Passive FPR 3D ghosting problems in Interlace and Checkerboard - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 513 Old 07-15-2011, 09:53 AM
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According to the link you provided
"
Avatar: The Game Demo S-3D Support (Partial)

Avatar natively supports Anaglyph, interlaced, side by side, NVIDIA GeForce 3D Vision, Sensio, iZ3D, dual head, checkerboard, and RealD formats. It’s interesting that generic shutter glasses and Panasonic 3D HDTVs are not listed as an option, but we have to remember that this is the PC version, not console.
"
Checerboard and Real ID formats are different formats what I have been saying. If you are seing two side by side displays you are seing Real ID format and not checkerboard which consists of two 1960x540 fields (one for each eye each merged together just like a checkerboard which has red and black checkers. the checkerboard content is then transmitted as a single 1920x1080@60 2D buffer to the DLP 3D RP display
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post #32 of 513 Old 07-15-2011, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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My problem is with the checkerboard output LG has this color ghosting that I have not been able to remove using any kind of video adjustments, even trying out CNET calibrations did not help for checkerboard 3D. It's the worst kind of ghosting that a user can have because it is colored so from using 3D for so long this is hard for the brain to resolve the color mismatch. What I know is the other kind of ghosting that I've seen on the LG with grey translucent ghosting I can usually remove with sharpness to a fixed value.

The reason I know the technicians at LG can fix this is because when I change the sharpness values in Side by Side mode, there is no impact to the 3D effect so obviously they already calibrated it correctly therefore there is no need to work with Sharpness in Side by Side mode.
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post #33 of 513 Old 07-18-2011, 06:38 PM
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Ok, I'm considering getting one of these LG passive sets, just a little concerned about being able to use this for PC gaming. So from what I've gathered:

- With nVidia's 3DTV Play you can only get 1080p24 or 720p60 outputs. I presume this means a 1920x540 stereo image at 24Hz per eye or 1280x360 at 60Hz per eye, due to the TV's interleaved 3D image.

- If you use side-by-side, it'll effectively half your horizontal resolution, and because the passive sets show an interleaved image for 3D then your vertical resolution is also halved, i.e. with a 1080p SBS output you'll basically be seeing a stereo 960x540 image at 60Hz per eye (arguably better than the 720p60 3DTV Play option).

- If you use a checkerboard output, you'll end up with a stereo 1920x540 image at 60Hz per eye due to the TV's interleaved 3D image. This is the best conceivable 3D option for the TV, but suffers bad ghosting.

- If you use an interleaved output, you'll STILL end up with a stereo 1920x540 image at 60Hz per eye because the TV's 3D image in interleaved anyway, and there is the EDID fix which will (more or less) remove any ghosting issues.

So my questions are:
Assuming there was no ghosting to speak of, am I correct that there's no effective difference between the checkerboard and interleaved options, due to the TV's inherent interleaved 3D display?
And if so, and if the EDID fix works to remove ghosting with interleaved output, why do you even want to get checkerboard working? Surely you've got the best 3D output this TV is capable of anyway.

I would be very interested to know if any of my understanding or assumptions are wrong before I fork out for one of these TVs.

Cheers
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post #34 of 513 Old 07-19-2011, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphodalive View Post

Ok, I'm considering getting one of these LG passive sets, just a little concerned about being able to use this for PC gaming. So from what I've gathered:

- With nVidia's 3DTV Play you can only get 1080p24 or 720p60 outputs. I presume this means a 1920x540 stereo image at 24Hz per eye or 1280x360 at 60Hz per eye, due to the TV's interleaved 3D image.

- If you use side-by-side, it'll effectively half your horizontal resolution, and because the passive sets show an interleaved image for 3D then your vertical resolution is also halved, i.e. with a 1080p SBS output you'll basically be seeing a stereo 960x540 image at 60Hz per eye (arguably better than the 720p60 3DTV Play option).

- If you use a checkerboard output, you'll end up with a stereo 1920x540 image at 60Hz per eye due to the TV's interleaved 3D image. This is the best conceivable 3D option for the TV, but suffers bad ghosting.

- If you use an interleaved output, you'll STILL end up with a stereo 1920x540 image at 60Hz per eye because the TV's 3D image in interleaved anyway, and there is the EDID fix which will (more or less) remove any ghosting issues.

So my questions are:
Assuming there was no ghosting to speak of, am I correct that there's no effective difference between the checkerboard and interleaved options, due to the TV's inherent interleaved 3D display?
And if so, and if the EDID fix works to remove ghosting with interleaved output, why do you even want to get checkerboard working? Surely you've got the best 3D output this TV is capable of anyway.

I would be very interested to know if any of my understanding or assumptions are wrong before I fork out for one of these TVs.

Cheers

I can answer one of the q's for you.

The difference between 3dtvplay and 3dvision is massive, 3dtvplay using hdmi 1.4 and 3dvision uses checkerboard, now as checkerboard does'nt work correctly so far we have to use 3dtvplay 720p 60hz which has a much lower res than 1080p 60hz checkerboard but as we can't use this and i do'nt use 3dtvplay so in effect i find myself locked out of one of the 3 gaming stereoscopic softwares!

now as these tv's are fpr and there is image loss, when using 3dtvplay then there is more image loss than 720p due to the res being halfed ect so it has tobe 1080p for these passive tv's, there is image loss compared to a samsung at same res but at 1080p its hardly noticable, but at 720p the damage is massive!

I still 3d alot with my lf pasive and i still have a awsome time despite not using 3dvsisoons checkerboard.

Bugged Interleaved/checkerboard lg forum thread, please add your names.http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-fo...-lg-3dtvs.html
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post #35 of 513 Old 07-19-2011, 09:05 AM
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With 3D Vision You can send 720p/120 which alternate frame which gives you 720p/60 per eye. 3D vision does not support the TI Checkerboard format for use on 3D ready RP DLP TVs.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-about.html
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post #36 of 513 Old 07-20-2011, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphodalive View Post

Ok, I'm considering getting one of these LG passive sets, just a little concerned about being able to use this for PC gaming. So from what I've gathered:

- With nVidia's 3DTV Play you can only get 1080p24 or 720p60 outputs. I presume this means a 1920x540 stereo image at 24Hz per eye or 1280x360 at 60Hz per eye, due to the TV's interleaved 3D image.

- If you use side-by-side, it'll effectively half your horizontal resolution, and because the passive sets show an interleaved image for 3D then your vertical resolution is also halved, i.e. with a 1080p SBS output you'll basically be seeing a stereo 960x540 image at 60Hz per eye (arguably better than the 720p60 3DTV Play option).

- If you use a checkerboard output, you'll end up with a stereo 1920x540 image at 60Hz per eye due to the TV's interleaved 3D image. This is the best conceivable 3D option for the TV, but suffers bad ghosting.

- If you use an interleaved output, you'll STILL end up with a stereo 1920x540 image at 60Hz per eye because the TV's 3D image in interleaved anyway, and there is the EDID fix which will (more or less) remove any ghosting issues.

So my questions are:
Assuming there was no ghosting to speak of, am I correct that there's no effective difference between the checkerboard and interleaved options, due to the TV's inherent interleaved 3D display?
And if so, and if the EDID fix works to remove ghosting with interleaved output, why do you even want to get checkerboard working? Surely you've got the best 3D output this TV is capable of anyway.

I would be very interested to know if any of my understanding or assumptions are wrong before I fork out for one of these TVs.

Cheers

Hi zaphodalive,

Everything you said about the details of the resolution points are spot on. So lets say every time you use a those numbers that are farther away from the native resolution of lets say 1920x540 pixels per eye, then yes your chances of softness of picture quality, grain, and upscaling increase as you move further from the native resolution. That affects the final details you will see in terms of text readability and image quality.

The upside is at 1680x1050 is very playable using IZ3D drivers and using the scaling feature of the IZ3d drivers to output native mode works really well with no perceivable loss in image quality. This scaling features works twofold, it also helps increase the frame rate of games that can be bandwidth intensive and makes sure the pixel output match the FPR layer of the screen for 3D compatibility.

Again you are correct that Interleaved mode would be the best mode for this tv, but there are Nvidia 3d vision users that want to use checkerboard using nvidia drivers without third party support and cannot do so without the color ghosting that is discussed about here. 3d vision and 3DTV play are two different entities, the latter supports 1.4a HDMI frame-packing mode at two resolutions only. Whereas 3d vision is inherently supported in Nvidia's drivers and I hear they can mod the drivers for internal checkerboard support.

Finally, checkerboard and interleaved are two entire different patterns especially when talking about Passive screens because checkerboard is a 1920x1080 alternating square chess board grid so even though it finally outputs a full 60 fps output the lines will not match up to the final Interleaved line by line alignment that also reaches 60 fps. They both do output a maximum 1920x540 pixels but the grid and lines are placed differently. Therefore, you would lose detail twice for every line in checkerboard because of the black/white pattern.
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post #37 of 513 Old 07-20-2011, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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It's been a week since I sent the log to LG for further updates on this. I have not received a response yet from my contact so I'm assuming they are still looking into this. Otherwise, anyone that can replicate checkerboard AVATAR game color ghosting, please forward them this thread and maybe they will move this up the chain to fix.
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post #38 of 513 Old 07-20-2011, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguy3d View Post

Hi zaphodalive,

Everything you said about the details of the resolution points are spot on. So lets say every time you use a those numbers that are farther away from the native resolution of lets say 1920x540 pixels per eye, then yes your chances of softness of picture quality, grain, and upscaling increase as you move further from the native resolution. That affects the final details you will see in terms of text readability and image quality.

The upside is at 1680x1050 is very playable using IZ3D drivers and using the scaling feature of the IZ3d drivers to output native mode works really well with no perceivable loss in image quality. This scaling features works twofold, it also helps increase the frame rate of games that can be bandwidth intensive and makes sure the pixel output match the FPR layer of the screen for 3D compatibility.

Again you are correct that Interleaved mode would be the best mode for this tv, but there are Nvidia 3d vision users that want to use checkerboard using nvidia drivers without third party support and cannot do so without the color ghosting that is discussed about here. 3d vision and 3DTV play are two different entities, the latter supports 1.4a HDMI frame-packing mode at two resolutions only. Whereas 3d vision is inherently supported in Nvidia's drivers and I hear they can mod the drivers for internal checkerboard support.

Finally, checkerboard and interleaved are two entire different patterns especially when talking about Passive screens because checkerboard is a 1920x1080 alternating square chess board grid so even though it finally outputs a full 60 fps output the lines will not match up to the final Interleaved line by line alignment that also reaches 60 fps. They both do output a maximum 1920x540 pixels but the grid and lines are placed differently. Therefore, you would lose detail twice for every line in checkerboard because of the black/white pattern.

Wow thank you very much for the great response. I can't say I understand exactly what checkerboard is, so I'll take your word for it that you lose more detail with it.

What is your experience using an interleaved output with IZ3D at 1080p and the EDID fix? Are there any issues with it? Also if you can recommend a good piece of software from playing 3D blurays that would be great.

Thanks again.
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post #39 of 513 Old 07-20-2011, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I get 3% ghosting in Interleaved mode. My guide is needs to be updated with the new changes because I originally saw 10% ghosting when I first started using the TV. This is taking into account I am not having the EDID fix applied because I use AMD HD3D ouput for watching 3d movies in stereoscopic player. Just be aware my guide's calibration guide for LG will soon be updated for PC mode input and working with Standard and ISF Expert Mode. If the ghosting becomes too bad, then apply the EDID fix with inf from your tv that butmuncher found solution for. EDID fix causes AMD HD3D mode and 3DTV play to become disabled and loss of 1.4a support.

I was going to make a guide for 3d playback but its been delayed for now. I suggest looking at Corel, TMT, and PowerDVD, or Stereoscopic Player.
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post #40 of 513 Old 07-20-2011, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a possible reason for color ghosting in checkerboard on the LG TV. It talks about the rule to never scale a checkerboard image. Maybe LG is scaling the image everytime I use the Checkerboard 3D button.

http://www.tru3d.com/technology/3D_M...D-DLP%20Format
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post #41 of 513 Old 07-21-2011, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguy3d View Post

Here is a possible reason for color ghosting in checkerboard on the LG TV. It talks about the rule to never scale a checkerboard image. Maybe LG is scaling the image everytime I use the Checkerboard 3D button.

http://www.tru3d.com/technology/3D_M...D-DLP%20Format

Now that's a thought.
The last few days i've been making 3d interlaced wallpapers, it's been a proper ball ache as after i had converted sbs/over/under stereoscopic images to interlaced i then found that displaying them as a wallpaper gave the color bug or something that resembled it.
All day i spent messing around, by the looks of it windows does a conversion or scale that destroys the 3d image, still 3d but with massive color bugs.

I did'nt mess around all day for nothing!

Using tridef/3dtvplay i captured some 3d images, i then used " Stereophoto maker " to make my interlaced images, saved them as .png and then used a program called " automatic wallpaper changer " which is an alternitive to windows wallper software.
I now have working interlaced 3d wallpapers, if you would like to test i have included them all, i only have 2 games so far so used them and a few images from the net that i allso converted.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7P3PWGX2

If you add these images as wallpaper using windows then you will see that it resembles the colorbug, but if you use Automatic wallpaper changer then the colorbug has gone!

Desktop 3d images on passive screen are one of the best things i've ever seen on a pc.
If you use awc you can change the time between slides, i have around 15 images working as a slide show that looks really cool especially when ya mate says whats wrong with ya desktop and you hand the glasses over.


Allso Skyguy3d do you know any1 or anygood forums that could help find whats in the edid extension bloc that stops interlaced from working as all we need really is a fixed edid with it's extension bloc intact which would give us interlaced and hdmi 1.4.
The fix is there for us on a plate for interlaced and 1.4, we need some help.

Bugged Interleaved/checkerboard lg forum thread, please add your names.http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-fo...-lg-3dtvs.html
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post #42 of 513 Old 07-21-2011, 02:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Man, you are are on to something again. Using 3D wallpapers on my desktop is the best thing ever but I haven't used it since I started using the LG passive. Can you please write up step by step instructions on how you created the color bug when creating the wallpaper, this is crucial for looking into why we have it in the first place. When it did the conversion, did you have the EDID fix in place?

Eventually, I would hope that the pictures we can upload are displayed on forums as true interleaved images just like youtube can be playbacked as interleaved format and be able to look at the 3D pictures or movies while in the same forum. *hint*hint

For pros in 3d, you may have to ask the guys in MTBS3D and specifically who know more about interleaved image creation itself. I would send this information to IZ3D and Tridef too because I know Tridef have a working arrangement with LG for best quality on there LG 23" 3D passive display called the D2342P-PN. You would have to go through email with Tridef on this end. Let me find out how to reproduce this and I will send it myself and see what they say too.

For the inf mod, I'm not sure on that one. Best way is to just post the problem as a new topic for others to see.

I am putting a link to your nvidia thread in the first post here so they can see the pictures you hosted and the problems you have too.
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post #43 of 513 Old 07-21-2011, 03:37 AM
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There's not much to say about reproducing the colorbug, windows 7 scales its wallpaper where as automatic wallpaper changer does'nt hence the reason the interlaced 3d image works with no colorbug.

I did try with and without the fix, no good without the fix.

Shame tridefs lg software won't start, maybe if we find somebody with that monitor that is willing to give us thier edid then maybe we can try tridefs lg software out to see if we can have work9ing interlaced with no interlaced edid fix.

Bugged Interleaved/checkerboard lg forum thread, please add your names.http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-fo...-lg-3dtvs.html
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post #44 of 513 Old 07-21-2011, 03:45 AM
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Lol, my edid fix does more than meets the eye hehe.

check out tailslol with his D2342P-PN
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=200026

Bugged Interleaved/checkerboard lg forum thread, please add your names.http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-fo...-lg-3dtvs.html
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post #45 of 513 Old 07-21-2011, 04:32 AM - Thread Starter
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The person named thevrguy confirmed the ghosting on Vizio TV but it is non-existent on Hyundai 46 polarized monitor here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...292590&page=34

Taking that into account, we could probably use the Hyundai inf as well.
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post #46 of 513 Old 07-21-2011, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguy3d View Post

The person named thevrguy confirmed the ghosting on Vizio TV but it is non-existent on Hyundai 46 polarized monitor here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...292590&page=34

Taking that into account, we could probably use the Hyundai inf as well.

So many passive 3dtv's have this issue, that really does suck because what the hell did the lg technitions use to test checkerboard with in thier labs, surely they did'nt release these tv's with faulty checkerboard support, or did they, different brands and different models have the same issue, there is something going on!

I'm sure if the manufactuers fixed this issue in a firmware update it sure as hell would'nt be coming the ld950's way thats a 2010 long forgotten model.



Quote:
Originally Posted by thevrguy View Post

I work in a visualization lab and we got one of these hoping to use it for our stereoscopic 3D stuff. We mostly run PC applications and use an NVidia quadro card to generate the interleaved stereo image. We've only had mixed success 3d using the Vizio. If we send a side-by-side stereo pair and put the TV in 3d SBS mode, it works great. However, if we send an already interleaved stereo pair to the TV (leaving TV in 2D mode) we don't get good stereo.

It almost seems that there's a sub-pixel shift so instead of the Left eye getting R1G1B1 & Right eye getting R2G2B2, they instead G1B1R2 and G2B2R1. The result is semi-3D with severe tinted ghosting. If you don't have an NVidia quadro and want to test this out, simply try youtube 3D (google "youtube3d") and select Interleaved rows.

It would really be great if Vizio could solve this. We've been using an old Hyundai S465D that works well, but their max size is 46". We haven't tried LG yet to see if they have the same issue.


I allso thought when i first got the ld950 that it seemed as if the horizontal pixels are shifted, when using checkerboard on a samsung c750 the checkerboard text on 2d things was readable, but on this lg its a mess, now i do'nt know if this is down to losing the res due to passive.

Bugged Interleaved/checkerboard lg forum thread, please add your names.http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-fo...-lg-3dtvs.html
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post #47 of 513 Old 07-21-2011, 05:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, since the best way to analyze the color ghosting bug is to look at each individual EDID from across the range of these Passive Polarized 3D TVs or LCD. The more inputs gathered, the better chance someone can identify what is causing this color ghosting.

Here are the steps in order to gather the EDID of the TV you have and then convert the file to an inf file so others can use.

Remember that the EDID for the VGA, DVI, and HDMI connections will all be different so the best fix is to gather all possible EDIDs and I will keep them all organized here together. Also, each type of connection EDID will probably not be compatible to other outputs so just be aware of this.

Obtain the Phoenix EDID Designer software here
http://www.softsea.com/review/Phoeni...-Designer.html
Next get the Monitor Asset manager here
http://www.entechtaiwan.com/files/moninfo.exe

1. First step is to run the Phoenix EDID software and click on Extract Registry EDID and click on the listed ID.
2. Next save the EDID as a dat file to a location you can retrieve.
3. Now run the Monitor Asset manager and click on open to retrieve the file you created from the dat.
4. With this file open, you now need to click on file- create inf and save this file to upload to a website hosting.
5. Repeat this again for the other outputs, such as HDMI, DVI, and VGA.

The next section will be listing all the EDIDs with their corresponding outputs I have gathered.

1. 55LW5600 see post 64 link
2. Zalman 22 inch zm-220w Click save link as
3. LG D2342P-PN d2342p-pn
The EDIDs that have no color ghosting are the best EDID to gather first in this case because they will be the ones to fix the problem. Right now, I am looking for the Zalman 22 and 24 LCD, Hyundai S465D, LG D2342P-PN, and I can supply my 55LW5600 inf here. Also, butmuncher, can you give the link with the working EDID next.
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post #48 of 513 Old 07-21-2011, 05:38 AM
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Can you help in the seach for a checkerboard video, even if its just 2 seconds long, as my ld950 will play checkerboard through usb , if we can find 1 that will give us another source to try checkerboard with.

Bugged Interleaved/checkerboard lg forum thread, please add your names.http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-fo...-lg-3dtvs.html
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post #49 of 513 Old 07-21-2011, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguy3d View Post

Ok, since the best way to analyze the color ghosting bug is to look at each individual EDID from across the range of these Passive Polarized 3D TVs or LCD. The more inputs gathered, the better chance someone can identify what is causing this color ghosting.

Here are the steps in order to gather the EDID of the TV you have and then convert the file to an inf file so others can use.

Remember that the EDID for the VGA, DVI, and HDMI connections will all be different so the best fix is to gather all possible EDIDs and I will keep them all organized here together. Also, each type of connection EDID will probably not be compatible to other outputs so just be aware of this.

Obtain the Phoenix EDID Designer software here
http://www.softsea.com/review/Phoeni...-Designer.html
Next get the Monitor Asset manager here
http://www.entechtaiwan.com/files/moninfo.exe

1. First step is to run the Phoenix EDID software and click on Extract Registry EDID and click on the listed ID.
2. Next save the EDID as a dat file to a location you can retrieve.
3. Now run the Monitor Asset manager and click on open to retrieve the file you created from the dat.
4. With this file open, you now need to click on file- create inf and save this file to upload to a website hosting.
5. Repeat this again for the other outputs, such as HDMI, DVI, and VGA.

The next section will be listing all the EDIDs with their corresponding outputs I have gathered.

1.
2.
3.

The EDIDs that have no color ghosting are the best EDID to gather first in this case because they will be the ones to fix the problem.

Cool

Bugged Interleaved/checkerboard lg forum thread, please add your names.http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-fo...-lg-3dtvs.html
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post #50 of 513 Old 07-21-2011, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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With the Zalman inf, it's possible to use the Nvidia drivers that support line-interleaved mode without third party support.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/stereo-...96-driver.html
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post #51 of 513 Old 07-21-2011, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by skyguy3d View Post

With the Zalman inf, it's possible to use the Nvidia drivers that support line-interleaved mode without third party support.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/stereo-...96-driver.html

Have you tested this as working?

I'm looking for a inf but not finding much, do you have one?

This is intresting!

Bugged Interleaved/checkerboard lg forum thread, please add your names.http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-fo...-lg-3dtvs.html
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post #52 of 513 Old 07-21-2011, 03:02 PM
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What you like at creating video's skyguy3d?
If your any good i'll upload some checkerboard 3d images or you can create your own, the images need tobe turned into a hd mkv file as my ld950 supports checkerboard through usb and i think it would be a good idea to try a different input source to test cb with.

Bugged Interleaved/checkerboard lg forum thread, please add your names.http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-fo...-lg-3dtvs.html
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post #53 of 513 Old 07-21-2011, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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No, I don't have inf from Zalman and I have not tried it yet. Also I think it's a good idea to check on checkerboard video through the usb, except I don't know of any checkerboard videos or how to make them. So far, you have confirmed that running line-interleaved is working well on VGA right, so does checkerboard work similar on VGA?
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post #54 of 513 Old 07-21-2011, 06:08 PM
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The 3D checkerboard video format for DLP 3D ready RP TVs is contained in a standaard 1920x100p/60 digital buffer. It is not transmitted via any anylog formats such as VGA. It is not to be confused with checkerboard display content used by some TV manufacturers such as LG to assist in calibrating the contrast 1080p TVs
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post #55 of 513 Old 07-21-2011, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by walford View Post

The 3D checkerboard video format for DLP 3D ready RP TVs is contained in a standaard 1920x100p/60 digital buffer. It is not transmitted via any anylog formats such as VGA. It is not to be confused with checkerboard display content used by some TV manufacturers such as LG to assist in calibrating the contrast 1080p TVs

Do you know any formats or samples we can use to test for line-interleaved and checkerboard on the HDMI input?

I forgot that checkerboard only works through the HDMI input.
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post #56 of 513 Old 07-22-2011, 07:58 AM
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Regretfully since I currently do not have a 3D capable TV I do keep track of actual sample formats.
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post #57 of 513 Old 07-23-2011, 01:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Now that's a thought.
The last few days i've been making 3d interlaced wallpapers, it's been a proper ball ache as after i had converted sbs/over/under stereoscopic images to interlaced i then found that displaying them as a wallpaper gave the color bug or something that resembled it.
All day i spent messing around, by the looks of it windows does a conversion or scale that destroys the 3d image, still 3d but with massive color bugs.

I did'nt mess around all day for nothing!

Using tridef/3dtvplay i captured some 3d images, i then used " Stereophoto maker " to make my interlaced images, saved them as .png and then used a program called " automatic wallpaper changer " which is an alternitive to windows wallper software.
I now have working interlaced 3d wallpapers, if you would like to test i have included them all, i only have 2 games so far so used them and a few images from the net that i allso converted.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7P3PWGX2

If you add these images as wallpaper using windows then you will see that it resembles the colorbug, but if you use Automatic wallpaper changer then the colorbug has gone!

I had to see the color bug that you described and yes I can confirm. I just tested out my own 3d wallpapers and just like you said, windows wallpaper does something strange that creates this color bug even though I'm not supposed to have it when I view it directly after making the wallpaper in Stereo photomaker. You can only see this color ghosting when windows adds the wallpaper to the desktop. Then I tried the automatic wallpaper and it doesn't have the color ghosting for the same image.

What I found interesting is that both images look nearly identical except when viewed with the 3d glasses, show the problem.
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post #58 of 513 Old 07-23-2011, 02:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright, I now have two full ways of verifying this color ghosting bug for Checkerboard 3D on the LG. What they both show that during the ghosting test, they pass the greyscale ghosting but do not pass the color portion of the ghosting test. That means LG calibrated this test with greyscale only and needs to add on color ghosting test to see this.

Program required: Stereoscopic Player
http://3dtv.at/Downloads/StereoscopicPlayer173_en.msi

Test #1: Download test clip 1 Link to clip http://www.box.net/shared/lpe35vy1h8

1. Run the 3d player with Viewing Method 3D Ready DLP-TV
2. Play movie clip and pause it.
3. Press the 3D button on the LG remote and select the checkerboard pattern.
4. Notice with the left eye only watching with 3D glasses you should not see anything that should be on the second half bottom of the screen. Except you do and its only the Red, Green, Blue, colors from the "Image from Right Eye". That's the color ghosting confirmed right there.
5. Turn off the 3D button now.
6. If I switch the Viewing method to Row Interlaced, Left Line Top and view this now with the left eye only watching with 3D glasses everything on the bottom row should be black completely. (Assuming your calibrations are all correct)
This proves color is the main component that is incorrectly showing through both eyes in checkerboard.

Test #2 Download test clip 2 link here http://www.websaitti.com/kuvat/3dtv/3d_crosstalk_test_02.wmv


1. Run the 3d player with Viewing Method 3D Ready DLP-TV
2. Press the checkerboard button on LG remote and play clip 2.
3. Notice this time through clip you must use the right eye lens of the glasses only and watch the clip completely.
4. You will notice that the right eye with glasses only cannot see the numbers for Grey, but will see them for all the colors, Red, Blue, Green.
That is the ghosting problem, this test is to see if there is color rejection but it does not pass the checkerboard test.
5. Turn off 3D on the remote.
6. Now switch the Viewing Method to Row Interlaced, Left Line Top and again using the Right eye lens only you will see that all the numbers in the colors will disappear which proves the problem is with checkerboard 3D format only. No numbers means there is no ghosting so now I have a definitive way of testing for color ghosting.
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post #59 of 513 Old 07-23-2011, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguy3d View Post
Alright, I now have two full ways of verifying this color ghosting bug for Checkerboard 3D on the LG. What they both show that during the ghosting test, they pass the greyscale ghosting but do not pass the color portion of the ghosting test. That means LG calibrated this test with greyscale only and needs to add on color ghosting test to see this.

Program required: Stereoscopic Player
http://3dtv.at/Downloads/StereoscopicPlayer173_en.msi

Test #1: Download test clip 1 Link to clip http://www.box.net/shared/lpe35vy1h8

1. Run the 3d player with Viewing Method 3D Ready DLP-TV
2. Play movie clip and pause it.
3. Press the 3D button on the LG remote and select the checkerboard pattern.
4. Notice with the left eye only watching with 3D glasses you will should not see anything that should be on the second half bottom of the screen. Except you do and its only the Red, Green, Blue, colors from the "Image from Right Eye". That's the color ghosting confirmed right there.
5. Turn off the 3D button now.
6. If I switch the Viewing method to Row Interlaced, Left Line Top and view this now with the left eye only watching with 3D glasses everything on the bottom row should be black completely. (Assuming your calibrations are all correct)
This proves color is the main component that is incorrectly showing through both eyes in checkerboard.

Test #2 Download test clip 2 link here http://www.websaitti.com/kuvat/3dtv/3d_crosstalk_test_02.wmv


1. Run the 3d player with Viewing Method 3D Ready DLP-TV
2. Press the checkerboard button on LG remote and play clip 2.
3. Notice this time through clip you must use the right eye lens of the glasses only and watch the clip completely.
4. You will notice that the right eye with glasses only cannot see the numbers for Grey, but will see them for all the colors, Red, Blue, Green.
That is the ghosting problem, this test is to see if you there is color rejection but it does not pass the checkerboard test.
5. Turn off 3D on the remote.
6. Now switch the Viewing Method to Row Interlaced, Left Line Top and again using the Right eye lens only you will see that all the numbers in the colors will disappear which proves the problem is with checkerboard 3D format only. No numbers means there is no ghosting so now I have a definitive way of testing for color ghosting.
That's cool.
Come monday i'm goin tp phone for a service call and see what the lg technition has to say about this.

StereoPhoto maker has a big brother call StereoVideo maker, this outputs a nice working 3d interlaced video, shame about how terrible my fps is when using fraps to record with.

Bugged Interleaved/checkerboard lg forum thread, please add your names.http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-fo...-lg-3dtvs.html
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post #60 of 513 Old 07-24-2011, 05:46 AM
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Mrhopefull over at avforums is stating that his lg ld920 passive has no colorbug and works perfect!

I've asked him a few q's so will need to wait on replys, i'm hoping he does have it working over hdmi with no modifying but alas i'm pretty sure he will say vga.
Untill there is proof of this though i cannot find myself believing it, i really do need solid proof !
Avforums is strange, if your signed in the first post will be at top of first page, if your not signed in it will be on the last page at the bottom.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-l...rs-thread.html

Bugged Interleaved/checkerboard lg forum thread, please add your names.http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-fo...-lg-3dtvs.html
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