soap opera effect - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 28 Old 10-25-2011, 02:38 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Spidergames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I love it, I love it! And i dont understand why some others dont, i mean its makes a really bad looking blu ray movie, look really good... And believe me, there are many out there.... So whats up with all the hate on here... Is there others like me?
Spidergames is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 28 Old 10-25-2011, 06:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Steve S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fresno CA
Posts: 5,356
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Some love it, some hate it, neither can be persuaded to change their opinion. As long as it can be turned on or off and we have a choice in the matter all's well with the world.

Steve S.
Steve S is offline  
post #3 of 28 Old 10-25-2011, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Spidergames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Am just scared if sony and samsung and others, would start listening to those who dont like it, and start to remove it from all their new tvs..
Spidergames is online now  
post #4 of 28 Old 10-25-2011, 04:13 PM
Advanced Member
 
Do-It-Yourself's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: In a house far away from you creeps (hopefully)
Posts: 900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidergames View Post

Am just scared if sony and samsung and others, would start listening to those who dont like it, and start to remove it from all their new tvs..

Why would they when we already have the ability to turn off the feature.
Removing it is a downgrade to what is already a 'standard' feature.
Do-It-Yourself is offline  
post #5 of 28 Old 10-26-2011, 12:59 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Spidergames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I mean by removing the 120Hz feature or what have you. by also lowering the cost of the tv....... If all these people are not injoying the feature, why even included in the tv.. all you ever heard about in the shoutout, was how everyone in the room dislikes it... I clearly dont understand why, some one would hate a super clear picture, i mean why even buy a HD tv... I love the Soap opera effect.
Spidergames is online now  
post #6 of 28 Old 10-26-2011, 09:39 AM
Member
 
walshfever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidergames View Post

I mean by removing the 120Hz feature or what have you. by also lowering the cost of the tv....... If all these people are not injoying the feature, why even included in the tv.. all you ever heard about in the shoutout, was how everyone in the room dislikes it... I clearly dont understand why, some one would hate a super clear picture, i mean why even buy a HD tv... I love the Soap opera effect.

I love it too. I think it adds clarity and a sense of envelopment when you are watching a Bluray with it turned up. However, you have to find a fine line between the settings because max soap opera effect can create artifacts that can be distracting. I enjoy Samsung's 10 point implementation.
walshfever is offline  
post #7 of 28 Old 10-26-2011, 12:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
WaldorfSalad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nr. Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidergames View Post

I mean by removing the 120Hz feature or what have you. by also lowering the cost of the tv....... If all these people are not injoying the feature, why even included in the tv.. all you ever heard about in the shoutout, was how everyone in the room dislikes it... I clearly dont understand why, some one would hate a super clear picture, i mean why even buy a HD tv... I love the Soap opera effect.

120Hz is the native refresh rate of the LCD panel. It is independent of the settings that cause SOE. Bear in mind that the general public are oblivious (blissfully ignorant?) of refresh rates, SOE, etc. and will use the TV right out of the box with the default settings.
WaldorfSalad is offline  
post #8 of 28 Old 10-26-2011, 01:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Steve S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fresno CA
Posts: 5,356
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidergames View Post

I mean by removing the 120Hz feature or what have you. by also lowering the cost of the tv....... If all these people are not injoying the feature, why even included in the tv.. all you ever heard about in the shoutout, was how everyone in the room dislikes it... I clearly dont understand why, some one would hate a super clear picture, i mean why even buy a HD tv... I love the Soap opera effect.

If you're really worried maybe it would be a good idea for you to buy one or two spare sets with SOE capability and leave them in the box.

The sets in that shootout are specifically aimed at the kind of buyer who would be most likely to object to SOE, yet they all have the capability to produce the effect--that should tell you you're in no danger of losing anything.

The fact is that SOE is a by-product of frame interpolation which was originally intended to reduce loss of resolution during fast motion caused by the relatively slow pixel response time of lcd panels. Interpolation is therefore quite useful when watching sporting events and many "purists" who hate it when watching movies actually do appreciate it's benefits when watching sports.

Since the need for frame interpolation for reduction of motion blur during sports will not go away unless pixel response time on lcds can be reduced to plasma levels (Plasma=.001 ms, lcd=at best 4ms) I don't think the feature will go away any time soon.

Steve S.
Steve S is offline  
post #9 of 28 Old 10-26-2011, 01:40 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
walford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 16,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
AFIK LCDs need frame interpolation even for today's fast response time panels for fast action scenes since LCD technology is a show and hold technology.
Plasma sets on the other hand do not need frame interpolation since the images are only on the screen about 1/2 of the time and the human mind interpolates between the fast moving objects when no image is on the screen.
walford is offline  
post #10 of 28 Old 10-26-2011, 04:02 PM
Senior Member
 
ordo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 294
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

Some love it, some hate it, neither can be persuaded to change their opinion. As long as it can be turned on or off and we have a choice in the matter all's well with the world.

Recently went to two bb's both had Magnolia's in them. Both had the new 80 inch Sharp's on display showing blue ray movies. Told each salesman that the movies did not remind me of movies in a theater. Both said that this was the SOE. I had heard that this could be eliminated but both said that this could not be done. (although one salesman said it could be reduced) They added that it had nothing to do with this set but was indigenous to these types of sets. Recall reading somewhere on this forum that it could be eliminated somehow.

1. Which is correct.
2. If possible how is it done.
3. I have an upconverting dvd player (Toshiba xde500) that I will be using for my old dvd's. Can the SOE be eliminated for these as well with the same settings?

Thanks in advance...
ordo is offline  
post #11 of 28 Old 10-26-2011, 04:17 PM
Member
 
edogg_23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yes the sharp TVs let you disable it, Film mode is the feature that turns it on sharp tv's and it can be disabled.
edogg_23 is offline  
post #12 of 28 Old 10-27-2011, 01:33 PM
Senior Member
 
ordo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 294
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by edogg_23 View Post

Yes the sharp TVs let you disable it, Film mode is the feature that turns it on sharp tv's and it can be disabled.

Returned to Magnolia. Turned off the film mode. Reduced the effect some but DID NOT eliminate it.
ordo is offline  
post #13 of 28 Old 10-27-2011, 03:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dm145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 4,815
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 24
yeah, Sharp has the worst SOE i have ever seen
if you can notice it then they are doing a bad job of motion interpolation
dm145 is offline  
post #14 of 28 Old 10-28-2011, 06:29 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
walford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 16,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by dm145 View Post

yeah, Sharp has the worst SOE i have ever seen
if you can notice it then they are doing a bad job of motion interpolation

What do you mean by worst SOE, too smooth or not smooth at all when used insted of film/cinema mode to eliminate 3:2 frame rate conversion Judder instead?
walford is offline  
post #15 of 28 Old 10-28-2011, 06:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dm145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 4,815
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

What do you mean by worst SOE, too smooth or not smooth at all when used insted of film/cinema mode to eliminate 3:2 frame rate conversion Judder instead?

exaggerated
unnatural
dm145 is offline  
post #16 of 28 Old 10-28-2011, 09:30 AM
Member
 
edogg_23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well I have an 835 series when i turn off film mode it gets rid of it for me. There is another setting for off 120 low 120 high 240hz but that does not do any dejuddering which is what is the main culperate of the SOE. I watch my tv in 240 with Film mode off and it looks like watching a normal tv to me.
edogg_23 is offline  
post #17 of 28 Old 08-01-2012, 07:35 AM
Member
 
b5fan001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidergames View Post

I love it, I love it! And i dont understand why some others dont, i mean its makes a really bad looking blu ray movie, look really good... And believe me, there are many out there.... So whats up with all the hate on here... Is there others like me?

Hello,

I LOVE IT, TOO!!

http://www.studiodaily.com/2012/04/the-hobbit-the-soap-opera-effect-and-the-48fps-and-faster-future-of-movies/
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/337506/20120504/hdtv-hd-frame-rate-soap-opera-effect.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_interpolation
http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2012/04/the-hobbit-debuted-some-footage-in-48-fps-and-everyone-hated-it



I beg to differ with those that believe that the picture you see when Motion Interpolation raises the frame rate of the HD content displayed.



After doing some reading, I have come to the conclusion that Motion Interpolation isn't the problem. It is how 48 fps (or more) looks to you. The fact is that the TV and the film industry have the ability to create content a much higher frame rates than before and the new HDTVs have the ability to deliver a near real picture. Film is produced at amuch lower frame rate. New digital technology will replace film as we know it and deliver the incredible clarity & brilliance of HD it all its glory.

The soap opera effect is not a degradation of the picture. It is part of a movement to improve display technology. People used "line-doublers" in the old days to improve 480i displays.

HDTVs are simply fixing a problem with the display when motion interpolation is employed. That fix actually improves the picture. It mimics the coming look of newer HD presentations.

This is an important subject that must be explored, rather than dismissed. I believe that when some folks learn about the real future of higher frames per-second TV and cinema, they will accept that the picture is actually an improvement. The picture isn't being cheapened as some seem to think. As frame rates go up, the more "real" the picture will look.


Thanks for listening with an open mind,
-Will
b5fan001 is offline  
post #18 of 28 Old 11-01-2012, 06:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mr266's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,213
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 616
Hello everyone. As a newbie, I've had a heck of a time understanding what SOE is. Yesterday, I was looking at TV's over at Costco and they had a Samsung playing with a blu ray copy of The Avengers. This thing looked like I was looking a a video tape I just took of people I knew. Very striking, clear and lifelike without the look of a film. Is this what SOE is? If so, I may kinda like it. I also saw this movie a couple of weeks ago on HD on demand and it looked great on my current set but did look like a film.

WDTV Live SMP with 5TB HDD & KDLINKS 3.0 5Gbps 7 Ports Hub
Polk RTI8 Front, Polk CSI5 Center, Polk RTI4 Surround
MTX SW2 12” SUB
Sharp AQUOS LC-70C6400U
URC-WR7 Universal Remote
Motorola QIP7232 (P2) FIOS DVR
Sony BDP-S590 Blu Ray Player
Panasonic SA-HE100 AVR
Technics SL-B20 Turntable
mr266 is online now  
post #19 of 28 Old 11-01-2012, 06:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
greeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 2,597
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 19
yep you got it. if you ever watch a daytime soap opera, you'll see it. not on them all, but some of the "cheesier"ones.
greeno is offline  
post #20 of 28 Old 11-01-2012, 07:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mr266's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,213
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 616
Interesting. I think it would be cool on certain movies, or at least on certain new movies. Not sure I would like it on older movies I was used to seeing as "film". Either way, I can see where some would like it and some would not, and it's probably a good thing that it can be turned on or off as desired. Thanks.

WDTV Live SMP with 5TB HDD & KDLINKS 3.0 5Gbps 7 Ports Hub
Polk RTI8 Front, Polk CSI5 Center, Polk RTI4 Surround
MTX SW2 12” SUB
Sharp AQUOS LC-70C6400U
URC-WR7 Universal Remote
Motorola QIP7232 (P2) FIOS DVR
Sony BDP-S590 Blu Ray Player
Panasonic SA-HE100 AVR
Technics SL-B20 Turntable
mr266 is online now  
post #21 of 28 Old 11-01-2012, 07:42 AM
Advanced Member
 
sytech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 114
I usually only use it on sporting events with fast motion. When I want to see thing more clearly than humanly possible. I think it makes movies look to fake and takes you out of the moment. Wave your arm really fast in front of your face. You see blur, not perfectly smooth motion. That is reality. I think Hollywood is really going to have a problem with these higher frame rates and now 4K resolution at home.
sytech is online now  
post #22 of 28 Old 11-01-2012, 11:06 AM
Member
 
CaneDawgg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I love the SOE! Love it... I like the smoothest motion possible. I don't see jutter in real life so I'd prefer not see it on TV. Real life is around 100 FPS so I'd prefer to see the same on TV. Give me the clear, fluid, life-like movement... not antiquated jutter/blurriness shot with old technology.
CaneDawgg is offline  
post #23 of 28 Old 06-05-2013, 08:53 PM
Newbie
 
Chris1126's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi I'm really new here like 2 min new hahaha
I am a fan of soap opera effect only thing is I have no idea how to get it my grandmothers TV has it but mine doesn't I have a (LG 55LD520) it's a 55 inch with 120hz if anyone can help it would be much appreciated
Chris1126 is offline  
post #24 of 28 Old 06-06-2013, 01:42 AM
Senior Member
 
1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaneDawgg View Post

I love the SOE! Love it... I like the smoothest motion possible. I don't see jutter in real life so I'd prefer not see it on TV. Real life is around 100 FPS so I'd prefer to see the same on TV. Give me the clear, fluid, life-like movement... not antiquated jutter/blurriness shot with old technology.

Real life is 100fps ? Lol where did you come up with that little gem ?

1000
1000 is offline  
post #25 of 28 Old 06-06-2013, 06:38 AM
Advanced Member
 
johnfull's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 794
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked: 51
'Persistence of vision' studies, would be my guess...
johnfull is offline  
post #26 of 28 Old 06-06-2013, 08:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Otto Pylot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 7,077
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1126 View Post

Hi I'm really new here like 2 min new hahaha
I am a fan of soap opera effect only thing is I have no idea how to get it my grandmothers TV has it but mine doesn't I have a (LG 55LD520) it's a 55 inch with 120hz if anyone can help it would be much appreciated

If you have an LG 55LD520 you have TruMotion, which is LGs terminology for motion interpolation. You can control the amount of motion interpolation (which results in the Soap Opera Effect, SOE) by turning it on/off, using the Lo, Med, High defaults, or adjusting judder and blur to suit your tastes. Different mfrs call it something else with varying results.
Otto Pylot is offline  
post #27 of 28 Old 06-06-2013, 08:28 AM
Newbie
 
Chris1126's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

If you have an LG 55LD520 you have TruMotion, which is LGs terminology for motion interpolation. You can control the amount of motion interpolation (which results in the Soap Opera Effect, SOE) by turning it on/off, using the Lo, Med, High defaults, or adjusting judder and blur to suit your tastes. Different mfrs call it something else with varying results.

Well I'm here messing with it but can't get the results still can't get the SOE I have judder and blur at 10
Chris1126 is offline  
post #28 of 28 Old 06-06-2013, 11:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Otto Pylot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 7,077
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 228
When I've used it on my LG, it's been with one of the pre-sets and for network tv only. I never use if for blu-ray/DVD movies. It depends on how sensitive you are to the effect. I sometimes have a hard time noticing it but my son can tell the difference right away. You need to let your eyes adjust to it because it takes some people longer than others to process it. Some mfrs do a better job of it than others (how ever you want to interpret that).
Otto Pylot is offline  
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off