Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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Old 09-12-2011, 03:19 PM
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With the experience I have had using 360's on multiple displays over the years, I have found that changing the Color settings from either RBG to YCbCr or vica versa usually fixed any video problems I had. Also, I never use Display Discovery as I find it is one more link in the chain to worry about. I also use Standard Reference Levels. Never had a 3D TV, though, so not sure if the 3D settings on the Xbox could also be the problem.

Not sure if this little info will help, but if it does good luck!
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Old 09-12-2011, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo; View Post

Yes, yes, plasmas were terrible forever, which is why pretty much everyone in Hollywood got a Kuro. Clearly, they hated the unnatural picture, but, well, they had to have something to watch the movies they were making. So they suffered.

Now, at last, they can suffer a little less, but they'll have to trust a room full of know nothings, including several of the most-respected ISF trained folks in the country, like Kevin Miller, D-Nice, etc. Since these "fools" suffered with their terrible Kuros for so long, perhaps this crew of "people in a room" can fool them for a few years on this Sharp Elite, eh?

Did I sum it up well?

Francis Ford Coppola owns a Panasonic Plasma (he probably uses it to watch the news)http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...d_is_tiresome/ .

The pro's in Hollywood are movietheater fans not flatscreenfans, for them a projector/movietheater seems to be the right choice. Hollywood folks don't take the flatscreen stuff as serious as we do, wouldn't be surprised if most of them don't even know what a KURo is.
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Old 09-12-2011, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman896 View Post

Hello everyone, I just recently picked up the 60" Elite and am having a problem when connecting an Xbox 360 to it. I'm going to just copy/paste a few of my posts on another site here incase someone here at AVS may be able to help. If it seems a little disjointed it's because I'm being lazy and copy/pasting instead of retyping everything.

I'd like to comment that I hooked up an Xbox 360 to this set and noticed a very strange problem. The picture would go very dim as if one of the pixels was turning off or that the backlight was dimming overall. When I switched from Elite Pure to Game mode the picture was restored to its vivid appearance. However after about 20 minutes of gaming it dimmed again at a seemingly random time (during gameplay). So I quick shifted from Game to whatever mode is above it, then back to game again and the vivid picture was once again restored. Really not sure what is causing this. The game was Madden NFL 12, the Xbox was connected via an HDMI cable (Standard not high speed) and it is a new "S" console. Anyone else experience this?

EDID is under "Display Discovery" and I have it set to enabled. I also made sure OPC is off on the TV settings menu. Despite all these changes the screen still flashes bright-dim rapidly whenever a new screen boots on the system. For example it flashes when the Dash board boots up, it will about 50/50 pick one of the 2 options to ultimately stop on. Example: Flashing (2 seconds rapidly) --> Dim or Flashing 2 seconds rapidly--> Bright (normal). It will then stay with whichever of the 2 it seemingly "picked" until it has to boot a video or game. For instance I then went into the Zune Video player and loaded the Gears 3 gameplay trailer. It flashes rapidly when the video starts and then will pick one and play the video. It actually changed to dim mode during the video about 30% way through and stayed that way for the remainder. When I dropped back to dash board it flashed and was bright (normal) again. However when I tried the whole process again I got the same results except now it picked dim when I dropped back to dash board. So right now I'm looking at the X360 dash in what looks like nearly 0 brightness and in the entire time I've been typing this post, it has not changed back to bright so the image looks pretty terrible.

I'm sure those of you who are reading that last comment may be a little confused by what I was trying to say. I've made a video demonstrating the issue I'm talking about to clear it up. Let me know what you guys think after seeing it, I appreciate your input.


Video Link: youtu(DOT)be/T3NUPkAx9Qk

Thanks for any input you guys may have on this,
Craig

there is a fw coming out in a few days...hopefully this will address my flickering issue and your problem as well.

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Old 09-12-2011, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

Francis Ford Coppola owns a Panasonic Plasma (he probably uses it to watch the news)http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...d_is_tiresome/ .

The pro's in Hollywood are movietheater fans not flatscreenfans, for them a projector/movietheater seems to be the right choice. Hollywood folks don't take the flatscreen stuff as serious as we do, wouldn't be surprised if most of them don't even know what a KURo is.

I think maybe you missed the intention of my post.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 09-12-2011, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo; View Post

I think maybe you missed the intention of my post.

That might be. Nevertheless, i allways like to point out that Hollywood, especially the guys who make the movies, does do not care about flatscreentech.
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Old 09-12-2011, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by subgenius37 View Post

This is going to sound really weird, since everyone here including myself, is interested in the overall quality of the picture. However the WAF (wife approval factor) is caught up to some degree with the Skype functionality. Has anyone with one of these screens bought the skype camera and set it up?

I posted several times about the Skype capability in the original "Kuro Killer" thread that predated this one. You may want to check those out. But yes, I ordered the "official" Skype camera and have it here at the house. Now I'm just waiting for the 70inch Elite to be delivered by VE next week. About 9 days and counting. But you'll notice under Downloads on elitelcdtv.com that they have a specific User Manual for the Skype capability. It's worth a read if you haven't already. It will answer everything you need to know. I will be using the Skype functionality for my work, where we often do collaboration via video conferencing. And of course for staying in touch with relatives all over the world.

Brian
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Old 09-12-2011, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

The best analogy I can give you is that I gave up arguing with the kooks that insisted 9/11 was a U.S. government plot. When people turn their backs on factual evidence, I've learned to walk away.

I never saw factual evidence, only faked ******** in the official report.

Prof. Dr. Turrican M.D.
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Old 09-12-2011, 06:49 PM
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This is for the non-professional videophiles out there, by which I mean the people that are really into TV, HD, home theater, etc but don't really know/care about gamma level or whatever - they just want the picture to look as good as it can.

I went and saw the 70" Elite at Best Buy today, and I was impressed. It reminded me of when I saw HDTV for the first time. I can say it was head and shoulders above any other display I have seen before. Everything looked so lifelike, so clear, so mesmorizing. When the 80" comes out, I'll be bringing one home.

For reference, I have a 73" Mits WD-73833 (movie room), a Samsung UN55C8000 (living room), and a Samsung PN50C490 (bedroom) at home.
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Old 09-12-2011, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

I never saw factual evidence, only faked ******** in the official report.

Like I said, I don't argue any longer with fringe conspiracy theorists. Have a good time. Let's keep this thread to discussions on the Elite and not flat earth theories.
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Old 09-12-2011, 08:55 PM
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DVDGuru, Do you still have your packaging? I ask this because I too thought I did not get the 3D kit. However, it isn't a kit. It's just 2 individual white boxes with a pair of glasses in each and they are inserted into one of the bottom sections of styrofoam. VERY easy to miss.

Scott J.
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Old 09-12-2011, 09:47 PM
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Thanks Scott but yeah they missed inserting them into the styrofoam on mine Just my luck as I had Tron, Avatar, RE:4 and Alice in Wonderland just sitting there ready to check out after the delivery guys left. Talk about torture lol Elite customer service is looking into finding a replacement kit which I hope is found quickly and shipped overnight

Oh, and the Xbox setting worked. I turned off the Display Discovery feature and it fixed the black level. But on the PS3 no such luck. Even if I set it to YCbCr it's really dark on God of War 3, etc. I did bump up the brightness on GOW3 just to try it out and WOW, the immersion on a game like that with a 70" is amazing. I tried a first person shooter as well and got a little seasick at first. I know I'll get used to that after my brain adjusts to the screensize.

Elite PRO-70X5FD!

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Old 09-12-2011, 09:56 PM
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GOW3 on a 70" Elite. Sounds impressive. How's the lag on it? Does game mode disable the local dimming?
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Old 09-12-2011, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Do you not feel that it's a problem when the display cannot hold its calibrated white level depending on picture content? Set it to reference with a 1% area pattern (as you do for monitors) and track the brightness as pattern size increases. It took a lot of searching to find, but here is some factual evidence I remember being posted on the boards:

Source


So a 9G Kuro drops 60% brightness and the 9.5G drops 40%, though it at least maintains a stable brightness up to almost 50% APL compared to 20-25% with the 9G.

An LCD follows the reference line as image brightness is unaffected by picture content.

As per your link, I assume you know this is due to ABL.

And you should also read xrox post just 2 post above your link, for a more complete "picture". And with local dimming the chart for LCD should be somewhat amended:

Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

As far as I know, all power on demand devices (CRT, Plasma, and even large OLED) use some sort of ABL. The main reason in to stabalize power consumption. It is also advantageous to the viewer for two reasons.

1 - Ability to have super high peak brightness at very low APL enables high contrast images.

2 - Minimize eye fatigue since our eyes are sensitive to average brightness (switching from a low APL to a high APL can be painfull unless the brightness is changed dynamically). Essentially with ABL the average brightness is stabalized (see plots below)

The downside is that the ABL can be too aggressive on some Plasmas causing the viewer to notice the dimming at high APL. Also, in bright ambient light the effect can really impact image quality due to the low average brightness at high APL.

Check out these plots.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post15483794

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtack View Post

I personally hope the new Sharp Elite line wipes the floor with my 151FD -- if not this generation then a future one -- because if and when my Kuro finally gives up the ghost, I would be seriously annoyed if the best display available to replace it was inferior.

+1 I am not exactly excited to have a used TV as a replacement
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Old 09-12-2011, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

As per your link, I assume you know this is due to ABL.

And you should also read xrox post just 2 post above your link, for a more complete "picture". And with local dimming the chart for LCD should be somewhat amended

That image is from the Advanced Plasma Development Center, and they set the LCD to 500nt, rather than 100nt, which is the "average screen brightness" they say is a benefit of the ABL. Obviously an unbiased source though.

If it is so advantageous to have the image dim when the picture gets brighter, why did Pioneer change the 9.5G Kuros to reduce this effect?
Why is it a requirement of broadcast monitors that they do not do this?

A bright image is supposed to be brighter than a dark one.
LED local dimming does not affect this at all.
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Old 09-13-2011, 12:01 AM
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'If it is so advantageous to have the image dim when the picture gets brighter, why did Pioneer change the 9.5G Kuros to reduce this effect?"

God, again, you and irkuck need to go back to school for Logic 101. Just because they reduced the effect doesn't mean the effect isn't beneficial to an extent.

Everyone stop failing argument 101. "After this, therefore because of this" is a failed argument. It's wrong. Period. Just because something occurred doesn't mean it occurred for the reason you wish it occurred. Could it have? Yes, it could have. It could also have occurred due to sunspots, the rotation of the earth, random chance, terrorist plots, an evil cabal, 12-year-old girls or any number of other reasons.

If you want to show causation, show causation. Stop pretending that showing things in sequence proves causation. It doesn't.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 09-13-2011, 12:24 AM
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Rogo, instead of talmudic deliberations there is much more constructive path of patience and real testing: waiting until the 65HX929 arrives and comparing it calibrated with the Sharp. Based on pics Sharp looks good only in the THX mode but then its juicy yellow subpix is not used which suggests technology is overblown. Based on rumor Sony has some extra tweaks for the 65" to elevate its PQ. Add reflectivity concerns and result is only side-by-side comparison will tell if Sharp is king or not.
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Old 09-13-2011, 12:33 AM
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Less than 1% change in brightness between 12.5% APL and 87.5% APL is tolerated for a broadcast monitor. Being generous, it looks like a 25% drop in brightness with the KRP.

An LCD, LED backlit or not, maintains brightness at the same level regardless of APL.


The only time where this behaviour is "advantageous" is when you improperly set up your display to 500nt for peak white and try to watch it in anything but a sun-filled room... as APDC set up their test.

And for what it's worth, if you want that behaviour from the display, though I can't see why anyone would, it is an option on many LCDs now. "Auto Light Limiter" on the HX900, though I have no idea how aggressive it is, as there is no reason to use it.



You will also find that APDC created a "standardised" MPRT test that was specifically tuned so that motion in the test was as fast as a plasma could handle and still score top marks, with LCDs falling behind. (this was back when 60Hz was the only option for LCD and they were essentially capped at 300 lines or whatever it was) Then last year when Panasonic actually did something about improving the motion handling of their displays with new phosphors, they decided to increase the speed to a level which showed the new displays resolving 1080 lines again, with the older "1080" displays now scoring lower on the test.

Sure, it's nice to see that things are improving, but it's intentionally misleading to tailor the test specifically to the displays that you are wanting to show in a good light.

And with them only measuring PDP/LCD displays, there's really no useful information coming out of the tests. OK, plasma may have measured better than LCD in those tests (it would be interesting to see what a high refresh rate, backlight scanning LCD scores now...) but how does that compare to CRT? What about DLP even?
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Old 09-13-2011, 12:40 AM
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more pictures please
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Old 09-13-2011, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

'If it is so advantageous to have the image dim when the picture gets brighter, why did Pioneer change the 9.5G Kuros to reduce this effect?"

God, again, you and irkuck need to go back to school for Logic 101. Just because they reduced the effect doesn't mean the effect isn't beneficial to an extent.

Everyone stop failing argument 101. "After this, therefore because of this" is a failed argument. It's wrong. Period. Just because something occurred doesn't mean it occurred for the reason you wish it occurred. Could it have? Yes, it could have. It could also have occurred due to sunspots, the rotation of the earth, random chance, terrorist plots, an evil cabal, 12-year-old girls or any number of other reasons.

If you want to show causation, show causation. Stop pretending that showing things in sequence proves causation. It doesn't.

If you don't like it then don't read it. No one is forcing you to. I for one welcome there debate. (besides the 9-11 BS) They are speaking on points which matter to them. Which I find interesting. People like to point out pros and cons that matter to them. Maybe won't for the next guy but someone pays is listening to the words. If they are wrong. So be it. If they are right. Great!

Back on topic. Gamers. How has this set been working? Input lag high? I'm very sensitive to it. I pray it's better then the 8500.
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Old 09-13-2011, 01:31 AM
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@irkuck, I must've missed the point where I said something negative about the 65HX929. Perhaps you can find that post for me. It might be every bit as good as the Sharp. I'm pretty sure if you use the AVS search function, you'll find a post by me suggesting that it's almost certainly going to be nearly as good since both are likely to perform very admirably at most critical functions. It's also going to be a lot less expensive. And smaller.

None of that changes the fact that arguing that "since Beyonce got pregnant after 9/11, her pregnancy was caused by 9/11" is still invalid argumentation.

@JukeBox, opinions are like rectal orifices -- everyone sure does have one. That part isn't the issue. The issue is that there is no license that says you can be dumb and I won't call you on being dumb. If you don't want to read it, don't read it. This has nothing to do with debate or pros and cons, it has to do with failures of logic. I disagree with irkuck on a lot of things (and agree with him on many things). 99% of them that disagreement is what it is. When he starts going all post hoc ergo propter hoc on me, I call him on it.

And then he hits back with the Talmud, which is a reference that is lost on me, even as a Jewish person.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

@irkuck, I must've missed the point where I said something negative about the 65HX929. Perhaps you can find that post for me. It might be every bit as good as the Sharp. I'm pretty sure if you use the AVS search function, you'll find a post by me suggesting that it's almost certainly going to be nearly as good since both are likely to perform very admirably at most critical functions. It's also going to be a lot less expensive. And smaller.

Hmm, you seem to exclude the possibility that 65HX929 might be actually better than Sharp? It seems there is quite sharp hype surruonding Sharp.

Quote:
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And then he hits back with the Talmud, which is a reference that is lost on me, even as a Jewish person.

Isn't the status of 'talmudic' bit like 'kosher' i.e. extending its original meaning to other situations? In this case you make parables about general logic and causations suggesting having ultimate interpretation and sending others to 101.
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

Sharp must of pulled that rep out of the cracker jack box....wtf...

Listening to her was brutal !!

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Old 09-13-2011, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Rogo, instead of talmudic deliberations there is much more constructive path of patience and real testing: waiting until the 65HX929 arrives and comparing it calibrated with the Sharp. Based on pics Sharp looks good only in the THX mode but then its juicy yellow subpix is not used which suggests technology is overblown. Based on rumor Sony has some extra tweaks for the 65" to elevate its PQ. Add reflectivity concerns and result is only side-by-side comparison will tell if Sharp is king or not.

Based on some recent posts that also include discussions with some folks at Sharp, it's not entirely clear that the yellow subs are actually shut off in THX mode. In fact, someone indicated you can clearly see, with a magnifying glass, the yellow subs firing away in THX mode. So I would say we need more evidence as to what is actually going on in THX mode before saying this case is closed. It's amazing to me, at this late date, there's still even some question about it.

Further, I wouldn't draw any conclusions about the 'look' of UNcalibrated THX modes vs UNcalibrated non-THX modes...especially from pictures. If we were to take Rad's pix literally, the 'pure' mode, although obviously too red/blue, seem to be easily correctable with calibration.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Rogo, instead of talmudic deliberations there is much more constructive path of patience and real testing: waiting until the 65HX929 arrives and comparing it calibrated with the Sharp. Based on pics Sharp looks good only in the THX mode but then its juicy yellow subpix is not used which suggests technology is overblown. Based on rumor Sony has some extra tweaks for the 65" to elevate its PQ. Add reflectivity concerns and result is only side-by-side comparison will tell if Sharp is king or not.

actually, it has been confirmed that the Y subpixel is NOT deactivated in thx mode.

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Old 09-13-2011, 06:18 AM
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good God was she F'n annoying or what? You could tell that she didn't know nothing about the product only what she read from a brochure. Did Sharp blew all of their money on these Elite's that they couldn't afford to hire a proper representative? Couldn't stand that stupid sheepish smile.
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

If you don't like it then don't read it. No one is forcing you to. I for one welcome there debate. (besides the 9-11 BS) They are speaking on points which matter to them. Which I find interesting. People like to point out pros and cons that matter to them. Maybe won't for the next guy but someone pays is listening to the words. If they are wrong. So be it. If they are right. Great!

Back on topic. Gamers. How has this set been working? Input lag high? I'm very sensitive to it. I pray it's better then the 8500.

The debate is fine, but they should start their own thread. It does not belong in the Official Elite 70X5 Kuro Killer thread.
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Old 09-13-2011, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by sycore View Post

The debate is fine, but they should start their own thread. It does not belong in the Official Elite 70X5 Kuro Killer thread.

+1

I miss the days when an Owners thread actually meant those who owned or had at least ordered, or intended to order, the product and were awaiting delivery. I for one would love to see a forum where I can provide tips on the product, listen to other people's tips on the product, and not have 80% noise in my way. For those who don't know or woke up here for the first time in the last 2 years, there were many Owners threads on AVS where Owners threads meant Owners. I know, I participated in several of them. There are other threads that can be used to argue about different technologies guys. Let's let owners have their home base a bit more, that's all.

Just my 3 cents (inflation),
Brian
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Old 09-13-2011, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

actually, it has been confirmed that the Y subpixel is NOT deactivated in thx mode.

Thank you. I've been first who was guessing this based on the mesmerizing pic but somebody gave me cold shower for this and I submitted to his opinion. My pleasure to repeat my guess & pic :



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Quattron yellow subpixels in action???

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Old 09-13-2011, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Additional screen shots of the menu system.













Intelligent Variable Contrast images from demo mode.




Purity Test

Viewing Angle Test

 

Sharp Elite PRO- 70X5FD 
Pioneer Elite VSX- 52 (A/V receiver)
Pioneer Elite BDP3FD (Blu-Ray) Player
Surround sound system: B&W (2) CM8's, (1) CENTER CHANNEL, (2) CM1 BOOKSHELF MONITORS's, (1) ASW10CM ACTIVE SUBWOOFER.
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Old 09-13-2011, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

That might be. Nevertheless, i allways like to point out that Hollywood, especially the guys who make the movies, does do not care about flatscreentech.

And how do you know this? Have you spoken to many of the Hollywood directors and producers?
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