Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 14574 Old 09-10-2011, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by guvadc View Post

Test patterns in this case would show non uniformity in the panel that could be the cause of the DSE that the poster sees. DSE can be seen over content and can be distracting. Also, you don't need test paterns to see banding as there are many light colored scenes and or menus that will show it if its there.

dead on ...correct...

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post #272 of 14574 Old 09-10-2011, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiff69 View Post

Haha, you're right about that - I perhaps should have chosen different wording. There is no doubt that bang for the buck goes to the lower end Sharps. I think a 70" LCD for $3500 street is fantastic, but the Elite is clearly a better set and I would say by more than just by 10%. However, there is always diminishing returns on higher end equipment versus the rest of what's out there.

I would agree with all of that, I was just having some fun there.

Honestly, I'll say what I've said before: Disregarding price, the Elite appears to be the finest TV money can buy right now. And even including price, the fact the 70" lacks any competition from any non-Sharp manufacturer makes paying for it "reasonable" under some definitions of that word.

The only products that are "within 10%" or even close to that would be the currently much smaller Sony HX929, the Panasonic VT30 plasma and the very questionably built Samsung D7000/D8000 plasmas.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #273 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 01:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Oh c'mon now HiFiFun, you're really way over the top now... This is no 'conspiracy' between Sharp & BB.

Ken,
First I appreciate you acknowledging my effectiveness, though it a bit predictable.
Just as in supermarkets products manufactures pay the store for placed in key locations. How a common business practice is labeled a 'conspiracy'?

This highlights a major issue in that some threads have a concentrated point of view.
Other readers may assume that everyone is thinking like that, when in reality its only a very small percentage. A general manager told me that just the Elite name alone attracts people. Obviously true guys?

So I'm here to state the rather obvious facts that the average Joe with common sense can see.

The switchover from the Sharp 935 to the Elite was rushed. We all know that the Sharp 935 was displayed at last January's CES. It was there that managers saw just how good it was. They had already been working with Thx.
All they really had time for was marketing efforts along with better calibration and possible binning/selection of panels.

After seeing the insect Blu-ray on the Elite, I came home and selected two reference films to observe DSE and viewing in a nighttime atmosphere.
They aren't movies you need to watch all at one time: Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (pure corn) and Baraka (a rather dark movie). The picture quality was superlative on my calibrated 735 with excellent black levels (the higher the native contrast, the less need there is for local dimming and lower absolute black levels).
The panels definitely share the same all around look with high native contrast and colors which are very natural, yet pop. The new feature which we are all seeing is the higher performance of the Mediatek image processing:
http://www.mediatek.com/en/product/info.php?sn=65

Then we learn:
"Two of Taiwan’s top tier IC design houses, Mediatek Inc, and Realtek Semiconductor Corp. have decided to form a cooperation to push out its IPTV IC chip."

This new generation of image processing is superior in depicting the fine high frequency detail, especially evident in viewing crowds at a football game. Its also in the Sharp 60" 633. Read the just as enthusiastic responses for far less $$$:
http://reviews.costco.com/2070/11649...rt=helpfulness

Obviously several refinements and advances in technology have all come-together to make a visually superior line of televisions. So its not surprising that savvy managers are capitalizing on the obvious improvements and building "design centers".
Further, even arch panel competitors are throwing in the towel. Congratulations go to Sharp!
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post #274 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 02:44 AM
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This tv really is way to expensive, why don't they make smaller models.

Another thing that bothers me is the fact that currently almost every tv has a few issue's, not talking about black levels but clouding,backlight bleeding, banding, uninformity, buzzing and so on.

Manufacturers (even Sharp) are telling the customer that this is within there quality control, Samsung doesn't even think clouding is an issue at all.

But if you pay 8000$ on a tv, only then you get what you should have. Ok on cheaper models the PQ or blacklevels don't need to be top of the line but they should be free of those issue's.

They show us it's possible but only for rich people i suppose.
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post #275 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_RiFiC View Post

This tv really is way to expensive, why don't they make smaller models.

Another thing that bothers me is the fact that currently almost every tv has a few issue's, not talking about black levels but clouding,backlight bleeding, banding, uninformity, buzzing and so on.

Manufacturers (even Sharp) are telling the customer that this is within there quality control, Samsung doesn't even think clouding is an issue at all.

But if you pay 8000$ on a tv, only then you get what you should have. Ok on cheaper models the PQ or blacklevels don't need to be top of the line but they should be free of those issue's.

They show us it's possible but only for rich people i suppose.

my 60" set is not flawless, we shall see what kind of service treatment i get for buying such an expensive set.

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post #276 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 03:02 AM
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which issue do you have then?

I was very unhappy after spending 2.5K on a D7000 with issue's, i would be furious on a 5K tv.

My HX92 has no crease but does have the halo effect, which doesn't botter me at al.

Some issues are far more irritating that others..
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post #277 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 04:46 AM
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You seem to hate this TV so why bother with a warranty claim? Why don't you just return it?
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post #278 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 05:09 AM
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The selling price of these sets will drop with time. How low they'll go is anyone's guess. But if the 70X5 ever drops below $5K I am pulling the trigger the minute I see one for that price. I paid $4,500 for my current JVC 70-inch LCoS set about 6 years ago and I haven't regretted that purchase for a single minute. I'm sure the 70X5 will keep me happy for just as long, if not longer.

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post #279 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 05:31 AM
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Whether you wind up buying one of these Sharp Elites or not, consider that Panasonic, Samsung and others will have to up their game just to remain competitive.

It benefits all of us.

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post #280 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 05:33 AM
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Anyone in Europe have a contact at Sharp they can ask if it's really true that we won't get the X5 here?

I really had my mind set on this TV, damn.

/Martin
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post #281 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 05:41 AM
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HiFiFun, I wouldn't point to Costco reviews as a benchmark for display quality. If you think the average Costco TV buyer has the same quality expectations as a typical AVS'er, you're sadly mistaken.
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post #282 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_RiFiC View Post

which issue do you have then?

I was very unhappy after spending 2.5K on a D7000 with issue's, i would be furious on a 5K tv.

My HX92 has no crease but does have the halo effect, which doesn't botter me at al.

Some issues are far more irritating that others..

dse

flickering background images on all inputs....

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post #283 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Whether you wind up buying one of these Sharp Elites or not, consider that Panasonic, Samsung and others will have to up their game just to remain competitive.

It benefits all of us.

Google elitelcdtv.com and ask them yourself. I think Sharp intended to show the X5's in Berlin a week or so ago. Good luck
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post #284 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyN View Post

You seem to hate this TV so why bother with a warranty claim? Why don't you just return it?

i do not hate it....

but i have two issues that need to be addressed....

dse

flickering/fluctuating background image on all inputs, when ld is off it greatly reduces it. a warranty claim has been submitted.

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post #285 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ManWithAPlan View Post

Excellent plan, I love it. I'm curious about discrete remote codes as well, as I have a pretty extensive 3-zone Universal Remote IR/RF setup, and will need these codes for proper "activity switching" and such. Obviously, learning via IR is easy if it comes to that, but that doesn't help with direct discrete codes for Input source and power, etc. Not willing to go RS-232 either in my case. But I guess I have time to figure this out, my calibrated 70inch will be delivered by VE the week of Sept. 19th. About 10 days out, and it's killing me! I also use an Oppo95 with sound via Anthem's D2V and A5 and A2 amp into B&W speakers. The Oppo is the best decision I've made in a long time, this thing rocks. Can't wait to see it do 3D to the Elite! Avatar is first day viewing material no doubt!

Congrats k_lewis! Welcome to the Elite owner's club.

-Brian

Thanks Brian- I suppose with such a new product we may pay the price slightly in not having certain info redily available such as the direct IR codes. If I find anything I'll post it up. I'm using Universal Remote products throughout my home with a few MX850's and KP900's. Everything is RF to IR with one IR to RS232 controller for the Theta Casablanca III (which I had to design and build myslef, since there is no existing Universal product which does that type of function).

Humble suggestion, replace your Anthem processor with an Integra DHC 80.2 (or now available 80.3). It is inexpensive, and seriously not kidding in the slightest, sounds miles better in all aspects than the Anthem. I know, hard to believe but if you get a chance to demo one, you'll be quite surprised. If I could not own my CBIII for some reason, I would only use an Integra- and that is saying a lot!! I've owned two Anthems, a Meridian, a Theta Casanova, Two Arcams, and two Integras before getting the CBIII. The sound quality difference between the CBIII and previously mentioned processors was HUGE. The sound difference between the CBIII and the Integra 80.2 as only very slight- quite astonishing.


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post #286 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiff69 View Post

Haha, you're right about that - I perhaps should have chosen different wording. There is no doubt that bang for the buck goes to the lower end Sharps. I think a 70" LCD for $3500 street is fantastic, but the Elite is clearly a better set and I would say by more than just by 10%. However, there is always diminishing returns on higher end equipment versus the rest of what's out there.

Yuppp, sort of like a Miata compared to a 911. They are both 2 seaters, convertibles, etc. You pay a premium for the latter for the high end performance and exclusive ownership. But the 'bang for buck' goes to the Miata. I guess it all depends on what suits you personally. I would own the regular Sharp 70" right now if I was not hugely dissapointed in the PQ (per my own tastes / needs).

I was originially holding out for the new Toshiba 65" 480hz panel, I had one on order since May. But, it seems to have turned into vaporware, which is a shame, because the specs on that set looked phenominal. LG's 65" set is only 120hz, Vizio is junk, The Samsung 65D8000 is nothing more than a re-badged 65C8000 (I owned a 65C8000 a few months ago and returned it), and the Panasonic VT30 (IMO) is 'just ok'. So it would seem there is no other uber-high-end 65"/70" panel worth buying besides the Elite at present.

If Toshiba over comes out with their new 65", at $4500k est street price that may be a game changer and challenger to the Elite.


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post #287 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 07:54 AM
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In reference to price complaints on the new Elite, if LG were to ever release their new 72" here (LG 72LZ9700) it would be in the $10k range. Similar for Samsung with their supposed 75". I don't think Vizio's (supposed) upcoming Cinemawide 71" will be much less $ either.

IMO the only thing that is 'hurting' the touted street price of the Elite 70 is the fact that the regular Sharp 70 sells for *considerably* less.

However, I think if anyone honestly takes a hard look at the regular Sharp vs the Elite in regards to picture quality, it will be quite obvious as to why the regular Sharp panel is priced so much lower. If you don't care about ultimate picture quality but just want the largest flat screen size for the price, the regular Sharp will probably do just fine.


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post #288 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 08:21 AM
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I don't know which yet, but I would be highly surprised if the Elite didn't already use existing Sharp or Pioneer IR codes.
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post #289 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiff69 View Post

I don't know which yet, but I would be highly surprised if the Elite didn't already use existing Sharp or Pioneer IR codes.

Yep, one can hope! When I get my set I will run through the code databases in my universal remote editor software all and see if anything works. Although, the Elite has some new remote functions like the direct Netflix button, and that does not exist on the regular Sharp panels.


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post #290 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Thanks Brian- I suppose with such a new product we may pay the price slightly in not having certain info redily available such as the direct IR codes. If I find anything I'll post it up. I'm using Universal Remote products throughout my home with a few MX850's and KP900's. Everything is RF to IR with one IR to RS232 controller for the Theta Casablanca III (which I had to design and build myslef, since there is no existing Universal product which does that type of function).

Humble suggestion, replace your Anthem processor with an Integra DHC 80.2 (or now available 80.3). It is inexpensive, and seriously not kidding in the slightest, sounds miles better in all aspects than the Anthem. I know, hard to believe but if you get a chance to demo one, you'll be quite surprised. If I could not own my CBIII for some reason, I would only use an Integra- and that is saying a lot!! I've owned two Anthems, a Meridian, a Theta Casanova, Two Arcams, and two Integras before getting the CBIII. The sound quality difference between the CBIII and previously mentioned processors was HUGE. The sound difference between the CBIII and the Integra 80.2 as only very slight- quite astonishing.

Interesting. My brother-in-law owns the Integra 80.2 and I have to tell you - it doesn't hold a candle to the D2V sound-wise. Now, the 80.3 might be interesting, but it's not gonna be enough for me to ditch the D2V, even if somehow the sound quality had greatly improved. Nor would I pay the enormous premium for the Theta. I'm quite happy with my system sound-wise, and Anthem's ARC is doing a beautiful job for me in a difficult room to say the least. The Elite is going to be my big purchase for the year a/v wise, and only because my Qualia 006 has finally died for good. But as always, it's good to get a different perspective. I just have to disagree wholeheartedly based on what I've heard.

But let's get back to the Elite, as we're moving way off-topic here.
-Brian
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post #291 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

i do not hate it....

but i have two issues that need to be addressed....

dse

flickering/fluctuating background image on all inputs, when ld is off it greatly reduces it. a warranty claim has been submitted.

Just so you know DSE has never been fixed on any set that has it. It's just the nature of the AR filter and it's like that throughout the model year. The HX929 has light DSE to and it's something you'll have to either live with or not. It's still good you are reporting it so Sharp will understand the importance of correcting it for next years Elite.

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post #292 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 09:38 AM
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Truth be told, I can't remember any flat panel I've ever seen not having some degree of DSE. Yes, even my beloved Pioneer Kuro has some DSE. So it seems to a flat panel to display zero DSE is not an entirely realistic expectation.
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post #293 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

Just so you know DSE has never been fixed on any set that has it. It's just the nature of the AR filter and it's like that throughout the model year. The HX929 has light DSE to and it's something you'll have to either live with or not. It's still good you are reporting it so Sharp will understand the importance of correcting it for next years Elite.

yes, i realize that. this is why i will demand a new panel swap in hopes of a better one. the fact that this even exists in Sharps top of the line model is nothing short of failed engineering/qc. the 73x line has it and i wouldn't be surprised if it's inherent on the 63x series as well.

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post #294 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Truth be told, I can't remember any flat panel I've ever seen not having some degree of DSE. Yes, even my beloved Pioneer Kuro has some DSE. So it seems to a flat panel to display zero DSE is not an entirely realistic expectation.

correct, same here my 55lhx and 8500 exhibit it. however, the 8500 is very minimal.

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post #295 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

LG's 65" set is only 120hz, Vizio is junk, The Samsung 65D8000 is nothing more than a re-badged 65C8000 (I owned a 65C8000 a few months ago and returned it), and the Panasonic VT30 (IMO) is 'just ok'. So it would seem there is no other uber-high-end 65"/70" panel worth buying besides the Elite at present.

Sony 65" HX929 is delayed but it may challenge Elite when comes.

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post #296 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 10:53 AM
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Especially if its a lot cheaper but offers same pq

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post #297 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 11:22 AM
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Is there any halo effect on this tv due the local dimming?
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post #298 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Da_RiFiC View Post

This tv really is way to expensive, why don't they make smaller models.
.

Because videophile set + small set makes no sense. Videophiles are rare enough to begin with. Unless you are sitting just a few feet from your small TV, you can't enjoy the different between a mid-market set and a videophile-quality set.

So basically small videophile-quality sets are a niche within a niche. Take out the portion of those people who are cheap, "I'm never spending $3000 for a 50" set" (which is what it would cost), and such a product makes no sense at all.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #299 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 12:04 PM
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Is there any halo effect on this tv due the local dimming?

I heard yesterday in the podcast of Leo Laporte, the online editor of hometheater.com he was saying that this tv doesn't suffer from the halo effect. Plus he was praising this tv and he thinks the black levels seems to surpass the pioneer kuro.

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post #300 of 14574 Old 09-11-2011, 12:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by centauro74 View Post

I heard yesterday in the podcast of Leo Laporte, the online editor of hometheater.com he was saying that this tv doesn't suffer from the halo effect. Plus he was praising this tv and he thinks the black levels seems to surpass the pioneer kuro.

Yes, it has been reported by most everyone whose opinions matter, that the Kuro Killer 70X5 does indeed kill the Kuro at black level. However, that has been the case for most all of the recent local dimming sets. I think most Kuro fanboys would even agree to that. About the only slight advantage it has left is viewing angle, and this is only when compared directly to the 60X5 which suffer worst off-axis viewing than the 70X5 because of the smaller size.
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