Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 236 - AVS Forum
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post #7051 of 14597 Old 02-15-2012, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholc2 View Post

It'll be great to see if they fixed the color issues and a new calibration report on these if they are fixed! We should hopefully find out soon!

Couple of posts up.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by drgee32 View Post

just got off the phone with elite support,the update is not for the cyan or pulsing(flickering issue)unfortunately,they told me there still working on it,this update was for the sets that were not powering back on and had to be reset


My ArgyllCMS/MadVR 3DLUT Creation Workflow
My Sharp Elite Movie THX AV Mode Settings
--Aug 2011 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
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post #7052 of 14597 Old 02-15-2012, 01:25 PM
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It does have the discrete power remote commands, though.
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post #7053 of 14597 Old 02-15-2012, 07:26 PM
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So very sad. I saw the popup and it got my hopes up.

I'll test for pulsing just in case the support rep was wrong.
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post #7054 of 14597 Old 02-15-2012, 08:06 PM
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No need for testing, pulsing is still alive and well.
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post #7055 of 14597 Old 02-15-2012, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post

No need for testing, pulsing is still alive and well.

Sad but true.
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post #7056 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post

No need for testing, pulsing is still alive and well.

Would it be safe to say that the new 945's due out later this year could have the same pulsing / cyan issues or can it be concluded that only the top of the line Elite models have this issue?

thank you,
Tony
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post #7057 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 11:07 AM
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Whatever you do, don't express your unhappiness with a firmware update that doesn't address the major Elite issues by suggesting you want to sell your TV. The moderators are apparently quite literal, and humorless.
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post #7058 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by rmongiovi View Post

Whatever you do, don't express your unhappiness with a firmware update that doesn't address the major Elite issues by suggesting you want to sell your TV. The moderators are apparently quite literal, and humorless.

They are very firmware those types of comments are concerned.

After seeing all the various current HD providers, I really, really miss Voom
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post #7059 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by frottage View Post

They are very firmware those types of comments are concerned.

Puny, very puny

Well, I've found where my calibration discrepancies were coming from. For some reason using the AVS HD 709 calibration BD I burned is not cutting it.

I finally got my Radiance back so I did a D65 709 calibration using the Radiance as the pattern source. Holy Molly! The CMS values I was getting were very different from what I got from the calibration BD, and I thought the Radiance was doing something weird.

Well, lo and behold, I ended up with a beautiful neutral actually grey scale with basically no banding and gorgeous more striking images and no apparent unintended coloring.

Wonder what the deal was with the BD calibration. Nothing seems to be broken in the Oppo 83SE to Elite HDMI connectivity and I'm using the same cabling.
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post #7060 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 12:36 PM
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That's interesting. What do you have the HDMI options set to in the Oppo? Do you autonegotiate or pick a particular color space/deep color?
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post #7061 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post


Puny, very puny

Well, I've found where my calibration discrepancies were coming from. For some reason using the AVS HD 709 calibration BD I burned is not cutting it.

I finally got my Radiance back so I did a D65 709 calibration using the Radiance as the pattern source. Holy Molly! The CMS values I was getting were very different from what I got from the calibration BD, and I thought the Radiance was doing something weird.

Well, lo and behold, I ended up with a beautiful neutral actually grey scale with basically no banding and gorgeous more striking images and no apparent unintended coloring.

Wonder what the deal was with the BD calibration. Nothing seems to be broken in the Oppo 83SE to Elite HDMI connectivity and I'm using the same cabling.

Nice, good job
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post #7062 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmongiovi View Post

That's interesting. What do you have the HDMI options set to in the Oppo? Do you autonegotiate or pick a particular color space/deep color?

I actually had 36-bit color originally, and when I got the too-warm white balance I went to auto, but it didn't make any difference.

I may check and see what else might affect it, but for that kind of visible impact you figure it would affect it all the time, not just for calibration, and the BD's and DVDs do not look affected with the TV uncalibrated or with the CNET settings. They really do look significantly better with the calibration using the Radiance patterns.
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post #7063 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 02:11 PM
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Is the Radiance auto as well?
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post #7064 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmongiovi View Post

Is the Radiance auto as well?

Yes. I actually went through every video, HDMI & CMS variable in the Radiance to make sure they were at default.

But the Radiance was out of the loop in my too-warm calibrations, and in the loop now only as the pattern generator.

The new calibration is outstanding with both the Oppo BD player and DirecTV.
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post #7065 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 03:00 PM
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Updated from 2.13 to 2.16 last night...calibrated with LD on for modes THX, ISF Day, and ISF Night to D65....and all is well now and the set finally looks perfect...the too warm temp issue is gone as well as the yellowish cast on skin tones

Confirmed, cyan and pulsing issues still exist.

My ArgyllCMS/MadVR 3DLUT Creation Workflow
My Sharp Elite Movie THX AV Mode Settings
--Aug 2011 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
--Nov 2012 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
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post #7066 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 04:35 PM
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So it sounds like 2.16 is supposed to fix the issue I had (won't power up, power light flashes) which led me to exchange it for another set.
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post #7067 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Updated from 2.13 to 2.16 last night...calibrated with LD on for modes THX, ISF Day, and ISF Night to D65....and all is well now and the set finally looks perfect...the too warm temp issue is gone as well as the yellowish cast on skin tones

Confirmed, cyan and pulsing issues still exist.

But there were no reported changes regarding color decoding in this firmware as far as I've seen...did I miss something?

So far I've got great greyscale calibration, but quite bad color tracking beyond the target stim (well, not really me, but done by Tom Huffman)

Ken, has Kevin calibrated your set, and if so, did he look at how the color tracks?

Thanks
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post #7068 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Updated from 2.13 to 2.16 last night...calibrated with LD on for modes THX, ISF Day, and ISF Night to D65....and all is well now and the set finally looks perfect...the too warm temp issue is gone as well as the yellowish cast on skin tones

Confirmed, cyan and pulsing issues still exist.

Sorry to say, but if you calibrated ISF modes then LD was very likely turned off. It automatically gets turned off when you enter ISF calibration with no way of controlling that, at least it does for me. Not that it restricts the calibration in any way that I have found, which of course would be silly. ISF modes are what I use and love.
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post #7069 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmongiovi View Post

Is the Radiance auto as well?

OK, here's what I just did. I was using the Radiance as the switcher from my sources going to the Elite's HDMI-1. I unplugged the DirecTV DVR from the Radiance and fed it to HDMI-2. I applied the ISF settings to HDMI-2. I'm getting the exact same great picture I was getting through the Radiance, so it was definitely not enhancing or modifying the signal.
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post #7070 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post

Sorry to say, but if you calibrated ISF modes then LD was very likely turned off. It automatically gets turned off when you enter ISF calibration with no way of controlling that, at least it does for me. Not that it restricts the calibration in any way that I have found, which of course would be silly. ISF modes are what I use and love.

Nope, I'm sure LD is on....because I was out of calibration mode when I measured.

Going in and out of ISF calibration mode is easy with ControlCal.

My ArgyllCMS/MadVR 3DLUT Creation Workflow
My Sharp Elite Movie THX AV Mode Settings
--Aug 2011 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
--Nov 2012 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
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post #7071 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post

I'm getting the exact same great picture I was getting through the Radiance, so it was definitely not enhancing or modifying the signal.

I wasn't wondering if the Radiance was modifying the signal. I'm trying to understand what might be behind your unsuccessful calibration using patterns from DVD versus your success with the Radiance.

But I do agree with the assessment that greyscale is fine but color tracking absolutely reeks. I don't want a fix for cyan, I want a fix for the whole color decoder. I wonder how you open a ticket with Sharp for that?
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post #7072 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Nope, I'm sure LD is on....because I was out of calibration mode when I measured.

Going in and out of ISF calibration mode is easy with ControlCal.

Ahhh! I misunderstood your post. You were refering to checking the calibration, not the actual calibration process. You calibrated with LD off, but checked the calibration afterwards with LD on. Gotcha! Yes, ControlCAL is a great thing! Thank you, Turbe!
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post #7073 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rmongiovi View Post

I wasn't wondering if the Radiance was modifying the signal. I'm trying to understand what might be behind your unsuccessful calibration using patterns from DVD versus your success with the Radiance.

But I do agree with the assessment that greyscale is fine but color tracking absolutely reeks. I don't want a fix for cyan, I want a fix for the whole color decoder. I wonder how you open a ticket with Sharp for that?

Thankfully now I have no color issues at all, greyscale or actual content (other than that cyan thinghy, of course ). How are you calibrating yours? What are you using as your calibration pattern source?
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post #7074 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 06:42 PM
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AVSHD. Greyscale tracks and looks fine. Colors look fine at 75%. Faces tend toward pale and yellow/greenish.

Everyone says "it's the source" but the funny thing is faces weren't yellowish with the last set....
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post #7075 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 07:14 PM
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Care to post your calibration settings?
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post #7076 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post


Thankfully now I have no color issues at all, greyscale or actual content (other than that cyan thinghy, of course ). How are you calibrating yours? What are you using as your calibration pattern source?

Are you using Chromapure? If so, perhaps run an advanced color management set of readings to see the issues with color tracking. Tom and I did this for several hours this weekend, both with the elite directly and with a lumagen mini 3d. 75% intensity was the better choice than 100, but regardless of which intensity we started with, only the initial intensity values were very good. Tracking from 25 to 100 was quite off for most primaries and secondaries (more luminance and saturation, less so hue if I recall correctly), so often colors appear undersaturated.

Maybe there's more combination of starting point settings we didn't try, as there are many permutations, and Tom was donating his time to really figure this set out...

10 point greyscale out of the elite directly was very good.

I reported the summary of the issues to Sharp, as I've been dealing extensively with them on the DSE/mura issue, and they replied back in less than a day asking to speak with Tom about the issue.

So we'll see, but it seems there is more than a cyan issue.
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post #7077 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 08:15 PM
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There's more than even that. I decided to start over with my calibration now that I've updated to 216 and my out of the box THX color temperature low is over 7200. Previously uncalibrated THX was around 6700. Full reset didn't fix it. Restoring 213 didn't fix it.

I'm very confused.
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post #7078 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post


Thankfully now I have no color issues at all, greyscale or actual content (other than that cyan thinghy, of course ). How are you calibrating yours? What are you using as your calibration pattern source?

There's no substitute for a professional ISF calibration by a pro like Kevin Miller. Kevin did my Elite today and although I thought the picture couldn't get any better, Kevin proved me wrong.

Fortunately my biggest fear about pulsing in ISF mode, was unfounded. I showed Kevin my NCIS test scene that nicely demonstrates the pulsing in non-THX movie mode. I showed him the same scene in THX mode and he confirmed my observations, it was gone in THX mode. We both confirmed there was no trace of the pulsing in these same scenes when he completed his ISF calibration.

In comparing Kevin's ISF settings with my THX settings (CNET), it was pretty apparent the color temp was initially too high (7500) and some colors were not within their targets. Gamma was also off. Despite this, Kevin agreed the picture was pretty spectacular with some of the material I showed him. With his ISF settings in place, the picture quality was raised to the next level. Flesh tones are stunning.
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post #7079 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmongiovi View Post

AVSHD. Greyscale tracks and looks fine. Colors look fine at 75%. Faces tend toward pale and yellow/greenish.

Everyone says "it's the source" but the funny thing is faces weren't yellowish with the last set....

If the source was supposed to have a yellowish cast on your last set and didn't, it wasn't displaying the material properly. Kevin and I had a discussion on this and he acknowledged how people just don't recognize this frequently used 'artistic' use of color. As I've said, I would see this same thing on my ISF'd Kuro plasma. A Blu Ray that Kevin brought over had a few scenes with the yellowish/golden cast and Kevin, intimately familiar with those scenes, said they were spot on.
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post #7080 of 14597 Old 02-16-2012, 09:01 PM
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^^^ it's not that CNET's settings are wrong. It's due to the variance between units the settings are different. Hence the reason one can't just copy other people's setting and calling it "calibrated"

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