Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 300 - AVS Forum
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post #8971 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 03:58 AM
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I would just like to take a second and wish our little thread a very happy 300 pages.
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post #8972 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 04:35 AM
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post #8973 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boidster View Post


As a non-owner keeping tabs on this thread, I just want to thank TT for providing the non-owner's explanation of why all the drooling owners, calibrators, and reviewers are ignorant of what the picture should look like. You perform a service, good sir, don't let them tell you otherwise.

I would assist you in that service (as a fellow non-owner I have the required experience with the ELITE), but I'm a bit too busy telling Porsche drivers that their cars are no fun to drive because the ABS computer is known to have a 50ms delay that BMW computers don't have. The Porsche Kool-Aid drinkers try to tell me that real-world braking performance is superior to the BMW, but having never in my life driven a Porsche, I know better.

Keep up the good fight, man.

Totally agree - thank you so much for posting!

:P
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post #8974 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BarrettF77 View Post

That is ludicrous for the size of the panel. Gorgeous? Yes! Would I want to be a guinea pig, NO!

Let's hope that the picture quality and performance is equally as ludicrous!

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post #8975 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

It's a joke and unless I missed it, you gave no sign that you got it. It's the best post I've read in a long time.

Read it again!

I was playing the fake devil's advocate.

 

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post #8976 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 10:40 AM
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In anticipation of my upcoming installation of my new 60" Elite I was wondering if people actually use software to calibrate their TVs such as Calman4 or do they input values that other people suggest? Just wondering if it is a worthwhile investment. The Calman software seems quite pricey ($399).
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post #8977 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyShanfield View Post

In anticipation of my upcoming installation of my new 60" Elite I was wondering if people actually use software to calibrate their TVs such as Calman4 or do they input values that other people suggest? Just wondering if it is a worthwhile investment. The Calman software seems quite pricey ($399).

Speaking of this software, how hard is it to run through for a first timer?
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post #8978 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneWildersHair View Post

Speaking of this software, how hard is it to run through for a first timer?

I was wondering the same thing. Not sure if the only thing needed is the software or if you need the meter thingy as well.
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post #8979 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 11:17 AM
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In order to use most calibration software you will need a meter.
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post #8980 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 11:19 AM
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You need both, but they rent out kits. I'm a little pissed off because I want to calibrate my TV now, but It will be a costly affair if & hopefully, when, Sharp release a Cyan fix.

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post #8981 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

In order to use most calibration software you will need a meter.

Looks like I will just have someone come out and do it. Besides I would want a someone who knows exactly what they are doing, it would be money well spent.
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post #8982 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 11:56 AM
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For those who are interested, the VE shootout tabulations are on the VE website now. It includes audience scoring, calibrator scoring and measurements reguarding each set. Kind of have to chuckle at the measurements of the Panasonic LED.
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post #8983 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

I was playing the fake devil's advocate.

It worked. You fooled me.
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post #8984 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 03:33 PM
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VE Shootout 2012 results/ measurements:

http://www.google.nl/search?q=++valu...w=1034&bih=602
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post #8985 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r1dude57 View Post

For those who are interested, the VE shootout tabulations are on the VE website now. It includes audience scoring, calibrator scoring and measurements reguarding each set. Kind of have to chuckle at the measurements of the Panasonic LED.

the Calibrator votes are on par with the Audience votes in terms of overall results, with some slight deviation (on a side note this tells me that the audience attending the Shootout was pretty sophisticated and knowledgeable on HT and weren't just guys that came off the streets to get free pizza)

with the Calibrator votes it's interesting that the VT50 tied with the Elite in 'contrast ratio'...the VT50 also maintains pretty consistent scores across the board in every category (with the 'worst' score coming in 'Sharpness' at 8.75)

the Elite gets high marks for black levels and contrast ratio but really falls off the cliff in the other categories...in color accuracy it finished 5th (out of 6) with even the LG plasma scoring higher...and it's 'Sharpness' and 'General Content' video quality' scores are not much better...so high 9's in 2 categories but low 6's and 7.50 in the other 3 categories

not to mention the ANSI numbers on the VT50 compared to the Elite
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post #8986 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post


I was playing the fake devil's advocate.

I was hip to ya. No worries.
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post #8987 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyShanfield View Post


I was wondering the same thing. Not sure if the only thing needed is the software or if you need the meter thingy as well.

I use a Spyder sensor and HCFR software for a budget calibration. Not nearly ISF quality, but it greatly improved the look of my Sony compared to just a Spears & Muncil walk-through (brightness, contrast, color, and tint). I expect it will offer similar benefit for the ELITE, tho I will pay for ISF eventually.
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post #8988 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

the Calibrator votes are on par with the Audience votes in terms of overall results, with some slight deviation (on a side note this tells me that the audience attending the Shootout was pretty sophisticated and knowledgeable on HT and weren't just guys that came off the streets to get free pizza)

with the Calibrator votes it's interesting that the VT50 tied with the Elite in 'contrast ratio'...the VT50 also maintains pretty consistent scores across the board in every category (with the 'worst' score coming in 'Sharpness' at 8.75)

the Elite gets high marks for black levels and contrast ratio but really falls off the cliff in the other categories...in color accuracy it finished 5th (out of 6) with even the LG plasma scoring higher...and it's 'Sharpness' and 'General Content' video quality' scores are not much better...so high 9's in 2 categories but low 6's and 7.50 in the other 3 categories

not to mention the ANSI numbers on the VT50 compared to the Elite

A note on the contrast ratio numbers. These were measured using a pattern of black and white blocks that don't agree as well with the local dimming environment of LCD/LED panels. Even so the Elite scored way higher than the rest of the plasmas and LCD/LEDs except the VT50. However, with the content you and I watch, the Elite's contrast ratio looks better than the VT50, and is apparent visually.

I don't watch with numbers, I watch with my eyes.

I also found it interesting that the audience rated the Elite's general content video quality second only to the VT50, and the professionals rated it second to last.
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post #8989 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyShanfield View Post

In anticipation of my upcoming installation of my new 60" Elite I was wondering if people actually use software to calibrate their TVs such as Calman4 or do they input values that other people suggest? Just wondering if it is a worthwhile investment. The Calman software seems quite pricey ($399).

That price includes the meter, so it's a great deal.
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post #8990 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post

A note on the contrast ratio numbers. These were measured using a pattern of black and white blocks that don't agree as well with the local dimming environment of LCD/LED panels. Even so the Elite scored way higher than the rest of the plasmas and LCD/LEDs except the VT50. However, with the content you and I watch, the Elite's contrast ratio looks better than the VT50, and is apparent visually.

I don't watch with numbers, I watch with my eyes.

I also found it interesting that the audience rated the Elite's general content video quality second only to the VT50, and the professionals rated it second to last.

They also used a 5x5 checkerboard this year, unlike last year where a 4x4 checkerboard was used which gave the Elite an almost 16,000-1 ANSI Contrast Ratio
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post #8991 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post

A note on the contrast ratio numbers. These were measured using a pattern of black and white blocks that don't agree as well with the local dimming environment of LCD/LED panels. Even so the Elite scored way higher than the rest of the plasmas and LCD/LEDs except the VT50. However, with the content you and I watch, the Elite's contrast ratio looks better than the VT50, and is apparent visually.

I don't watch with numbers, I watch with my eyes.

Now c'mon, you should know better than to use your eyes in judging material! Just read Titus' posts and you'll have all you need to judge the PQ of your display. If there's any disparity between what you see and what Titus says, your eyes are obviously deceiving you. I can't make it much clearer than that.
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post #8992 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

the Calibrator votes are on par with the Audience votes in terms of overall results, with some slight deviation (on a side note this tells me that the audience attending the Shootout was pretty sophisticated and knowledgeable on HT and weren't just guys that came off the streets to get free pizza)

with the Calibrator votes it's interesting that the VT50 tied with the Elite in 'contrast ratio'...the VT50 also maintains pretty consistent scores across the board in every category (with the 'worst' score coming in 'Sharpness' at 8.75)

the Elite gets high marks for black levels and contrast ratio but really falls off the cliff in the other categories...in color accuracy it finished 5th (out of 6) with even the LG plasma scoring higher...and it's 'Sharpness' and 'General Content' video quality' scores are not much better...so high 9's in 2 categories but low 6's and 7.50 in the other 3 categories

not to mention the ANSI numbers on the VT50 compared to the Elite

Now did you think that people couldn't read that themselves Titus or do you just get your jollies saying that the Elite 'really falls off the cliff in other categories'?

Why don't you just buy your 50 and try residing in an owners thread over there? You know as well as we do that you will never buy the Elite.
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post #8993 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Now did you think that people couldn't read that themselves Titus or do you just get your jollies saying that the Elite 'really falls off the cliff in other categories'?

Why don't you just buy your 50 and try residing in an owners thread over there? You know as well as we do that you will never buy the Elite.

I know you don't like hearing the 'numbers' on the Elite but it is what it is...and please stop attempting to read my mind...the Elite is still under consideration by me as is the VT50 otherwise I would not be looking at this thread...I only look and post in threads I am interested in

how is that any different from your hundreds of posts quoting Home Theater Mag, Cnet etc?...or even better your constant reminding of everybody that you discovered the cyan issue (you'd think you discovered penicillin or the cure for cancer with your constant patting of yourself on the back for that)...it's not, the only difference is that it doesn't jive with your opinions...you hate any comments or reviews on the Elite which brings up any flaws or negative attributes...according to you anyone who brings this up is jealous or has an agenda...please stop trying to make this the Elite love-fest thread...there are many people who like to read about ALL aspects of a display...if you don't like the objective numbers then so be it but stop trying to sweep them under the rug
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post #8994 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 07:30 PM
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I mention the cyan issue only to prove that I am being objective in my evaluation of the picture.

As far as you considering the Elite, please, I don't buy it (no pun intended).

Let's see, if I felt like you would I buy a display that has:

* Color accuracy that finished 5th
* Sharpness scores not much better
* General content scores not much better
* Produces the dreaded cyan error

I know I could go on with other 'faults' you've mentioned in your many posts, but I think the point is obvious. Who would buy a display if they really felt like this.

I have freely acknowledged the issues I'VE seen and can confirm. I don't hide anything so don't ascribe these traits to me.

As far as this being a 'love fest'...I know that bugs the hell out of you, but there are many owners who contribute to this 'love fest'. No coaxing is needed.

There are posters like you, AND OWNERS, who freely discuss the real visible issues with this display. Nothing is hidden and don't for a minute believe you are the Paul Revere of the video world.
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post #8995 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherdude View Post


i don't watch with numbers, i watch with my eyes.

+100

 

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post #8996 of 14556 Old 05-25-2012, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post


I know you don't like hearing the 'numbers' on the Elite but it is what it is...and please stop attempting to read my mind...the Elite is still under consideration by me as is the VT50 otherwise I would not be looking at this thread...I only look and post in threads I am interested in

how is that any different from your hundreds of posts quoting Home Theater Mag, Cnet etc?...or even better your constant reminding of everybody that you discovered the cyan issue (you'd think you discovered penicillin or the cure for cancer with your constant patting of yourself on the back for that)...it's not, the only difference is that it doesn't jive with your opinions...you hate any comments or reviews on the Elite which brings up any flaws or negative attributes...according to you anyone who brings this up is jealous or has an agenda...please stop trying to make this the Elite love-fest thread...there are many people who like to read about ALL aspects of a display...if you don't like the objective numbers then so be it but stop trying to sweep them under the rug

Have you been into a store yet to demo any of your favorite blurays on one? I'm on the fence too but not because of what I read, just what I see. The research is great for narrowing the search, finding patterns of owner complaints to identify issues specific to certain models, etc. -but- at some point the reading reaches the limits of its value and your eyes need to take over. There is no doubt both the VT50 and Elite are top tier displays but as an unbiased non-owner of either, that has spent hours looking at bluray content on both, I feel that I'm approaching the decision with oodles of objectivity

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post #8997 of 14556 Old 05-26-2012, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross; View Post

I mention the cyan issue only to prove that I am being objective in my evaluation of the picture.

As far as you considering the Elite, please, I don't buy it (no pun intended).

Let's see, if I felt like you would I buy a display that has:

* Color accuracy that finished 5th
* Sharpness scores not much better
* General content scores not much better
* Produces the dreaded cyan error

I know I could go on with other 'faults' you've mentioned in your many posts, but I think the point is obvious. Who would buy a display if they really felt like this.

I have freely acknowledged the issues I'VE seen and can confirm. I don't hide anything so don't ascribe these traits to me.

As far as this being a 'love fest'...I know that bugs the hell out of you, but there are many owners who contribute to this 'love fest'. No coaxing is needed.

There are posters like you, AND OWNERS, who freely discuss the real visible issues with this display. Nothing is hidden and don't for a minute believe you are the Paul Revere of the video world.

Basicly any score above 8.00 should be good enough for videophiles imo
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=288

by the way my next flatscreen will be an OLEd


So why did they use a 5x5 checkerboard this year instead of last year's 4x4 checkerboard? Seems that Plasma books better results that way (AnotherDude). Coincidentally the inventor of Plasma - dr Larry Weber - was present at this year's shootout. Did they do it to please HIM


HIM
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post #8998 of 14556 Old 05-26-2012, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

Have you been into a store yet to demo any of your favorite blurays on one? I'm on the fence too but not because of what I read, just what I see. The research is great for narrowing the search, finding patterns of owner complaints to identify issues specific to certain models, etc. -but- at some point the reading reaches the limits of its value and your eyes need to take over. There is no doubt both the VT50 and Elite are top tier displays but as an unbiased non-owner of either, that has spent hours looking at bluray content on both, I feel that I'm approaching the decision with oodles of objectivity

yes I know 2 people who own Elite's and have seen it up close a few times...I watched a bit of Avatar, Toy Story 3, Dark Knight on it...there's no denying that the Elite definitely has pop and a wow factor...I havn't seen the VT50 up close but I own a VT30...the VT50 probably doesn''t have the same pop but it does make up for it with nearly perfect color...D-Nice stated at the Shootout (or maybe on the forums?) that the VT50 is even with the Kuro 9G in terms of color accuracy...if you value blacks over overall color accuracy then the Elite wins...but .002 is nothing to sneeze at

the issue which is the biggest factor to me (and many others) is that the VT50 can be had for literally half the price of the Elite...no exagerration!...even owners of the Elite who feel that it is the best display ever have to admit that the Elite cannot possibly be worth double the price of the VT50...look at the Shootout or get comments from any objective owner of one or both displays and if they are being honest they will ALL tell you that the Elite is not worth double the price of a VT50...let that sink in, double the price!...you can buy a VT50, get it calibrated, buy a nice receiver and some decent front speakers for the price of an Elite

whether you base it on numbers or real world content do you feel whatever advantages one display has over the other are 90%+ better (or worse based on which display you are basing it on)?...looking at the Shootout numbers between the VT50 and Elite, even the black level and contrast scores (which the Elite won) are EXTREMELY close...while the other picture attribute scores are not close in favor of the VT50

that's why I keep waiting for a price drop on the Elite...to each his own but honestly even if I liked the Elite better I would be hard pressed to value it 90%+ better overall...again it's not a knock on the Elite...it's not like I'm saying that the Elite is trash, it's probably the 2nd or 3rd best display currently on the market...but I'm looking for a TV that in an ideal world provides a reference (or close to it) image...the VT50 is closer to that goal then anything since the Kuro
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post #8999 of 14556 Old 05-26-2012, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

yes I know 2 people who own Elite's and have seen it up close a few times...I watched a bit of Avatar, Toy Story 3, Dark Knight on it...there's no denying that the Elite definitely has pop and a wow factor...I havn't seen the VT50 up close but I own a VT30...the VT50 probably doesn''t have the same pop but it does make up for it with nearly perfect color...D-Nice stated at the Shootout (or maybe on the forums?) that the VT50 is even with the Kuro 9G in terms of color accuracy...if you value blacks over overall color accuracy then the Elite wins...but .002 is nothing to sneeze at

the issue which is the biggest factor to me (and many others) is that the VT50 can be had for literally half the price of the Elite...no exagerration!...even owners of the Elite who feel that it is the best display ever have to admit that the Elite cannot possibly be worth double the price of the VT50...look at the Shootout or get comments from any objective owner of one or both displays and if they are being honest they will ALL tell you that the Elite is not worth double the price of a VT50...let that sink in, double the price!...you can buy a VT50, get it calibrated, buy a nice receiver and some decent front speakers for the price of an Elite

whether you base it on numbers or real world content do you feel whatever advantages one display has over the other are 90%+ better (or worse based on which display you are basing it on)?...looking at the Shootout numbers between the VT50 and Elite, even the black level and contrast scores (which the Elite won) are EXTREMELY close...while the other picture attribute scores are not close in favor of the VT50

that's why I keep waiting for a price drop on the Elite...to each his own but honestly even if I liked the Elite better I would be hard pressed to value it 90%+ better overall...again it's not a knock on the Elite...it's not like I'm saying that the Elite is trash, it's probably the 2nd or 3rd best display currently on the market...but I'm looking for a TV that in an ideal world provides a reference (or close to it) image...the VT50 is closer to that goal then anything since the Kuro

Remember that's only your opinion and to many others the advantage of having the Best Possible Black Levels and Contrast Ratio in conjunction with the Best Full Screen Bright Whites available is something worth the extra money and something the VT50 can't come close to doing as well as the ELITE. I for one would never want to give any of those advantages. Yes even it's it's twice the cost, remember Contrast Ratio is number One and it's what makes the detail visible and allows for your color to pop out. And boy does it pop out on the ELITE, Deep Inky Blacks and High Contrast Ratio are the ELITE's speciality! Additionally you have several advantages with LED over Plasma so it's important to not stereo type any one thing into a category of being better then the other simply because you think so, it's all up to the viewer.
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post #9000 of 14556 Old 05-26-2012, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

yes I know 2 people who own Elite's and have seen it up close a few times...I watched a bit of Avatar, Toy Story 3, Dark Knight on it...there's no denying that the Elite definitely has pop and a wow factor...I havn't seen the VT50 up close but I own a VT30...the VT50 probably doesn''t have the same pop but it does make up for it with nearly perfect color...D-Nice stated at the Shootout (or maybe on the forums?) that the VT50 is even with the Kuro 9G in terms of color accuracy...if you value blacks over overall color accuracy then the Elite wins...but .002 is nothing to sneeze at

the issue which is the biggest factor to me (and many others) is that the VT50 can be had for literally half the price of the Elite...no exagerration!...even owners of the Elite who feel that it is the best display ever have to admit that the Elite cannot possibly be worth double the price of the VT50...look at the Shootout or get comments from any objective owner of one or both displays and if they are being honest they will ALL tell you that the Elite is not worth double the price of a VT50...let that sink in, double the price!...you can buy a VT50, get it calibrated, buy a nice receiver and some decent front speakers for the price of an Elite

whether you base it on numbers or real world content do you feel whatever advantages one display has over the other are 90%+ better (or worse based on which display you are basing it on)?...looking at the Shootout numbers between the VT50 and Elite, even the black level and contrast scores (which the Elite won) are EXTREMELY close...while the other picture attribute scores are not close in favor of the VT50

that's why I keep waiting for a price drop on the Elite...to each his own but honestly even if I liked the Elite better I would be hard pressed to value it 90%+ better overall...again it's not a knock on the Elite...it's not like I'm saying that the Elite is trash, it's probably the 2nd or 3rd best display currently on the market...but I'm looking for a TV that in an ideal world provides a reference (or close to it) image...the VT50 is closer to that goal then anything since the Kuro


If you ever get an Elite, I am giving mine to a homeless person.
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