. I would like to see a HX909 or HX929 in action for comparison.

FIOS 3D side-by-side Source
1st let me say side-by-side is sub standard in so many ways, but there are no other broadcast 3D alternatives at the moment. So we make the best of the offering. Aside from the inherent issues with broadcast 3D, the ex723 3D performance was pretty good. Same ghosting issues with elements at various depths of field.

Like Blu-Ray 3D... it is also worth turning some things on to help with the image, however, be careful about a build up of noise and compression artifacts inherent in the compromised source signal. While the Advanced Contrast still looks good, extra sharpness & detail/edge enhancement will bring out the worst artifacts in the source.

MotionFlow is not available in side-by-side 3D mode. Then again there is no flicker either. I'm not sure why there is no flicker like there is with the blu-ray 3D source and MF turned off. Probably because the FIOS HD is 60hz.

Over all, I am OK with the 3D performance. I know Despicable Me has some inherent ghosting issues, so I look forward to seeing some alternative 3D movies on Blu-Ray. I wish I still had my copy of Avatar. However, based on the similar ghosting I saw on the HBO/3D Avatar, it may not get any better.

On a side note regarding the blue tint: It's not the darkest black level that has a blue tint, but rather maybe the 10-20 IRE range. I found going into White Balance and setting the Blue Bias to (-2) helped a lot. I was then able to raise brightness a click to 48 to restore the lost detail. At some point I will calibrate with Calman and see how the grayscale tracks. There is definitely a blue tint but it can be quickly tweaked with blue bias. For now, I would not try increasing the red/green bias unless you can measure the grayscale track. It's liable to boost your black levels in a negative way.

The more I play with the ex723, the more I like it AND the more I wouldn't mind investing in a higher end Sony. Kinda of a contradiction I know, but there is something about the ex723 that satisfies even though I know it could be better. I guess it's because the ex723 easily out performs our old Sony CRT RPTV, but is not as good as our HT projector.

A note regarding SCENE Modes Be advised each SCENE mode offers it's own register(s) for storing image adjustment settings. This provides a great deal of extra set ups for different needs. Some of the SCENE Modes disable important features, like Game and Graphic mode turning off Motion Flow. Definitely check it out as a way to have more than (3) setups at your command.

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post #46 of 2058 Old 05-16-2011, 01:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the nice input. Really, really informative. I wish I had a lot of time with the set, for now I can only manage maybe an hour or two per day due to my schedule.

Anyway, I would love to hear answers regarding MotionFlow. (Especially crb) I've tried your settings and you have MF at Clear. I don't see any difference though. All it did was somehow dim the picture. Smooth provides the soap opera effect that I was used to with my old set.
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post #47 of 2058 Old 05-16-2011, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliCool View Post

Anyway, I would love to hear answers regarding MotionFlow. (Especially crb) I've tried your settings and you have MF at Clear. I don't see any difference though. All it did was somehow dim the picture. Smooth provides the soap opera effect that I was used to with my old set.

Clear and Clear Plus are the equivalent of Dark Frame Insertion (DFI) thru the strobing of the backlight. I assume the difference between Clear and Clear Plus is the amount of time the backlight is OFF, thus causing the image to be darker. I must say Clear and Clear Plus look much better than DFI on my projector.

As you noted, Smooth is frames being added thru frame interpolation and Smooth is more aggressive than Standard.

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post #48 of 2058 Old 05-16-2011, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by CaliCool View Post
Hmm... I have my backlight at 5 and I haven't really skimmed through the advanced settings yet. Just enjoying the set as of now. In terms of Sharpness most would tell you that it's better in a low number. Been a Sharpness fan before but sometimes anything higher than 20 will produce a really noisy pictures. Almost all of my sets before did the same so I cranked it all the way down at the expense of a somewhat blurry picture.
I did originally have my sharpness at min (that's the first thing I do when calibrating my set). However for this particular one, I did some testing with it and since I'm sitting quite far from the TV (about 13-15 feet), the "high" sharpness setting works for me. If I'd be closer than 10 feet I'd probably leave it at "min".
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post #49 of 2058 Old 05-16-2011, 12:11 PM
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I was able to see a 55hx929 on my local BB/Magnolia today. I post my observations in the 929 thread but thought I would comment here.

While the 929 was better than the ex723 in a number of areas, particularly 3D, the ex723 was superior in one area. MotionFlow and artifacts. I was surprised and disappointed when I started watching Avatar 2D on the hx929 and I started seeing edge artifacts around moving elements. Nothing I did would eliminate the artifacts. When I got home I check the same Avatar scenes on the ex723 and they were perfectly clean and free from edge artifacts.

I am still in shock. I was considering a switch to the 46hx929 at roughly twice the cost of the ex723. But the Motion Flow artifacts have spooked me. I like running MF-Standard on a lot of material and I'm worried I will be distracted. Not sure what was going on, but maybe the extra bandwidth of 960hz Motion Flow comes at a price.

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post #50 of 2058 Old 05-16-2011, 12:22 PM
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Personally, I didn't lower the sharpness below 50. To me it seems like 50 is pretty much like the 0 value on my previous sets. Setting it lower seem to make picture a bit blurrier. I am using PC input, so I judge by how the text looks like, and it doesn't look abnormally sharp at all, with the setting at 50.

Also the detail enhancer is a surprisingly decent feature. I don't use it for movies, but for games, setting it low introduces a slight enough bump in sharpness to make the game more detailed without it looking weird. Almost like a hi-res texture pack with no impact on performance. I mainly use it for games that seem to neglect including slightly higher-res textures for PC, which today seems to be almost every game, really
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post #51 of 2058 Old 05-16-2011, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

I was able to see a 55hx929 on my local BB/Magnolia today. I post my observations in the 929 thread but thought I would comment here.

While the 929 was better than the ex723 in a number of areas, particularly 3D, the ex723 was superior in one area. MotionFlow and artifacts. I was surprised and disappointed when I started watching Avatar 2D on the hx929 and I started seeing edge artifacts around moving elements. Nothing I did would eliminate the artifacts. When I got home I check the same Avatar scenes on the ex723 and they were perfectly clean and free from edge artifacts.

I am still in shock. I was considering a switch to the 46hx929 at roughly twice the cost of the ex723. But the Motion Flow artifacts have spooked me. I like running MF-Standard on a lot of material and I'm worried I will be distracted. Not sure what was going on, but maybe the extra bandwidth of 960hz Motion Flow comes at a price.

i know what you mean the hx929 does have more edge artifacts and moving elements than the ex723 why is that? the hx929 is way more $$$$

anyone use game mode when playing games?

i was going to upgrade and buy the hx929..... i still have 28 days to decide...

i have some clouding will this go away in time?
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post #52 of 2058 Old 05-16-2011, 05:04 PM
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i know what you mean the hx929 does have more edge artifacts and moving elements than the ex723 why is that? the hx929 is way more $$$$

It has to be due to the extra processing to create frames to fill 960hz. So, it would have been nice if the 929 had an option to operate at 240hz but with a cleaner image.

I see some very minor clouds and flash lighting on my ex723 during black outs, but not if I have the panel back light set low enough for good black out reproduction. When all of the lights are on in the room and the game is on, I could care less about the back light being a little too bright.

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post #53 of 2058 Old 05-16-2011, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe I should start bumping my Sharpness. Sometimes I really see a blurry picture. I'm sitting at approximately 8-10 feet away, which is the optimal viewing distance for 46 inches. Maybe sitting at 50 won't do any harm.

NOTE: Edited the first post and included picture settings from CNET, Television Info, and Flat Panels
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post #54 of 2058 Old 05-17-2011, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliCool View Post

Maybe I should start bumping my Sharpness. Sometimes I really see a blurry picture. I'm sitting at approximately 8-10 feet away, which is the optimal viewing distance for 46 inches. Maybe sitting at 50 won't do any harm.

NOTE: Edited the first post and included picture settings from CNET, Television Info, and Flat Panels


how are those settings for gaming? I am liking the cinema 1 setting....looks more natural...

are you guys happy with the 2D picture of this set?
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post #55 of 2058 Old 05-17-2011, 12:18 PM
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my av receiver doesn't support 3d, so i can't send my video and audio signal to it. Will need to send video directly to the TV from my blu ray, and then audio back to the receiver using the digital optical output on the back of the tv.

my question... when watching normal non-3d blu ray content, will the TV pass through the TrueHD and DTS HD Master back to the receiver in an unaltered form?
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post #56 of 2058 Old 05-17-2011, 12:49 PM
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According to the manual, the HDMI and optical connections only support 2-channel PCM and Dolby Digital on the TV. Not sure if it can pass DTS through... it might work if your player just streams it as PCM. PC solutions used to do that - has no effect on quality, but you don't get to see the fancy DTS writing on your receiver's screen.

PS.
Okay, figured I'd check it with my PC while I was at it. The TV doesn't support DTS for sure, and didn't seem to work by passing the signal to the receiver either (I used the HDMIs ARC feature, can't test with optical). Passing Dolby surround, worked though. Also, since PCM is limited to 2 channels, decoding DTS into PCM didn't get me the surround - only stereo.

Perhaps results will be different with a player and the S/PDIF connection, but I am not sure they will
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post #57 of 2058 Old 05-17-2011, 01:13 PM
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Dolby Tru HD and DTS Master HD cannot be transmitted over optical cable in any case--they're HDMI only.

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post #58 of 2058 Old 05-17-2011, 01:22 PM
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ugh. everytime you update one piece of equipment you invariably have to update the others. only challenge now is that the directv 3d service i have doesn't exactly play nicely with AVRs. Yay! maybe I'll just give up on the 3d content.
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post #59 of 2058 Old 05-17-2011, 05:25 PM
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I have been really liking the features of the tv..... but I seem to always be playing around with the settings..... I always manage to get the picture looking great but have not zeroed in on a standard setting.....

will post them when finished......
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post #60 of 2058 Old 05-17-2011, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan007 View Post

how are those settings for gaming? I am liking the cinema 1 setting....looks more natural...

are you guys happy with the 2D picture of this set?

I have only played with games for a short amount of time. The set is now 5 days and a half with me, but overall I'm happy with the 2D picture of this set. Enough to offset my irritation when I played NBA 2K11 on 3D. (Maybe the game's 3D just suck?) Crysis 2 though, with my 15 minutes of play time with it, was awesome.

My settings for Blu Ray viewing and Gaming is pretty much the same, I don't switch to game mode with the latter. (It only does turn off Motion Flow)

One thing I'm really satisfied with the set is the Black Levels. I heard from some people that the set doesn't produce deep-blacks but from what I'm seeing its adequate. Fired up BR movies before that produced dark scenes with bluish tints on my former set and EX720 handled it pretty well.
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