Dirty screen effect (DSE) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 07-13-2011, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I am wondering if all led, lcd, and plasmas have this problem called DSE?
Do all modern tv sets have some degree of DSE?

I had two samsung d8000 tvs and they both had severe cases of it along with flashlighting.(picture was fantastic)

I then moved on to sony and bought an ex723 which still had the DSE problem...but the picture was not as good as the d8000... so i returned that set..

now i have had a xbr909 for about a month and it has fantastic picture, zero blooming when viewing straight on.....no flashlighting but it still has minor DSE!!

question is there a fix? its very minor on the set....but it pisses me off that a 3000+ tv has these issues....

has anyone fixed thier dse?
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post #2 of 15 Old 07-13-2011, 03:38 PM
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Not sure why you would expect the Sony EX723 to have a picture quality similar to the D8000. There is no DSE fix that i know since it is usually a panel issue.
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post #3 of 15 Old 07-13-2011, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan007 View Post

I am wondering if all led, lcd, and plasmas have this problem called DSE?
Do all modern tv sets have some degree of DSE?

I had two samsung d8000 tvs and they both had severe cases of it along with flashlighting.(picture was fantastic)

I then moved on to sony and bought an ex723 which still had the DSE problem...but the picture was not as good as the d8000... so i returned that set..

now i have had a xbr909 for about a month and it has fantastic picture, zero blooming when viewing straight on.....no flashlighting but it still has minor DSE!!

question is there a fix? its very minor on the set....but it pisses me off that a 3000+ tv has these issues....

has anyone fixed thier dse?

1. Banding is a special case of DSE
2. DSE is the perception of the actual luminosity uniformity distribution across the panel's display area.
3. Any and all LCM layers and casings can contribute to the resultant uniformity issues of the composite set.

If you agree with the above definition of DSE, there is a fix, that I have seen in the patent literature:

Map the actual luminosity uniformity levels at each pixel, and correct the display stream. (LG Display)
---
Practically speaking, we can consider the following cases:

Case 1. Some models are architecturally prone to DSE/Banding - not much you can do about it.

Case 2. Some models have a varying amount of DSE - try to find a unit with a minimal amount of DSE.

Tweaking or calibrating your set may result in a reduction of discernible DSE (by minimizing the observable nonuniformity).

Some people are not sensistive to DSE, due to variances in perceptual acuity (including, but not limited to motion tracking and image stabilization mechanisms) -
http://www.perceptionweb.com/ecvp/ecvp07.pdf


-nony
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post #4 of 15 Old 03-01-2012, 07:01 AM
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I agree with the above posters. I'm starting to believe that all/most LCDs will exhibit some form of DSE. I also believe that others are just more sensitive to it...or more OCD about it. It sucks and hopefully we won't have to worry about it one day. There are varying levels of DSE, so you just have to find one that isn't too bad.
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post #5 of 15 Old 03-01-2012, 07:10 AM
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OCD = DSE + BFD?

Yeah... I'll buy that....
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post #6 of 15 Old 03-01-2012, 04:35 PM
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I'm trying to understand the DSE as I believe my LG LK450 has it to some extent, though probably quite mild as it doesn't bother me much. I think it is basically a panel uniformity issue in which the backlight illumination isn't perfectly even and so a completely uniform screen (like a gray or white test pattern covering the whole screen) isn't perfectly uniform and you can see something there that looks like a dirty screen as the illumination and color is not perfectly even throughout the entire screen. When the camera pans in a screen with a lot of gray or white, the dirty screen look remains in place creating the DSE.
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post #7 of 15 Old 03-01-2012, 05:13 PM
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I think "DSE" is rather AR coating(unevenly applied), because even some plasmas have DSE and plasma doesn't have "uniformity issues" by design.

As i said before, in my experience all more-or-less modern LCDs(or CCFL, to be specific) have "uniformity issue", as you describe it, i.e lines running all the way through the screen and these are the lamps(cathodes) we see. I think it's due to the fact that TVs become quite thin and backlighting is in close proximity to the panel. My old, 2007 32" Sony is very thick, in comparison, and i have to try really hard to spot these lines. But they are there.

So if you don't have "dark spots", or "blotches", you can consider yourself a "DSE-free" man.
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post #8 of 15 Old 03-01-2012, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshZH View Post

I think "DSE" is rather AR coating(unevenly applied), because even some plasmas have DSE and plasma doesn't have "uniformity issues" by design.

As i said before, in my experience all more-or-less modern LCDs(or CCFL, to be specific) have "uniformity issue", as you describe it, i.e lines running all the way through the screen and these are the lamps(cathodes) we see. I think it's due to the fact that TVs become quite thin and backlighting is in close proximity to the panel. My old, 2007 32" Sony is very thick, in comparison, and i have to try really hard to spot these lines. But they are there.

So if you don't have "dark spots", or "blotches", you can consider yourself a "DSE-free" man.

I do have the uniformity issue related to the CCFL tubes (shows up on a full white screen and dimmer screens as well but I also might have the AR coating thing to a very mild extent. Sometimes these issues are there from day one but you don't notice such minor details until you've had the TV for a couple of months AND you've read such threads and posts on the Internet more carefully.
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post #9 of 15 Old 03-01-2012, 05:34 PM
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the sharp 80" absolutely has zero dse. i have had everything in between and including the Sharp Elites in which they all suffered from dse in one extent or another. the only other exception was the 65vt30 that i briefly had.

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post #10 of 15 Old 03-02-2012, 03:44 PM
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From experience, Would you guys say that all newer LCDs have DSE? This my first HDTV,but didnt really notice on others "older" LCDs. The AR coating may be more aggressive nowadays which could cause it.

Being a sports fan,I am worried about baseball and football, basketball is okay. The DSE is really distracting with all the fast panning in hockey...It's not watchable and I'm glad I'm not a hockey fan.
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post #11 of 15 Old 03-02-2012, 04:07 PM
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I think it's a "hit or miss". Same with "clouding" - during the manufacturing process something was pressed just a little bit harder than it should be - here you go, clouding.
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post #12 of 15 Old 03-02-2012, 04:18 PM
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Interesting....Both of my LG LK520s have had it. But, I might just have to deal with it. I'm leery of an exchange and ending up with a tv with DSE and clouding/bleed. Might just deal with the tv for a year or two and sell it.
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post #13 of 15 Old 08-01-2014, 03:08 AM
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I wonder what kind of test pattern/Video you use to detect DSE clearly
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post #14 of 15 Old 08-01-2014, 03:39 PM
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I assume something relatively bright, with a smooth texture without much detail, that is panning.
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post #15 of 15 Old 08-03-2014, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shae View Post
I assume something relatively bright, with a smooth texture without much detail, that is panning.
What did the guys use one rtings to show this uniformity issue? here the link:

http://www.rtings.com/info/gray-unif...een-effect-dse

you can see it where good here but what test pattern did they use? If i use a static testpattern which is grey i see nothing.
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