Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 63 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1861 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by rickdeckard123 View Post

I had to bump color up to +10 in THX mode. It's very undersaturated.

Thanks Rick, but here's the question, their unit was set at +12 for color (if I recall correctly) and mine is set at +8. At my +8 setting it looks perfectly fine from a saturation standpoint, greens and other colors are lush. At +12 theirs still looked very undersaturated with very pale greens.

So at +10 is yours still very undersaturated? That's what I'm trying to get at and I probably should have mentioned after you adjust the color levels, are you still undersaturated.
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post #1862 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

There seems to be some issues within the Elite CMS. Remember Kevin telling people not to use the color filters to measure color accuracy due to the Y-Pixel.
"Which cannot be turned-Off"

The issue with Cyan, which can only be accessed within the CMS. Once we see the graphs, I'm betting the Elite will have spot-on color reading.

Hence why the colors looked off when content was played

The color plots won't be spot on until Sharp issues a fix. The cyan is not correctable no matter what you do in the CMS with the current software. That's the issue.
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post #1863 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


The color plots won't be spot on until Sharp issues a fix. The cyan is not correctable no matter what you do in the CMS with the current software. That's the issue.

I think what we saw over the weekend is THX needs to fully check CMS functions on displays requesting THX certification.

As D-Nice stated, this new generation of directors are using these weird color schemes when directing.

Example, last night the wife & I watched I am Four & sure enough it had those sunburned flesh tones with those cyan overtones
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post #1864 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 06:09 AM
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I must say that I was rather unimpressed overall with the calibrated Elite at the shootout. Sure, it has great blacks but in a dark room, they are the same as a 500M or 101 and only slightly better than my 141 and certainly not enough to get me to switch, even for a 70" display. Frankly, at this juncture, I would only replace the 141 with a bigger set than was at least a match for the 141. The set no doubt, has great potential but needs some fixes. The cyan color was only one of the problems. The undersaturated color was also a deal breaker. Watching the baseball game after the Saturday shootout, the grass on the Elite was a shade of gray, not green. I noticed the same thing on the Sunday shootout over the web. How can you watch sports on this display? Frankly, the Sammy plasma one my vote as the best display even with its weaker blacks, as it had much better color than any of the other displays by a wide margin IMHO. It also had the best detail and the most overall pleasing picture. For me, the viewing angle is the biggest problem I have with the Elite whether or not a firmware upgrade fixes the color issues as the set would be unwatchable on one of the sets in my room. How this color bug got past the eyes at THX is beyond me. There is no question that Kevin and Dwayne stated publicly and privately that once the color issue were resolved, the Elite would get their vote. I would agree, unless the off axis performance would be an issue in your viewing environment. My plan is to wait another year and see if they can get the bugs out and hopefully improve the off axis performance a bit and then, I will only consider the 70" I would also like to see them eliminate the yellow pixel which they are apparently doing for the regular Sharp 80". I do commend the folks at Elite for trying to move the reference bar forward for a flat panel and they have done so. Now they have to get the color bugs out and they have a winner, although the price needs a downward adjustment.

Louder is NOT better!
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post #1865 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

How about those that don't sit significantly off-axis? For those people this is a total non-issue since the display will never 'wash out'...and there's more of those than you might think. But hey, it's pretty apparent nobody is going to change your mind about the Elite, the 'pressure' you seem to be so convinced the presenters were under or anything else about the display. You don't like the Elite and you don't like LED/LCDs, we get it. Let's move on.

front on it was a great picture

whatever was said and happened on Sunday was a different crowd so thay was the point of the 2 day shootout and the diversity of the crowd.Each being titled to their own opinion.Something you just don't get

no way the voting was rigged..if it finished first because of Sundays shootout results.I am fine with that.It was a pro plasma crowd Saturday with the Pro's saying that themselves.So Sunday's crowd was more in tune to LCD's..no problem

please don't tell me to move on Ken..that's not your job and you have no right

i said it was a great experience and it was.A great job was done in setting up the tv's,My first question b4 it even got going was to make sure we all knew what video source was being used and the type of cabling etc, which was described to a t to ensure each one,no matter where in the room, was receiving everything on an equal playing field.They had painted the whole room black including the ceiling, they provided us with food,water,drinks.I could go on an on about how well everything was done and if myself ,the pros, and others who were there Saturday let slip their likes and dislikes, well we are human,there are things that a plasma can do with a picture that an LED still can't do and i guess my want for a perfect picture will at this point keep myself and others from using one as a main display.The ELITE made leaps and bounds in the LCD world.I would still recommend waiting on this tv because it should be judged on what it is right now, and not what it can be after fixing what we saw was wrong.And right now there things wrong that should not be with a TV of that price and should have been at it's for the presentation and because it is being sold to the public.I believe the ELITE will be the best tv out there in the coming years because of the shootout and what we found out about this set.

Sucking up to SHARP would be the worst thing to do and unfair to everyone here and all consumers if we boasted it was the absolute best and had no issues and then you got one and found out there were problems.Then we would look like we didn't do a good job or lied about the results.Be patient if you really want an ELITE because what's in the store's and in your house if you own one, needs some fixing.We were there to give an honest opinion and to be open about our likes and dislikes, no holds barred.That's what I did, and that's how I judged it,hope all did the same.
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post #1866 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

I think what we saw over the weekend is THX needs to fully check CMS functions on displays requesting THX certification.

As D-Nice stated, this new generation of directors are using these weird color schemes when directing.

Example, last night the wife & I watched I am Four & sure enough it had those sunburned flesh tones with those cyan overtones

A set with proper color adjustments will render any signal issue correctly. It is not the director's intent which is the issue but the display's performance. My 141 has no issues with cyan or green or any other color. I do hate the cyan thing which seems to be the rage these days in Hollywood but there is really no excuse for any new display to display these colors correctly.

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post #1867 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

All results showed a DE of around 1 or less except for cyan which had a final DE of around 4-5 as I remember.

Ken: Judge for yourself from the following DIY calibration #s. Done with a Chroma 5, Chromapure at 75% LD off, windows patterns.
Sat. Hue Value
R +6 0 -1
G +23 -4 -9
B 0 0 +1
Y +4 +9 +1

Not final results as I used a Lumagen Radiance CMS to fine tune.
Finally, note that I use the S&M clipping pattern to set white level. More shades of color show up including lighter shades.

Thanks Dave. Yup, I know in my CMS controls I've got green saturation up to +10 THX mode. But at least where I've got it green looks perfectly normal and fairly close to my reference Kuro. The shootout Elite just didn't seem capable of getting anywhere near a normal green saturation.
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post #1868 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post

I must say that I was rather unimpressed overall with the calibrated Elite at the shootout. Sure, it has great blacks but in a dark room, they are the same as a 500M or 101 and only slightly better than my 141 and certainly not enough to get me to switch, even for a 70" display. Frankly, at this juncture, I would only replace the 141 with a bigger set than was at least a match for the 141. The set no doubt, has great potential but needs some fixes. The cyan color was only one of the problems. The undersaturated color was also a deal breaker. Watching the baseball game after the Saturday shootout, the grass on the Elite was a shade of gray, not green. I noticed the same thing on the Sunday shootout over the web. How can you watch sports on this display? Frankly, the Sammy plasma one my vote as the best display even with its weaker blacks, as it had much better color than any of the other displays by a wide margin IMHO. It also had the best detail and the most overall pleasing picture. For me, the viewing angle is the biggest problem I have with the Elite whether or not a firmware upgrade fixes the color issues as the set would be unwatchable on one of the sets in my room. How this color bug got past the eyes at THX is beyond me. There is no question that Kevin and Dwayne stated publicly and privately that once the color issue were resolved, the Elite would get their vote. I would agree, unless the off axis performance would be an issue in your viewing environment. My plan is to wait another year and see if they can get the bugs out and hopefully improve the off axis performance a bit and then, I will only consider the 70" I would also like to see them eliminate the yellow pixel which they are apparently doing for the regular Sharp 80". I do commend the folks at Elite for trying to move the reference bar forward for a flat panel and they have done so. Now they have to get the color bugs out and they have a winner, although the price needs a downward adjustment.

If you read my posts, you'd see that I'm not having an issue with undersaturation. We don't know if that was their sample or what. If you think about it, don't you think owners would be screaming if those extremely pale greens were being seen by all owners? A green football or baseball field is a known entity, people know what it should look like unlike the cyan issue. When it looks as undersaturated as their sample was, people would notice immediately...it's hard to miss. None of the owners have complained to date as far as I know. I think that's because most owners are not seeing that at all after some adjustments.

But I agree, if I had seen the set not knowing the set can show a picture with no undersaturation issues, I too would raise some questions. Also keep in mind that there are many other picture modes from which to calibrate that don't have any undersaturation issues even at default levels.
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post #1869 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by gene9p View Post

front on it was a great picture

whatever was said and happened on Sunday was a different crowd so thay was the point of the 2 day shootout and the diversity of the crowd.Each being titled to their own opinion.Something you just don't get

no way the voting was rigged..if it finished first because of Sundays shootout results.I am fine with that.It was a pro plasma crowd Saturday with the Pro's saying that themselves.So Sunday's crowd was more in tune to LCD's..no problem

please don't tell me to move on Ken..that's not your job and you have no right

i said it was a great experience and it was.A great job was done in setting up the tv's,My first question b4 it even got going was to make sure we all knew what video source was being used and the type of cabling etc, which was described to a t to ensure each one,no matter where in the room, was receiving everything on an equal playing field.They had painted the whole room black including the ceiling, they provided us with food,water,drinks.I could go on an on about how well everything was done and if myself ,the pros, and others who were there Saturday let slip their likes and dislikes, well we are human,there are things that a plasma can do with a picture that an LED still can't do and i guess my want for a perfect picture will at this point keep myself and others from using one as a main display.The ELITE made leaps and bounds in the LCD world.I would still recommend waiting on this tv because it should be judged on what it is right now, and not what it can be after fixing what we saw was wrong.And right now there things wrong that should not be with a TV of that price and should have been at it's for the presentation and because it is being sold to the public.I believe the ELITE will be the best tv out there in the coming years because of the shootout and what we found out about this set.

Sucking up to SHARP would be the worst thing to do and unfair to everyone here and all consumers if we boasted it was the absolute best and had no issues and then you got one and found out there were problems.Then we would look like we didn't do a good job or lied about the results.Be patient if you really want an ELITE because what's in the store's and in your house if you own one, needs some fixing.We were there to give an honest opinion and to be open about our likes and dislikes, no holds barred.That's what I did, and that's how I judged it,hope all did the same.

You just don't seem to understand this. Of course every crowd is different, but it seems as if the overall voting still favored the Sharp over the two days. Perhaps the attendees were pressured by Sharp?

Nobody is hiding any issues with the Sharp, nobody is sucking up to Sharp, nobody is pushing one product over the other. You choose to believe otherwise, that's fine.

The fixes that will make this the best display bar none, will be out within a month or so, not years. So there is no need to wait for 'years'. In fact, since I don't appear to have any undersaturation issue, I'd say that right now it is simply the best display available bar none. Yes, it has an issue with cyan, but there is absolutely zero doubt in my mind that the overwhelming majority of people would never notice it unless it was pointed out. How do I know that? Because I was the only one that saw it. It eluded everyone else, so how obvious an issue can it be.

But of course if you have an issue with LED/LCDs this is all irrelevant. Look, we've gone round & round on this and I don't think cluttering up this thread with more repeat responses is productive. You feel one way and I feel another. That's fine. Done.
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post #1870 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 07:11 AM
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Look, we've gone round & round on this and I don't think cluttering up this thread with more repeat responses is productive. You feel one way and I feel another. That's fine. Done.[/quote]

I agree....no offense meant..guess we had our own shootout....lol
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post #1871 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 07:14 AM
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No offense taken Gene. As Robert said, this stuff always generates 'fights'.
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post #1872 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post

I must say that I was rather unimpressed overall with the calibrated Elite at the shootout. Sure, it has great blacks but in a dark room, they are the same as a 500M or 101 and only slightly better than my 141 and certainly not enough to get me to switch, even for a 70" display. Frankly, at this juncture, I would only replace the 141 with a bigger set than was at least a match for the 141. The set no doubt, has great potential but needs some fixes. The cyan color was only one of the problems. The undersaturated color was also a deal breaker. Watching the baseball game after the Saturday shootout, the grass on the Elite was a shade of gray, not green. I noticed the same thing on the Sunday shootout over the web. How can you watch sports on this display? Frankly, the Sammy plasma one my vote as the best display even with its weaker blacks, as it had much better color than any of the other displays by a wide margin IMHO. It also had the best detail and the most overall pleasing picture. For me, the viewing angle is the biggest problem I have with the Elite whether or not a firmware upgrade fixes the color issues as the set would be unwatchable on one of the sets in my room. How this color bug got past the eyes at THX is beyond me. There is no question that Kevin and Dwayne stated publicly and privately that once the color issue were resolved, the Elite would get their vote. I would agree, unless the off axis performance would be an issue in your viewing environment. My plan is to wait another year and see if they can get the bugs out and hopefully improve the off axis performance a bit and then, I will only consider the 70" I would also like to see them eliminate the yellow pixel which they are apparently doing for the regular Sharp 80". I do commend the folks at Elite for trying to move the reference bar forward for a flat panel and they have done so. Now they have to get the color bugs out and they have a winner, although the price needs a downward adjustment.

Undersaturation?? Whutchya talkinabout willis? Out of the box this set has incredible color. Calibrated settings preferred by one person may not be suitable for another person. Color saturation is definitely not a weak point of this set, you should investigate further.


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post #1873 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

You just don't seem to understand this. Of course every crowd is different, but it seems as if the overall voting still favored the Sharp over the two days. Perhaps the attendees were pressured by Sharp?

Nobody is hiding any issues with the Sharp, nobody is sucking up to Sharp, nobody is pushing one product over the other. You choose to believe otherwise, that's fine.

The fixes that will make this the best display bar none, will be out within a month or so, not years. So there is no need to wait for 'years'. In fact, since I don't appear to have any undersaturation issue, I'd say that right now it is simply the best display available bar none. Yes, it has an issue with cyan, but there is absolutely zero doubt in my mind that the overwhelming majority of people would never notice it unless it was pointed out. How do I know that? Because I was the only one that saw it. It eluded everyone else, so how obvious an issue can it be.

But of course if you have an issue with LED/LCDs this is all irrelevant. Look, we've gone round & round on this and I don't think cluttering up this thread with more repeat responses is productive. You feel one way and I feel another. That's fine. Done.

One thing no one has seemed to mention is that fact that it must have been *incredibly* difficult to get a large LCD panel to look and perform this good. It sets a completely new bar for the specific technology. I think Sharp / Pioneer did a phenomenal job of collaboration and engineering in this Elite venture, and for a first release set, even with the minor cyan issue and one firmware bug on the 60, very very well done. Look at the issues sammy had with it's 65c8000 panels- to the point of replacing almost every one sold, and heck Toshiba couldn't even bring their new 65UL 480hz panel to market and pulled it.


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post #1874 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Undersaturation?? Whutchya talkinabout willis? Out of the box this set has incredible color. Calibrated settings preferred by one person may not be suitable for another person. Color saturation is definitely not a weak point of this set, you should investigate further.

K_lewis, herein lies the problem I'm trying to get at. There is no question the sample at the shootout was undersaturated in THX mode. Me Elite shows nothing like that in THX mode. Granted I need to raise the color level to +8, but hell, theirs was at +12 if I recall and it was a fraction of my saturation at a lesser level!

So when you say you too have no saturation issues, is this in THX mode? I'd like to see more owners responding to this to see if there was an issue with the shootout's display. I find it hard to believe that if this was common that owners wouldn't be screaming. I guess you had to see their display to appreciate what I'm saying.

The cyan issue is universal, but I'm questioning the saturation issue.
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post #1875 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 08:02 AM
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Thanks for the truthful replies everyone.

As JimP pointed out, I am wired that when I upgrade I want every criteria to be just as good or better. So while I really want a larger screen for the WOW effect, I also do not want to compromise picture quality in any of the areas.

Time to do the responsible thing and spend a few hours at my A/V dealer today, really get to know all of the TV's, including the Elite 70" (even though it is way way out of my price range). Will also demo one of their high-end projectors, see if that route might also still be feasible.

The allure of the Samsung was that I could go into the store today and bring it home. Same with the Panny. The Elite and projector route would take some time of saving up and (for the projector) rearranging/repainting. As I have kept reminding myself, patience is key in this *hobby*.
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

K_lewis, herein lies the problem I'm trying to get at. There is no question the sample at the shootout was undersaturated in THX mode. Me Elite shows nothing like that in THX mode. Granted I need to raise the color level to +8, but hell, theirs was at +12 if I recall and it was a fraction of my saturation at a lesser level!

So when you say you too have no saturation issues, is this in THX mode? I'd like to see more owners responding to this to see if there was an issue with the shootout's display. I find it hard to believe that if this was common that owners wouldn't be screaming. I guess you had to see their display to appreciate what I'm saying.

The cyan issue is universal, but I'm questioning the saturation issue.

Ken, to my untrained eye the Elite also looked undersaturated at the shootout on Sunday. However I guess I wasn't as surprised as you: my 70 looks undersaturated (to me) in THX mode and also isf day and isf night. I'll check the color levels tonight and see how they compare to yours. I have to go to Optimum to get "green" grass.

By the way , I think I remember D-Nice and Kevin Miller saying that they calibrated the Elite in Movie mode, not THX mode, because of the Cyan issue. Not sure if/that matters, but I had that in my notes.
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post #1877 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 08:06 AM
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K_lewis, herein lies the problem I'm trying to get at. There is no question the sample at the shootout was undersaturated in THX mode. Me Elite shows nothing like that in THX mode. Granted I need to raise the color level to +8, but hell, theirs was at +12 if I recall and it was a fraction of my saturation at a lesser level!

So when you say you too have no saturation issues, is this in THX mode? I'd like to see more owners responding to this to see if there was an issue with the shootout's display. I find it hard to believe that if this was common that owners wouldn't be screaming. I guess you had to see their display to appreciate what I'm saying.

The cyan issue is universal, but I'm questioning the saturation issue.

I first ran on Standard (the out of the box setting), and am now running in THX Movie, Active Contrast on, that's about it- Everything else is default. For 3D I ran Standard for a bit and then switched to THX Movie 3D with the 3D brightness boost enabled. We watched some football saturday and quite a few movies over the weekend, both 2D and 3D, including a Kelly Slater surfing 3D adventure in Tahiti- A lot of greens in that tropical location shoot.

Every single person that came by this weekend was completely blown away by the Elite picture. Mixed crowd of AV enthusiasts and those that don't know an LCD from a DLP. Greens are very green, all other colors represent well. Very luminous and saturated in both Standard and THX Movie, seemed more saturated in Standard and I preferred the slightly toned down THX. Maybe there is a fundamental difference between the 60 and 70 in this respect? If so, it would have to be firmware related no? Again, I have not actually seen or demod a 60, so I can't comment on that model.

I did also get a lot of comments on 'wow that is a lot of $$ for a TV', which there is no denying... ;p


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post #1878 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 08:09 AM
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When is the shootout going up on youtube?

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Can they even post 4 hours on youtube?
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Thanks Dave. Yup, I know in my CMS controls I've got green saturation up to +10 THX mode. But at least where I've got it green looks perfectly normal and fairly close to my reference Kuro. The shootout Elite just didn't seem capable of getting anywhere near a normal green saturation.

Other info I forgot; 70X5, THX mode, no change to overall color or hue presets.
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post #1881 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 08:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by marine92104 View Post

I'm surprised that 2d & 3d was not taken into consideration.

I currently own a Kuro & since 3d is the reason I would look at replacing it I for one would like to know how the 3d is for the sets reviewed.

I know the Panasonics have ghosting problems from the threads I have read thru so I was looking forward to hearing how the Elite compared to the plasmas for 3d.

From what I've read thru in this thread there is no ghosting problems with 3d on the Elite.

I think it's great they took into consideration the 2d picture on these TVs but you're only reviewing half of what the TVs can do.

Why would you only do half a review? It's like turning in half of your homework.

What a joke.

I'd like to know what is the best 2d & 3d picture out of the sets used in the shootout. Anyone have that info & do you think it would be released?

Totally agree. The shootout should be reclassified as searching for the best set capable of displaying film based material in a dedicated, blackened out theater room rather the the "best" display. They way people used these displays has changed.

Oh, you want to test 3D performance because like it or not, a lot of films are starting to use it?
We don't test for that.
Oh, you want to test input lag because you will be gaming more hours than actually viewing movies?
We don't test for that.
Oh, you want to clock more hours watching sports and regular video frame rate broadcasts in the daytime with indirect light in the room, like most people do?
We don't test for that.

Don't get me wrong, I totally appreciate Robert and all who gave of their time and money to participate, but clearly some new guidelines need to be established or qualifiers made before you start throwing around the term shootout winner.
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post #1882 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 08:26 AM
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Can they even post 4 hours on youtube?

They split it up.

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post #1883 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by sycore View Post

Totally agree. The shootout should be reclassified as searching for the best set capable of displaying film based material in a dedicated, blackened out theater room rather the the "best" display. They way people used these displays has changed.

Oh, you want to test 3D performance because like it or not, a lot of film are starting to use it?
We don't test for that.
Oh, you want to test input lag because you will be gaming more hours than actually viewing movies?
We don't test for that?
Oh, you want to clock more hours watching sports and regular video frame rate broadcasts in the daytime with indirect light in the room, like most people do?
We don't test for that?

Don't get me wrong, I totally appreciate Robert and all who gave of their time and money to participate, but clearly some new guidelines need to be established or qualifiers made before you start throwing around the term shootout winner.

Well, I do really appreciate the time and costs invested by VE to hold the shootout. Definitely a lot of work and professional effort went into that.

Although there is definitely merit to your statement, since 3D and gaming are as much a part of use as movie / tv watching these days and all part of the purchase consideration. I too had expected to see at least a bit of 3D evaluations, gaming would have been a nice bonus.

I can say that the 3D picture on the Elite is the best 3D I have ever seen on any display, period, hands down, 100%. And I am not a 3D fan.


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post #1884 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sycore View Post

Totally agree. The shootout should be reclassified as searching for the best set capable of displaying film based material in a dedicated, blackened out theater room rather the the "best" display. They way people used these displays has changed.

Oh, you want to test 3D performance because like it or not, a lot of film are starting to use it?
We don't test for that.
Oh, you want to test input lag because you will be gaming more hours than actually viewing movies?
We don't test for that?
Oh, you want to clock more hours watching sports and regular video frame rate broadcasts in the daytime with indirect light in the room, like most people do?
We don't test for that?

Don't get me wrong, I totally appreciate Robert and all who gave of their time and money to participate, but clearly some new guidelines need to be established or qualifiers made before you start throwing around the term shootout winner.


I think your bringing this up is a good thing and will set some new standards for next years shootout.

Lag was tested to a dizzying effect as the patterns went across all the screen simultaneously.Only the ELITE and the VT30 had their motion controls turned on after seeing that all suffered from judder.The VT30 failed in it's STRONG setting but at the WEAK setting it was top notch with a very smooth picture.The ELITE was only set up in it's lowest setting which also removed judder and was the preference of the 2.The Elite was not set into any of it's higher settings so I cannot say if it too would have failed to be judder free.I am not sure if the other tvs have a motion control setting but i would tend to think so.Either way, if they did, they were not tested Saturday night and they should have been.
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post #1885 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Well, I do really appreciate the time and costs invested by VE to hold the shootout. Definitely a lot of work and professional effort went into that.

Amen to that! Robert is such a super-nice guy & great to do business with, too. He deserves a lot of praise for his efforts. Of course it doesn't hurt his business

I don't see any of the Atlanta home theater dealers doing anything like this kind of event and I've lived here 19 yrs. Even Georgia Home Theater, who used to be the largest laserdisc dealer in the south & one of the largest Pioneer Elite dealers in the area, hasn't done anything near this scale; no one has. Maybe a dealer will do a speaker company presentation, etc. But nothing like these shoot-outs, bringing in calibrators, mfg reps, industry pro's.

Especially in this economy, what Robert is doing is kind of special.

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post #1886 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Clamage View Post

Ken, to my untrained eye the Elite also looked undersaturated at the shootout on Sunday. However I guess I wasn't as surprised as you: my 70 looks undersaturated (to me) in THX mode and also isf day and isf night. I'll check the color levels tonight and see how they compare to yours. I have to go to Optimum to get "green" grass.

By the way , I think I remember D-Nice and Kevin Miller saying that they calibrated the Elite in Movie mode, not THX mode, because of the Cyan issue. Not sure if/that matters, but I had that in my notes.
Jim

Jim, Kevin had responded to my post over at HDJ. He agreed that something may not be right with Robert's sample judging from the undersaturation that was not correctable. They are sending Robert's unit back for analysis.

I'll be curious to hear what your setting is for color level. If you too have the same really dull greens at levels of say +8-12, then the issue may be more widespread.

As far as calibration at the shootout goes, no, they used THX mode for the calibration. They still thought it was the most accurate all around.
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post #1887 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Undersaturation?? Whutchya talkinabout willis? Out of the box this set has incredible color. Calibrated settings preferred by one person may not be suitable for another person. Color saturation is definitely not a weak point of this set, you should investigate further.

Sorry my fried but the set was very undersaturated. Seems that there is no disputing this and the sets calibrated by three experts,. who I have known for awhile. I am glad that yours isn't. The 70" had the same issues as the 60 but was not part of the shootout. It was an issue here.

Louder is NOT better!
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post #1888 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

I first ran on Standard (the out of the box setting), and am now running in THX Movie, Active Contrast on, that's about it- Everything else is default. For 3D I ran Standard for a bit and then switched to THX Movie 3D with the 3D brightness boost enabled. We watched some football saturday and quite a few movies over the weekend, both 2D and 3D, including a Kelly Slater surfing 3D adventure in Tahiti- A lot of greens in that tropical location shoot.

Every single person that came by this weekend was completely blown away by the Elite picture. Mixed crowd of AV enthusiasts and those that don't know an LCD from a DLP. Greens are very green, all other colors represent well. Very luminous and saturated in both Standard and THX Movie, seemed more saturated in Standard and I preferred the slightly toned down THX. Maybe there is a fundamental difference between the 60 and 70 in this respect? If so, it would have to be firmware related no? Again, I have not actually seen or demod a 60, so I can't comment on that model.

I did also get a lot of comments on 'wow that is a lot of $$ for a TV', which there is no denying... ;p

Thanks, I'll put you down as not having a saturation issue. But no, I don't think it's a difference between the 60 & 70 since I've got the 60 and have no issue with saturation either.

It's too bad, if their shootout sample had been more up to par, the Sharp would have even garnered more rave reviews. The cyan issue would still be there, but the lushness of the picture would have been where it needed to be.
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post #1889 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 09:03 AM
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Other info I forgot; 70X5, THX mode, no change to overall color or hue presets.

I'm actually surprised you cyan error wasn't greater.
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post #1890 of 14661 Old 10-10-2011, 09:07 AM
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Ken, I will check the 60 and 70 at work (Magnolia, in case you haven't read my posts) when I go in today. I specifically remember being initially disappointed with the 60 when we first got it in. The colors seemed really unsaturated, but I played with the settings, and became more and more impressed. Not sure where I ended up as far as the color setting goes. Why don't you give me your exact settings, and I'll enter them on the 70 (and 60, for comparison's sake). I'll report my results when I get home tonight.
Also, to anyone in the area, and I hope I'm not breaking any forum rules, but I work at the Magnolia/Best Buy in the Greater Kansas City area, at the Oak Park store (technically Overland Park, north of 95th on Quivera). I am working on setting all of the Sammy d8000s and d7000s, Panny GT- and VT30s according to David Katzmaier's user menu calibration settings, which should get them at least reasonably close, as they've all already been aged with different content. I'll also have both Elites displayed in Movie THX mode. Come in and ask for Dan. The only thing I ask is that you do not waste my time, and then not purchase from my store. I will cater to your needs. I will do whatever it takes (within reason, of course) to help you make an educated/informed decision, and I can match local competitor's prices. Best Buy WILL NOT allow me to match online prices, so again please don't waste my time only to try to haggle me down, and then not buy because Amazon or some other online vendor has it for a few dollars less, as I believe my time, service, expertise (although somewhat limited compared with other posters on this forum), and ability to actually let you view them in person (which no online vendor can offer) is worth a few more dollars. In short, just put your integrity hat on before you come, as I'll always have mine on. With that disclaimer out of the way, bring whatever content you like, just try to keep it somewhat family friendly, and I'll help you out to the best of my ability. Also, I'd love to know that you are a poster here, so let me know.
To the moderators and other posters, I apologize for being so off-topic with this post, I just want to give the posters in my area a place where they can view these sets in a somewhat controllable environment, make an educated decision, and receive great service while doing so. If I'm out of line, let me know, and I will remove this post. Thanks.

It's kinda funny...Most people use their television as a means to watch their favorite programming; I use my favorite programming as a means to watch my television.
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