Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 148 - AVS Forum
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post #4411 of 14585 Old 12-09-2011, 09:13 PM
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Reset my settings on all AV modes, no go, still have pulsing and shadow moving issues.

Told the engineer that I'm done testing and want to enjoy my tv....getting a replacement from Sharp


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post #4412 of 14585 Old 12-09-2011, 09:16 PM
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I just watched that scene. It looked normal. Maybe your AV receiver?

I received the 60" on Wednesday and am still in awe. So much better than the 65hx929 I returned to Amazon...

So far I watched Smurfs in 3d, Sunshine and a Charlie Brown Christmas.. The yellows on the Charlie Brown Blu-ray are amazing... The whites and blacks on Sunshine.. Wow.

No flickering backgrounds, dead pixels and just a slight amount of DSE. And the 3d is so much better than the Sony...
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post #4413 of 14585 Old 12-09-2011, 09:27 PM
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I own the Pioneer KRP-500M, a so-called Pioneer 9.5G, calibrated by the master D-Nice, the best panel Pioneer ever produced (along with the 101), which produces blacks considerably deeper than the 9Gs (like the 111 the C-Net review uses as reference). I was extremely interested to see the new Elite LCD in comparison, and was very favorably impressed when my friend brought his new one over and we could compare side-by-side. It blows away any LCD on the market, and the issues I hate with most LCDs (edge enhancement, blooming) are almost non-existent on this panel. I would prefer to own this over any Panny or Sammy, but my 500M is still king, especially in a dark room. Better blacks, sliightly better color accuracy, better shadow detail. The better blacks are immediately evident in a dark room with letter box BD, but we expected such.

I did notice the color issues immediately when watching Avatar BD, but they are relatively minor. Its blacks are excellent and beat everything but the 9G and 9.5G Elites. I love the design, pure Pioneer. The thin matte bezel is awesome. But the prices are somewhat ridiculous. Pioneer really raised the LCD bar, bravo. Wish they were still making plasma. I hope they fix that color issue though, that would help.

I did not notice any pulsing or other issues discussed herein, guess he got a good one.

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post #4414 of 14585 Old 12-09-2011, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonesy11 View Post

But the prices are somewhat ridiculous.

I'm a little blown away by the recurrence of this statement...c'mon, guys! Does no one remember how much a 60" Elite (PRO-141 or -151 cost when they came out?! They were $6500-$7000. I don't remember hearin' anyone b*tch about it then, and, considering the fact that in today's market LED-based LCDs typically cost significantly more than comparable plasma displays, I don't see why anyone is b*tchin' now. These sets cost less and are bigger. What gives?!

It's kinda funny...Most people use their television as a means to watch their favorite programming; I use my favorite programming as a means to watch my television.
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post #4415 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aguyingreene View Post

I just watched that scene. It looked normal. Maybe your AV receiver?

I received the 60" on Wednesday and am still in awe. So much better than the 65hx929 I returned to Amazon...

So far I watched Smurfs in 3d, Sunshine and a Charlie Brown Christmas.. The yellows on the Charlie Brown Blu-ray are amazing... The whites and blacks on Sunshine.. Wow.

No flickering backgrounds, dead pixels and just a slight amount of DSE. And the 3d is so much better than the Sony...

I've hooked it up bypassing the av all together and still get it in both my sets. I will try and get some video or a pic of it tonight if I can.
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post #4416 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

my wife is watching a soap as we speak, resetting makes know difference whatsoever. soaps are a perfect set-up for pulsing at least for me.

Just got my 60" Elite on Wednesday.

It's interesting you mentioned soaps. I also saw the pulsing on my TV for the first time when my mother was visiting and watching some soaps. I've only had the TV for 2 days so not sure how common it is on other sources. It might have something to do with the fact that soaps are shot on 60i video while film is 24p. Could also be the studio lighting employed on soaps.

I actually hit record on my DVR after I saw the pulsing so I could investigate later. I'll try to pull the recording off my DVR and upload somewhere so others can check it out. TV was in THX Movie mode and pulsing vanished when I disabled local dimming.

As for DSE, I also see it on panning shots of skies and hockey. But I've never seen an LCD of any kind that didn't have this problem. I'm not sure it's physically possible to build one without it. But of course the severity does vary from set to set. At this price point, it would be nice if Sharp could filter out the best panels at the factory instead of forcing people like thrang to go through the hassle of multiple exchanges. Maybe the cheaper Sharp panels actually have much worse DSE and this is the best we can expect even with hand-picked parts?

-Mark
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post #4417 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

Maybe the cheaper Sharp panels actually have much worse DSE and this is the best we can expect even with hand-picked parts?

There is no real evidence they are hand-picking panels. None.

How do I know? Well, it would be trivial to test for dead pixels as doubtless many panels are free of them. And yet many people have received Elites with dead pixels.

I'm not sure "DSE" is easily tested for as I'm still not really sure what it even is.

The overwhelming evidence -- and it really is overwhelming at this point -- is that they are taking panels off the line that pass whatever rudimentary QC they have and then making them into Elites. There is no doubt that Elites have a number of specific technologies implemented that make them superior TVs, but I'm referring only to the panels. And what we've seen anecdotally is that is that nothing is happening in terms of picking panels to find high-quality ones, especially reliable ones, or any such thing.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #4418 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

Ken, it'll be interesting to see how DK's user menu settings compare to your own findings.

I watched the review and it was predictably excellent, but I didn't see the written review. Did he post settings?
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post #4419 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by gutcheck2001 View Post


I don't see anything like this. Actually I watched it so many times now I can recite it to you. It looks fine to me?

There are a few people that see this kind of thing with plasmas and for them it's so bad they can't use plasma technology. I've never seen a good explanation as to what would be unique in a person's visual apparatus that would cause this issue. Certainly the vast majority of people don't see it. I've never seen it on either the Elite or any plasma I've ever owned, yet I have seen rainbows with DLP that many never see.
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post #4420 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by InsidiousFix View Post


The first set i had didn't have this at all. But it did have a more apparent shadow line that would stand out on sky and other lighter colored solid color backgrounds. This one has them too, but not as noticeable. But this set has them on a different side. So i would then assume they are capable of not having the shadow line since its not in the same position on this set?

Wow, that shadow line looks exactly like the line I had on my first Elite. Same width, same length and the same location. Is this a 60"?
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post #4421 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by InsidiousFix View Post


I am dealing with my dealer for as long as he isn't giving me grief, and so far they have been good. I just live about 50 miles from where I bought it and it's the busiest time if year for their industry I'm sure, so it just takes a week to get it scheduled. And I already talked to elite costumer service and they said they would take care of it if my dealer didnt want to do it. So I see no reason to go to the "media" at this point. They have a system in place to deal with these issues.

Well said. I don't think there's a need for 'hysteria' here or a '60 Minutes' segment. I believe that Sharp has shown amazingly good customer responsiveness at a level rarely seen in the industry.
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post #4422 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by InsidiousFix View Post

Also , on this set, I had to stop using kens settings because they were pumping way too much green. I had it on my first set and didn't see it. It was most apparent when I watched fellowship of the rings, during the snow mountain pass scene when the avalanche covers them. The people were as green and glowing as the ghosts are in return of the king. So I am assuming its this screens discoloration. Would be great if Someone with the Blu ray and using kens settings could put it on and verify. I have the extended version Blu ray set. I know there is some green issues with this disc anyway, but I never saw it like that.

Looks like I need to issue my first refund.

Seriously though, it sounds like the color balance on your new set is very different than your first. Did this 2nd set come directly from Sharp? I'm wondering if your new set might not have the color fix.
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post #4423 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by aguyingreene View Post

I just watched that scene. It looked normal. Maybe your AV receiver?

I received the 60" on Wednesday and am still in awe. So much better than the 65hx929 I returned to Amazon...

So far I watched Smurfs in 3d, Sunshine and a Charlie Brown Christmas.. The yellows on the Charlie Brown Blu-ray are amazing... The whites and blacks on Sunshine.. Wow.

No flickering backgrounds, dead pixels and just a slight amount of DSE. And the 3d is so much better than the Sony...

Interesting post. I came from the 55" 929 and agree the overall Elite PQ is definitely better, but you're the first I've seen coming from the 65" 929. What are your observations about the differences between the two?
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post #4424 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonesy11 View Post

I own the Pioneer KRP-500M, a so-called Pioneer 9.5G, calibrated by the master D-Nice, the best panel Pioneer ever produced (along with the 101), which produces blacks considerably deeper than the 9Gs (like the 111 the C-Net review uses as reference). I was extremely interested to see the new Elite LCD in comparison, and was very favorably impressed when my friend brought his new one over and we could compare side-by-side. It blows away any LCD on the market, and the issues I hate with most LCDs (edge enhancement, blooming) are almost non-existent on this panel. I would prefer to own this over any Panny or Sammy, but my 500M is still king, especially in a dark room. Better blacks, sliightly better color accuracy, better shadow detail. The better blacks are immediately evident in a dark room with letter box BD, but we expected such.

I did notice the color issues immediately when watching Avatar BD, but they are relatively minor. Its blacks are excellent and beat everything but the 9G and 9.5G Elites. I love the design, pure Pioneer. The thin matte bezel is awesome. But the prices are somewhat ridiculous. Pioneer really raised the LCD bar, bravo. Wish they were still making plasma. I hope they fix that color issue though, that would help.

I did not notice any pulsing or other issues discussed herein, guess he got a good one.

Actually I own a Kevin Miller ISF'd Pro 151 Kuro and disagree with you regarding black levels. The black levels on a properly adjusted Elite are both subjectively and objectively better than any Kuro. Most reviews have pointed that out too. Granted it's not a big difference, but it's most certainly visible. It's quite possible your buddy's settings were not ideal.

In its current iteration, I would agree the color accuracy of the Kuro is slightly better due to the cyan issue. Once that issue is resolved with the firmware update, that advantage will disappear too.

However, the vastly greater dynamic range of the Elite (with zero blooming), creates a much more engaging and impressive picture IMO. Not often mentioned, is the far greater energy savings of the Elite. My Kuro could noticeably warm up our living room while my Elite, in a much smaller room, runs so cool you'd never know it's on.

My wife and I just don't watch our Kuro anymore. She actually thinks we should sell it.
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post #4425 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Geickel View Post


I'm a little blown away by the recurrence of this statement...c'mon, guys! Does no one remember how much a 60" Elite (PRO-141 or -151 cost when they came out?! They were $6500-$7000. I don't remember hearin' anyone b*tch about it then, and, considering the fact that in today's market LED-based LCDs typically cost significantly more than comparable plasma displays, I don't see why anyone is b*tchin' now. These sets cost less and are bigger. What gives?!

Correct. I find these remarks generally come from people who either have no intention of buying the set or are looking for excuses to not buy. But hey, let's be honest, these displays are not cheap...the best rarely is.
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post #4426 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post


Just got my 60" Elite on Wednesday.

It's interesting you mentioned soaps. I also saw the pulsing on my TV for the first time when my mother was visiting and watching some soaps. I've only had the TV for 2 days so not sure how common it is on other sources. It might have something to do with the fact that soaps are shot on 60i video while film is 24p. Could also be the studio lighting employed on soaps.

I actually hit record on my DVR after I saw the pulsing so I could investigate later. I'll try to pull the recording off my DVR and upload somewhere so others can check it out. TV was in THX Movie mode and pulsing vanished when I disabled local dimming.

As for DSE, I also see it on panning shots of skies and hockey. But I've never seen an LCD of any kind that didn't have this problem. I'm not sure it's physically possible to build one without it. But of course the severity does vary from set to set. At this price point, it would be nice if Sharp could filter out the best panels at the factory instead of forcing people like thrang to go through the hassle of multiple exchanges. Maybe the cheaper Sharp panels actually have much worse DSE and this is the best we can expect even with hand-picked parts?

-Mark

Mark, are you using the THX mode when you see the pulsing? If not, try switching to that mode. On mine, THX totally eliminates the issue.
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post #4427 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

I'm a little blown away by the recurrence of this statement...c'mon, guys! Does no one remember how much a 60" Elite (PRO-141 or -151 cost when they came out?! They were $6500-$7000. I don't remember hearin' anyone b*tch about it then, and, considering the fact that in today's market LED-based LCDs typically cost significantly more than comparable plasma displays, I don't see why anyone is b*tchin' now. These sets cost less and are bigger. What gives?!

I agree. My 70X5 replaced a 5 year old 65" Panny plasma (600U). The street price I paid for the Elite was ~30% less than the street price for the 600U. PQ on the Elite is much better e.g black Level on the Panny measured .024 vs. the Elite's .0004. People need to put prices and PQ in the proper perspective. Very happy owner with no problems on the Elite.
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post #4428 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 06:26 AM
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Hey the CNET review says they viewed the 60" from 92 FEET! LOL!!!!

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, 65VT50
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post #4429 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by InsidiousFix View Post

Weird. I got a replacement 70 inch this week and it does it on this new set also. I took my copy to my friends and watched it in his 65 xbr and didn't see the yellow tracer. I will be getting a 3rd replacement set sometime in the next couple weeks as my new set has 3 pinkish basketball sized spots surrounded by a greenish tint. I took pics and sent it to my retailer and he is going to work with his buyer to make sure my next set doesn't have shadow lines( first set) or the discolored spots. I'll have to figure out what's causing the yellow distortion in the mean time. If anyone else has empire strikes back and could pop it in and let me know if you see it also. I'm just trying to figure out what's causing it on my end or if it's going to be like the pumping contrast, only on some sets.

Is the motion enhancement on?

I've notice a couple of times its become confused. While playing around with it on Tron (switching the setting multiple times) it actually started corrupting the image. At that point even turning off motion enhancement didn't restore the image again. Stopped the movie, started it back up, and everything was fine again. Steady state I watch in 120 low and haven't noticed an issue.
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post #4430 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post

Hey the CNET review says they viewed the 60" from 92 FEET! LOL!!!!

Man... that distance makes lots of TVS look great.

Glad to see C-net posted a more than favorable review. Now lets drop the price down and fix that color issue and we'll have a no questions new champ.

I don't know what I am doing! AHHHHHHH!!!!
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post #4431 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


I watched the review and it was predictably excellent, but I didn't see the written review. Did he post settings?

Ken, it's true. They are expensive, but relatively cheaper than the KUROs per square inch, so...but yeah, you still pay for what you get. Katzmaier did post his settings: http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_10...ateThreadPopup
Let us know what you think.

It's kinda funny...Most people use their television as a means to watch their favorite programming; I use my favorite programming as a means to watch my television.
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post #4432 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

Ken, it's true. They are expensive, but relatively cheaper than the KUROs per square inch, so...but yeah, you still pay for what you get. Katzmaier did post his settings: http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_10...ateThreadPopup
Let us know what you think.


I switched my settings to CNETs and found them an improvement on Kens, already excellent, settings.

The only thing I changed was turning on IVC low(to minimize the pulsing) and moving Contrast down to 29, which reduces some of the overblown lighter images that happen sometimes in that mode.
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post #4433 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

Man... that distance makes lots of TVS look great.

Glad to see C-net posted a more than favorable review. Now lets drop the price down and fix that color issue and we'll have a no questions new champ.

I actually think that review will upset some of the stone throwers that visit us from time to time!

But yes, it was a great review. As I mentioned in my recent post, David also confirms a deeper black than the Kuro. That's why I told that poster his buddy's set was not properly adjusted.
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post #4434 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

Ken, it's true. They are expensive, but relatively cheaper than the KUROs per square inch, so...but yeah, you still pay for what you get. Katzmaier did post his settings: http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_10...ateThreadPopup
Let us know what you think.

Thanks Geickel. It's weird that I didn't see it in his printed review.
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post #4435 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by hhtatum View Post

I switched my settings to CNETs and found them an improvement on Kens, already excellent, settings.

The only thing I changed was turning on IVC low(to minimize the pulsing) and moving Contrast down to 29, which reduces some of the overblown lighter images that happen sometimes in that mode.

I'm anxious to try his settings. I don't think I'll get a chance for awhile. Busy weekend and next week I'm traveling on business.

Edit: I can see I wouldn't use IVC as he had in his settings. I'm surprised he used that since it's always doing something 'on the fly'. Generally the pros stay away from settings like that.
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post #4436 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

I'm a little blown away by the recurrence of this statement...c'mon, guys! Does no one remember how much a 60" Elite (PRO-141 or -151 cost when they came out?! They were $6500-$7000. I don't remember hearin' anyone b*tch about it then, and, considering the fact that in today's market LED-based LCDs typically cost significantly more than comparable plasma displays, I don't see why anyone is b*tchin' now. These sets cost less and are bigger. What gives?!

When the Kuro came out it was so far ahead of the competition that it warranted the premium price. Today even though the Elite has the best PQ available, the competition is much closer and cheaper. A calibrated VT30 has a damn fine picture at a third of the price. Also, the economy is worse than it was back when the Kuro was released. The Elite line will always have the best tech available at the time, but Sharp is in the business of mass production, not large margin premium sales. This years Elite will definitely not hold the crown as a reference set as long as the Kuro.
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post #4437 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 09:35 AM
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Thanks Geickel. It's weird that I didn't see it in his printed review.

Ken,
It's not actually "in" the review. It's in a tiny window to the right side of the text on page 2 of the review.

It's kinda funny...Most people use their television as a means to watch their favorite programming; I use my favorite programming as a means to watch my television.
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post #4438 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 10:04 AM
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I have found Ken's settings to be too green as well. I started with his and then did some calibration via the WOW disc. That's not to say I don't appreciate the base line, Ken . I like THX mode a lot, but I do want to try to dial in one of the brighter modes for a punchier picture when required. I'm also interested in the Calman software since it can directly control the Elite, but no one here seems to be using it.

I'm away on business too and I have Elite withdrawals - shaking, flashbacks, etc.

I was at my brother's the other day and got to see his A3000 SXRD again. This is what I replaced and seeing it only reinforced my decision to buy.
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post #4439 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post

When the Kuro came out it was so far ahead of the competition that it warranted the premium price. Today even though the Elite has the best PQ available, the competition is much closer and cheaper. A calibrated VT30 has a damn fine picture at a third of the price. Also, the economy is worse than it was back when the Kuro was released. The Elite line will always have the best tech available at the time, but Sharp is in the business of mass production, not large margin premium sales. This years Elite will definitely not hold the crown as a reference set as long as the Kuro.

I think you make a fair point in general, but how is a $3000 VT30 a third of a $6000 Elite?

That being said, if this set sold for much less, we could probably kiss all of this Elite support business and hassle free multiple swapouts goodbye. I haven't needed a swapout, but that doesn't mean I don't want the safety net. I really hope the price doesn't bottom out and that the sets continue to sell well as I have a vested interest in being supported on the level that I was sold on.

Sorry, but there is not a set out there with the advantages of LCD and the quality of the Elite. The 65 929 is a nice set, but it's not on the Elite's level. The VT30's and D8000's are nice, but still don't even touch Kuro quality and still have all of the Plasma disadvantages. Bang for the buck, absolutely, but the right set for me? Not a chance.
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post #4440 of 14585 Old 12-10-2011, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

Just got my 60" Elite on Wednesday.

It's interesting you mentioned soaps. I also saw the pulsing on my TV for the first time when my mother was visiting and watching some soaps. I've only had the TV for 2 days so not sure how common it is on other sources. It might have something to do with the fact that soaps are shot on 60i video while film is 24p. Could also be the studio lighting employed on soaps.

I actually hit record on my DVR after I saw the pulsing so I could investigate later. I'll try to pull the recording off my DVR and upload somewhere so others can check it out. TV was in THX Movie mode and pulsing vanished when I disabled local dimming.

As for DSE, I also see it on panning shots of skies and hockey. But I've never seen an LCD of any kind that didn't have this problem. I'm not sure it's physically possible to build one without it. But of course the severity does vary from set to set. At this price point, it would be nice if Sharp could filter out the best panels at the factory instead of forcing people like thrang to go through the hassle of multiple exchanges. Maybe the cheaper Sharp panels actually have much worse DSE and this is the best we can expect even with hand-picked parts?

-Mark

Supposedly this is what they will do with the next exchange, but I don't know how much of a critical eye, or how many units they pull, to evaluate (well not at the factory, but at the customer serivce/engineering division in the Midwest)

The thing is, the dse is just worse on this set than anything else I've seen, except the sharp 735, which looked like it was used as a mudflap. I have several other flat panels (Sony, samsung, hanspree crap, toshiba, panasonic plasma), and am sitting in my local pizza parlor watching a no name maxent LCD - all have appreciably less or non-visible dse to my eye. And dse just ruin the picture because it makes your brain focus on the plane of the panel and not the image.


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