Any LED TV's Without the Dreaded "Soap Opera Affect?" - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 35 Old 08-23-2011, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I went with plasma TV's because of the "soap opera affect" I saw on LCD's when viewing major motion pictures. This year I've owned and returned Panasonic plasmas and now own a Samsung plasma. I like movies to look like movies and not like soap operas or videos shot on camcorders. I went through several plasma TV's this year and each one irritated my eyes to the point it was uncomfortable to watch. My cluster headaches returned after a 2 year hiatus! Unfortunately the plasma technology and its pixel flicker is the problem that has caused my irritated eyes when watching. I turned to my optometrist and neurologist for answers. Got new glasses and tried many other things with adjustments to my tv. After some excellent information and advice from a fellow member, I'm going to look at LED TV's now.

Is there a line of LED TV's you know of that do not display "soap opera affect" that makes movies look like they are shot on a set with a video camera? Thanks
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post #2 of 35 Old 08-23-2011, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codyred View Post

I went with plasma TV's because of the "soap opera affect" I saw on LCD's when viewing major motion pictures. This year I've owned and returned Panasonic plasmas and now own a Samsung plasma. I like movies to look like movies and not like soap operas or videos shot on camcorders. I went through several plasma TV's this year and each one irritated my eyes to the point it was uncomfortable to watch. My cluster headaches returned after a 2 year hiatus! Unfortunately the plasma technology and its pixel flicker is the problem that has caused my irritated eyes when watching. I turned to my optometrist and neurologist for answers. Got new glasses and tried many other things with adjustments to my tv. After some excellent information and advice from a fellow member, I'm going to look at LED TV's now.

Is there a line of LED TV's you know of that do not display "soap opera affect" that makes movies look like they are shot on a set with a video camera? Thanks

You simply need to turn off any motion interpolation features on 120Hz or 240Hz sets. 60Hz sets won't have the SOE to begin with.
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post #3 of 35 Old 08-23-2011, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by codyred View Post

Is there a line of LED TV's you know of that do not display "soap opera affect" that makes movies look like they are shot on a set with a video camera? Thanks

Sony
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post #4 of 35 Old 08-23-2011, 11:39 AM
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If I only had a dollar for every time a varition of this question has been asked, I could retire a rich man tomorrow.

You shouldn't have the "Soap Opera Effect" if you turn off the motion processing/interpolation.
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post #5 of 35 Old 08-23-2011, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post

If I only had a dollar for every time a varition of this question has been asked, I could retire a rich man tomorrow.

You shouldn't have the "Soap Opera Effect" if you turn off the motion processing/interpolation.

Maybe just post a giant sticky somewhere defining SOE and how to turn it on, off, or modulate it Personally, I like it on OTA stuff but do turn it off for movies. God I hope I don't get flamed for that
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post #6 of 35 Old 08-23-2011, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

Maybe just post a giant sticky somewhere defining SOE and how to turn it on, off, or modulate it Personally, I like it on OTA stuff but do turn it off for movies. God I hope I don't get flamed for that




Well boys lets get the flame throwers out guys lol
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post #7 of 35 Old 08-23-2011, 01:41 PM
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Well boys lets get the flame throwers out guys lol

NOOOOO! what a world, what a world ........
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post #8 of 35 Old 08-23-2011, 02:40 PM
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I think it IS very relevant to ask about what options a particular set has, for turning motion control on and off, and also for "turning it down a bit" in various ways.

Another relevant question is whether a set can deal with 24 fps content, using 5:5 pull-down.

Plus, as someone noted above, some people like some degree of motion control for OTA viewing (for TV sports, for example), but not for movies. So a set's ability to have different motion control settings for different inputs may also be important.

My LG set (55LW5600), which as a 120 Hz. set, has off/low/high settings choices for its motion control (TrueMotion), which can be set differently for different inputs. The TrueMotion settings also have a "user mode" that lets you set de-judder and de-blur separately.

I have my blu-ray player set to play at 24 fps, and I have TruMotion turned off completely on that input. I have what basically amounts to "low" settings on the input that comes from my cable box.

But all of the above is largely a matter of taste. I didn't like the SOE appearance of movies with TrueMotion turned on, but realize that at least part of the issue may be that I'm just not used to movies having that appearance....
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post #9 of 35 Old 08-23-2011, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rschleicher View Post
I think it IS very relevant to ask about what options a particular set has, for turning motion control on and off, and also for "turning it down a bit" in various ways.

Another relevant question is whether a set can deal with 24 fps content, using 5:5 pull-down.

Plus, as someone noted above, some people like some degree of motion control for OTA viewing (for TV sports, for example), but not for movies. So a set's ability to have different motion control settings for different inputs may also be important.

My LG set (55LW5600), which as a 120 Hz. set, has off/low/high settings choices for its motion control (TrueMotion), which can be set differently for different inputs. The TrueMotion settings also have a "user mode" that lets you set de-judder and de-blur separately.

I have my blu-ray player set to play at 24 fps, and I have TruMotion turned off completely on that input. I have what basically amounts to "low" settings on the input that comes from my cable box.

But all of the above is largely a matter of taste. I didn't like the SOE appearance of movies with TrueMotion turned on, but realize that at least part of the issue may be that I'm just not used to movies having that appearance....
That's pretty much how I have my LG setup as well, but without the cable box. TV for us is by OTA only.
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post #10 of 35 Old 08-23-2011, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

You simply need to turn off any motion interpolation features on 120Hz or 240Hz sets. 60Hz sets won't have the SOE to begin with.

That doesn't always work. I previously had a Samsung LN46C630 LCD. Turning off all the motion features didn't eliminate soap opera affect. I returned it.
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post #11 of 35 Old 08-24-2011, 07:07 AM
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I may be in the minority on this forum but I have really started to like the SOE. I did initially turn off Film Mode and Motion Enhancement on my Sharp TV because the Soap Opera Effect was too radical a change for me. However, after a few days of experimenting with the settings, I have it set back on.

I find myself going back and watching movies that I normally would not watch again, and enjoying the different prospective and clarity. The SOE dramatically increases the set detail and makes me feel like I am in the movie rather than watching it. I find myself looking around at the various objects in the scene in addition to watching the main characters (sort of what I do in real life). In some movies I'm noticing the shoe shines, wrinkles in clothes, and some cheesy props. The best way I can describe the difference is the SOE picture is like being on location and seeing the scene with my on eyes vs a 24fps film that looks like I'm viewing a moving HQ painting inside a picture frame.

As an example, I was watching the old (1958) episodes of Rifleman and a few times I was expecting Lucas McCain to say to me; either move out of the way or give me a hand. Again, this is just me and my "on-scene" viewing experience. I believe I read somewhere that older folks (that's me) have an easier time adjusting to the SOE.
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post #12 of 35 Old 08-24-2011, 08:08 AM
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@VFC

and another one comes out of the woodwork be careful my friend, we are a minority here
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post #13 of 35 Old 08-24-2011, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

@VFC

and another one comes out of the woodwork be careful my friend, we are a minority here

I would anger the professional calibrators because I like slightly over-saturated colors. I would anger the audiophiles because I always turn on Bass Boost (if I had it on my Bose Wave Radio, I would turn it on). And I like condiments on my hot dogs and hamburgers. I may get banded for life on this forum...lol.
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post #14 of 35 Old 08-24-2011, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by VFC View Post

I would anger the professional calibrators because I like slightly over-saturated colors. I would anger the audiophiles because I always turn on Bass Boost (if I had it on my Bose Wave Radio, I would turn it on). And I like condiments on my hot dogs and hamburgers. I may get banded for life on this forum...lol.

Every one of these sins is permissible, just as long as you never put ketchup on a hot dog....

Actually, I know what you mean about SOE in a movie being interesting to watch. And that's exactly the impression I get from it - that I'm on the set, and watching the MAKING of the movie, versus watching the movie itself. I still think that most of the time I want the illusion that the movie "look and feel" provides, rather than the overly-real feeling of being on the set. But it can still be very interesting to go the other way.

I was watching the old 1938 movie "Robin Hood" the other day, and was amazed by the vibrant colors, especially in the scenes set in Prince John's castle. The banners, the guard uniforms, and even the multi-color sparkle of Prince John's (Claude Rains) tunic, were all a lot more vivid than I remember. I also had armed myself with a list of the flaws and continuity errors in this movie, and so part of the entertainment was to watch for those - including one scene where a car can be seen driving through "Sherwood forest" in the far background. A sharp picture also made it very clear that all of the guys who get hit by arrows in the movie had wooden boards under their tunics, to take the arrow hits. (Still not without some risk, I'm sure...)
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post #15 of 35 Old 08-24-2011, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

That's pretty much how I have my LG setup as well, but without the cable box. TV for us is by OTA only.

..hey "o.p." have'nt pulled the trigger yet, but some lg passive is likely. How is the ota picture quality of your panel? Does it scale 720p, 1080i well? How does SD pq look? Do these passives 3d panel displays need an after market processor? Ie. I Hear a.bay, marvel etc.. have some nice chips "onk" even has a new 4k upscale solution, tho, cost is, to me, quite expensive. And I haven't the technical knowledge to know if 3d party "up" processing can even be used on a 3d picture? Any input will be appreciated. Tia
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post #16 of 35 Old 08-24-2011, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rschleicher View Post

Every one of these sins is permissible, just as long as you never put ketchup on a hot dog....

Actually, I know what you mean about SOE in a movie being interesting to watch. And that's exactly the impression I get from it - that I'm on the set, and watching the MAKING of the movie, versus watching the movie itself. I still think that most of the time I want the illusion that the movie "look and feel" provides, rather than the overly-real feeling of being on the set. But it can still be very interesting to go the other way.

I was watching the old 1938 movie "Robin Hood" the other day, and was amazed by the vibrant colors, especially in the scenes set in Prince John's castle. The banners, the guard uniforms, and even the multi-color sparkle of Prince John's (Claude Rains) tunic, were all a lot more vivid than I remember. I also had armed myself with a list of the flaws and continuity errors in this movie, and so part of the entertainment was to watch for those - including one scene where a car can be seen driving through "Sherwood forest" in the far background. A sharp picture also made it very clear that all of the guys who get hit by arrows in the movie had wooden boards under their tunics, to take the arrow hits. (Still not without some risk, I'm sure...)

.. lol, :-D you and vfc's word imagery made my day.. excellent..and enjoyable. What chapter is car/ forest scene? Is there a site link that point out these errors, gaffes and "bloopers? That would be fun watching with friends, and family trying to spot these scenes on this vivid LG Panel.
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post #17 of 35 Old 08-24-2011, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

You simply need to turn off any motion interpolation features on 120Hz or 240Hz sets. 60Hz sets won't have the SOE to begin with.

That is incorrect. It is not motion blur reduction, (120/240 Hz) frame rate that creates SOE, it is Motion smoothing which is different and separate from the basic frame rate.
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post #18 of 35 Old 08-24-2011, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rschleicher View Post

Every one of these sins is permissible, just as long as you never put ketchup on a hot dog....

That is just too damn funny
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post #19 of 35 Old 08-24-2011, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U; View Post

You simply need to turn off any motion interpolation features on 120Hz or 240Hz sets.


Turn off all motion smoothing, you need to know what each feature does and wether or not it does any smoothing (On my Sony Cinemotion Auto1 does some extra smoothing as well as MotionFlow (motion interpolation)).
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post #20 of 35 Old 08-24-2011, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmj21grams View Post

.. lol, :-D you and vfc's word imagery made my day.. excellent..and enjoyable. What chapter is car/ forest scene? Is there a site link that point out these errors, gaffes and "bloopers? That would be fun watching with friends, and family trying to spot these scenes on this vivid LG Panel.

Here's IMDB's list of gaffes and bloopers in the 1938 film "Robin Hood", starring Errol Flynn.

It's a pretty long list...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0029843/goofs

The scene with a car driving by in the background is somewhat near the end of the movie, when Will Scarlett gets off his horse to help the wounded Much the Miller character. You really wouldn't notice it unless you are looking.

The filming locations for the movie are also kind of interesting (see this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adv...bin_Hood_(film)

Everyone probably knows this already, but the part of Little John is played by Alan Hale Sr., the father of the "Skipper" from Gilligan's Island (Alan Hale, Jr.) They look a lot alike.
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post #21 of 35 Old 08-24-2011, 08:32 PM
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+1 for liking motion interpolation and ketchup on hotdogs. Just in support of others who feel like they are in the minority. I also run my sub 2dB hot - oh the humanity.
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post #22 of 35 Old 08-24-2011, 11:13 PM
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SOE to me means Sony Online Entertainment
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post #23 of 35 Old 08-25-2011, 01:39 AM
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I could retire a rich man tomorrow.



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post #24 of 35 Old 08-25-2011, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codyred View Post

That doesn't always work. I previously had a Samsung LN46C630 LCD. Turning off all the motion features didn't eliminate soap opera affect. I returned it.

I call BS on this. Do you even know what the motion features on a Samsung are? You turn off AutoMotion Plus and all your problems would have been solved. There is NO SOE with AutoMotion Plus off.
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post #25 of 35 Old 08-25-2011, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

That is incorrect. It is not motion blur reduction, (120/240 Hz) frame rate that creates SOE, it is Motion smoothing which is different and separate from the basic frame rate.

both blur reduction and judder reduction are motion interpolation features

judder reduction causes the SOE but even blur reduction can have side effects
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post #26 of 35 Old 08-25-2011, 07:53 AM
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im typing this on GTV so no spell check...

i just got a sam d630 and soap fx,, is not really how i would describe the fx its more like really high qulaity live video... which is great for live programing.. and doc shows.. talking head pictures like rez dogs and the like... but is discomforting for film cadence... but when i turn it off its just really good film clarity in proper cadence.. on nature docs its amazing.. but you need to take the shudder way down... well i was a skeptic at the whole idea of 120 hz vs 60,,, but one you have it a while you really do catch the flaw of 60hz,, its just a less detail kind exp... so,,, yea soap opera fx,,,, is bad in some cases,,, but if you get a good set.. you can tweak it to your liking... i dont know of any sets that dont allow some ways of adjusting the fx,,, but i would stear clear of those...


and google tv is pretty cool to... but that OT..
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post #27 of 35 Old 08-25-2011, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codyred View Post

That doesn't always work. I previously had a Samsung LN46C630 LCD. Turning off all the motion features didn't eliminate soap opera affect. I returned it.

assuming you turned off AMP entirely, that would be the exception not the rule.
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post #28 of 35 Old 08-25-2011, 09:39 AM
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At the start I didn't like the effect. In the end having it on all the time, I got used to it and now I don't even notice it.
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post #29 of 35 Old 08-25-2011, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

both blur reduction and judder reduction are motion interpolation features

judder reduction causes the SOE but even blur reduction can have side effects

Hey, even aspirin has side effects....

The frame rates of LCDs are only going higher and the best implemented true 240 Hz, (rather than 120 Hz with a scanning back-light (quasi-240Hz)), do a good job of reducing motion blur, and are the wave of the future.

There was no going back to 60 Hz even before 3D, but now with 3D, frame rates of 480 Hz and higher are the direction motion blur reduction is headed.
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post #30 of 35 Old 08-27-2011, 11:07 PM
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The new Vizio XVT series have 3 settings related to motion... I have the 55" model so what I say here is based on personal experience...

Smooth Motion - this seems to reprocess the original source video frames to match the refresh rate of the TV. This setting alone does not create the SOE, and there are NO artifacts.

Real Cinema - this is the Frame Interpolation setting which DOES cause the SOE

Noice Reduction - this helps reduce the artifacts created by processing new video frames (Frame Interpolation, or MEMC)

So with these TVs, you can turn it all off, and just watch the good ole' 60Hz signal from your Cable or Satellite... Or you can turn on ONLY the Smooth Motion and get a smoother picture transition without the SOE or video artifacts from Interpolation (MEMC)
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