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post #1 of 268 Old 10-19-2011, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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So it's only about 2-3 months until the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) where most new TV models for 2012 will be presented. Exciting!

What are your expectations for the 2012 models? What new features and picture improvements do you think we will see?

My guesses:

* 4k resolution (3840 x 2160)
* TV:s that can record to a USB disk while allowing you to watch another channel (today you can only watch the channel being recorded)
* 3D TVs which do not require 3D glasses
* LED backlit TVs with more local dimming zones
* OLED TVs reaching up to ?? inches in size

Do you agree? And do you predict any other new improvements?

Please share your opinions!
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post #2 of 268 Old 10-19-2011, 03:05 PM
 
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On current tvs does it still depend on model whether you can record onto the USB? I've seen before people say that you can do it, but I haven't noticed any obvious mention of it on any of the tvs I've tried. I assume just hacving a usb port isn't enough because I don't see any button or feature list mentioning it.

As for the other, I see everyone mentioning the 4k resolution a lot and if that is true I hope it costs a ton where I won't regret buying a tv at this time.
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post #3 of 268 Old 10-19-2011, 04:30 PM
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^^^In Europe it's common to be able to record directly from the tv to an external hard drive or USB stick, but it's illegal in the US due to copyright law.

A 4k display strikes me as being ideal for your particular needs but I doubt if it will appear at a screen size or price you can use.

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post #4 of 268 Old 10-19-2011, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post

So it's only about 2-3 months until the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) where most new TV models for 2012 will be presented. Exciting!

What are your expectations for the 2012 models? What new features and picture improvements do you think we will see?

My guesses:

* 4k resolution (3840 x 2160)
* TV:s that can record to a USB disk while allowing you to watch another channel (today you can only watch the channel being recorded)
* 3D TVs which do not require 3D glasses
* LED backlit TVs with more local dimming zones
* OLED TVs reaching up to ?? inches in size

Do you agree? And do you predict any other new improvements?

Please share your opinions!

I'm hoping to see some incremental improvements to Sony's 929. Added LED zones and a lower minimum lume before the LED's shut off.

I'm also hoping we'll see efficiency gains in plasma power consumption as well as better black levels.
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post #5 of 268 Old 10-21-2011, 12:41 AM
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We can expect first 4K LCD-TV´s, more inch (more 70", 80" from Sharp) and the first LCD-TV´s with OLED-Backlight from LG and Samsung.

http://translate.google.de/translate...3D201109160141

http://www.oled.at/samsung-mobile-di...ed-tv-geraete/
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post #6 of 268 Old 10-21-2011, 10:46 PM
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TVs announced by Samsung and LG that will never ship.

Bigger Panasonic plasmas.

Uninteresting or really expensive glasses-free 3D-TVs.

Passive, full-res 3D-TVs.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #7 of 268 Old 10-22-2011, 04:07 AM
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I'm hoping for 4k lite enabled tv's and for a 90" lcd tv to be announced at a price point below 8k.
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post #8 of 268 Old 10-22-2011, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Passive, full-res 3D-TVs.

What technology (s) do you expect the full resolution 3D-TVs to use?
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post #9 of 268 Old 10-22-2011, 07:48 AM
 
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There will probably be more OLED vaporware, some more carbon Nano tube prototypes, and more 4K and glasses free 3D consumer available sets like the Toshiba ZL2 below. I want 80", 4K rez up converting, glasses free 3D set for under $4K before I buy my next set.


http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetrevi...h-screen/27321

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRGL-IbDZ9Q
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post #10 of 268 Old 10-22-2011, 08:02 AM
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-Marketed huge improvements that turn out to be incremental
-OLED displays that never go into production
-at least an even split of passive 3D vs active
-TCP/IP control on everything with slicker menus and more robust control
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post #11 of 268 Old 10-22-2011, 11:54 AM
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Wow 2012 the year of the 4K LCD and projector!!!! I was hoping to see a super wide display scope format before 4K but I guess that's not in the cards anymore.
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post #12 of 268 Old 10-22-2011, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Bigger Panasonic plasmas.

Hope that includes some 100" plasmas for under $10k. I'd happily take that in one of those Sharp Elite LCDs too.
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post #13 of 268 Old 10-22-2011, 07:15 PM
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If the 85" Panasonic Plasma(TH-85VX200) Cost $30k, weighs 270lbs, and consumes 1400W of power, what makes you think they can magically, produce a 100" Plasma for $10k, I doubt you can even sell a consumer T.V. in California & Canada, that sucks up that much electricity, Panasonic is going to have to come up with a lot of innovations it the next 2 months to reach that threshold. I could have sworn a few years ago, most of the Flat Panel industry analysis, concluded Plasma would always be cheaper to produce and be more profitable at larger sizes than LCD(50">)and how come Samsung & LG cant mass produce and actually sell large sizes like Sharp, there are after all the Industry leaders in Flat Panel sales, why is Sharp the only ones capable of going Big.
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post #14 of 268 Old 10-22-2011, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Nujacc View Post

If the 85" Panasonic Plasma(TH-85VX200) Cost $30k, weighs 270lbs, and consumes 1400W of power, what makes you think they can magically, produce a 100" Plasma for $10k, I doubt you can even sell a consumer T.V. in California & Canada, that sucks up that much electricity, Panasonic is going to have to come up with a lot of innovations it the next 2 months to reach that threshold. I could have sworn a few years ago, most of the Flat Panel industry analysis, concluded Plasma would always be cheaper to produce and be more profitable at larger sizes than LCD(50">)and how come Samsung & LG cant mass produce and actually sell large sizes like Sharp, there are after all the Industry leaders in Flat Panel sales, why is Sharp the only ones capable of going Big.

You make me sad. How about a 120" plasma for 30k? I'd take that too.
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post #15 of 268 Old 10-22-2011, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by walford View Post

What technology (s) do you expect the full resolution 3D-TVs to use?

The one shown off by RealD and Samsung.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #16 of 268 Old 10-22-2011, 09:11 PM
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Moderate improvements to led/plasma PQ, lots more internet integration, 3d more widespread, and vaporware.
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post #17 of 268 Old 10-23-2011, 01:08 AM - Thread Starter
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What about LCD panels with better contrast, black levels, uniformity and viewing angles? Has anyone heard anything about such improvements coming in 2012?
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post #18 of 268 Old 10-23-2011, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post

What about LCD panels with better contrast, black levels, uniformity and viewing angles? Has anyone heard anything about such improvements coming in 2012?

Panasonic is going to build LCD's up to 60 inches in size as I understand it. Maybe they'll have something with full array local dimming?
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post #19 of 268 Old 10-23-2011, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjodor2000; View Post

What about LCD panels with better contrast, black levels, uniformity and viewing angles? Has anyone heard anything about such improvements coming in 2012?

The Elite Pro has better contrast, black levels, uniformity and viewing angles. Will take a year till Plasma/LCd Manufacturers will response(lets just hope they do!).
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post #20 of 268 Old 10-23-2011, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by vilfrard View Post

I'm hoping for 4k lite enabled tv's and for a 90" lcd tv to be announced at a price point below 8k.


Rumor has it that Sharp is releasing a 92" LED TV at the end of the year or the first quarter of next year. I read this in a couple of threads.

My wish list is for Sharp to release a better version of their current 80" and equip it with 240 hz or more, Quattron, and with 3D. I'd love one by Superbowl time!
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post #21 of 268 Old 10-23-2011, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

The Elite Pro has better contrast, black levels, uniformity and viewing angles. Will take a year till Plasma/LCd Manufacturers will response(lets just hope they do!).

Or they wont. Your talking a price point that is 30 to 50% higher then anything Sony and Samsung currently offer. They may decide to let Elite live up there in the stratosphere and continue to improve their current products year over year. The 929 is a fantastic set, is the Elite worth twice as much? My guess is even to videophile's like us we'd say probably not in most cases. Obviously, some will feel it is worth it, but I can buy a TV now and another set in five years for what the Elite cost today.

I also think we'll continue to see downward price pressure on all these sets and the 929 may well be around the 2k to 2.2k street price by early next year.
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post #22 of 268 Old 10-23-2011, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95; View Post

Or they wont. Your talking a price point that is 30 to 50% higher then anything Sony and Samsung currently offer. They may decide to let Elite live up there in the stratosphere and continue to improve their current products year over year. The 929 is a fantastic set, is the Elite worth twice as much? My guess is even to videophile's like us we'd say probably not in most cases. Obviously, some will feel it is worth it, but I can buy a TV now and another set in five years for what the Elite cost today.

I also think we'll continue to see downward price pressure on all these sets and the 929 may well be around the 2k to 2.2k street price by early next year.

Several reviewers noticed blooming/haloing and poor off angle performance. I own a xbr8, maybee i will buy another Local Dimming but it will not be a blooming/haloing poor off angle performance one like the HX929. I do most of my TV watching in the dark so the blooming/haloing poor off angle performance thing is more noticeable/anoying, for someone like me the Elite Pro would be the better choice( two problems: i do not want a yellow subpixel LCd, I like the Sony approach).
Sony needs to do better. Maybee the Elite Pro is the kick in the back.

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post #23 of 268 Old 10-23-2011, 08:54 AM
 
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Originally Posted by malichai View Post

Hope that includes some 100" plasmas for under $10k. I'd happily take that in one of those Sharp Elite LCDs too.

Well, I have bad news for you. Looks like plasmas are on their way out. Sharp has raised the bar with their Elite line and LCDs are starting to put pricing pressure on the plasmas. Combine that with the Energy Star requirement hurting plasma in the larger sizes, I think plasmas might only have another 2-3 years left.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...79I8A420111020
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post #24 of 268 Old 10-23-2011, 09:42 AM
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So many talk about large screen OLEDs as the holy grail. Yet nobody has seen one, nobody knows what the actual PQ will be, nobody knows what the price will be, nobody knows when one will ship and nobody knows if the first large screen units will have longevity issues.

It's almost funny how many years we've read about the 'around the corner' OLEDs.

Hey, I had an OLED on my Samsung Charge. Great blacks, incredibly poppy and inaccurate colors that everyone was wowed by. Watching a show, although small, was 'fun', but you'd have to be blind to not see how inaccurate the colors were...and much too saturated.

So put me in the column that believes a large screen OLED display does not imply a hands-down best display.
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post #25 of 268 Old 10-23-2011, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by sintech View Post

Well, I have bad news for you. Looks like plasmas are on their way out. Sharp has raised the bar with their Elite line and LCDs are starting to put pricing pressure on the plasmas. Combine that with the Energy Star requirement hurting plasma in the larger sizes, I think plasmas might only have another 2-3 years left.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...79I8A420111020

Wow, that's pretty surprising. Samsung has definitely got the plasma sales locked up if Panasonic slowly leaves the market, which it seems like they're going to. I guess there should be no expectation for Panasonic at CES 2012.
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post #26 of 268 Old 10-23-2011, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

Several reviewers noticed blooming/haloing and poor off angle performance. I own a xbr8, maybee i will buy another Local Dimming but it will not be a blooming/haloing poor off angle performance one like the HX929. I do most of my TV watching in the dark so the blooming/haloing poor off angle performance thing is more noticeable/anoying, for someone like me the Elite Pro would be the better choice( two problems: i do not want a yellow subpixel LCd, I like the Sony approach).
Sony needs to do better. Maybee the Elite Pro is the kick in the back.

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Chad B http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1891

blooming is not that bad... maybe if you like to watch white credits or pause menu's all day or if you like to sit 30 degrees or more off axis then it might be an issue.... you might want to try plasma if you like to watch tv 45 degrees off axis......

Sony could make a tv with more dimming zones and not shut them totally off..... and id bet it would give the elite a run for its money .... but sony is not in the position to start making higher end tvs than the hx929 it would cost them lots of money in the short term and they are trying rebound in the tv business so probably a bad move for sony to make a 6k 55" right now
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post #27 of 268 Old 10-23-2011, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sintech View Post

Well, I have bad news for you. Looks like plasmas are on their way out. Sharp has raised the bar with their Elite line and LCDs are starting to put pricing pressure on the plasmas. Combine that with the Energy Star requirement hurting plasma in the larger sizes, I think plasmas might only have another 2-3 years left.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...79I8A420111020

Which Plasma models are you referring to with Energy Star 4 problems?
See the ES 4 values in the following link.

http://downloads.energystar.gov/bi/q..._prod_list.pdf
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post #28 of 268 Old 10-23-2011, 12:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by walford View Post

Which Plasma models are you referring to with Energy Star 4 problems?
See the ES 4 values in the following link.

http://downloads.energystar.gov/bi/q..._prod_list.pdf

Largest on that list I could find was the panny 50" at around 100W, but I think the 85" was around 1200W. California was supposed to be tightening its standards on energy consumption. Don't know how it all works, but a would guess the larger 60"-80" sizes would have real trouble meeting the guidelines in the future. I know the 50" panny I have can help warm the room on a summer day.
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post #29 of 268 Old 10-23-2011, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

The Elite Pro has better contrast, black levels, uniformity and viewing angles. Will take a year till Plasma/LCd Manufacturers will response(lets just hope they do!).

To echo this, the Elite has basically "finished" contrast as an area in near of improvement. It's done. Black levels are more or less done. Uniformity is borderline done. Viewing angles require using panel types like IPS. I doubt any home-theater-quality LCD TV is going to have a much better viewing angle in 2012 than the best have in 2011. And while I'd love to see a significant improvement here (say a 100% increase in the zero-dropoff-in-contrast cone, the current situation appears to be having no negative impact on LCD sales nor are mfrs. using this as a differentiator vs. other products -- at least in marketing materials).

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #30 of 268 Old 10-23-2011, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sintech View Post

Largest on that list I could find was the panny 50" at around 100W, but I think the 85" was around 1200W. California was supposed to be tightening its standards on energy consumption. Don't know how it all works, but a would guess the larger 60"-80" sizes would have real trouble meeting the guidelines in the future. I know the 50" panny I have can help warm the room on a summer day.


This was mentioned at the shootout. Plasma's are going to have to meet the tough new energy star requirements, which means they will have to keep their peak luminance down to do so. This means more R&D to find ways to keep the brightness high to compete with LCD's. LCD's will keep getting better blacks, in addition to already having high peak luminance, while the plasmas, unless they can make them more energy efficient will look less bright in comparison. It is going to be tough road for plasma's in the future, especially with Panasonic having trouble.

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