Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 242 - AVS Forum
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post #7231 of 14538 Old 02-26-2012, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Ngerstman View Post

Are the Sammy 8000's as mediocre as some in the forum have indicated? They are a fraction of the price of the Elites. Thanks. Ned.

I really haven't looked at them closely, but they're certainly not as good.
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post #7232 of 14538 Old 02-26-2012, 06:30 AM
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I have been searching but have not found anything: input lag measurements on the elite.

As someone who is looking to go from a 2008 73" 3d DLP (3d is terrible on it due to 1/2 horizontal resolution and the "green tint" that you cannot get rid of) to a really good panel for HTPC and gaming (high end PC/ and low end XBox , since the elite has no game mode I wonder what the real lag would be? I relly don't want to go down to 65" but 70" without overscan compensation would be near to me current size (running 1804x1004 to avoid overscan).

Thanks for the help. Oh btw this Guy at BB quoted me MSRP with zero room
To budge due to "demand " in Chicago. Yeah, right.
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post #7233 of 14538 Old 02-26-2012, 07:07 AM
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I recently had an ISF calibration (which I'm extremely pleased with), but my calibrator ran out of time before he could do the 3D mode. Although I'm not particularly a 3D fan, since the capability is there, I would like to make the most of it. I started viewing the Puss in Boots movie the other night, and right away started tweaking the settings to make things better. The light attenuation and tint of the glasses of course complicate matters, so it's not an easy task to come up with settings that are on a par with 2D picture quality. Although there has been much discussion about what settings to use for 2D, I have seen no similar recommendations for 3D. Would anyone care to share their knowledge about what works for them?
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post #7234 of 14538 Old 02-26-2012, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bhudleson View Post

I recently had an ISF calibration (which I'm extremely pleased with), but my calibrator ran out of time before he could do the 3D mode. Although I'm not particularly a 3D fan, since the capability is there, I would like to make the most of it. I started viewing the Puss in Boots movie the other night, and right away started tweaking the settings to make things better. The light attenuation and tint of the glasses of course complicate matters, so it's not an easy task to come up with settings that are on a par with 2D picture quality. Although there has been much discussion about what settings to use for 2D, I have seen no similar recommendations for 3D. Would anyone care to share their knowledge about what works for them?

I would make him come back......
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post #7235 of 14538 Old 02-26-2012, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post

Thanks for the help. Oh btw this Guy at BB quoted me MSRP with zero room
To budge due to "demand " in Chicago. Yeah, right.

Go to another BB store and you'll probably get an entirely different reaction.
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post #7236 of 14538 Old 02-26-2012, 12:01 PM
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Yeah, sounds like them a c.plasma are great. I do like (in Chicago) how quick BB is about swapping out panels if bad etc.

Was just at a different one.... Offered me a pair of 3d glasses free at MSRP! I was like "they come with the box".

Denied here was. 945 coming. Whatever ..... When they die it will not be due to amazon.
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post #7237 of 14538 Old 02-26-2012, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bhudleson View Post

I recently had an ISF calibration (which I’m extremely pleased with), but my calibrator ran out of time before he could do the 3D mode.

You're making your calibration sound like a free BB Geek Squad job.
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post #7238 of 14538 Old 02-26-2012, 01:51 PM
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Quite the contrary. I have nothing but respect for Barry (see my post #7167). He had already spent about 6 hours (in part because of patiently answering my incessant questions), and I was on the fence about continuing on with the 3D calibration, which he said is time consuming. If I had insisted, I'm sure he would have stayed and completed what needed to be done. As it was, it got to be late in the afternoon and we pulled the plug. I will probably ask him to stop by and do the 3D cal the next time he's on the east coast of Florida, but for now I was just asking if anyone could provide their settings as a starting point.
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post #7239 of 14538 Old 02-26-2012, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bhudleson View Post

Quite the contrary. I have nothing but respect for Barry (see my post #7167). He had already spent about 6 hours (in part because of patiently answering my incessant questions), and I was on the fence about continuing on with the 3D calibration, which he said is time consuming. If I had insisted, I’m sure he would have stayed and completed what needed to be done. As it was, it got to be late in the afternoon and we pulled the plug. I will probably ask him to stop by and do the 3D cal the next time he’s on the east coast of Florida, but for now I was just asking if anyone could provide their settings as a starting point.

Details almost always make a difference.

I've edited my comment. You might want to do the same thing to make "running out of time" clearer to the reader who doesn't remember your calibration report.
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post #7240 of 14538 Old 02-27-2012, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bhudleson View Post

I recently had an ISF calibration (which I'm extremely pleased with), but my calibrator ran out of time before he could do the 3D mode. Although I'm not particularly a 3D fan, since the capability is there, I would like to make the most of it. I started viewing the Puss in Boots movie the other night, and right away started tweaking the settings to make things better. The light attenuation and tint of the glasses of course complicate matters, so it's not an easy task to come up with settings that are on a par with 2D picture quality. Although there has been much discussion about what settings to use for 2D, I have seen no similar recommendations for 3D. Would anyone care to share their knowledge about what works for them?

I used the cnet settings for 3D THX mode and it looks very nice. I did put the avc to high to compensate for the dimmed picture and turned the 3D brightness boost to mid level and backlight to -1. Those are my settings and they work beautifully for me I am by no means a professional but I do know a good image when I see one. I would also like to add that 50% of the 3D content isn't that great but to really really show off the 3D quality of your set you HAVE to watch AVATAR! It puts all other 3D blu-rays to shame, and is definitely a mind blower! Also I hear HUGO and TIN TIN were done very well.
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post #7241 of 14538 Old 02-27-2012, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post

I have been searching but have not found anything: input lag measurements on the elite.

As someone who is looking to go from a 2008 73" 3d DLP (3d is terrible on it due to 1/2 horizontal resolution and the "green tint" that you cannot get rid of) to a really good panel for HTPC and gaming (high end PC/ and low end XBox , since the elite has no game mode I wonder what the real lag would be? I relly don't want to go down to 65" but 70" without overscan compensation would be near to me current size (running 1804x1004 to avoid overscan).

Thanks for the help. Oh btw this Guy at BB quoted me MSRP with zero room
To budge due to "demand " in Chicago. Yeah, right.

The elite does have a game mode. Don't go to best buy to get your display.. You can easily get it cheaper... To go back to input lag, I do alot of competitive gaming, particularly fighting games which require quick response times. I love the elite for there is no "lag" that I've seen. I don't have any tests or charts to prove it, but it's clearly a non issue.

Living Room: Elite Pro 70X5FD, Oppo BDP-93 Blu ray Player, and Yamaha Aventage RA-3000 A/V Receiver, Panamax M5300-PM, PS3 (60GB Fatty), XBOX 360 Elite 250GB, Nintendo Wii, XBOX HD DVD player, Logitech Harmony 1100 Remote

Bedroom: Samsung LNS4695 (First 1080P TV from Samsung) Pioneer Elite...

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post #7242 of 14538 Old 02-27-2012, 12:31 PM
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Any thoughts about this tv vs. the new panasonic vx300?
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post #7243 of 14538 Old 02-27-2012, 12:34 PM
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while I am a fan of Panny commercial models, I dont think its even close to being in the same league as the Elite
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post #7244 of 14538 Old 02-27-2012, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by savora View Post

Any thoughts about this tv vs. the new panasonic vx300?

The more interesting comparison will be the Panasonic VT50 when it ships in late spring. I suspect that the Elite will mostly outpoint it but that the VT will win a couple of measures. Too soon to say for sure and, of course, new Elites loom for Q3 of 2012.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #7245 of 14538 Old 02-27-2012, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

The more interesting comparison will be the Panasonic VT50 when it ships in late spring. I suspect that the Elite will mostly outpoint it but that the VT will win a couple of measures. Too soon to say for sure and, of course, new Elites loom for Q3 of 2012.

but will pioneer still be partnering with sharp on the 2012 elite models?

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post #7246 of 14538 Old 02-27-2012, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

but will pioneer still be partnering with sharp on the 2012 elite models?

I believe the mythology is that Pioneer partnered with Sharp on the 2011 model. Did they license a name/badge? Yes. Did Sharp hire a few display folks from Pioneer at some point? It seems so. Was there more to it than that? Signs point to no.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #7247 of 14538 Old 02-27-2012, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post


I believe the mythology is that Pioneer partnered with Sharp on the 2011 model. Did they license a name/badge? Yes. Did Sharp hire a few display folks from Pioneer at some point? It seems so. Was there more to it than that? Signs point to no.

Mark, the only sign that points to yes is the fact that Sharp went from a so so TV manufacturer to a world-class display producer with the Elite. One could argue that they had enough in-house talent to do this all along when the cost restraints were removed or they needed to bring in the Pioneer brain trust to add the necessary talent that didn't exist prior.

Will we ever know for sure?
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post #7248 of 14538 Old 02-27-2012, 06:57 PM
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According to Akihabara news a long long time ago, Pioneer only licensed the Elite branding to Sharp. No brain-trust, no know-how, nothing.

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post #7249 of 14538 Old 02-27-2012, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Mark, the only sign that points to yes is the fact that Sharp went from a so so TV manufacturer to a world-class display producer with the Elite. One could argue that they had enough in-house talent to do this all along when the cost restraints were removed or they needed to bring in the Pioneer brain trust to add the necessary talent that didn't exist prior.

Will we ever know for sure?

We won't know for sure, but we can surmise based on what we know from what we've read and a lot of people we've talked to in the industry....

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According to Akihabara news a long long time ago, Pioneer only licensed the Elite branding to Sharp. No brain-trust, no know-how, nothing.

... like the stuff David read in Akihabara, which is consistent with everything I've heard. So while it's still second-hand info, it's consistent.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #7250 of 14538 Old 02-27-2012, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Mark, the only sign that points to yes is the fact that Sharp went from a so so TV manufacturer to a world-class display producer with the Elite. One could argue that they had enough in-house talent to do this all along when the cost restraints were removed or they needed to bring in the Pioneer brain trust to add the necessary talent that didn't exist prior.

I'd argue that the real magic of a high-end set isn't always in the panel itself. I'm not so sure that the Elite is the result of any real work there, but rather making sure the backlighting, processing and color management were up to the task of really doing the job. With Sharp focusing on trying to be one of the affordable brands until recently, price points were probably more important than trying to eek out every last drop of quality from their own panels.
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post #7251 of 14538 Old 02-27-2012, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Kolenka View Post

I'd argue that the real magic of a high-end set isn't always in the panel itself. I'm not so sure that the Elite is the result of any real work there, but rather making sure the backlighting, processing and color management were up to the task of really doing the job. With Sharp focusing on trying to be one of the affordable brands until recently, price points were probably more important than trying to eek out every last drop of quality from their own panels.

I don't think Ken is arguing the magic is in the panels.

In fact, I've explained why I'm fairly certain nothing in particular is done to the panels even on the Elite models. But a lot of things are done with the backlight (and its control), the video processing, the filters, etc. -- and the results are clearly outstanding.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #7252 of 14538 Old 02-27-2012, 11:52 PM
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I don't think Ken is arguing the magic is in the panels.

In fact, I've explained why I'm fairly certain nothing in particular is done to the panels even on the Elite models. But a lot of things are done with the backlight (and its control), the video processing, the filters, etc. -- and the results are clearly outstanding.

And because that is where the work was, it makes it a bit more believable in my mind that they could have made the jump without Pioneer's help. Especially if they believe they can trickle down some of the advancements later on.
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post #7253 of 14538 Old 02-28-2012, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

According to Akihabara news a long long time ago, Pioneer only licensed the Elite branding to Sharp. No brain-trust, no know-how, nothing.

I'm almost sure I read that some of the Pioneer group came over to Sharp in the deal. Who they are and what they do, I have no idea. They could have been anyone from janitors to some of Pioneer's key display brain trust. We just don't know.

I guess in the end it isn't all that important given the quality of the Elite. However Sharp got to this point, they did.
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post #7254 of 14538 Old 02-28-2012, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Kolenka View Post


I'd argue that the real magic of a high-end set isn't always in the panel itself. I'm not so sure that the Elite is the result of any real work there, but rather making sure the backlighting, processing and color management were up to the task of really doing the job. With Sharp focusing on trying to be one of the affordable brands until recently, price points were probably more important than trying to eek out every last drop of quality from their own panels.

I agree with Mark's last post. Perhaps with cost restraints removed, an Elite was always possible with existing in-house engineering. Developing some excellent local dimming, processing and color management is easier for a design team when they don't have to meet some 'budget' price point.
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post #7255 of 14538 Old 02-28-2012, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I'm almost sure I read that some of the Pioneer group came over to Sharp in the deal. Who they are and what they do, I have no idea. They could have been anyone from janitors to some of Pioneer's key display brain trust. We just don't know.

I guess in the end it isn't all that important given the quality of the Elite. However Sharp got to this point, they did.

Sharp obtained part of Pioneer stocks (maybe about a year ago) and Pioneer obtained part of Sharp stocks (happened long before Pioneer stopped manufacturing plasma). That's all. No cross-engineering happening at all.

Regardless, I concur, overall, it's still the best LCD panel out there.

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post #7256 of 14538 Old 02-28-2012, 08:39 AM
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' At a press conference in New York City this morning, executives said engineers from Sharp and Pioneer collaborated closely to develop the new sets' - 'Sharp became the largest shareholder of Pioneer four years ago.'
http://news.consumerreports.org/elec...ners-sigh.html

'Licensing the Elite moniker from Pioneer - which collaborated on the new panels'
http://www.hometheater.com/content/s...5fd-3d-led-lcd

'Sharp Electronics Corporation (SEC) and Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc, joined together in a unique marketing collaboration'.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/04/s...g-starts-at-5/


I'm pretty shure that Sharp couldn't build such a TV on their own - nobody could, such a collaboration makes sence to me.
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post #7257 of 14538 Old 02-28-2012, 08:45 AM
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kindly read what you've just posted: "'Sharp Electronics Corporation (SEC) and Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc, joined together in a unique marketing collaboration"

as far as the first link, Sharp and Pioneer engineers DID have collaboration but that happened BEFORE Pioneer 86-ed panel manufacturing (they collaborate to create Pioneer Elite LCD for European market). When the TV division closed, there is no more Pioneer TV engineers left at Pioneer; some got absorbed to Panasonic some got absorved to Sharp, some even got absorbed to LG. How can they collaborate (in 2011)with non-existent engineers?

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post #7258 of 14538 Old 02-28-2012, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo; View Post

When the TV division closed, there is no more Pioneer TV engineers left at Pioneer; some got absorbed to Panasonic some got absorved to Sharp, some even got absorbed to LG. How can they collaborate (in 2011)with non-existent engineers?

When its true that some Pioneer engineers where absorbed by Sharp Sharp could easily claim that there was a ''collaboration'' without it being a big fat lie..
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post #7259 of 14538 Old 02-28-2012, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

kindly read what you've just posted: "'Sharp Electronics Corporation (SEC) and Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc, joined together in a unique marketing collaboration"

as far as the first link, Sharp and Pioneer engineers DID have collaboration but that happened BEFORE Pioneer 86-ed panel manufacturing (they collaborate to create Pioneer Elite LCD for European market). When the TV division closed, there is no more Pioneer TV engineers left at Pioneer; some got absorbed to Panasonic some got absorved to Sharp, some even got absorbed to LG. How can they collaborate (in 2011)with non-existent engineers?

You guys seem to be arguing over a point that none of you have any first hand knowledge. We know the Sharp Elite contains some Pioneer technology and Sharp has said it was a collaboration of Sharp engineers and Pioneer engineers. Beyond that why does anyone really care?
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post #7260 of 14538 Old 02-28-2012, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by DJ Mike Fury View Post

The elite does have a game mode. Don't go to best buy to get your display.. You can easily get it cheaper... To go back to input lag, I do alot of competitive gaming, particularly fighting games which require quick response times. I love the elite for there is no "lag" that I've seen. I don't have any tests or charts to prove it, but it's clearly a non issue.



Thanks so much. That makes me feel better as fighting games (which I do not di) are FAR more sensitive than FPS (MW3/Battlefield etc).

Yes, CP adn VE seem to be the best.... need to make up my mind on pull trigger now for Elite or wait for 70" "945" set in may/June...
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