Official Sharp 2011 LC-70LE632U Owner's Thread - Page 27 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #781 of 1496 Old 02-12-2012, 08:50 AM
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oops... never mind.
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post #782 of 1496 Old 02-12-2012, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltaz View Post

You got me...

I went back to my posted settings. Yours left my picture looking very washed out, drained of color, and dim. The "reds" were definitely leached out, and everything seemed more bluish/greyish...

(snip)

Waltaz, would you mind re-posting them?

Jason, yes, your settings are definitely better than when I first set up the set with my initial settings, however, the now seem just a tad washed out, and more reddish than acceptable (especially on skin tones).

My firmware is the latest, but can't find where the build date is.

Thanks.

--Tom
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post #783 of 1496 Old 02-12-2012, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdoefx View Post

Waltaz, would you mind re-posting them?

Post #418...linked on previous page.
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post #784 of 1496 Old 02-12-2012, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdoefx View Post

Waltaz, would you mind re-posting them?

Jason, yes, your settings are definitely better than when I first set up the set with my initial settings, however, the now seem just a tad washed out, and more reddish than acceptable (especially on skin tones).

My firmware is the latest, but can't find where the build date is.

Thanks.

--Tom


Build date is on the box.
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post #785 of 1496 Old 02-12-2012, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltaz View Post

Post #418...linked on previous page.

Thanks! Btw, your posting indicates +7 for color... are you sure that's not -7? Just wondering - that appears VERY high to me.

--Tom
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post #786 of 1496 Old 02-12-2012, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltaz View Post

You got me...

I went back to my posted settings. Yours left my picture looking very washed out, drained of color, and dim. The "reds" were definitely leached out, and everything seemed more bluish/greyish...

Not quibbling at all with the veracity of your settings; it's just that they definitely don't seem to work well on my panel...

I'll monkey around some more; see what I can come up with...

And again; I'm very happy with my settings and PQ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by vdoefx View Post

Waltaz, would you mind re-posting them?

Jason, yes, your settings are definitely better than when I first set up the set with my initial settings, however, the now seem just a tad washed out, and more reddish than acceptable (especially on skin tones).

My firmware is the latest, but can't find where the build date is.

Thanks.

--Tom


Well then it would seem as though we may have some internal component variances. We know there is a difference in the backlight method for starters from the 60" to the 70" & 80", not sure how much that plays a role here.

I was just hoping we could have a way to determine some of the set variances but that may prove to be too difficult.

Beyond that the only other thing I can think of is if either of you have previously viewed 6500k/D65 for any length of time? There most certainly is an adjustment period and accuracy is not always as fun/vivid (especially when your brain/eyes have adjusted to a blue pushed image). Also my settings are not meant for broadcast television, there are too many source variables there.

I was hopeful my settings would get all 632's at least in the ballpark (obviously no expectation for perfect from set to set as that is simply not possible) but it appears that was an unrealistic hope. With many 632 owners across all sizes reporting good results it appears they probably share the same internals as my own set. Please remember they may take some time to adjust to as the vast majority are simply not used to viewing an accurate image.

To those that find the settings do not work out thanks for at least giving them a chance.

Bottom line is everyone needs to enjoy their display and I was simply trying to add to that enjoyment.

Jason

HT = JVC RS40 / Lumagen Radiance / Vivitek 1186 /@133" / Denon x5200 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" subs x2 / CV 15" sub / Sony BDP s1000ES / Yamaha DV-S5860 / Toshiba HD-A3 / PureAV PF31
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post #787 of 1496 Old 02-12-2012, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post


...

Bottom line is everyone needs to enjoy their display and I was simply trying to add to that enjoyment.

Jason

Once again, Jason, thanks very much. Your observations, and demonstrated working values on the 60/632 are probably a great starting point.

--Tom
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post #788 of 1496 Old 02-12-2012, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdoefx View Post

Thanks! Btw, your posting indicates +7 for color... are you sure that's not -7? Just wondering - that appears VERY high to me.

--Tom

Quote:
Originally Posted by vdoefx View Post

Once again, Jason, thanks very much. Your observations, and demonstrated working values on the 60/632 are probably a great starting point.

--Tom

You're welcome Tom.

If you are finding the +7 Color way too high (which it is on my 632 as well, with a proper calibration) then don't give up on my posted settings just yet, you might just need some time to adjust to them (maybe along with some fine tuning for your own maximum enjoyment).

Best of luck,
Jason

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post #789 of 1496 Old 02-12-2012, 04:32 PM
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Forgot to mention something else, this is not a topic for this thread but instead is simply another possible variable (which is not meant in any way to implicate anyone, we may all suffer from it and not know it).

Do we all see color the same... it's known that many people have varying degrees of color blindness and it is more often found in males. So some people calibrating by eye may think what they are seeing is technically accurate when it may, in fact, not be. The obvious catch here is that an actual 6500k/D65 image will probably not look accurate to someone that could be slightly color blind but may not even realize it. I know this is a tricky subject and not one we need to debate here in the thread but it is always relevant when discussing calibrations. The reality here is that unless someone suffers from obvious color blindness it's very unlikely they would even realize it, so while we know we all hear a bit different there is also a chance that many of us see a bit different as well.

AFAIK this theory has not proved to be true or false.

Jason

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post #790 of 1496 Old 02-12-2012, 05:41 PM
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Thanks for the feedback and input...and yes, my Color is +7...but that is what the calibration based on WOW ended up at. I will try ratcheting it down and see what that does for me...

And Jason, I really appreciate your settings. In going back through everything, I should note that I was viewing various broadcast sources from my HD cable box via Component (I know; another topic, but I don't see the point with HDMI with non-1080p content). I did NOT watch any Blu-Rays, so that's another area I need to check out.

I will continue to play with all the settings...thanks again for all the input!

Edit: I do not know what a "6500K/D65" image looks like, so I don't know what my baseline should be. Not sure where to see this...
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post #791 of 1496 Old 02-12-2012, 05:54 PM
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I just bought mine today! Gets delivered to my house on Wednesday. Cant wait to see how it looks!
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post #792 of 1496 Old 02-12-2012, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltaz View Post

Thanks for the feedback and input...and yes, my Color is +7...but that is what the calibration based on WOW ended up at. I will try ratcheting it down and see what that does for me...

And Jason, I really appreciate your settings. In going back through everything, I should note that I was viewing various broadcast sources from my HD cable box via Component (I know; another topic, but I don't see the point with HDMI with non-1080p content). I did NOT watch any Blu-Rays, so that's another area I need to check out.

I will continue to play with all the settings...thanks again for all the input!

Edit: I do not know what a "6500K/D65" image looks like, so I don't know what my baseline should be. Not sure where to see this...

DOH, good point Walt and I had not considered Component at all... it's very possible that Component will require its own calibration , I'll have to look into that one.

If you have a Best Buy near by with a Magnolia inside you can ask them if any of the higher end sets have been ISF'd (some stores have done this while others have not). Of course there is always the higher end boutique A/V shops if you happen to have one in your area, they usually have staff that is either ISF certified or know what they are doing regarding calibration (if they offer that service).

Jason

HT = JVC RS40 / Lumagen Radiance / Vivitek 1186 /@133" / Denon x5200 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" subs x2 / CV 15" sub / Sony BDP s1000ES / Yamaha DV-S5860 / Toshiba HD-A3 / PureAV PF31
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post #793 of 1496 Old 02-12-2012, 06:29 PM
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On the way:

Disney WOW: World of Wonder [Blu-ray]
$16.53

http://www.moviemars.com/Sports-and-...er-Blu-ray.htm
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post #794 of 1496 Old 02-13-2012, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ace5000 View Post

On the way:

Disney WOW: World of Wonder [Blu-ray]
$16.53

http://www.moviemars.com/Sports-and-...er-Blu-ray.htm

It's a nice disc as long as you keep your expectations in check. It can certainly make for a nice improvement over out of the box as long as you understand the patterns (each pattern has a nice little explanation/tutorial that everyone new to calibration should watch prior to making any adjustments).

Jason

HT = JVC RS40 / Lumagen Radiance / Vivitek 1186 /@133" / Denon x5200 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" subs x2 / CV 15" sub / Sony BDP s1000ES / Yamaha DV-S5860 / Toshiba HD-A3 / PureAV PF31
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post #795 of 1496 Old 02-13-2012, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltaz View Post

Thanks for the feedback and input...and yes, my Color is +7...but that is what the calibration based on WOW ended up at. I will try ratcheting it down and see what that does for me...

...

Walt, ok, I'm now quite pleased. I used your exact settings in movie mode and wow... what a difference from my settings on game mode. I used the same color setting as you (+7) and I can see no blotchy red, does not bleed and looks much better without any "washed" out (dim) areas.

For all, I am *NOT* a videofile. We owned Sony tubes for over 40 years, then a Sony 52" LCD, and they all were pretty much set and forget.

These newer TV's apparently really do depend on the user to make exact settings. With all the variables, and options, I'm amazed that there isn't a single option = factory, bright, or dim.



--Tom
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post #796 of 1496 Old 02-13-2012, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdoefx View Post

Walt, ok, I'm now quite pleased. I used your exact settings in movie mode and wow... what a difference from my settings on game mode. I used the same color setting as you (+7) and I can see no blotchy red, does not bleed and looks much better without any "washed" out (dim) areas.

For all, I am *NOT* a videofile. We owned Sony tubes for over 40 years, then a Sony 52" LCD, and they all were pretty much set and forget.

These newer TV's apparently really do depend on the user to make exact settings. With all the variables, and options, I'm amazed that there isn't a single option = factory, bright, or dim.



--Tom

Nice...

Again, those settings really work for me, on my panel...glad to know I'm not losing it! And I don't consider myself a "videofile" also...just an "enthusiast", who is passionate about the PQ!

Question: Are you watching broadcast or Blu-Ray content, and are you connecting via HDMI or Component for broadcast (I assume HDMI for BR)?

Walt
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post #797 of 1496 Old 02-13-2012, 06:42 AM
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Walt,

I tested your Component settings with blu ray and I can see why you like them, they are vivid, but if the 632's share the same hardware then they graph out at about 8300k and push very blue (brilliant blue/crushed whites with several colors over saturated). I am thinking maybe you simply prefer the more vivid and less accurate image, nothing wrong with that as long as you enjoy your set.

If you want something slightly more accurate but still vivid drop the color temp to Med-Low and lower your contrast 1 or 2 clicks. This pulls those over saturated colors back in and reduces the brilliant blue whites. Consider that while a test disc tells you your contrast limit it does not know what is actually happening at the upper range to your colors (more often than not pushing contrast to it's max via a test disc results in color shifts at the higher IRE's) and if nothing is being done with those higher range settings then you can do more harm than good, thus the reason for a proper grey-scale calibration.

That said Component and HDMI do appear to be different regardless of internals set to set, this was my first trial with Component and the HDMI calibrations do not cross over well. Thank you for bringing Component to my attention, I had not even considered that people were using it with all the settings that have been posted, slipped right past me.

Jason

HT = JVC RS40 / Lumagen Radiance / Vivitek 1186 /@133" / Denon x5200 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" subs x2 / CV 15" sub / Sony BDP s1000ES / Yamaha DV-S5860 / Toshiba HD-A3 / PureAV PF31
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post #798 of 1496 Old 02-13-2012, 07:53 AM
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Ugh.

Been oggling the 632 and 732 at Costco and reading these boards for a couple of months. Had been targeting a purchase in April and had thought the 632 made more sense since the benifits of the yellow pixel, etc. didn't seem to justify the ~25% premium.

But just saw at Costco that they were out of the 632 and I'm assuming they won't be getting any more as the 2012 models should be coming out in March.

I assume they will be sweet, but I will likely need to monitor the boards for a while to see if they have any glaring issues, and am annoyed that they will have a 'new' price tag for a least a while.

Ugh.
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post #799 of 1496 Old 02-13-2012, 08:26 AM
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Is there an advantage to having my Xbox 360 hooked up to HDMI port 1 as opposed to 2 or 3? I thought I saw something about that being the fastest port for processing or that HDMI 1 was the port with vyper drive. Forgive me if I am way off here. I tried to search for what I had seen previously but I could not find it again.
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post #800 of 1496 Old 02-13-2012, 11:09 AM
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I need some advice on this TV. I was initially blown away by it but I began to notice "dirty screen"/ "diamond pattern" uniformity issues within a day. Has anyone been able to get used to this? Better yet, has anyone successfully exchanged the unit and gotten rid of the problem? I have about two weeks to decide...just looking for any opinions either way,
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post #801 of 1496 Old 02-13-2012, 11:39 AM
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I've had 2 of these TV's so far both with a build date of December 2011 and both units have the diamond pattern on them. when the camera pans on a light color it shows up pretty good. It sucks too becasue there have been absolutely no clouds on either set. Very nice blacks.
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post #802 of 1496 Old 02-13-2012, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quicsand View Post

Is there an advantage to having my Xbox 360 hooked up to HDMI port 1 as opposed to 2 or 3? I thought I saw something about that being the fastest port for processing or that HDMI 1 was the port with vyper drive. Forgive me if I am way off here. I tried to search for what I had seen previously but I could not find it again.

I ran lag tests initially on HDMI 4 and someone here mentioned HDMI 1 may be the best input so I tested it and had the same basic results (so the lag tests did not show any difference, at least not on the 60LE632).

Jason

HT = JVC RS40 / Lumagen Radiance / Vivitek 1186 /@133" / Denon x5200 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" subs x2 / CV 15" sub / Sony BDP s1000ES / Yamaha DV-S5860 / Toshiba HD-A3 / PureAV PF31
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post #803 of 1496 Old 02-13-2012, 02:18 PM
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Thank you very much Jason.
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post #804 of 1496 Old 02-13-2012, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Walt,

I tested your Component settings with blu ray and I can see why you like them, they are vivid, but if the 632's share the same hardware then they graph out at about 8300k and push very blue (brilliant blue/crushed whites with several colors over saturated). I am thinking maybe you simply prefer the more vivid and less accurate image, nothing wrong with that as long as you enjoy your set.

If you want something slightly more accurate but still vivid drop the color temp to Med-Low and lower your contrast 1 or 2 clicks. This pulls those over saturated colors back in and reduces the brilliant blue whites. Consider that while a test disc tells you your contrast limit it does not know what is actually happening at the upper range to your colors (more often than not pushing contrast to it's max via a test disc results in color shifts at the higher IRE's) and if nothing is being done with those higher range settings then you can do more harm than good, thus the reason for a proper grey-scale calibration.

That said Component and HDMI do appear to be different regardless of internals set to set, this was my first trial with Component and the HDMI calibrations do not cross over well. Thank you for bringing Component to my attention, I had not even considered that people were using it with all the settings that have been posted, slipped right past me.

Jason

Thanks for your continued attention, Jason. I actually prefer a "plasma-like" image, with a little more "pop" and brightness. I don't really want "vivid", as that is not "real" to me...I want accurate!

My settings seem to be excellent on my Blu-Ray, which I am connecting via HDMI to HDMI Input 4, and I have felt them to be pretty good for HD cable via Component, but I do think I need to dial them back a bit. I will try your tweaks above, and see how that looks.

And I can't believe you're not ripping me for using Component...!

Thanks again,

Walt
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post #805 of 1496 Old 02-13-2012, 04:27 PM
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BB want $199 to calibrate two inputs... I have doubts about their technique and expertise.
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post #806 of 1496 Old 02-13-2012, 06:24 PM
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Walt,

Had another DOH! moment... logic got the best of me and I used WOW with your settings on my 60LE632. Your basic color & tint are right on via my Sony S580 (so maybe no drastic set to set variables) BUT 6500k and D65 are no where in sight. This shows you the limitations of calibration by disc alone, obviously not your fault and for what you had to work with you did a good job (especially not knowing what 6500k/D65 looks like).


Now please bare with me here as I try to show you some of the things you are missing...

Use WOW and go to the Optimize / Expert / A/V Tools / Color...

now hopefully you still have my settings saved under GAME and yours under MOVIE, flick back and forth from game to movie... you see the blue background, there is very distinct texture there that your blue pushed settings are washing out.

Looking at the peppers you see how you are not obtaining those nice deep rich tones.

Look at her hair and adjust your sharpness back and forth from +1 to +2, do you see how her hair appears to lighten at +2, while you see more fine detail you are also creating ringing/ee/glowing around all edges.

Try the greyscale pattern as well and flip back and forth, even though your eyes will have to adjust between each you should get a better idea of just how blue pushed your settings are (of course your eyes will tell you that my settings are red until they adjust away from the blue, but they are far more accurate).

Hopefully that will shed some light on what we have been discussing, I don't know why it did not hit me earlier to simply use what you used to obtain your settings on my set.

If I can convert you over to the accurate side I'll let the component use slide.

Jason

HT = JVC RS40 / Lumagen Radiance / Vivitek 1186 /@133" / Denon x5200 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" subs x2 / CV 15" sub / Sony BDP s1000ES / Yamaha DV-S5860 / Toshiba HD-A3 / PureAV PF31
Media Room = Samsung 65KS8000 / Denon x3300 / Klipsch speakers / Velodyne subs / Samsung K8500 / PS4 Pro + PSVR / WiiU / PS3 / 360 / Wii / 1080 TI - i7 game PC / Multi-Arcade / My HT SLIDESHOW
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post #807 of 1496 Old 02-13-2012, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Walt,

Had another DOH! moment... logic got the best of me and I used WOW with your settings on my 60LE632. Your basic color & tint are right on via my Sony S580 (so maybe no drastic set to set variables) BUT 6500k and D65 are no where in sight. This shows you the limitations of calibration by disc alone, obviously not your fault and for what you had to work with you did a good job (especially not knowing what 6500k/D65 looks like).


Now please bare with me here as I try to show you some of the things you are missing...

Use WOW and go to the Optimize / Expert / A/V Tools / Color...

now hopefully you still have my settings saved under GAME and yours under MOVIE, flick back and forth from game to movie... you see the blue background, there is very distinct texture there that your blue pushed settings are washing out.

Looking at the peppers you see how you are not obtaining those nice deep rich tones.

Look at her hair and adjust your sharpness back and forth from +1 to +2, do you see how her hair appears to lighten at +2, while you see more fine detail you are also creating ringing/ee/glowing around all edges.

Try the greyscale pattern as well and flip back and forth, even though your eyes will have to adjust between each you should get a better idea of just how blue pushed your settings are (of course your eyes will tell you that my settings are red until they adjust away from the blue, but they are far more accurate).

Hopefully that will shed some light on what we have been discussing, I don't know why it did not hit me earlier to simply use what you used to obtain your settings on my set.

If I can convert you over to the accurate side I'll let the component use slide.

Jason

So I did this, and see exactly what you are talking about, with the exception of the colors of the peppers...that was a bit harder for me to see. But I saw everything else. Even in the "mode" menu, as you flip back and forth, you can really notice it. I'm getting it...

My girlfriend came out, so I asked her. She has no idea about any of this stuff, and is the "typical" consumer/viewer...her comments are telling:
- Movie is more "vibrant"
- Game is "dull" or "dim"
- Game looks like "a picture from the 70's or 80's"...(I said, "Well, that is more, traditional "film-like"...she scoffed)
- On the greyscale pattern, Movie looks "whiter"
- She agreed that the Game pic looks more like my plasma (58" Sammy in the bedroom)
- I explained to her the desire for a more "real" picture; she said, "Why would you pass on the "progress" of a more vibrant/popping/etc picture?"

She is the type of person who will choose LCD over plasma 100 out of a 100 times.

I have to admit, I have been seduced by some of the "vibrancy" and "pop" of the LCD picture, but I do want to dial it back to a more realistic/accurate picture...time to start tweaking...so to speak!

Again, great, great feedback and process here...
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post #808 of 1496 Old 02-14-2012, 06:28 AM
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Bump...my edit of my post above didn't refresh the thread...
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post #809 of 1496 Old 02-14-2012, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdoefx View Post

Thanks! Btw, your posting indicates +7 for color... are you sure that's not -7? Just wondering - that appears VERY high to me.

--Tom

I have the same color setting using the WOW disc. +7 for color and I had +5 for tint. I am using MOVIE mode.
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post #810 of 1496 Old 02-14-2012, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by rbanez View Post

I have the same color setting using the WOW disc. +7 for color and I had +5 for tint. I am using MOVIE mode.

Check out Jason's (DaGamePimp) info...I'm monkeying around with it all, and really learning, and will continue to refine it...

Big difference between Movie and Game modes...
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