Passive FPR 3D ghosting problems in Interlace and Checkerboard - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 513 Old 08-08-2011, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerempek View Post

Hi,

i have LG LW 450x series TV.

i have HIS ATI HD6850 graphic carded PC.

i have 1.4 hdmi cable.

how can i play 3D mkv files on LG LW450x series from my pc ?

is there a way for it ?

i try to read the posts before but they are a lot techinal for me.

Hi,
You install a codec pack like klite or vlc ect, play the sbs 3d mkv file like you woul d any other video file and select sbs on your tv with the controller 3d button.

Bugged Interleaved/checkerboard lg forum thread, please add your names.http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-fo...-lg-3dtvs.html
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post #122 of 513 Old 08-08-2011, 07:07 PM
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According to the Nvidia 3DTV Play FAQ TVs using passive polarized glasses are supported via HDMI 1.4a, is the LGV 1.4a certified? Are you using a 1.4a certified cable? http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answe...2570/related/1 Nvidia has long supported interlaced 3D on their on their Quadro (professional) series graphic cards. But these can not be used for 3D gameplay as far as I know and are quite expensive. Here's a good article on the Quadros http://3dvision-blog.com/tag/quad-buffer-opengl-stereo/ Looking at 3D Vision the FAQ only shows these supported modes http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answe...2566/related/1
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post #123 of 513 Old 08-08-2011, 07:19 PM
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Here's an interesting post on the Nvidia forumns, where a guy talks about editing the registry to switch from vertical to horizontal interlace. The reasaon I mention it, is because maybe you could edit the registry to change the Nvidia defaults in checkerboard? http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=79163 I feel your pain, due to the fact I had the LG 23 inch passive monitor, it was great, but too small. While the 3D was great on the playstation, I found myself running into the same problems as you guys when trying to PC game. I returned it, and for the time being I am enjoying 720P Projector gaming. If you guys get it worked out I'd happily buy a LG passive tv.
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post #124 of 513 Old 08-08-2011, 07:42 PM
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No idea if this would work on the LG, but some guys using 3DTV Play are using checkerboard successfully, using a spoofed hybrid EDID combined from a Samsung plasma and a Samsung DLP. http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=191819 You should be able to open the .inf file that you previously made and this one, then do a side by side comparison that might raise a red flag before trying. For more information Wikipedia and Microsoft both have some great info on EDIDs and .inf files showing what each line is for.
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post #125 of 513 Old 08-08-2011, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DNewb View Post
Here's an interesting post on the Nvidia forumns, where a guy talks about editing the registry to switch from vertical to horizontal interlace. The reasaon I mention it, is because maybe you could edit the registry to change the Nvidia defaults in checkerboard? http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=79163 I feel your pain, due to the fact I had the LG 23 inch passive monitor, it was great, but too small. While the 3D was great on the playstation, I found myself running into the same problems as you guys when trying to PC game. I returned it, and for the time being I am enjoying 720P Projector gaming. If you guys get it worked out I'd happily buy a LG passive tv.
Yeah, someone with Nvidia card can try this. I can't do this myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DNewb;

What 3D modes are supported by NVIDIA 3DTV Play?

3DTV Play supports the HDMI 1.4 3D formats:

· For Blu-ray 3D and movie content

o Frame Packing 1080p @ 23.98Hz

o Frame Packing 1080p @ 24Hz

· For game content:

o Frame Packing 720p @ 50Hz

o Frame Packing 720p @ 59.94Hz

o Frame Packing 720p @ 60Hz
Yes, I'm using a 1.4 HDMI cable connected to a 1.4 TV, the only problem is the playing at 720p is not the best way to play on a passive tv in frame-packing mode.
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post #126 of 513 Old 08-08-2011, 07:56 PM
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Here's another link in the 3DTV Play FAQ I found suggesting the supported modes in 1.4a http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answe...2568/related/1 Interesting is that it shows only 720P for gaming, but does show 1080i @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz
side by side horizontal for broadcast.
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post #127 of 513 Old 08-08-2011, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DNewb View Post
No idea if this would work on the LG, but some guys using 3DTV Play are using checkerboard successfully, using a spoofed hybrid EDID combined from a Samsung plasma and a Samsung DLP. http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=191819 You should be able to open the .inf file that you previously made and this one, then do a side by side comparison that might raise a red flag before trying. For more information Wikipedia and Microsoft both have some great info on EDIDs and .inf files showing what each line is for.
This is where the Zalman Nvidia driver could potentially be used for Passive tvs.
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post #128 of 513 Old 08-08-2011, 08:03 PM
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One thing with the LG D2342P-PN 23 inch passive monitor that I hated was that if I slouched just the tiniest bit the 3D effect became whacked. I'm hoping with the larger pixels on the TVs that the viewing angle is much more forgiving. Do you guys find that the viewing angle is good horizontally as well as vertically?
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post #129 of 513 Old 08-08-2011, 08:19 PM
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Unfortunately seeing as I have an Nvidia card, I haven't spent anytime looking for AMD solutions. During my time with my LG monitor and trying to get it to play nice with 3D Vision and TriDef I started to get the impression that if a person had an AMD graphics card everything would be 3Dtastic. It seemed that the passive solution in 3d offered far more brightness and colors while I was using the TriDef. Being that I didn't have Nvidia glasses at the time I didn't try 3D Vision, but I did use the 3DTV Play trial to enable 120hz. Now that I'm using the projector and 3D Vision I find the colors not even half as vibrant and the pop/depth not as great in some games like Metro 2033. Although the ghosting and artifacts are pretty much non existant.
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post #130 of 513 Old 08-08-2011, 08:37 PM
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Another option for Nvidia users that want to force resolutions, refresh rates, gamma and color corrections, is to use Riva Tuner. I know that some people are using this with their projectors and iZ3D to force 120hz in fullscreen when the iZ3D software is not allowing it. Maybe it could be used to remedy the checkerboard color problems? Maybe there's a similar program for AMD? Ever hear of MSI Afterburner? It's powered by Riva Tuner! Here's an FAQ for Riva Tuner http://www.guru3d.com/category/rivatunerfaq/ Here's a Tweak Guide showing a little about Riva Tuner http://www.tweakguides.com/NVFORCE_10.html Here's a link to the Riva Tuner Homepage/Download http://www.guru3d.com/index.php?page=rivatuner
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post #131 of 513 Old 08-08-2011, 08:52 PM
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I know that Riva Tuner used to work for ATI cards, so I looked around and found a AMD version of Riva Tuner from Guru3D called ATI tray tools. I assume they split the software due to the growing differences between the AMD and Nvidia cards, it's basically the same from looking at the description. Hopefully you could use it to work out some of the AMD issues with your LG. Here's a link to the Homepage/Download http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=733
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post #132 of 513 Old 08-08-2011, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DNewb View Post

One thing with the LG D2342P-PN 23 inch passive monitor that I hated was that if I slouched just the tiniest bit the 3D effect became whacked. I'm hoping with the larger pixels on the TVs that the viewing angle is much more forgiving. Do you guys find that the viewing angle is good horizontally as well as vertically?

It has more due to the tolerance for manufacturing precision is more relaxed when building the FPR layer for larger screens than they are for smaller monitors so it creates the combination of lowering the viewing angle and also cause more ghosting when moving beyond the filters axis. Viewing angle horizontal is very good, vertical can break the 3d effect but is more relaxed when the screen is larger and increases the viewing angle in proportion to size. Some people with the TV sets have set it up so you can watch it laying in a bed and still have the 3D effect shown. If you still had the monitor, a good test for viewing angle is to use Test clip #1 and use one eye to measure the point where the numbers appear while changing your viewpoint. Basic rule of thumb for large screen passive tv is to keep the screen level from top to bottom somewhere your eyes meet to maintain 3D.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DNewb View Post

Unfortunately seeing as I have an Nvidia card, I haven't spent anytime looking for AMD solutions. During my time with my LG monitor and trying to get it to play nice with 3D Vision and TriDef I started to get the impression that if a person had an AMD graphics card everything would be 3Dtastic. It seemed that the passive solution in 3d offered far more brightness and colors while I was using the TriDef. Being that I didn't have Nvidia glasses at the time I didn't try 3D Vision, but I did use the 3DTV Play trial to enable 120hz. Now that I'm using the projector and 3D Vision I find the colors not even half as vibrant and the pop/depth not as great in some games like Metro 2033. Although the ghosting and artifacts are pretty much non existant.

AMD still has work to do with HD3D, so having 3D companies like TriDef and IZ3D is a necessary part of using 3D today because it allows more types of displays to be supported and increases the chance for 3D recognition. Nvidia has more mature support for shutter because their expertise is defining 3d using shutter technology in an all in one solution. Once all the players have hit their notes in sequence then maybe Microsoft can put a solution out for 3D gaming standard.
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post #133 of 513 Old 08-08-2011, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DNewb View Post

I know that Riva Tuner used to work for ATI cards, so I looked around and found a AMD version of Riva Tuner from Guru3D called ATI tray tools. I assume they split the software due to the growing differences between the AMD and Nvidia cards, it's basically the same from looking at the description. Hopefully you could use it to work out some of the AMD issues with your LG. Here's a link to the Homepage/Download http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=733

This I will have to try with HD3D mode and see if it makes any difference. Thanks, long time since I used this program.
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post #134 of 513 Old 08-09-2011, 02:36 AM
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SkyGuy3d & Butmuncher,

Sorry for the lack of feedback recently, my MSI HD6950 2Gb TwinFrozr III decided to die on me quite suddenly the other day during a game of L4D2 while running Tridef in interleaved mode. Probably (hopefully) no correlation there, just chance. I have an RMA in process on the thing at the moment but I'm not in a position to test "anything" right now :/
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post #135 of 513 Old 08-09-2011, 03:52 AM
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Out of curiosity, what is the general consensus for who is superior in terms of 3d flexibility? AMD or nVidia?

As far as I can tell, they both have their hiccups, but I see some people saying "I should have bought ATI" and others saying "I should have bought nVidia".

I'm reading also that Crossfire support is fairly non-existent, that nVidia does support SLI, but if looking at purely from a Passive 3D point of view (LG TV's), would there be any reason to go nVidia considering theirs is propriety tech, relies on shutter glasses and thus 120hz screens, but CAN still use TriDef / IZ3d for interleaving, etc?
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post #136 of 513 Old 08-09-2011, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Subv3rse View Post

Out of curiosity, what is the general consensus for who is superior in terms of 3d flexibility? AMD or nVidia?

As far as I can tell, they both have their hiccups, but I see some people saying "I should have bought ATI" and others saying "I should have bought nVidia".

I'm reading also that Crossfire support is fairly non-existent, that nVidia does support SLI, but if looking at purely from a Passive 3D point of view (LG TV's), would there be any reason to go nVidia considering theirs is propriety tech, relies on shutter glasses and thus 120hz screens, but CAN still use TriDef / IZ3d for interleaving, etc?

That's a bummer about your card :'(.
At this moment in time it does'nt really matter who your next card is from, hd3d/3dtvplay are crap anyways but that's my opinion .

Well you can't use sli with iz3d or tridef so that would only leave you with 3dvisions checkerboard so then if the tv you have has dodgy checkerboard then your just sli'ing with a crappy image, is it worth it?

A few weeks ago i nearly got another 470 for sli but after a good hard think i decided it was'nt worth the £170 becasue i can't use checkerboard and it's rare for me to play a game in 2d now, it's 3d or the highway

You never did get a pic up showing us what your bad 3d image looked like, when we have reports of this type of issue it's a good idea to document it with pictures, if you can find the time to upload a pic of your bad 3d in the future i'd be very gratefull.

Bugged Interleaved/checkerboard lg forum thread, please add your names.http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-fo...-lg-3dtvs.html
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post #137 of 513 Old 08-09-2011, 06:15 AM
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Yeah, sorry about that. Didn't really see the point as it you'll see:

This is BEFORE the EDID Fix, Interleaved (Reverse), Picture through left lens:

http://www.mediafire.com/i/?d3ve65s2d29mk6x (direct link)


This is AFTER the EDID Fix, Interleaved (Reverse), Picture through left lens:

http://www.mediafire.com/i/?bs3pyjldd7n1vyo (direct link)
(Timing is slightly off on taking the snap, but you should be able to see there's no discernible difference with this to the pre-EDID Override.)

Good luck spotting the difference!

On that note, this is only running with HDMI - Wasn't able to test with DSUB at this point because, until today, I didn't have a DSUB cable available to me. Of course, now, I don't even have a working graphics card :/

Outputs HAVE been tested between HDMI1 labeled as PC, Blank, Game. Picture settings have been tested, as requested (ISF Expert etc inclusive). Absolutely NOTHING seems to make a difference.

The ONLY thing I would say is that when the TV itself is used to process fake3d (2d-3d image conversion), it crops the picture slightly top and bottom. Could it be that the interlace pattern isn't actually aligned properly?

I question this only because of the post I just read about nVidia's ability to alter the pattern reference via the registry, and no idea if ATI has this functionality.

Finally, there is no difference between Interlaced or Interlaced (Reverse), except that Interlace (Reverse) has 3d going the right way, standard interlace is inverted 3d.

I DID try the various other options too, pretty much every one of them, Hyundai, Samsung, etc - with the only result in them either flat out not working, or displaying the same problem as standard interlace.

Now like I said, I managed to get HD3D, crap as it is, to fill the screen without cropping via the underscan / overscan settings set to 0%, so I can only conclude, from my own limited experience, that perhaps it is something to do with the polarized grid being out of line compared to the drivers interleaving grid.

Think I answered all questions there - I've been trying everything referenced throughout, in between getting absolutely hammered this weekend gone and then my card blowing up So thanks for all the help so far.

Really hope someone manages to figure out where I'm going wrong because it's bugging me now!

Will attempt the DSUB conn when I get a working card but Scan have got a 10day RMA period and I won't be able to send it out till tomorrow.

Hence my question between brands because I'm seriously considering simply buying another card (HD6970 or GTX570) then selling the RMA'd card as it'll be a brand spanking new MSI HD6950 2Gb Twin Frozr III when it comes back, rather than wait about 2 weeks, lol.

Skyguy3d - You asked me a while back about the firmware revision for the LG LW450U - It's the stock that was shipped; at this stage LG aren't offering any firmware updates on their website (that I've been able to find anyway)
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post #138 of 513 Old 08-09-2011, 09:33 AM
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The verdict is still out on the whole Nvidia vs AMD 3D gaming debate. The holdback for 3D gaming is that Nvidia Quadro and AMD FirePro 3D (previously ATI FireGL) are their lucrative professional graphic lines that they want to keep the profits rolling in from. Nvidia has hindered 3D gaming by not offering Open Gl and Quad buffering support, but that may be changing in the future with AMD's announcements offering this support. http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/gra...d-talks-hd3d/1 I had at first thought AMD might be 3Dtastic, but from what I've read recently it's just about as buggy atm. Hopefully this will change due to AMD working with 3D software/hardware vendors to improve the HD3D experience for gamers.
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post #139 of 513 Old 08-09-2011, 09:41 AM
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The biggest news is the announcement yesterday of the new OpenGL 4.2 Specification and Nvidias/AMDs coinciding announcement of their release of new drivers supporting the new OpenGL 4.2 Specification.
http://www.opengl.org/ This will hopefully lead to better 3D game/engine development.
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post #140 of 513 Old 08-09-2011, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subv3rse; View Post

The ONLY thing I would say is that when the TV itself is used to process fake3d (2d-3d image conversion), it crops the picture slightly top and bottom. Could it be that the interlace pattern isn't actually aligned properly?

Bingo, in the 55LW5600 owners thread here, this was an issue back when using the 3.00 firmware and it wasn't until a later firmware that they have remove this underscanned cropping in 2d-3d conversion. They did this to create a higher sense of depth in for the 3d conversion but they fixed this in a later firmware so that the 2d-3d conversion works in a full screen output. It doesn't necessarily mean this is why your interleaved is broken but it does say where along the firmware is in relation to the board here in avs. Can you ask the LG tech support to see if these firmware are compatible to yours? You need a newer firmware.

Your picture shows clear color ghosting. Basically when that is fixed, then you can turn up the separation 10 fold and still not see ghosting. When you have the color ghosting, even small changes in separation cause the picture color shifts.
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post #141 of 513 Old 08-09-2011, 11:02 AM
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Well that's something I can get my teeth into at least; I'll give them a ring and see if they can help me. Hopefully I won't have to speak to some script monkey who doesn't really know the word "interlace" means :P Though I haven't dealt with LG tech support at all before and from what I've read, they seem to be pretty ok.

Will post updates as I get them for public reference!
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post #142 of 513 Old 08-09-2011, 11:22 AM
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Ok, I'm absolutely stunned.

LG Tech Support has just made my #1 "bloody well done" list!

Literally got off the phone to the fellow within about 10mins; he says he has heard of the issue himself, checked his DB, there IS a firmware update available but it's a specific fix and therefore not available for public download (which, for that very reason I WON'T be posting online the firmware update when I receive it), however it should arrive on CD (to copy to a flash drive and update) within the next 2-3 days.

Which will be a damn sight faster than I get my graphics card back :/ BUT, once I'm fully operational again I'll absolutely post feedback on it.

This fix, the fellow believes, should address both the ghosting AND the cropping as you mentioned SkyGuy3d. The fellow also admitted that whilst you could see firmware revisions on older LG sets, the newer ones are locked into the engineers control panel. (So for my part just a case of plug and pray really)
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post #143 of 513 Old 08-09-2011, 11:57 AM
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So, just to work this out, 3d with nVidia hardware DOES support passive 3d via interlacing but only with iZ3d and TriDef? It's own software "only" supports shutter glasses and 120hz displays, right?

Which is to say, crap as it may be, with ATI you get HD3d options AND Passive/Interlaced, but with nVidia you ONLY get passive interlaced via 3rd party and can't make use of nVidia's own 3d drivers?

I used to have a (driver based) preference for nVidia before getting my HD6950, which I primarily bought for the 2Gb memory (originally I was looking toward Eyefinity but that's out the door now with the 42" and for improved AA/AF levels at 1080p), but I do kind of miss PhysX, although, granted, not a hell of a lot of games use it. Still, the option is nice.

I'm a fanboy of neither, just as long as it can do what I want it to do I'm happy, which is to say play games (now in 3d) and watch DVD/BluRay's. That's really it. (Gaming wise, I have an almost 50% split between games that run "better" on ATI vs nVidia hardware, so that argument is moot)

So unless I'm mistaken, ATI has the advantage with HD3D, irrespective of it's qualities, and has quad buffer support. nVidia's own additions, such as OpenGL 4.2 would have minimal impact for me as I'd be more limited with nVidia being a passive 3d user, no?
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post #144 of 513 Old 08-09-2011, 12:33 PM
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The reference to the new OpenGL 4.2 Specification is more about things shaping up on the developer side, games should only get better with time. I can neither comfirm nor deny that Nvidia does interlaced, but the link in their 3DTV Play FAQ suggests it might with the use of a 1.4a HDMI certified display and cable.
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post #145 of 513 Old 08-09-2011, 12:42 PM
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I have read a few posts where people have used both AMD and Nvidia 3D solutions by using motherboards with the Lucid Hydra chip. There are some motherboards that allow you to shut off pci-express lanes for testing, this may also be a viable solution, where you could disable sli/phys x before starting the computer. There is also a new video card just released that has a Lucid Hydra chip on it with a review here http://www.guru3d.com/article/his-ra...eq-mix-review/ The thing with the Lucid Hydra chip is that even after being out for a few years now and multiple versions, the have yet to live up to the hopes and expectations of users.
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post #146 of 513 Old 08-09-2011, 12:58 PM
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The heck with tvs or monitors for multiple display set ups, use projectors for a more immersive experience. Google edge blending! watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNU6I...e_gdata_player
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post #147 of 513 Old 08-09-2011, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subv3rse View Post

So, just to work this out, 3d with nVidia hardware DOES support passive 3d via interlacing but only with iZ3d and TriDef? It's own software "only" supports shutter glasses and 120hz displays, right?

Which is to say, crap as it may be, with ATI you get HD3d options AND Passive/Interlaced, but with nVidia you ONLY get passive interlaced via 3rd party and can't make use of nVidia's own 3d drivers?

I used to have a (driver based) preference for nVidia before getting my HD6950, which I primarily bought for the 2Gb memory (originally I was looking toward Eyefinity but that's out the door now with the 42" and for improved AA/AF levels at 1080p), but I do kind of miss PhysX, although, granted, not a hell of a lot of games use it. Still, the option is nice.

I'm a fanboy of neither, just as long as it can do what I want it to do I'm happy, which is to say play games (now in 3d) and watch DVD/BluRay's. That's really it. (Gaming wise, I have an almost 50% split between games that run "better" on ATI vs nVidia hardware, so that argument is moot)

So unless I'm mistaken, ATI has the advantage with HD3D, irrespective of it's qualities, and has quad buffer support. nVidia's own additions, such as OpenGL 4.2 would have minimal impact for me as I'd be more limited with nVidia being a passive 3d user, no?

IZ3D and Tridef is video card agnostic, doesn't matter what video card you use, preferably a single fast video card is all that is needed. The quad buffer support is where AMD has opened to allow direct access to the GPU but it's not something that I am using at the moment since I am still trying to figure out how to make it work correctly in 720p mode. There's also the fact that interleaved is working so well at 1080p at 60 Hz, there is not a good reason for me to use it currently.

Butmuncher can answer Nvidia's side. All I know is checkerboard is an option that needs to be fixed on LG's side otherwise this 3d option becomes useless. Did you know with an AMD card, IZ3D checkerboard DLP output is free? Does not make a difference if there is color ghosting in checkerboard mode unfortunately.

Hope to hear your response with the results soon.

Also, Butmuncher,

When you run 3D in Side by Side mode or 2d/3d conversion, are you getting frames being cropped on the side like Subv3rse?
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post #148 of 513 Old 08-09-2011, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kerempek View Post

Hi,

i have LG LW 450x series TV.

i have HIS ATI HD6850 graphic carded PC.

i have 1.4 hdmi cable.

how can i play 3D mkv files on LG LW450x series from my pc ?

is there a way for it ?

i try to read the posts before but they are a lot techinal for me.

The easiest way like butmuncher said is to just play mkv file in Windows media center. Go get cccp installed http://www.cccp-project.net/, play it in window media center full screen. Press the 3D button on your remote and select the Side by Side option, it's usually the second picture for LG.
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post #149 of 513 Old 08-10-2011, 12:38 AM
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Cheers SkyGuy,

Yeah the first part I more or less knew, it's more the nVidia side I'm interested in but that said, as far as I can tell the LW450U doesn't support checkerboard itself. As 3d modes go, It has side by side horiz, side by side vert, and another one that I'm not sure what the name is where it's showing 1 frame followed by another frame ever so slightly right shifted, plus the non-mode dependent interleaving. Therefore, as far as I can tell checkboard would be useless for me anyway.

I'm not exactly an advocate for HD3D, don't get me wrong, and I have actually bought both iZ3d AND Tridef (about a day before my card blew up) - so I have full licenses for both. It's more about maximizing my available options as a 3d user with Passive3d equipment.

If this firmware update does fix it, then interleave all the way! But, it would just be nice to have the other options still.
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post #150 of 513 Old 08-10-2011, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by 3DNewb View Post

No idea if this would work on the LG, but some guys using 3DTV Play are using checkerboard successfully, using a spoofed hybrid EDID combined from a Samsung plasma and a Samsung DLP. http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=191819 You should be able to open the .inf file that you previously made and this one, then do a side by side comparison that might raise a red flag before trying. For more information Wikipedia and Microsoft both have some great info on EDIDs and .inf files showing what each line is for.

Sadly that does the same as the others, still has colorbug but thanks for the info and time you have given us.

Bugged Interleaved/checkerboard lg forum thread, please add your names.http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-fo...-lg-3dtvs.html
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