CES 2012 - what to expect? - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 268 Old 01-10-2012, 10:46 AM
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Why are all the companies going edge lit? I get it is cheaper, but no other options?
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post #242 of 268 Old 01-10-2012, 10:51 AM
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For the posters that wont buy a large Sharp panel because of your concern about motion blur,,,,, I have the 70" and plan on getting the 80" very soon.

"ANY" motion blur I have seen (which is almost none) is a very small trade off for the enjoyment I get watching a 70 " and soon to be 80" picture.

I'll take a little motion blur any day of the week on a 80 inch panel rather than watching a tiny 55" or 60" picture.

Cheers
Davyo
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post #243 of 268 Old 01-10-2012, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken711 View Post

Does anyone think Sony will announce later in the year a replacement for the HX929 perhaps a HX950 with full local dimming?

If you check overall status of Sony (plants sold, JV with Samsung ended) it looks unlikely. Then the real question is how long the HX929 modeles will be available in shops. The 65" HX929 is just morphing into a legendary vintage classics.


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Originally Posted by Feddie View Post

Why are all the companies going edge lit? I get it is cheaper, but no other options?

It looks sexy, PQ is good enough and the price is right = heaven for mass consumers.

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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Thank heaven for Sharp and the Sakai plant, a facility only built for a future that honestly never materialized (pre-financial crisis). It shows that big bets can pay off even when the world changes around them. The 945 is a year late as far as I'm concerned -- it was the 935 in 2011 -- but if it's what it could be, that should be a killer model. I'd love to see Samsung solve its uniformity issues and make their flagship set a bona fide flagship, but so far, both 65s have been utterly lackluster.

Hymns for Sharp might be premature. While they made spectacular jump to the top of the cream, economic results of this are still unclear.
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post #244 of 268 Old 01-10-2012, 11:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

If you check overall status of Sony (plants sold, JV with Samsung ended) it looks unlikely. Then the real question is how long the HX929 modeles will be available in shops. The 65" HX929 is just morphing into a legendary vintage classics.




It looks sexy, PQ is good enough and the price is right = heaven for mass consumers.



Hymns for Sharp might be premature. While they made spectacular jump to the top of the cream, economic results of this are still unclear.

Thanks. I guess I better consider the HX929 before they end production.
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post #245 of 268 Old 01-10-2012, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by caneaddict View Post

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1326154495

Now that Panny has released their info, most everything is out.

Wow if I'm reading right it seems that panny will no longer offer TVs under 50"? Seems like LCD will be the only option there.

On the plus side, WOW did Panasonic actually just get their heads out of their arses and produce a sexy TV?
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post #246 of 268 Old 01-10-2012, 12:26 PM
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Are there any 22" - 27" inch Glassless 3D Monitors featured on CES to come to market soon at affordable prices??
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post #247 of 268 Old 01-10-2012, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Do-It-Yourself View Post

Really, what can you expect when the pinnacle of LCD technology is very much indeed existent since 2011. All they could do now is continue on from where they left off - VERSION 2.0. There's not much that can be added now, that is breath taking or 'breaking news'.

Pinnacle of LCD technology? Full array backlit LCDs seems like it would be breaking news to me. Just a couple of years ago it seemed like it would be the future but the industry did a 180°, not sure what happened there. I dare say keep your gimmicky 3D and 1' thick bezels and give me my Full array backlit TVs with better PQ! It seems like the lack of innovation is not for the lack of technology but the lack of effort. I'd be curious to know just how much more either in dollars or percentage would Full LEDS cost to manufacture over traditional CCFL and Edgle-lit sets? Anybody know?

Also, was holding off buying a samsung D6000 to hear if the uniformity issues might have ameliorated in this years' E series. Any info in that regard?
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post #248 of 268 Old 01-10-2012, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson777 View Post

Pinnacle of LCD technology? Full array backlit LCDs seems like it would be breaking news to me. Just a couple of years ago it seemed like it would be the future but the industry did a 180°, not sure what happened there. I dare say keep your gimmicky 3D and 1' thick bezels and give me my Full array backlit TVs with better PQ! It seems like the lack of innovation is not for the lack of technology but the lack of effort. I'd be curious to know just how much more either in dollars or percentage would Full LEDS cost to manufacture over traditional CCFL and Edgle-lit sets? Anybody know?

Also, was holding off buying a samsung D6000 to hear if the uniformity issues might have ameliorated in this years' E series. Any info in that regard?

Their in the business of making money, edge led TVs provide PQ that is good enough for the average consumer. Full led TVs cost more to manufacture, sell less then edge lit and have lower profit margin overall. Its still a niche highend market, even tho we know the benefits to full led people still buy edge lit more. Edge led TVs are about as good pq wise as they are going to get, so they've moved on to bringing new features to sell the TVs.
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post #249 of 268 Old 01-10-2012, 02:29 PM
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[quote=davyo;21470549]For the posters that wont buy a large Sharp panel because of your concern about motion blur,,,,, I have the 70" and plan on getting the 80" very soon.

Did you notice in the when CNET "backed off" of their claim that Sharp had two 80 inchers coming out that they listed the "better" set as having the 1080 x 4. They had the model number listed as well which makes me wonder if they are coming out with that set in a few months. I think so what about you. I admit that this may just be wishful thinking on my part but if you are not in a hurry to buy an 80 incher......
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post #250 of 268 Old 01-10-2012, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken711 View Post

Thanks. I guess I better consider the HX929 before they end production.

Grr, I'm in the same boat and I don't know what to do. I had the 46 inch on order on Cyber Monday and it was backordered so I canceled after 3 weeks because something came up, but I don't know what to do.
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post #251 of 268 Old 01-10-2012, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davyo View Post

For the posters that wont buy a large Sharp panel because of your concern about motion blur,,,,, I have the 70" and plan on getting the 80" very soon.

"ANY" motion blur I have seen (which is almost none) is a very small trade off for the enjoyment I get watching a 70 " and soon to be 80" picture.

I'll take a little motion blur any day of the week on a 80 inch panel rather than watching a tiny 55" or 60" picture.

Cheers
Davyo

Hi, not all of us want anything much above 60".

70" would be my absolute max, I can't see ever going to a room domineering 80"+.

In my opinion motion blur is the #1 death knell to overall PQ. I'm upset that RPTV DLP is nearing the end. I'll take a rainbow here and there with a little SSE any day over LCD stuck pixels, blurring and ghosting.

I'm a big console and PC gamer. No other display tech (besides CRT) comes close to the perfectly crisp lifelike motion of DLP. I could even see smearing on my old 2.5ms pixel response SXRD.
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post #252 of 268 Old 01-10-2012, 06:21 PM
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Sony's crystal LED sounds interesting-- an almost-OLED screen
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post #253 of 268 Old 01-10-2012, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

Sony's crystal LED sounds interesting-- an almost-OLED screen

but we might not see that until a few years down the road...
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post #254 of 268 Old 01-10-2012, 11:49 PM
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The Sony crystal is a prototype, and unfortunately yet have no idea when it might come to market(can't wait that long)
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post #255 of 268 Old 01-11-2012, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feddie View Post

Why are all the companies going edge lit? I get it is cheaper, but no other options?

Four reasons:

1) The sets can be made thinner, which is being used as a marketing tool, however irrelevant it actually is.

2) Cost.

3) Cost.

4) Cost.

Someone below correctly noted the picture quality is "good enough" for most people, which I also agree is very correct. But that's not actually motivating the decision; it's more confirming it's a correct one given the reasons listed above.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #256 of 268 Old 01-11-2012, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KewlK View Post

Hi, not all of us want anything much above 60".

70" would be my absolute max, I can't see ever going to a room domineering 80"+.

In my opinion motion blur is the #1 death knell to overall PQ. I'm upset that RPTV DLP is nearing the end. I'll take a rainbow here and there with a little SSE any day over LCD stuck pixels, blurring and ghosting.

I'm a big console and PC gamer. No other display tech (besides CRT) comes close to the perfectly crisp lifelike motion of DLP. I could even see smearing on my old 2.5ms pixel response SXRD.

Many are buying the 70-80" are previous RPTV owners wanting bigger and better yet - Sharp will own this segment and if you bother to go view the 80" Owner feedback over on Amazon virtually every owner has rated it as a 5 star out of five.

Motion Blur is friggin rare and so rare as not to be a concern to the vast consumer audience and improving all the time and your perhaps the first person I've ever heard that would choose seeing RBE - most cannot tolerate it or own DLP if they see it as it simply rarely goes away for those folks.

I'm sorry your painting this picture of LCD is BS and if your points were factual DLP and RPTV would not be a dead dinosaur it has become today. I own five LCD TV's in my home and well over a dozen on my network and have never had a stuck or dead pixel on any - on rare occasions (more like 1%) I have them on the cheap $110 LCD Monitors on my network of which I have over 600 but we're talking apples and oranges between a PC LCD Monitor and higher end LCD TV's.

I challenge you to go to Amazon and read the actual reviews of the 80" Sharp - they are some of the best owner reviews I've ever seen and it's their budget model without the Quatrron and 3D. Or read Pro Calibrator CHADB's report on it http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=21074429. Dayyo has pretty much owned nearly every large plasma and LCD and I trust his feedback over the years since he's HT obsessed with garnering IMMERSION! For those that don't care about HT IMMERSION your choices remain vast in nearly every brand but for now Sharp will own the 60-80" segment for obvious reasons - no one else owns a plant that can match what Saiki can produce - Sharp spent 5.5 billion to garner that advantage which seems to be paying off for now and China wants an identical plant built by Sharp but so far is limiting China to an 8G plant and refusing to build a duplicate of Saiki otherwise they'd be canabalizing their own production if they handed off an XGEN plant to China.

No one is forcing anyone to buy an 80" but there is proving to be a consumer market, while 70" may be my limit in my room I'm considering placing an 80" in the basement if I choose to finish it this spring as it would be perfect in that space and to be honest my biggest disappointment with my 60" D8000 is that it seems so small as I went from a 57" massive Sharp to this thin form factor and even though it's 3" bigger I actually lost some of its' immersion factor and the big disappointment is the friggin edge lit light bleed and poor uniformity with the lights out - daytime viewing can be excellent but in the dark of night a Sharp Elite will blow edge lit out of the water but at a hefty price tag for now.

Looks like Sharp is going to own this HT Size Segment and OLED is likely going to be too costly for most consumers initially otherwise they would not be hiding the MSRP's and they "Talk" of an 84" at LG but we've heard that fairy tale before with their 72" for two years running at CES that never made it's way to N. America. What your doing is cherry picking feedback to paint a picture that suits your opinion but I challenge you to go read the owner reviews at Amazon on the Sharps (many of which are previous RPTV Owners) - they do not match your representation and your cherry picking the OCD unhappy from this forum that report over and over again the same issues and ignore the vast majority of happy owners simply sitting on their HT arses enjoying and not reporting!

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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post #257 of 268 Old 01-11-2012, 06:10 AM
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Any chance of a full array local dimmer in 60" that isn't a Sharp elite for 2012? I was hoping Sony would add a size to the 929 line. I also heard two months ago that Panasonic was going to offer a real local dimming led option.
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post #258 of 268 Old 01-11-2012, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

Many are buying the 70-80" are previous RPTV owners wanting bigger and better yet - Sharp will own this segment and if you bother to go view the 80" Owner feedback over on Amazon virtually every owner has rated it as a 5 star out of five.

Motion Blur is friggin rare and so rare as not to be a concern to the vast consumer audience and improving all the time and your perhaps the first person I've ever heard that would choose seeing RBE - most cannot tolerate it or own DLP if they see it as it simply rarely goes away for those folks.

I'm sorry your painting this picture of LCD is BS and if your points were factual DLP and RPTV would not be a dead dinosaur it has become today. I own five LCD TV's in my home and well over a dozen on my network and have never had a stuck or dead pixel on any - on rare occasions (more like 1%) I have them on the cheap $110 LCD Monitors on my network of which I have over 600 but we're talking apples and oranges between a PC LCD Monitor and higher end LCD TV's.

I challenge you to go to Amazon and read the actual reviews of the 80" Sharp - they are some of the best owner reviews I've ever seen and it's their budget model without the Quatrron and 3D. Or read Pro Calibrator CHADB's report on it http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=21074429. Dayyo has pretty much owned nearly every large plasma and LCD and I trust his feedback over the years since he's HT obsessed with garnering IMMERSION! For those that don't care about HT IMMERSION your choices remain vast in nearly every brand but for now Sharp will own the 60-80" segment for obvious reasons - no one else owns a plant that can match what Saiki can produce - Sharp spent 5.5 billion to garner that advantage which seems to be paying off for now and China wants an identical plant built by Sharp but so far is limiting China to an 8G plant and refusing to build a duplicate of Saiki otherwise they'd be canabalizing their own production if they handed off an XGEN plant to China.

No one is forcing anyone to buy an 80" but there is proving to be a consumer market, while 70" may be my limit in my room I'm considering placing an 80" in the basement if I choose to finish it this spring as it would be perfect in that space and to be honest my biggest disappointment with my 60" D8000 is that it seems so small as I went from a 57" massive Sharp to this thin form factor and even though it's 3" bigger I actually lost some of its' immersion factor and the big disappointment is the friggin edge lit light bleed and poor uniformity with the lights out - daytime viewing can be excellent but in the dark of night a Sharp Elite will blow edge lit out of the water but at a hefty price tag for now.

Looks like Sharp is going to own this HT Size Segment and OLED is likely going to be too costly for most consumers initially otherwise they would not be hiding the MSRP's and they "Talk" of an 84" at LG but we've heard that fairy tale before with their 72" for two years running at CES that never made it's way to N. America. What your doing is cherry picking feedback to paint a picture that suits your opinion but I challenge you to go read the owner reviews at Amazon on the Sharps (many of which are previous RPTV Owners) - they do not match your representation and your cherry picking the OCD unhappy from this forum that report over and over again the same issues and ignore the vast majority of happy owners simply sitting on their HT arses enjoying and not reporting!

Good post...and why the HELL am I getting the itch for the 80-incher, after just getting the 70" the day before Thanksgiving!!!
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post #259 of 268 Old 01-11-2012, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

Davyo has pretty much owned nearly every large plasma and LCD and I trust his feedback over the years since he's HT obsessed with garnering IMMERSION!

Agreed Westa,,, I do like the immersion and I am obsessed with buying large TV's,,, help is being sought

My current 70" Sharp makes me very happy,,,, no motion blur to even bother a mention and no burned pixels,,, just an amazing picture that is huge !!!

The only thing Im not happy about with my 70 incher is it is not a 80 or 90 incher.

No TV is perfect but the Sharp 70 incher is a GREAT TV,,, best money I EVER spent on any TV,,,, not one regret at all.

Right now Im really kickin around buying the current 80 incher or waiting for the new 80 incher or the 90" Sharp.

To wait or not on the upgrade,,, thats the question thats keeping me up at night right now.

One thing I do know for sure is after seeing the 70" and the 80" right next to each other I knew I had to go bigger,, the 70 incher looked like a postage stamp sitting next to the 80 incher,,,, and dare I say I think the 80 incher even had a better looking picture.

Cheers
Davyo
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post #260 of 268 Old 01-11-2012, 08:07 AM
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(owner of Mits 73736 looking to get new sharp in April/Summer).

While I have been a HUGE fan of DLP for price/size/picture since 2005 (HP first 1080p set!), people seem to forget.
1. Bulbs decrease over time/burn ruining calibration
2. Convergence issues at edges
3. Overscan (yes, I can make my custom resolution 1026x1016 to avoid overscan) but this does NOT work with PS3/XBOX360
4. Black levels are no where near that of a calibrated LED backlit array..... just not.
5. Works great in the dark - I have a dedicated room so that is fine.
6. Off axis viewing (when close THX distance 1.0:1.0) means you NEED to be CENTERED
7. 3D is HORRIBLE (especially on older sets). The "wobultion) argument for most things is meaningless - but the 720p/NVIDIA GTX580 output/resolution looks total crap due to the "conversion" to checkerboard (cutting horisontilal resolution in 1/2). Not to mention the verical blanking issue... arg.
8. Again, wtih 3D, NVIDIA or ATI will not allow non HDCP complaint resoltions - thus you KEEP HAVING OVERSCAN. Annoying for games. Annoying for blu-ray
9. Again, SSE is evident in a propoerally calibrated set .... the new 2011 mits are ALOT better at this

So as a fan of DLP and the idea, the attractiveness of
1. Perfect geometry
2. wide viewing angles
3. Good 3D
4. Better black
5. Brighter

Works when one needs a HTPC/Gaming center.

Again, for people watching crappy netflix 720p low-bit rate - whatever. But people here usually choose the features tech they want. I can live with occasional "blur" and increased lag (btw the MITS due to the geometry processing due to poor lenses is NOT 0ms!) for a local dimming 70" where I can see ever single pixel (summer 2012 I hope).

sjc
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post #261 of 268 Old 01-11-2012, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 View Post

Any chance of a full array local dimmer in 60" that isn't a Sharp elite for 2012? I was hoping Sony would add a size to the 929 line. I also heard two months ago that Panasonic was going to offer a real local dimming led option.

There's an LG coming.

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-33379_1-573...-to-60-inches/
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post #262 of 268 Old 01-11-2012, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltaz View Post

Good post...and why the HELL am I getting the itch for the 80-incher, after just getting the 70" the day before Thanksgiving!!!

My thoughts exactly, I'm already planning on giving my 70" to the kids. I was really hoping this week to see some nice PR shots of the Sharp 90" at CES. The new 80" Quattron (844 model) sounds intriguing, but I believe the 90" would satisfy my big TV craving (unless they can eventually make a "crystal LED" equivalent?), which began with the purchase of my first "big" screen 40" Mitsubishi RP back in 1984. The amazing thing is that the 70" Sharp I bought last October cost less, and that isn't adjusted for inflation. The people who complain about the prices on these models need to look back, and not too far. Last year at this time the only available 70" LCD flat panel would have cost you $22,000. Now you can get ten LED's at that price, or about five 80"!
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post #263 of 268 Old 01-11-2012, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 View Post

Any chance of a full array local dimmer in 60" that isn't a Sharp elite for 2012? I was hoping Sony would add a size to the 929 line. I also heard two months ago that Panasonic was going to offer a real local dimming led option.

Sharp is bringing this tech to their non-Elite line-up. Check out the "9 Series" here:

Sharp Press Release
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post #264 of 268 Old 01-11-2012, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rohrbaughra View Post

The amazing thing is that the 70" Sharp I bought last October cost less, and that isn't adjusted for inflation. The people who complain about the prices on these models need to look back, and not too far. Last year at this time the only available 70" LCD flat panel would have cost you $22,000. Now you can get ten LED's at that price, or about five 80"!

So true. I give Sharp a lot of credit for what they are doing. It would have been unbelievable a couple of years ago.
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post #265 of 268 Old 01-11-2012, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post

Sharp is bringing this tech to their non-Elite line-up. Check out the "9 Series" here:

Sharp Press Release

Oh wow
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post #266 of 268 Old 01-11-2012, 03:57 PM
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Wow CES 2012 is 2 days stale and I have lost track of all the new sets. Any chance someone will post info on the site with everything TV from CES 2012?

When it ends and the gang is back from the parties perhaps?

Cheers.

Think a new TV is on my Horizon finally.
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post #267 of 268 Old 01-11-2012, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Samsung 55" OLED:

http://flatpanelshd.com/news.php?sub...&id=1326303801

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1326148356

"Samsung’s 55-inch OLED-TV will be available in the second half of 2012"
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post #268 of 268 Old 01-11-2012, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post

Samsung 55" OLED:

http://flatpanelshd.com/news.php?sub...&id=1326303801

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1326148356

"Samsung's 55-inch OLED-TV will be available in the second half of 2012"

The future is very close, its going to be exciting.
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