Official Sony HX929 Settings & Calibrations Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 272 Old 07-01-2011, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

What site came up with these? Sharpness at 0 is just way to low for this set imo.

These were copy/pasted from the latest FlatPanels review located here:

http://flatpanelshd.com/review.php?s...&id=1309426126

I have no opinion on the settings, but I wish to contribute as many such post calibration settings to this thread as possible so hx929 owners have some information to answer their hx929 calibration questions.

The only thing about the calibration settings that really interest me are the white balance RGB Gain/Bias offsets. I think it's important for us to make note of how offsets compare from as many calibrations as possible. These calibrations suggest something about the lower luminance gray scale track of the hx929 tested. I wonder if they are consistent with what others have experienced pre/post calibration.

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post #32 of 272 Old 07-01-2011, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

These were copy/pasted from the latest FlatPanels review located here:

http://flatpanelshd.com/review.php?s...&id=1309426126

I have no opinion on the settings, but I wish to contribute as many such post calibration settings to this thread as possible so hx929 owners have some information to answer their hx929 calibration questions.

The only thing about the calibration settings that really interest me are the white balance RGB Gain/Bias offsets. I think it's important for us to make note of how offsets compare from as many calibrations as possible. These calibrations suggest something about the lower luminance gray scale track of the hx929 tested. I wonder if they are consistent with what others have experienced pre/post calibration.

He didn't mention his ambient sensor setting. I'm assuming since he didn't mention it at all, he left it on default (on).

I agree about the white settings varying greatly from set to set, his white balance settings look off on my set (way too much blue).
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post #33 of 272 Old 07-04-2011, 03:02 PM
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Updated settings here.
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post #34 of 272 Old 07-04-2011, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

My updated settings from this post. Changes marked in green.

In my opinion, offers a superior picture than my previous settings. I have turned Ambient Sensor off, as it actually does not reduce blooming if you compare it with the same luminance. These settings use a lower backlight level, but with ambient sensor off it's roughly the same luminance. If you prefer to have Ambient Sensor on, set Backlight to around 8. However, I feel it was hurting the picture in some scenes.

As always, I welcome all comments - good or bad.

Scene: General
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 3
Picture: 98
Brightness: 48
Color: 50
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Warm 2
Sharpness: 65 (Preference, I find 65 works great for blu-rays but shows more defects in lower bitrate sources. I recommend anywhere between 50-65)
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off
Reality Creation: Off
Smooth Gradation: High
Motionflow: Clear Plus
CineMotion: Auto 2
Black Corrector: Off
Adv. Contrast Enhancer: Off
Gamma: 0
LED Dynamic Control: Standard
Auto Light Limiter: Off
Clear White: Low
Live Color: Off
White Balance: -2 Blue Gain (Everything else default)
Detail Enhancer: Off
Edge Enhancer: Off
Ambient Sensor: Off

Given Clear White makes the image more BLUE, I am wondering if you turned this OFF your Blue Gain might be set back to default?

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post #35 of 272 Old 07-04-2011, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

Given Clear White makes the image more BLUE, I am wondering if you turned this OFF your Blue Gain might be set back to default?

Nah, it's still needed. Clear White on low only seems to affect actual whites, I can't see any other blue push. Though, it's probably there.. it's way less than two points to blue gain.
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post #36 of 272 Old 07-04-2011, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

Nah, it's still needed. Clear White on low only seems to affect actual whites, I can't see any other blue push. Though, it's probably there.. it's way less than two points to blue gain.

Thanks. I also like a little Clear White.

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post #37 of 272 Old 07-05-2011, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

Thanks. I also like a little Clear White.

I'm still trying to decided between 65 Sharpness, or 50 Sharpness with Reality Creation on 10 Resolution. 50 Sharpness by itself seems really really dull to me. If you launch a game you'll see what I mean, the difference between 50 and 60 is huge.

Also I will likely remove the White Balance from my settings, since they vary greatly per set. Some people might actually need more blue, not less.

EDIT: Also I found a few scenes where Clear White was actually causing a blue push in. I may turn it off.
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post #38 of 272 Old 07-05-2011, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

I'm still trying to decided between 65 Sharpness, or 50 Sharpness with Reality Creation on 10 Resolution. 50 Sharpness by itself seems really really dull to me. If you launch a game you'll see what I mean, the difference between 50 and 60 is huge.

Also I will likely remove the White Balance from my settings, since they vary greatly per set. Some people might actually need more blue, not less.

IMHO, more not less white balance information is what is needed. But I understand your position and your calibrator's interest in keep such information non-disclosed.

Regarding sharpness... sharpness is an addictive drug. Ideally, you should throw up a test pattern and adjust sharpness such that all "ringing" disappears. That would be the ideal sharpness setting. Do you know what I mean by ringing?

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post #39 of 272 Old 07-05-2011, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

IMHO, more not less white balance information is what is needed. But I understand your position and your calibrator's interest in keep such information non-disclosed.

Regarding sharpness... sharpness is an addictive drug. Ideally, you should throw up a test pattern and adjust sharpness such that all "ringing" disappears. That would be the ideal sharpness setting. Do you know what I mean by ringing?

No set as of yet has had a good enough sharpness algorithm where it'll look right/not dull in one way or another without ringing appearing in test patterns. There are some sets better than others when it comes to that but this once again proves that what is "right" isn't necessarily what the specific set needs to be optimized.
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post #40 of 272 Old 07-05-2011, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Typhoon859 View Post

... what is "right" isn't necessarily what the specific set needs to be optimized.

But that's my point if by "optimized" you mean subjective appreciation by the owner. Once you start down the road of increasing the sharpness in order to optimize the image, you soon cross over into artifact-ville, where the image presented has more added structure than existed in the original signal.

But I will also agree, to each his own, if someone prefers to add detail where none existed in the source.

Even with the best graphic/image tools, when we work with a "soft" image to help add or restore a reasonable amount of clarity and detail, we must be careful to not go too far. Progressive displays are a bit more forgiving of too much detail, but CRTs will ring like crazy when image details are over tweaked, especially moving images.

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post #41 of 272 Old 07-05-2011, 03:14 PM
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Settings are calibrated for a room that is always moderately dim with no ambient light, and with the room moderately dark during movies.

General Settings
Ambient Sensor: Off
-
Wide Mode: Full
Auto Wide: Off
Auto Display Area: Off
Dispay Area: Full Pixel
-
SBM: On
HDMI Dynamic Range: Auto
Color Matrix: Auto
-
Power Saving: Off
Presence Sensor: Off
Position Control: Off

Movies
Scene: General
Picture Mode: Custom
Backlight: 2
Picture: 98
Brightness: 50
Color: 50
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Warm 2
Sharpness: 52
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off
Dot Noise Reduction: Off
Reality Creation: Off
Smooth Gradation: Low
Motionflow: Clear Plus
CineMotion: Auto2
-
Black Corrector: Off
Adv. Contrast Enhancer: Off
Gamma: -1
LED Dynamic Control: Standard
Auto Light Limiter: Off
Clear White: Off
Live Color: Off
White Balance:
-- R-Gain: -5
-- G-Gain: -1
-- B-Gain: -6
-- R-Bias: 0
-- G-Bias: 0
-- B-Bias: 0
Detail Enhancer: Off
Edge Enhancer: Off

Games
Scene: Game
Picture Mode: Game-Standard
Backlight: Min
Picture: 98
Brightness: 49
Color: 50
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Warm 2
Sharpness: 60
-
Black Corrector: Off
Adv. Contrast Enhancer: Off
Gamma: -1
LED Dynamic Control: Standard
Auto Light Limiter: Off
Clear White: Off
Live Color: Off
White Balance:
-- R-Gain: -5
-- G-Gain: -1
-- B-Gain: -6
-- R-Bias: 0
-- G-Bias: 0
-- B-Bias: 0
Detail Enhancer: Low
Edge Enhancer: Off
i/p Conversion Preference: Speed

Computer
Scene: Graphics
Picture Mode: Graphics
Backlight: Min
Picture: 98
Brightness: 49
Color: 50
Hue: 0
Color Temperature: Warm 2
Sharpness: 52
-
Black Corrector: Off
Adv. Contrast Enhancer: Off
Gamma: -1
LED Dynamic Control: Standard
Auto Light Limiter: Off
Clear White: Off
Live Color: Off
White Balance:
-- R-Gain: -5
-- G-Gain: -1
-- B-Gain: -6
-- R-Bias: 0
-- G-Bias: 0
-- B-Bias: 0
Detail Enhancer: Off
Edge Enhancer: Off
i/p Conversion Preference: Speed

Notes
1) Clear Plus results in the best motion and less blooming. It can look "dull" at first, but you will probably adjust to it quickly and actually learn to like it.
2) Ambient Sensor is required to be OFF for these settings. It has been a common misconception that it reduces blooming. In my testing, it infact tends to lower the backlight below the default "minimum" settings when Clear and Clear Plus are enabled, which will reduce blooming but also washes the picture out. If you adjust the backlight back up to normal levels, the blooming is exactly the same.
3) Cinema/General scenes produce the exact same picture when you use the same settings. Don't be afraid to use your preferred scene, it will result in the same picture quality.

EDIT (07/05/11): Changed some sharpness/backlight settings.
EDIT (07/06/11): Added White Balance.
EDIT (07/07/11): Minor adjustments/tweaks.
EDIT (10/10/11): Final Settings.
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post #42 of 272 Old 07-05-2011, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

But that's my point if by "optimized" you mean subjective appreciation by the owner. Once you start down the road of increasing the sharpness in order to optimize the image, you soon cross over into artifact-ville, where the image presented has more added structure than existed in the original signal.

But I will also agree, to each his own, if someone prefers to add detail where none existed in the source.

Even with the best graphic/image tools, when we work with a "soft" image to help add or restore a reasonable amount of clarity and detail, we must be careful to not go too far. Progressive displays are a bit more forgiving of too much detail, but CRTs will ring like crazy when image details are over tweaked, especially moving images.

Yes, because what we see on screen directly reflects the understanding that the blurrier the image, the nicer it looks since tiny details are brought out in the form of artifacts if the image is adjusted to look like you don't need a prescription for glasses.

Yes, that is the unfortunate side effect, but I'm not talking about turning everything into crystal wax. I'm talking about having the sharpness to the point before you stop gaining anything visually and start only to increase the artifacts. Depending on the "softness" of the display and how well the sharpness algorithm is written is what determines the amount I increase the sharpness. Just visually look at several images and stop where it clicks. If you use your eyes well, it tends to be around the same area. The amount of artifacts/usually just a bit of ringing that the TV creates is its fault. This one not being the best at it, there have been others that had very minimal ringing and looked rather beautiful (not that the HX929 differs that much in that regard). Point is, use your brain and your eyes and find what's to your liking instead of arguing against everybody that "you did the right thing" and are content with that, having a righteous smug look on your face. Convince yourself of that somewhere else.

I don't care if someone's settings are backwards to mine as long as its their personal opinion and the result of their own conception. That's what makes it valuable and respectable. I don't care if you had 0 sharpness, as long as it's what you like, not what "creates the least amount of artifacts". That's the concern of a video encoder/the person creating those PQ scripts.

The purpose of a thread like this is to share different settings and personal opinion based on visual reception. If the point is to get it exactly the same result using some meter which WON'T get it to look how intended because any standard that's thrown out there is total BS, then this would be titled, "Official Sony HX929 6500 Technical Support (Start with Warm2)". I have no problem with using test patterns/meters from time to time, here and there, as a guide or to help you get where you want. I have a problem with tweaking blindly till the numbers/visuals in these guides are where you've heard/"understand" they should be.

Next time, be a little less sarcastic in tone.
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post #43 of 272 Old 07-05-2011, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Typhoon859 View Post

The purpose of a thread like this is to share different settings and personal opinion based on visual reception.

Fair enough. Just be clear any ringing added to the image structure may create or exacerbate other image quality issues.

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post #44 of 272 Old 07-05-2011, 04:05 PM
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Fair enough. Just be clear any ringing added to the image structure may create or exacerbate other image quality issues.

Yeah, that's true. But the fact of the matter is that they're there. Sacrificing important details to make them less obvious is also not a way of going about solving the problem. Flaws of source material, no matter how consistent, isn't something that should be paid attention to.

You know TV's where there is excessive ringing no matter what you do? Lowering the sharpness to nothing wouldn't help your cause. Every TV is like that to one degree or another. Getting it so that there is no ringing isn't the right way to go regardless of argument. The TV should appear as that which it is playing which is the reason high quality source material is what should be looked to maintain. Saying that increasing sharpness makes blocking in DVDs look even worse isn't really an argument. Leaving sharpness where it is/decreasing it makes Blu-Ray content look soft on the other hand is, even though that's a subjective term. That's just the way I feel things work when it comes to anything visual or audio really. There are things that can be agreed upon that generally look good or even amazing, but it could still not be someone's cup of tea. "It tastes amazing but I feel like honey tastes better going down my throat than sugar does."
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post #45 of 272 Old 07-05-2011, 05:16 PM
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You know TV's where there is excessive ringing no matter what you do?

Indeed. Quite often I would look for something in the service menu to adjust lower or turn off, to further reduce any contrast or edge enhancement.

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post #46 of 272 Old 07-05-2011, 05:23 PM
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Indeed. Quite often I would look for something in the service menu to adjust lower or turn off, to further reduce any contrast or edge enhancement.

Yeah, sometimes TV's just have terrible edge enhancement. I like that in the HX929, it's more subtle.

I've been waiting to say since I saw it, but that's an awesome username BTW, lol.
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post #47 of 272 Old 07-05-2011, 05:26 PM
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I've been waiting to say since I saw it, but that's an awesome username BTW, lol.

Thanks... I used to own/operate a recording studio where we did lots of original scoring and soundtrack production. Because most of our music gear was electronic and computer based, the name followed.

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post #48 of 272 Old 07-05-2011, 05:56 PM
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Thanks... I used to own/operate a recording studio where we did lots of original scoring and soundtrack production. Because most of our music gear was electronic and computer based, the name followed.

Wow. Well that's exactly the kind of stuff I'm interested in, lol. Must be the association I felt with the name and why I liked it
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post #49 of 272 Old 07-06-2011, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Updated first post with CNET settings.

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post #50 of 272 Old 07-06-2011, 02:42 PM
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CNET settings are always wierd to me, they always adjust the brightness to be 1-2 notches above the darkest blacks, and then on top of that do +1 gamma. It makes the blacks on my set about 5-10% brighter when the screen is solid black. Definitely not something i'd want to do. Everything else looks great though with some personal preference added they are pretty close to my settings. White balance looks great too.

Updated my settings.
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post #51 of 272 Old 07-07-2011, 02:14 PM
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Hi Tyrindor,

I made similar comments in the main thread.
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post #52 of 272 Old 07-07-2011, 03:53 PM
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Updated settings for the 46" and 360 settings added HERE. I'm surprised how much color is need for the 360. I finally fine tuned the sharpness for PC/Game use at 70 and 57(same setting from my XBR3 works on this tv) for everything else.

Cnet settings are too bright also.
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post #53 of 272 Old 07-07-2011, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MUGEN View Post

Updated settings for the 46" and 360 settings added HERE. I'm surprised how much color is need for the 360. I finally fine tuned the sharpness for PC/Game use at 70 and 57(same setting from my XBR3 works on this tv) for everything else.

Cnet settings are too bright also.


CNET settings are too dull and made my TV like a cheap TV when i played Avatar blu ray and Netflix

your setting made my TV excellent .

what is your method of calibration? im thinking of using Disney WOW to try if it will make it better
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post #54 of 272 Old 07-07-2011, 09:32 PM
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CNET settings are too dull and made my TV like a cheap TV when i played Avatar blu ray and Netflix

I agree that CNET settings are a bit off for black levels, but dullness? Backlight Min to 1 is definitely the way to go if you have ambient sensor off, in my opinion. I think you are just use to a brighter picture, which isn't always better - especially on this set. If you've adjusted to having an overly bright calibration, going to an a more "accurate" calibration (highest i've seen an ISF calibator go on this set is backlight of 2) will seem dull at first. You gotta give yourself a day or two to adjust, then going back to your previous settings will show you just how overkill in brightness they were. I would recommend at least 30 minutes of viewing to at least allow your eyes to adjust to the difference in brightness. Same thing when walking into a dark room when you were in a bright room. I'm using Minimum with "Clear Plus" which makes it even lower luminance.

Do you watch in a bright room? If you watch in a dark room... I'm curious on what you think of my "Movies" settings. Give them at least 30 minutes so your eyes can adjust to the overall dimmer picture. I've talked with many AVSforum members and many of them claim they are their favorite.
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post #55 of 272 Old 07-07-2011, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

I agree that CNET settings are a bit off for black levels, but dullness? Backlight Min to 1 is definitely the way to go if you have ambient sensor off, in my opinion. I think you are just use to a brighter picture, which isn't always better - especially on this set. If you've adjusted to having an overly bright calibration, going to an a more "accurate" calibration (highest i've seen an ISF calibator go on this set is backlight of 2) will seem dull at first. You gotta give yourself a day or two to adjust, then going back to your previous settings will show you just how overkill in brightness they were. I would recommend at least 30 minutes of viewing to at least allow your eyes to adjust to the difference in brightness. Same thing when walking into a dark room when you were in a bright room. I'm using Minimum with "Clear Plus" which makes it even lower luminance.

Do you watch in a bright room? If you watch in a dark room... I'm curious on what you think of my "Movies" settings. Give them at least 30 minutes so your eyes can adjust to the overall dimmer picture. I've talked with many AVSforum members and many of them claim they are their favorite.

im using your settings now, but in Cinema mode, it is good so far and will give more time to be sure.

yes, i was watching in very bright room when i said the settings were very dull and made the TV look like cheap, should i increase backlit in the day and decrease at night?
I noticed when i changed settings back to Standard the PQ showed more contrast, depth, and colors, which impressed everyone. but when i used CNET setting my friends were not impressed by the TV. again, that was in very bright room.

what do you think?
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post #56 of 272 Old 07-07-2011, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishari84 View Post

im using your settings now, but in Cinema mode, it is good so far and will give more time to be sure.

yes, i was watching in very bright room when i said the settings were very dull and made the TV look like cheap, should i increase backlit in the day and decrease at night?
I noticed when i changed settings back to Standard the PQ became more vibrant and 3D-like depth. which impressed everyone. but when i used CNET setting my friends were not impressed by the TV. again, that was in very bright room.

what do you think?

Ah, it is not surprising if you feel my settings or CNET settings are a bit dull in a bright room. I suggestion upping the backlight to 1 or 2 in that case. I would not go higher than 2 though, as it seems to have wierd affects with Clear Plus on some CG scenes (really hard to explain). Using my settings, I would probably use a backlight of 2 in a very bright room (daytime, sun coming in windows), 1 for a decently lit room (windows shut, lights on full), and Min for a darker room (rooms with dimmer lights, or near pitch black room). I just use Minimum... lucky for me my Home Theater has very controlled lighting, with zero windows. 1 seems too bright for me.

I believe that "dullness" you were experiencing is the fact they set Brightness to 52, and then Gamma to +1. If I do this on my set, it easily makes blacks about 10-15% worse. 50 brightness with Gamma on 0 results in the darkest blacks possible, pair that with a low backlight and you even get better blacks.

If you are in Cinema scene it will result in the exact same picture as General if you are using the same settings.
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post #57 of 272 Old 07-08-2011, 08:15 AM
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Ah, it is not surprising if you feel my settings or CNET settings are a bit dull in a bright room. I suggestion upping the backlight to 1 or 2 in that case. I would not go higher than 2 though, as it seems to have wierd affects with Clear Plus on some CG scenes (really hard to explain). Using my settings, I would probably use a backlight of 2 in a very bright room (daytime, sun coming in windows), 1 for a decently lit room (windows shut, lights on full), and Min for a darker room (rooms with dimmer lights, or near pitch black room). I just use Minimum... lucky for me my Home Theater has very controlled lighting, with zero windows. 1 seems too bright for me.

I believe that "dullness" you were experiencing is the fact they set Brightness to 52, and then Gamma to +1. If I do this on my set, it easily makes blacks about 10-15% worse. 50 brightness with Gamma on 0 results in the darkest blacks possible, pair that with a low backlight and you even get better blacks.

If you are in Cinema scene it will result in the exact same picture as General if you are using the same settings.

CNET settings look pretty good to me as well. Hard to decide which I like better so I use both (cnet and my calibrated settings) do you have any 3D movie settings you would like to share? i'm not crazy how the 3D looks yet, probably something with my settings.
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post #58 of 272 Old 07-08-2011, 09:40 AM
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CNET settings look pretty good to me as well. Hard to decide which I like better so I use both (cnet and my calibrated settings) do you have any 3D movie settings you would like to share? i'm not crazy how the 3D looks yet, probably something with my settings.

I haven't bought 3D glasses yet. I do know you probably want to set depth to -1 to reduce crosstalk, and make sure local dimming is set to Standard (it's off by default).

After seeing the 3D on the D8000.. I know i'm going to be disappointed. That surely was the D8000's only strong point in my opinion.
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post #59 of 272 Old 07-08-2011, 09:45 AM
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I haven't bought 3D glasses yet. I do know you probably want to set depth to -1 to reduce crosstalk, and make sure local dimming is set to Standard (it's off by default).

After seeing the 3D on the D8000.. I know i'm going to be disappointed. That surely was the D8000's only strong point in my opinion.

Thank you for the quick reply, appreciate it.
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post #60 of 272 Old 07-08-2011, 11:20 AM
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CNET settings look pretty good to me as well. Hard to decide which I like better so I use both (cnet and my calibrated settings) do you have any 3D movie settings you would like to share? i'm not crazy how the 3D looks yet, probably something with my settings.
After going back and forth between CNET's picture settings and my calibrated settings I can now say my calibrated settings are much better. Thanks again to my calibrator. If anyone is interested in trying out my settings PM me and I will reply with them. Not sure I want to put them on here for everyone.
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