Official Sharp Elite PRO-70X5 and 60X5 Owners Thread - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 14590 Old 09-09-2011, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

The shadow detail in the Dark Knight appeard to be lost with blacks being crushed. I sat with the Magnolia manager and confirmed it was in fact in THX mode. There are variables here (like colorspace on the bdp), but I perceived shadow detail levels lost, which might artificially create a "blacker" black to a naked eye browsing the showroom. This probably could be corrected with calibration

wouldn't it be possible that it's local dimming gone awry?

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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

There is a fair amount of evidence that the 80" glass for the 80" panel is actually being made on an older 40" fab, using the equivalent of 4 panels worth of substrate. The fact that it's such a lower-end model lends credence to this.

To bring it up to modern standards, a number of things would have to happen. First, the backlight array and electronics would have to be added. This has nothing at all to do with the actual fabbing of the panel which mean's it's certainly realistic to bring that tech to the 80" display, even if it continues to get made in the older fab.

The next tricks, however, will involve bringing the panel up to modern standards and those will be trickier. Not impossible, but trickier as enough has changed in the production of the panels that 73x panels and 63x panels are generationally different. If Sharp is committed to an 80" Elite, they'd have to invest to make it happen. My guess is that investment would be millions, perhaps low eight figures. It's inherently a low-volume product, but one I think they could sell for good money -- figure at least $10,000, even if the 70" Elite gets cheaper next year.

Honestly, though, the ROI on such an investment isn't that amazing

This is surprising as the 8G is under conversion to produce small medium size panels, supposedly retina display quality. Doesn't make sense to invest in 8G to make huge size when utilization in 10G is still not full.
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post #212 of 14590 Old 09-09-2011, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post


This is surprising as the 8G is under conversion to produce small medium size panels, supposedly retina display quality. Doesn't make sense to invest in 8G to make huge size when utilization in 10G is still not full.

I challenge you to cut the 10g panels into 80" displays and have that make an iota of sense.

I also challenge you to explain how they are managing to make a non-Quattron panel in the 10G fab.

For these reasons -- as well as a claim by someone here specifically stating it -- I believe the 80" is being made at an older fab using a substrate originally designed for 40" panels.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #213 of 14590 Old 09-09-2011, 08:45 PM
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thats crazy profit that they think they are going to make, don't buy it, so we the consumer can control these prices lets show them
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post #214 of 14590 Old 09-09-2011, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post


Time for me to get a part time job at Best Buy.

Working there will bit get you this set cheap. Our discount sucks.
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post #215 of 14590 Old 09-09-2011, 09:18 PM
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Saw the 70x5 at BB today. They popped in a 3D demo CD for me with various scenes, and boy, did it look awesome! Kind of disappointed that the screen was pretty glossy though. Can't justify spending $8K for it though, so will wait for the price to drop down.
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post #216 of 14590 Old 09-09-2011, 09:29 PM
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Can't justified paying 8K for any tv lol. I don't care what it does.
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post #217 of 14590 Old 09-09-2011, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Can't justified paying 8K for any tv lol. I don't care what it does.

The random DirecTV salesman that trolls around Best Buy said he needs it to cook him dinner and drive him to work at that price. lol
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post #218 of 14590 Old 09-09-2011, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post


The random DirecTV salesman that trolls around Best Buy said he needs it to cook him dinner and drive him to work at that price. lol

Bahahahahaha. I agree!
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post #219 of 14590 Old 09-09-2011, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

The random DirecTV salesman that trolls around Best Buy said he needs it to cook him dinner and drive him to work at that price. lol

The Elite is fully capable of heating up a burrito. Maybe not as quickly as a plasma, but the difference is negligible. Also, you can't even buy a Hyundai for $8k anymore. This sales rep is exaggerating- I question whether he's actually seen the Elite in person.
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post #220 of 14590 Old 09-09-2011, 10:19 PM
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Yeah, the Directv guy came up to me too the other day and said "you must have bought 15 TV's since you've been in here for 3 hours! I pointed at the Elite 70" and when he saw the pricetag his mouth dropped open lol He said "what are you gonna watch on that?" and I advised him Blu-Ray and Directv He grinned and gave me the thumbs up. I also had to show the receipt to that bagchecker guy at the door on the way out of the store and when he saw the price total his eyes got real big. lol I guess it was because I was only carrying the blu-ray player. I just said "yep, I know. The tv is being delivered though as my 350z will barely hold the blu-ray player "

Elite PRO-70X5FD!

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post #221 of 14590 Old 09-09-2011, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I challenge you to cut the 10g panels into 80" displays and have that make an iota of sense.

I also challenge you to explain how they are managing to make a non-Quattron panel in the 10G fab.

For these reasons -- as well as a claim by someone here specifically stating it -- I believe the 80" is being made at an older fab using a substrate originally designed for 40" panels.

Don't have to challenge me. I didn't say that. Sharp management said they are converting.

https://www.semiconportal.com/en/arc...small-lcd.html

Technically 10G can produce 80" cuts MIXED with other cuts like we discussed before. It was irkuck that insist it has to be all same cuts.

But I take your point on the non-quattron panel. I'm just curious what Sharp is trying to do here. Why invest more in 8G for large size when they are converting to small/ medium.
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post #222 of 14590 Old 09-09-2011, 11:57 PM
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Price drop, price drop.. Noone is willing to pay for quality. Yet people wonder why elite stopped their plasmas.
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post #223 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Don't have to challenge me. I didn't say that. Sharp management said they are converting.

https://www.semiconportal.com/en/arc...small-lcd.html

Technically 10G can produce 80" cuts MIXED with other cuts like we discussed before. It was irkuck that insist it has to be all same cuts.

It can produce mixed cuts (you and I agree), and I did an analysis of how to make that work at the 10G fab. It's not amazing, but if you cut lengthwise, you get 3 x 80 and 4 x 60 off the 10G sheets (assuming I did the math right, it's clearly high-end math)

I'm guessing they are making the 80" panels at Kameyama #2. It's a 2-up with some waste of the motherglass, but not horrible waste. Seems like they can migrate it to the Sakai 10G at some point. If we are to believe the article, it seems like they can keep making those 80s on the 8G for quite a while since the conversion to IGZO for small displays is gradual. And in the meantime, they can ramp up the 80s at Sakai for higher-end units if they decide the market is worth sticking with (likely, they appear headed toward a supply deal with LG and a gradual abandonment of making anything below 60 for TV on their own).

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #224 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by tweakinaddy View Post

Price drop, price drop.. Noone is willing to pay for quality. Yet people wonder why elite stopped their plasmas.



people want alot for less, thats how life works lol
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post #225 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 12:56 AM
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"The 10G glass substrate measuring 3,130 x 2,880mm can be cut efficiently into eight 60-inch panels or six 70-inch panels. "Although 18 40-inch panels can be cut from the 10G substrate, the size did not translate into profitability," said Katayama."

This confirms they are cutting 6x70" which is the secret of low price of their 70" panels. Mixing sizes is much less efficient and I doubt they use it. I rather bet that for making 80" panels they converted older plant (no yellow subpixel for 80") which enables them to make 2 panels from single sheet. Less efficient but the plant is completely amortized so no investment expenses to count. In any case, market for large panels is limited, e.g. there are strong rumors that Sharp X5 70" will not be sold in EUrope. Same with Samsung 65".

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post #226 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 02:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Don't have to challenge me. I didn't say that. Sharp management said they are converting.

https://www.semiconportal.com/en/arc...small-lcd.html

Its always humorous when some criticizes for posting facts.
Quote:
"Here is a list of benefits from Sharp’s UV2A technology:

Improved contrast ratio to 5000:1 (static), which is about 60% higher than conventional models.
Increased aperture ratio by 20% that improves optical efficiency leading to enhanced energy efficiencies.
100% faster response times: Faster response times are required for smooth implementation of certain 3D technologies in LCD TVs.
Simplified TFT LCD panel structure leads to lower cost of manufacturing, higher yields and faster throughput."

This is what we are seeing with the Elite and the 735. Which is why I purchased the 735 as it is a true advance which leverages off the lower cost of manufacturing. The native contrast is directly comparable to plasma, but with no limiting of the whites.
This is why LG now wants to now buy the 70+ Sharp panels.
Gee its nice when everything makes sense!
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post #227 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 02:36 AM
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Hi Everybody!!!!

I spent some time checking out the 70 inch Elite this evening and all I can say is, I was completely stunned, mind-boggled, and blown-away!!!! I went in with pretty high expectations, and not only were my expectations met, but in many ways, exceeded. Everybody who checked out the 70inch, experienced true shock and awe...Methinks Samsung and Sony finally have some real and serious competition...Not only is Sharp back with a vengeance, but they have far exceeded any and every previously held market and design position they ever occupied. I would go so far as to say that Sharp has got to be the new King of Flat Panel TVs...

Certainly, Sharp leapfrogged themselves, and all the competition, in one fail swoop. All the hype about how they invested way ahead of the curve by putting the 200 Elite engineers on the team that designed this behemoth, must be absolutely true. The are no smoke and mirrors here, no gimmickry, just the real deal. It really is great to see somebody or an entity just go for absolute perfection and actually attain it!!!!

The black levels were so black, they made the black aluminum bezel look dark grey. It is true, the screen is so black, if there is nothing on the screen–but it is turned on–you would swear it was turned off!?! My girlfriend and I checked out a whole bunch of demo disks, as well as The Dark Night, and we were constantly awestruck. She was so impressed, she told me she wanted to go in halves with me on it. Can you believe that!?!

I will try to sum up the 70inch Sharp Elite in a nutshell by going out on a limb and saying THE 70 INCH ELITE IS WHAT THE WORLD HAS BEEN WAITING FOR!!!!

Let me be specific. When I started my quest into the world of flat screens, more than a decade ago, I was looking to create an HTPC and home-theater that could rival or equal a movie theater. The picture on the 70 inch Sharp was so vivid, clear, sharp and perfectly detailed. The THX mode offers the best of both worlds in the sense it gives you really rich, deep, saturated color, that somehow remains very true and accurate. Somehow the image appears glossy and matte-like at the same time, and the 70inch screen is so big and immersive, it just reeks of divinity, and in my mind, finally delivers on giving a true home-theater experience!!!!

Off-angle viewing was pretty good, and I think since the 70inch is so big to begin with, you would probably have a difficult time sitting far enough off-angle for it to even be an issue. Also, we listened to it with just the built-in speaker, which sounded pretty descent. It lacked base, but would sound good for watching CNN or a Presidential Speech.

I realize nothing is perfect in this world, and I know many people love to nitpick, but I will say there does not seem to be much room for improvement with the 70 inch Elite. I believe it sets a new high-water-mark, that will be remembered as a turning point not only for Sharp, but also in the history of flat screen displays.

I truly believe the Elite not only lives completely up to the hype, but exceeds it–significantly!!!!!!!!!

Warmest regards,

Jake

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post #228 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 03:29 AM
 
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So like dudes using your acute observational skills just how noticeable is the dirty screen effect (DSE) on the Elite?
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post #229 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

So like dudes using your acute observational skills just how noticeable is the dirty screen effect (DSE) on the Elite?


I looked at the 70 incher at magnolia for about 20min and had a hard time seeing any. Doesn't mean it isn't there, just that in that time frame it didn't see it. I watched some of Life looking to see if there was some in the panning shots, but it was pretty dang clean. Compare that to the HX929 where I could see the banding which leads to DSE almost immidiately.

I'm quite sensitive to DSE and that can pretty much be a deal breaker for me if a set has it. This Sharp Elite was really good and if I was going to get a set this for sure would the one I'd try and get since everything else about this set was amazing. Well the 60 incher would be the one I get since it's cheaper.
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post #230 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Technically 10G can produce 80" cuts MIXED with other cuts like we discussed before. It was irkuck that insist it has to be all same cuts.

But I take your point on the non-quattron panel. I'm just curious what Sharp is trying to do here. Why invest more in 8G for large size when they are converting to small/ medium.

Guys, think a little. Mixing is possible but does not make any sense. Say you mix 80" and 40". So you get a couple few of 40" which are stamped anyway in big quantities (=low price) on neighbouring lines. You have to handle those few 40" while your target is big expensive 80". The 40" you get have much higher inherent cost that those from other lines. I bet that instead of going to such troubles it would be simpler thus to waste the glass.

Massive production lines operate efficiently when timing is optimized and this is achieved by repeated uniform operations.

You seem to be obsessed only with glass waste. Glass waste is but one factor here.

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post #231 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

So like dudes using your acute observational skills just how noticeable is the dirty screen effect (DSE) on the Elite?

Shouldn't it be the same as your 735 calibrated with an x-rite i1?...that's what I keep reading anyway.
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post #232 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

"The 10G glass substrate measuring 3,130 x 2,880mm can be cut efficiently into eight 60-inch panels or six 70-inch panels. "Although 18 40-inch panels can be cut from the 10G substrate, the size did not translate into profitability," said Katayama."

This confirms they are cutting 6x70" which is the secret of low price of their 70" panels. Mixing sizes is much less efficient and I doubt they use it. I rather bet that for making 80" panels they converted older plant (no yellow subpixel for 80") which enables them to make 2 panels from single sheet. Less efficient but the plant is completely amortized so no investment expenses to count. In any case, market for large panels is limited, e.g. there are strong rumors that Sharp X5 70" will not be sold in EUrope. Same with Samsung 65".

Where have you heard that the 70" X5 will not be sold in Europe?

That's not good news

Anyone else know anything about this?

Thanks,

/Martin
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post #233 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 08:16 AM
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Going to order the 70" this coming week- I am a previous Kuro Elite 60" owner and frankly this is the first new TV that I've been excited about since letting go of the Kuro last year. I was initially put off by the pricing, but, these days quality costs money. For those comparing the Elite to the regular Sharp 70, there is NO comparison IMO, as I spent a lot of time reviewing the Sharp 70's as a purchase consideration. I think for the price they are fine, but, they dont compete at all with the Elite (at least not as of yet - hopefully Sharp will not cannibalize the Elite tech). It will be fed by my Oppo 95 for BD playback, with sound provided via Theta CBIII, Theta amps and Genesis 6.1 speaker system.

Big question- Are there any discrete IR codes available for this set yet? I noticed the remote only has the typical power toggle, and for example, I'd need a separate on / off for integration with my system controllers. I'd also need direct source codes as well- (HDMI1, HDMI2, etc). I could go RS232 but I'm trying to avoid having to buy an additional RS232 controller just for the Elite TV, sort of overkill.

Thanks for the informative posts by the obviously happy Elite owners here.


A/V Gear: Elite 70" display, Theta CBIIIHD processor, Theta Intrepid amplifier, Oppo 95 BD, BG Radia LA800 mains, BG Radia CC400 center, four BG Radia R18i surrounds, dual 18" Bag End Infrasubs, two Fuhrman P1800PF AVRs, Synergistic Silver Reference active cables & interconnects. 

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post #234 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Going to order the 70" this coming week- I am a previous Kuro Elite 60" owner and frankly this is the first new TV that I've been excited about since letting go of the Kuro last year. I was initially put off by the pricing, but, these days quality costs money. For those comparing the Elite to the regular Sharp 70, there is NO comparison IMO, as I spent a lot of time reviewing the Sharp 70's as a purchase consideration. I think for the price they are fine, but, they dont compete at all with the Elite (at least not as of yet - hopefully Sharp will not cannibalize the Elite tech). It will be fed by my Oppo 95 for BD playback, with sound provided via Theta CBIII, Theta amps and Genesis 6.1 speaker system.

Big question- Are there any discrete IR codes available for this set yet? I noticed the remote only has the typical power toggle, and for example, I'd need a separate on / off for integration with my system controllers. I'd also need direct source codes as well- (HDMI1, HDMI2, etc). I could go RS232 but I'm trying to avoid having to buy an additional RS232 controller just for the Elite TV, sort of overkill.

Thanks for the informative posts by the obviously happy Elite owners here.

Excellent plan, I love it. I'm curious about discrete remote codes as well, as I have a pretty extensive 3-zone Universal Remote IR/RF setup, and will need these codes for proper "activity switching" and such. Obviously, learning via IR is easy if it comes to that, but that doesn't help with direct discrete codes for Input source and power, etc. Not willing to go RS-232 either in my case. But I guess I have time to figure this out, my calibrated 70inch will be delivered by VE the week of Sept. 19th. About 10 days out, and it's killing me! I also use an Oppo95 with sound via Anthem's D2V and A5 and A2 amp into B&W speakers. The Oppo is the best decision I've made in a long time, this thing rocks. Can't wait to see it do 3D to the Elite! Avatar is first day viewing material no doubt!

Congrats k_lewis! Welcome to the Elite owner's club.

-Brian
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post #235 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ayla View Post

where have you heard that the 70" x5 will not be sold in europe?

That's not good news

anyone else know anything about this?

Thanks,

+1
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post #236 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 09:55 AM
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Moreover, why is it written in French on the packaging of Elites? Ago said in French:"Deux paires de lunettes 3D incluses"...I hope (and I'm not the only) that this screen will be released in europe
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post #237 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeE View Post

Hi Everybody!!!!

I spent some time checking out the 70 inch Elite this evening and all I can say is, I was completely stunned, mind-boggled, and blown-away!!!! I went in with pretty high expectations, and not only were my expectations met, but in many ways, exceeded. Everybody who checked out the 70inch, experienced true shock and awe...Methinks Samsung and Sony finally have some real and serious competition...Not only is Sharp back with a vengeance, but they have far exceeded any and every previously held market and design position they ever occupied. I would go so far as to say that Sharp has got to be the new King of Flat Panel TVs...

Certainly, Sharp leapfrogged themselves, and all the competition, in one fail swoop. All the hype about how they invested way ahead of the curve by putting the 200 Elite engineers on the team that designed this behemoth, must be absolutely true. The are no smoke and mirrors here, no gimmickry, just the real deal. It really is great to see somebody or an entity just go for absolute perfection and actually attain it!!!!

The black levels were so black, they made the black aluminum bezel look dark grey. It is true, the screen is so black, if there is nothing on the screen-but it is turned on-you would swear it was turned off!?! My girlfriend and I checked out a whole bunch of demo disks, as well as The Dark Night, and we were constantly awestruck. She was so impressed, she told me she wanted to go in halves with me on it. Can you believe that!?!

I will try to sum up the 70inch Sharp Elite in a nutshell by going out on a limb and saying THE 70 INCH ELITE IS WHAT THE WORLD HAS BEEN WAITING FOR!!!!

Let me be specific. When I started my quest into the world of flat screens, more than a decade ago, I was looking to create an HTPC and home-theater that could rival or equal a movie theater. The picture on the 70 inch Sharp was so vivid, clear, sharp and perfectly detailed. The THX mode offers the best of both worlds in the sense it gives you really rich, deep, saturated color, that somehow remains very true and accurate. Somehow the image appears glossy and matte-like at the same time, and the 70inch screen is so big and immersive, it just reeks of divinity, and in my mind, finally delivers on giving a true home-theater experience!!!!

Off-angle viewing was pretty good, and I think since the 70inch is so big to begin with, you would probably have a difficult time sitting far enough off-angle for it to even be an issue. Also, we listened to it with just the built-in speaker, which sounded pretty descent. It lacked base, but would sound good for watching CNN or a Presidential Speech.

I realize nothing is perfect in this world, and I know many people love to nitpick, but I will say there does not seem to be much room for improvement with the 70 inch Elite. I believe it sets a new high-water-mark, that will be remembered as a turning point not only for Sharp, but also in the history of flat screen displays.

I truly believe the Elite not only lives completely up to the hype, but exceeds it-significantly!!!!!!!!!

Warmest regards,

Jake

Yeah, it really does grow on you. I've watched about 2 hours of cumulative time on it, and I'm more impressed by it each time I come back. The black levels in THX mode look noticably darker than on my non-calibrated (using D-Nice's offsets only) Pro-111FD.

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post #238 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 10:36 AM
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anyone know what intelligent variable contrast acutually consists of? is it purely a software component to drive the LED backlights? or is there new hardware involved?

the description of ivc on the official elite website sounds like pure marketing speak.
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post #239 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post


Movie (THX) Picture mode.

That's an... interesting rendition of the scene.

Sony HX900:

(bad photo, camera didn't focus right)

Blu-ray:
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post #240 of 14590 Old 09-10-2011, 11:47 AM
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Different cameras will lead to different pictures like that. One might have longer exposure while the other less. Better or worse camera. Etc... You guys are looking to much into these pics.
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Sharp Elite Black 70inch Pro 70x5fd Flat Panel 3d Led Hdtv , Sharp Elite Pro 60x5fd 3d Led Hdtv
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