Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 71 - AVS Forum
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post #2101 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

Hey Ken,

I adjusted the settings on both the 60 and 70 to your specifications. I did not see any undersaturatio whatsoever. In fact, I thought they may have been just a bit OVERsaturated. To my knowledge, neither of them have had firmware updates...and nobody at my store would "waste" their time doing it anyway, unless the Sharp rep did it without my knowledge. I can't be there all the time.

A couple of additions to this fine thread:

Dan

Thanks Dan, that's good to hear. It's beginning to look more and more likely that something was not right with the shootout display. When you consider that my setting has color at +8 and theirs was set at +12 (from what I recall) and still undersaturated, it's easy to see something was wrong. It appears that almost all owners are reporting no saturation issues with the exception of one. I think that owner had a situation just like the shootout display. No matter what his color levels were set to, greens and other colors were undersaturated.

The question as to why this is, is still unknown. If your 60 didn't get the update (I believe the 70s already shipped with the update), then it's less likely this has anything to do with the 2 software versions.

It's important to note that this has nothing to do with the cyan issue, but has everything to do with the serious saturation issue at the shootout. I can tell you that my display looked a hell of a lot better in THX mode than theirs did. Weird, very weird.
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post #2102 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


Thanks Dan, that's good to hear. It's beginning to look more and more likely that something was not right with the shootout display. When you consider that my setting has color at +8 and theirs was set at +12 (from what I recall) and still undersaturated, it's easy to see something was wrong. It appears that almost all owners are reporting no saturation issues with the exception of one. I think that owner had a situation just like the shootout display. No matter what his color levels were set to, greens and other colors were undersaturated.

The question as to why this is, is still unknown. If your 60 didn't get the update (I believe the 70s already shipped with the update), then it's less likely this has anything to do with the 2 software versions.

It's important to note that this has nothing to do with the cyan issue, but has everything to do with the serious saturation issue at the shootout. I can tell you that my display looked a hell of a lot better in THX mode than theirs did. Weird, very weird.

Ken, have you made any CMS adjustments to your settings?

EDIT: I saw your settings posted on the other side of town
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post #2103 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Leon! View Post


As much as I'm enjoying Sycore, KenRoss, & the rest of the true believers lose their cool & frantically try to put out fires on every page now, the shootout has kind of hijacked your official elite pro owners' thread. It's amazing that any discussion of the actual product in the title is no longer allowed except for that which pertains strictly to matters concerning the shootout, when it should be the reverse.

You'll have to rename this thread & start a new official owners' thread, because this is now the shootout thread.

I don't believe I've lost my cool at all. I'm trying to provide very objective information as best I can. Keep in mind I have a 42" and 60" Kuro, so I have absolutely no reason to be anything but objective. In actuality I have been very quick and very direct in pointing out issues with the Elite. It does no one any good to hide the issues on any display. Do I believe it's the best display out there? Yes. Do I believe it has some issues? Yes. Do I believe these issues will be corrected? Yes.

I find it very gratifying that Sharp has moved so quickly in trying to resolve the issues as they are identified. That's highly unusual with most manufacturers.
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post #2104 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post


Exactly. Which sucks cause this thread is so completely derailed. Worst of all. There has always been a shootout thread. Don't why we'd need to make this thread one of them as well.

Very true. A separate thread should probably be created.
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post #2105 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I don't believe I've lost my cool at all. I'm trying to provide very objective information as best I can. Keep in mind I have a 46" and 60" Kuro, so I have absolutely no reason to be anything but objective. In actuality I have been very quick and very direct in pointing out issues with the Elite. It does no one any good to hide the issues on any display. Do I believe it's the best display out there? Yes. Do I believe it has some issues? Yes. Do I believe these issues will be corrected? Yes.

I find it very gratifying that Sharp has moved so quickly in trying to resolve the issues as they are identified. That's highly unusual with most manufacturers.

46" Kuro? What model is that?
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post #2106 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

46" Kuro? What model is that?

well there was the 42" 4280, but he may have meant 50". i'm sure he will correct shortly.

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post #2107 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 05:58 AM
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if there is a shootout thread..i will gladly go there to continue the discussion..I am not an owner but was at the shootout and took part in the voting..so if someone wants to point me in that direction, I would appreciate that

thanks
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post #2108 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

i would of thought at least c-net by now.

David K. at CNET tweeted yesterday that he did not have an Elite in house yet and had no idea when he would.

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post #2109 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

46" Kuro? What model is that?

That's the 46" Kuro that exists only in my mind.

Sorry, I meant the 42" Kuro (Pro 950HD).
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post #2110 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by donnymac51 View Post

David K. at CNET tweeted yesterday that he did not have an Elite in house yet and had no idea when he would.

If Sharp is smart, it will be after the software fix is released.
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post #2111 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

I mumbled that yesterday. Someone said the elite has a 3ms response time in game mode. I doubt that because my Toshiba 670u has the best input lag of any LED @ 16ms.

Ish plasma don't even have a 3ms response time

That "someone" was the Elite rep who physically tested it himself and reconfirmed what I've been saying about it in front of you and me. As I've said to you in person, I play all fighting games online competively and require quick responses. I used to play on a VT25 and a Samsung plasma at two buddies houses and can notice the difference.

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post #2112 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 08:00 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Mike Fury View Post

That "someone" was the Elite rep who physically tested it himself and reconfirmed what I've been saying about it in front of you and me. As I've said to you in person, I play all fighting games online competively and require quick responses. I used to play on a VT25 and a Samsung plasma at two buddies houses and can notice the difference.

So what are you saying, it is 16ms or not? Did you test for it and can give us a definitive number or range ?

Also, if anyone knows were the shootout thread is on this forum can they post the link? I searched for it but only found a locked one from 2008.
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post #2113 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Mike Fury View Post

That "someone" was the Elite rep who physically tested it himself and reconfirmed what I've been saying about it in front of you and me. As I've said to you in person, I play all fighting games online competively and require quick responses. I used to play on a VT25 and a Samsung plasma at two buddies houses and can notice the difference.

I understand Mike, but reps will say anything. Untill someone does an actual input lag test I'm calling BS on 3ms response time. My Toshiba responds quickly also, but was measured @ 16ms for input lag
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post #2114 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 08:12 AM
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After setting the 60 and 70 to Ken's specifications yesterday, I for sure made up my mind to purchase an Elite. I think I am going for the 60. We have The Dark Knight playing on the 70 at the store (Magnolia), and it looks incredible. I remember when I first saw TDK on a KURO. The scene that shows Batman on top of the building in Hong Kong at night before he extradites Lau (don't know if that is the correct spelling) is stunning. On the Elite, you can see the different buildings delineated from one another and against a black background...truly beautiful. I still want to see an Elite calibrated and in a dark room.
One other experiment: I kept the Low 120hz setting on, as it doesn't seem to exhibit any of the motion artifacts or SOE that is characteristic of other LCDs with that setting on. A customer came in and wanted to see sports on several sets. Since we don't have any live broadcast in Mag, I convinced my supervisor to let me open one of the "Superbowl Champions" blu-rays. Wow! With the light output of the Elite, it looked like I was at the game. We have that whole wall on an HDMI splitter, so it's easy to compare. All of the plasmas (Sammy D7000 and D8000, Panny GT30) looked good, but were dim, which I knew they would be. I'm not really a sports fan, but that was an impressive demo. Also, since the Elite 60" was right next to the Sammy UN60D8000 (LED based LCD, for those unaware), I did some motion tests. There was extremely noticable and really bad motion artifacting on the Sammy, with the ball looking like a comet at times. On one particular fieldgoal kick (around 12:10...now I'll have to get the actual name of the disc) the ball completely disappeared several times on its way through the goal due to the 240hz on the Sammy. There were several other instances of artifacting, but those were highlights. And now the Elite: In a direct comparison, I saw no...and I mean zero, zilch, nada...artifacts. It looked like a plasma, even with the 120hz on low; and I compared it directly with the other plasmas on the wall to be sure. One thing I thought about while writing this (and I'm doing it on my iphone, since my Mac died yesterday, so it's a little slower process) is that I didn't try turning the motion setting down on the Samsung, nor did I turn it up on the Elite. So it wasn't a completely fair comparison, though I was extremely impressed with the Elite's ability to mimic a plasma and exhibit no motion issues whatsoever that I could detect. OK, that's enough for one post...

It's kinda funny...Most people use their television as a means to watch their favorite programming; I use my favorite programming as a means to watch my television.
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post #2115 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 08:36 AM
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I wanted to give a shout to k_lewis. I appreciate your replies about my offering to help fellow posters in Magnolia. I am passionate, as you guys are, about quality, and if I'm not offering my expertise and access to the gear to you who are passionate, then why the hell am I even there. It's the high end equipment which drew me to Magnolia in the first place, and, at least for me, it's not nearly as rewarding a hobby if I can't share it with someone (I'm married, sorry guys...unfortunately she's not into this stuff like we are). So thanks, k_lewis, for your kind words.

Now, a totally random question. Does any Elite owner have Tge Incredible Hulk (with Ed Norton)in their movie collection? I remember watching it on the PRO-111FD, and finding a camera pan that is a trememdous torture test. I do not remember the KURO handling it very well at all. I would like to hear the results of a comparison if any Elite owner who has a KURO as well has that movie and can test it. The test is a veeeerrry long camera sweep over a Central or South American town right at the beginning of the film. Let me know. Thanks. Dan.

It's kinda funny...Most people use their television as a means to watch their favorite programming; I use my favorite programming as a means to watch my television.
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post #2116 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 09:19 AM
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does anyone have any calibrate settings for elite 70 inch ?

hdtv
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post #2117 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rick2900 View Post

does anyone have any calibrate settings for elite 70 inch ?

I'm using the following settings on my 70" at the moment but it might change.

PICTURE SETTINGS > (THX) Picture Mode

Intelligent Variable Contrast > Advanced Low

OPC > Off

Color > +8

Motion Enhancement > 120Hz Low

Film Mode > Off

View Option > Dot by Dot

 

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post #2118 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick2900 View Post

does anyone have any calibrate settings for elite 70 inch ?

I gave these and from the feeback they seem fine for the 70 too:
THX

Local Dimming- On
OPC- Off
Backlight- Standard
Contrast +32
Brightness (-2)
Color +8
Tint 0
Sharpness +1

CMS Hue:
R (-4)
Y 0
G 0
C (-10)
B +10
M 0

CMS Saturation:
G +10
(all others at default)

CMS Value:
C (-5)
(all others at default)

Color Temp:
No changes

Motion Setting: Off

Precision Color: Off

Active Contrast: Off

Film: Off

DNR: Medium
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post #2119 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 10:26 AM
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So... let me get this straight. A panel shootout happened and, apart from a color fidelity problem that Sharp promised could be solvable through a firmware update... these new panels were on par or better than a Kuro? Is this the general consensus, D-nice included (accepting that the color issue does get solved through firmware)?

If so I'm both surprised and really, really happy. As somebody has mentioned upthread, 70" is the new 60"

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post #2120 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post

So... let me get this straight. A panel shootout happened and, apart from a color fidelity problem that Sharp promised could be solvable through a firmware update... these new panels were on par or better than a Kuro? Is this the general consensus, D-nice included (accepting that the color issue does get solved through firmware)?

If so I'm both surprised and really, really happy. As somebody has mentioned upthread, 70" is the new 60"

I think you pretty well summed it up. It would seem that IF a color fix comes out they are at least equal to the best Kuro...excepting off axis viewing could still be a problem for some people. As you noted the larger size is nice for some people, and they will certainly look better in a really bright room than the Kuro did. For the record though the Sammy and Panny plasmas were pretty darn close as well in overall PQ, and a lot less expensive.
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post #2121 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 10:32 AM
 
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The 60X5 ANSI CR and MLL values were published from the shootout. The Elite 60X5 scored an amazing 15941:1 CR and .0004 MLL with local dimming on. These are generally thought of as the two most important measures of picture quality, along with motion and color accuracy. The Elite bested the other set there by a good margin, based on just the numbers. You can check out the rest at the webpage.
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post #2122 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 10:45 AM
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thank you i was going to get it calibrated it but i find out in the shoot out that there was a bug on isf mode and with the cyan color so am going to wait for the update

hdtv
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post #2123 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geickel View Post

I wanted to give a shout to k_lewis. I appreciate your replies about my offering to help fellow posters in Magnolia. I am passionate, as you guys are, about quality, and if I'm not offering my expertise and access to the gear to you who are passionate, then why the hell am I even there. It's the high end equipment which drew me to Magnolia in the first place, and, at least for me, it's not nearly as rewarding a hobby if I can't share it with someone (I'm married, sorry guys...unfortunately she's not into this stuff like we are). So thanks, k_lewis, for your kind words.

Now, a totally random question. Does any Elite owner have Tge Incredible Hulk (with Ed Norton)in their movie collection? I remember watching it on the PRO-111FD, and finding a camera pan that is a trememdous torture test. I do not remember the KURO handling it very well at all. I would like to hear the results of a comparison if any Elite owner who has a KURO as well has that movie and can test it. The test is a veeeerrry long camera sweep over a Central or South American town right at the beginning of the film. Let me know. Thanks. Dan.

Sure bud, no problem. Very commendable to have you go over and beyond to represent here. Magnolia should give you some kudos as well. I know I've posted several times completely cracking on Magnolia and my poor experiences, which unfortunately seems to be the norm these days, at least in So. Cal- But it's good to know there are indeed some good stores out there with caring, qualified staff.

BTW congrats on your upcoming Elite purchase. Get the 70"!!!! For your "special price", you'd be **crazy** no to.


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post #2124 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 11:32 AM
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@Geickel - I am taking delivery of a 60" Elite on Friday and also have "The Incredible Hulk" on Blu-Ray. I can check out the panning sequence you mentioned, although I do not (nor have I ever) own a Kuro...
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post #2125 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 11:34 AM
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probably a silly question- what is the benefit of having "film mode" off or on? And would this setting be different depending on watching a BD or DirecTV?


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post #2126 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 11:51 AM
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I hate film mode no matter what I'm watching. I get the SOE while watching film and tv and like it much better in the off position. You'll have to see if you can live with it on but I don't recommend it.

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post #2127 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by dvdguru View Post

I hate film mode no matter what I'm watching. I get the SOE while watching film and tv and like it much better in the off position. You'll have to see if you can live with it on but I don't recommend it.

What's strange is m.e and f.m both have interpolated frame inserts. it's like a double version. i know m.e is for motion and f.m for smoothing out pans. i just use 120hz low, this appears to be the best of both worlds.

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post #2128 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 12:25 PM
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Thanks guys- I have it set to fluid motion and film mode on, we have not noticed anything bad in terms of PQ. I'll run with 120 low and f.m. off for a bit and see how it looks. Probably just a personal prefs choice, whether you prefer the softer look of plasma and low frame rate, or the more high def look of LCD and increased frame rate. Sort of like moving from a 1mp video camera @480 to a 12mp camera @1080.

On the older or lesser quality LCD displays, the m.e. comp settings always made for an unpleasant experience since their was regular judder, or the motion in some cases seemed to be "slow mo". The Elite just runs like a razor sharp smooth as butter set, it's quite amazing.


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post #2129 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sintech View Post

The 60X5 ANSI CR and MLL values were published from the shootout. The Elite 60X5 scored an amazing 15941:1 CR and .0004 MLL with local dimming on. These are generally thought of as the two most important measures of picture quality, along with motion and color accuracy. The Elite bested the other set there by a good margin, based on just the numbers. You can check out the rest at the webpage.

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post #2130 of 14582 Old 10-11-2011, 12:41 PM
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Wow. Transformers 2 looks crazy good in this tv. Like wow!
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Sharp Elite Black 70inch Pro 70x5fd Flat Panel 3d Led Hdtv , Sharp Elite Pro 60x5fd 3d Led Hdtv
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