Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by sycore View Post

The debate is fine, but they should start their own thread. It does not belong in the Official Elite 70X5 Kuro Killer thread.

Good thing they're not debating in the "Official Elite 70X5 Kuro Killer" thread (pretty sure that thread got axed ).....they're debating in the "Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners" thread.
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post #392 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 09:07 AM
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I've had the 60" Sharp Elite for about a week now. I didn't want to mention anything until I had more time under my belt and the 'honeymoon period' was over. For me the honeymoon period lasts a few days.

So to some degree my viewpoints are a bit unique in that I've owned the 929 and now the Elite. I have no bias toward either unit, and as a videophile I simply want the best picture available. So with that said, here's my take on how these two sets stack up:

Aesthetics- I'm not sure why I'm even mentioning this since it is so subjective, but I thought some might be curious. I would give the edge to the 929 and it's monolithic design. However I will say the Sharp is better looking than I thought it would be. It's no slouch in the design department and refraining from the use of a glossy bezel didn't hurt it in the aesthetics department.

Screen Glare- Yeah, it's there, and it's somewhat worse on the Elite. I see more reflections in the screen than I did with the 929. It makes me more aware of point sources of light and the need to squelch those areas by pulling shades etc. That's not to say the 929 was devoid of them either, but it wasn't quite as bad.

Screen Size- I do appreciate the extra 5" and even that difference creates a more engaging experience. My wife was initially opposed to the larger display thinking it might overpower the room. I told her if it really looked too big for the area, I would have it wall-mounted. That made her happy. But I tried an interesting experiment, that wound up being pretty funny. She had no idea I actually decided to get the Elite and once it was delivered and set up I said nothing. She came home that day, walked past the display and later, while I was watching, never noticed a new set was there (even when I asked her what she thought about a given scene)!

Halos- This is one of the biggest disparities in the actual performance between the two. The Elite is unquestionably much better controlled in this area. Viewed on-axis there are virtually no halos on any material, at any time. Even bright, blazing channel logos show almost no halos. This was one area where even on-axis I could seen some halos on the 929. Off-axis the Elite is again more controlled than the 929 and its immunity to this spreads over a greater off-axis area.

DSE- This was probably the single greatest annoyance for me with the 929. Not a deal-break by any means, but an annoyance. I am probably more sensitive to this than many, but I see it in varying degrees on every flat panel I've seen...including my Pioneer Pro 151. On the 929, it was quite obvious on a full field white screen and, as expected, during camera pans with sports broadcasts. The Elite has far less of it, but I can still see it and it's certainly not perfect. Interestingly, a full white screen on the Elite shows amazing uniformity, but this does not necessarily translate to immunity in the area of DSE. I don't know how much sample to sample variation there is in this regard, but I can tell you my friend's 55" 929 exhibited less DSE and better white field uniformity than mine.

Color- This is a tough one and keep in mind that neither display was ISF'd. I used the 'eyeball approach' (I've got a good eye for color) and did the best I could with both the color temperature control & CMS controls on the Elite while using my ISF'd Pro 151 as a 'reference'. On the 929, with fewer controls at my disposal, I used only the color temperature controls with the 151 again my reference. The Sony was set to Warm 2 and the Elite to both "THX Movie" as well as "Movie".

From what I've seen, the color is really close on both with a slight edge to blue rendition on the Elite. To my eyes it only seemed that blue deviated to any degree on the 929. I suspect the Elite will calibrate better than the 929 based on nothing more than the myriad of controls available. I'm not sure what calibration controls are available to the ISF techs via the service menu on the 929, but the Elite probably requires no delving into a service menu.
One thing I did notice (that made me question about the yellow sub-pixel controversy) was the hyped nature of yellows before I touched that up.

Yellows are beautiful to look at on the uncalibrated Elite, but they really are a 'bit much' and make me think that even in THX mode they're doing their thing. Once tamed, they look accurate to me. There's no doubt in my mind that I'll still benefit from an ISF calibration.

Black Levels- Without question, neither of these displays are a slouch in this department and both are fully capable of the much sought after 'inky blacks' that make a picture pop so much. With that said, I'd again give the edge to the Elite, but that's only visible in some scenes and will generally go totally unnoticed IMO. But I'd still label the Elite as the 'ultimate in black levels' with the 929 a close, really close 2nd.

Viewing Angles- I have to say this one was my biggest surprises and it may be due to the relatively small room it's been placed in. I saw little to no difference in viewing angle between these two great displays. I was really expecting a significant increase in viewing angle, but I haven't seen it. YMMV depending on the room it's placed in and I'd have to guess the edge goes to the Elite (based on all the comments I've seen) in a more spacious environment. To be fair, for reasons I can't explain, it seemed my viewing angle increased over time with the 929, so it's possible my perception of this may change with the Elite over time.

Motion Handling- I'm having a hard time with this one. Without viewing the same material at the same time, it's really hard to remember precisely how the 929 handled a given scene. Both are very good and I'm reluctant to say which seems to handle this better.

3D- I had forgotten to mention this (thanks Suzook) and it's probably because 3D is not a big deal to me. But with that said, 3D was actually one of the more significant differences I saw. The 929's 3D was very good, but prone at times to ghosting. That could be annoying for some. The Elite, using the same disc, showed absolutely no ghosting whatsoever. Pretty impressive...too bad I'm not a big fan!

Overall value- Only the prospective buyer can answer that question. On a pure 'picture quality per dollar' perspective, I'd have to give the edge to the Sony. How could you not? If the 'value proposition' turns to pure picture quality and squeezing that last whatever % improvement, the edge goes to the Elite IMO...as long as you're willing to spend the extra bucks. Both are fantastic displays and it's hard to envision many being disappointed with either...yes, even die-hard plasma lovers like me.

Just as a final thought, I seem to be watching my 151 very little these days. Watching the U.S. Open over the weekend, there was no escaping that the picture on the Elite was much more engaging and looked far more like an outdoor, sunny event. The ability to ramp up whites while still maintaining amazing black levels, creates a picture that just explodes off the screen. That's true with either the 929 or the Elite.

I have to thank Robert @VE for his support through this 'display adventure'.
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post #393 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 09:11 AM
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Ken

great review and appreciated. One thing I have found lacking in most of the reviews are impressions on 3d on the Elite. Can you compare the two for us?

Thank you
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post #394 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 09:11 AM
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I tend to agree with those comments so far with my 70". I'm still giving it a few days to get used to it but so far so good Oh, and I went HARDCORE yesterday and moved the 70" down on the wall to where the middle of the screen is at eye level. Now the bottom of the tv is only around 1.5 feet off the floor and I have to go to a welding shop and have my center channel stand CUT and lowered The things we do for perfection lol

Oh, and talk about customer service! I called the Elite line yesterday to tell them all the stuff that was missing including the 3D kit. Well, fedex just delivered a box so it was less than 24 hours between calling and receiving the parts. BRAVO. I checked out the following in 3D so far: Tron, RE:4, Alice in Wonderland and Piranha. I'm no 3D pro but I saw an exceptional 3D image and am very pleased. I can only base my experience for 3D viewing on what I've seen at my local DLP theater but it was better than at the theater for sure. The image was bright enough that shadow detail wasn't lost (like at the theater) and it was beautiful and had depth, clarity, etc. The only thing that didn't please me was that they put the 3D sensor at the BOTTOM of the tv. So, my center channel is partially in the way and will have to be placed even lower. This is an oversight by them IMO as this tv is designed for the HT crowd! Most HT people are going to try to hang this tv at the proper height or as close to it as possible and will have a center channel speaker as well so I think they should move that sensor to the top of the tv for the next model year. If I tried to sit too low on the couch the center channel would block the IR signal and the screen would go blurry so that was annoying for sure. I'll move the center channel down today and have to get the stand cut to be lower but I'm really loving this mammoth screen at eye level!

Elite PRO-70X5FD!

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post #395 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by dvdguru View Post

I tend to agree with those comments so far with my 70". I'm still giving it a few days to get used to it but so far so good Oh, and I went HARDCORE yesterday and moved the 70" down on the wall to where the middle of the screen is at eye level. Now the bottom of the tv is only around 1.5 feet off the floor and I have to go to a welding shop and have my center channel stand CUT and lowered The things we do for perfection lol

Oh, and talk about customer service! I called the Elite line yesterday to tell them all the stuff that was missing including the 3D kit. Well, fedex just delivered a box so it was less than 24 hours between calling and receiving the parts. BRAVO. I checked out the following in 3D so far: Tron, RE:4, Alice in Wonderland and Piranha. I'm no 3D pro but I saw an exceptional 3D image and am very pleased. I can only base my experience for 3D viewing on what I've seen at my local DLP theater but it was better than at the theater for sure. The image was bright enough that shadow detail wasn't lost (like at the theater) and it was beautiful and had depth, clarity, etc. The only thing that didn't please me was that they put the 3D sensor at the BOTTOM of the tv. So, my center channel is partially in the way and will have to be placed even lower. This is an oversight by them IMO as this tv is designed for the HT crowd! Most HT people are going to try to hang this tv at the proper height and will have a center channel speaker as well so I think they should move that sensor to the top of the tv for the next model year. If I tried to sit too low on the couch the center channel would block the IR signal and the screen would go blurry so that was annoying for sure. I'll move the center channel down today and have to get the stand cut to be lower but I'm really loving this mammoth screen at eye level!

Great info dvdguru - since I see you're an Xbox 360 user, can you comment on which mode you are using for the Xbox input, and also how it's physically cabled (HDMI, Component?). Any special settings in the Xbox that was required - eg, are you using "RGB" or something else for the signal? Again, thanks a ton, great feedback.

Brian
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post #396 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 09:30 AM
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No prob! I have it set it to YCbCr with "detect display" turned off and it fixed the black level. I'm running hdmi out as well. No luck on the PS3 so far though.

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post #397 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Suzook View Post

Ken

great review and appreciated. One thing I have found lacking in most of the reviews are impressions on 3d on the Elite. Can you compare the two for us?

Thank you

Thanks, and I'm glad you reminded me as I forgot to mention that. I'm not a fan of 3D, but that was actually one of the significant differences between the two. With the 929, 3D was good, but I would see some significant ghosting at times. Using the same 3D disc, I saw absolutely no ghosting (as in zero) on the Elite.

So if that's important to someone, that could be a key issue.
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post #398 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 09:40 AM
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Ken, I love your approach. Tempered expectations while you were getting accustomed to the Elite and kept the discussion fair and balanced. Then after some time, a well thought out and useful comparison. So out of 14 pages I think we finally have 4-5 actual owner reports. Thank you owners. Looks like the 60" is in my future.
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post #399 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 09:43 AM
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Thanks Andy, much appreciated. I can't tell you how much the 'hype' bugged me at times!
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post #400 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by dvdguru View Post

The only thing that didn't please me was that they put the 3D sensor at the BOTTOM of the tv. So, my center channel is partially in the way and will have to be placed even lower.

Question: How much space is there from the bottom of the television (on the stand) and the screen? Just wondering if my center speaker will be blocking any of the screen since I might not be mounting this. This is specifically for the 60" if there is any difference.

Thanks.
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post #401 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 09:54 AM
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No idea there as I mounted mine as soon as it was removed from the box. On mine if I'm sitting up straight on the couch there's no problem. But as soon as I slump down a little or recline the seat a little the top of the center channel blocks the receiver just enough to mess up the signal.

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post #402 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 09:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AndyN View Post

Ken, I love your approach. Tempered expectations while you were getting accustomed to the Elite and kept the discussion fair and balanced. Then after some time, a well thought out and useful comparison. So out of 14 pages I think we finally have 4-5 actual owner reports. Thank you owners. Looks like the 60" is in my future.

@Ken: Congrats on the purchase of your Kuro Killer.

@Andy: Keep in mine there are reports that the viewing angle on the 60" 60X5 are obviously not as good as on the larger 70" 70X5. So if off-axis viewing is something you consider crucial, then it is something to consider in your future purchase. Also, I would wait for those Superbowl deals if you can.
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post #403 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 10:19 AM
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@Andy: Keep in mine there are reports that the viewing angle on the 60" 60X5 are obviously not as good as on the larger 70" 70X5.

Why would the viewing angle on the 60" not be as good as the 70"? If anything, I'd expect the 70" to be worse, as for a given viewing position offset the far side of the TV will be further away thus increasing the local viewing angle. Hell I've seen picture quality degradation on the far side of ~50" TVs just sitting 7' away and one seat to the side.

jeff
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Why would the viewing angle on the 60" not be as good as the 70"? If anything, I'd expect the 70" to be worse, as for a given viewing position offset the far side of the TV will be further away thus increasing the local viewing angle. Hell I've seen picture quality degradation on the far side of ~50" TVs just sitting 7' away and one seat to the side.

jeff

You can sit further back from the 70", increasing the perpendicular distance before the picture will start to drop off.
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post #405 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 10:39 AM
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Ken, you definitely kept that under the radar! Had no idea. Great review as these are the two sets I am considering also, except in 65" and 70". If both were the same size...70" I would just go with the cheaper one, but they aren't and I would prefer a 70" set. I do think the viewing angle is one of the best on an LED, at least on the 70". I was the only nutcase to walk back and forth to see the change in viewing angles and they were definitely better than those of my 65c8000 and looked to be better that the Sony. I am leaning towards the Elite as I do think it has an edge in a few areas and it is 70", but I want to wait for that $5K or so mark before pulling the trigger.

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post #406 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Thanks Andy, much appreciated. I can't tell you how much the 'hype' bugged me at times!

Outstanding Input Review Ken, after catching up reading the chatter arguments going on I'd forgotten what the hell thread I was on and so it was refreshing to see the value of your well rounded comparative analysis.

For now, I went with the 60" D8000 I setup last night since I got it so cheap and by 2012 Elite's debut I suspect I'll end up with both for the same price by then or less - a twoferone.

I'm happy with the D8000 so far as I got it for about a third of the Elite but for a 60" it seems so small and friggin skinny despite it being bigger in screen display size than my 57" the thin bezel is like looking through a window pane it is a beautiful designed package IMO and while the black levels may not match the Elite or Sony they blow away my 5 yr Sharp and good enough for now at the price I paid. I know I can handle a 70+" next year and just rotate panels.

I'm not going to get into any better than BS - enjoy your Elite's and 929's and I'll join the club next year with Gen2 Elite perhaps. One great surprise with the D8000 is I rarely see reflections unless I'm at a Sharp off-angle but head on about 98% of the time I don't see reflections whereas when I had a plasma they were present 24/7. I'm hoping in Gen2 Elite they add anti-reflective features to the Elite.

Enjoy your Elites folks and will be viewing the Flat Panel Shootout to see how everyone fares.

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post #407 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 11:24 AM
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Thanks Wes. Sounds like you made the right choice for your circumstances and I'm sure you'll enjoy the display! Best of luck. For the sake of clarity I should note the 929 is no longer in the house.
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post #408 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 11:27 AM
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Thanks Andy, much appreciated. I can't tell you how much the 'hype' bugged me at times!

Yes indeed, a very good, well thought out and balanced synapsis of this TV....well done!!

If I may, I am sure this thread will grow significantly in the upcoming days/months. I am not currently an owner of this PRO-60/70X5 but may be one very soon.

I would like to see, or perhaps suggest that someone create a "See post # X on this thread for all the specs and details". I am a Kuro owner and found it very useful to have a full list of all the menu settings/features and general comments about the TV's recommended settings.

Thanks again

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post #409 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 11:42 AM
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Excellent review, Ken.

Thank you for taking the time to share your findings.

Can you please give us YOUR opinion on the differences between the 151fd and the Elite 70?

Thanks in advance.
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post #410 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdguru View Post

No prob! I have it set it to YCbCr with "detect display" turned off and it fixed the black level. I'm running hdmi out as well. No luck on the PS3 so far though.

The Xbox is an RGB native device, you should not be using YCC with it. (and the television should have no problem handling an RGB input)
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post #411 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 12:13 PM
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The Xbox is an RGB native device, you should not be using YCC with it. (and the television should have no problem handling an RGB input)

This is correct.
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post #412 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 12:23 PM
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No idea there as I mounted mine as soon as it was removed from the box. On mine if I'm sitting up straight on the couch there's no problem. But as soon as I slump down a little or recline the seat a little the top of the center channel blocks the receiver just enough to mess up the signal.

Hi DVDguru- Since you mounted it to the wall, can you tell me how high the bottom of the TV is from the floor and how far are you sitting from the TV?

I am just trying to mount mine and wanted to get your thoughts on heights and distance.

Thank you
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post #413 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 12:49 PM
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Ken,

Thanks for the review and I'm surprised you no longer have the 929 as you were a pretty big defender of the set. As a current 929 owner would you say that the 60" Elite is worth twice the street price as the 55" 929? Trying to figure out if I should upgrade. I did like the two 70" sets I saw but there are no 60" units in the area for me to demo.

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post #414 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Dawgneck View Post

Excellent review, Ken.

Thank you for taking the time to share your findings.

Can you please give us YOUR opinion on the differences between the 151fd and the Elite 70?

Thanks in advance.

Thanks Dawgneck. I really don't have any experience with the 70" Elite, only the 60". Suffice is to say I prefer my viewing now on the Elite as opposed to my 151. With better black levels as brighter whites, it's hard not to be drawn to the image the Elite produces.
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post #415 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 01:00 PM
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God, Ken, you're such a shill!

Incidentally, I believe neither TV needs a trip to the service menu for proper calibration. Most high-end sets don't any more.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #416 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 141park View Post

Hi DVDguru- Since you mounted it to the wall, can you tell me how high the bottom of the TV is from the floor and how far are you sitting from the TV?

I am just trying to mount mine and wanted to get your thoughts on heights and distance.

Thank you

Hey, it's a hair under 16" from the floor to the bottom of the tv. I'm sitting approximately 12.5 feet away.

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post #417 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Thanks Wes. Sounds like you made the right choice for your circumstances and I'm sure you'll enjoy the display! Best of luck. For the sake of clarity I should note the 929 is no longer in the house.

I think thats a pretty clear statement to me
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post #418 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

Ken,

Thanks for the review and I'm surprised you no longer have the 929 as you were a pretty big defender of the set. As a current 929 owner would you say that the 60" Elite is worth twice the street price as the 55" 929? Trying to figure out if I should upgrade. I did like the two 70" sets I saw but there are no 60" units in the area for me to demo.

Please don't interpret my switch to feeling any differently about the 929 than what I've posted since I owned it. It is still a fabulous set with an incredible image. I was really feeling I wanted the extra size and I also wanted to see if the DSE could be minimized with the Elite. As I posted in the Sony thread, DSE was my biggest issue with the display.

But in no way would I hesitate recommending the 929 to a friend.

Now, is the Elite worth 2X the price of a 929? I think if you shop around you'll find the differential is not quite that bad. As to whether it's worth it to you, that depends on how much you'd appreciate the extra size with the extra edge in PQ in certain areas. As I said in my mini-review, nobody can say if the value is there other than the prospective purchaser. For some the answer will be an unequivocal 'no' and for others a resounding 'yes'.

Either way there really is no mistake in choosing either.
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post #419 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Suzook View Post

I think thats a pretty clear statement to me

Suzook, to be fair, having both displays was totally redundant. Do I prefer the Elite? Yes. But honestly, there is not a wide gap in PQ between the two. I do believe the Elite does some things better and for those that appreciate that, the price difference can be justified. For others, not so much.
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post #420 of 14597 Old 09-13-2011, 01:20 PM
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Keeping in mind that the rumored street price of the 65 is in the mid 5k range. I suspect the elite 70 will be had in the very low 6k range by xmas.
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Sharp Elite Black 70inch Pro 70x5fd Flat Panel 3d Led Hdtv , Sharp Elite Pro 60x5fd 3d Led Hdtv
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