Official Sharp 60" AQUOS LC-60LE632U Owners Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 360 Old 01-10-2012, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by gordon7 View Post

I've had 632 for about a month and pretty happy with it. I got 6300U first for $900 on BF but had to return it because it lacks any color adjustments from the user menu. I decided to give 632 a try and don't regret extra $300 I had to spend on it. Calibrations posted for 633 didn't work well for me and produced people with clay like faces, so I tweaked it myself to my liking. It is still not perfect but I'll get there eventually. Out of the box it had minor clouding but it went away by itself in a couple of weeks. BTW 6300U that I had, was very cloudy and clouds were really noticeable during dark scenes. I noticed prices pretty much the same everywhere on 632 now. There is 10% Discover card cashback at Sears now with free delivery.

I currently have the 6300, I got it for a sweet price point of $874 total so I have kept it. It did initially show some bad clouding, edge light leakage but I have tweaked the settings so it's not very noticeable, very acceptable. From what I've read the 6300 is the same panel as the 632 (sans the SMART functions, extra HDMI, & more advanced menu with color adjustments).

My two cents on the picture is that at times I'm blown away, and at other times I'm scratching my head. It may all be signal/content based, but 80% of the time I am impressed with the clarity, motion, blacks, colors of the panel. There are times though when the motion gets sloppy and I've seen judder, it's mostly when I'm watching my TIvo HD. Also the colors can seem off when going through different channels. I feel this is mostly content based though. I have read suggestions to turn off "motion enhancements, etc" on the blur/judder but I don't feel that ever helped. I wish all HD channels had the quality of shows like Leno, Fallon, or SNL. All those shows look flawless on the set which is why I know the problems I have on HD channels are mostly signal based.

For the price I paid it's a no brainer for me to keep the set, but I do toy with the idea of getting a Panny 60GT30, but all panels/tech have their shortcomings.
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post #62 of 360 Old 01-10-2012, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mark62 View Post

i should have it by the end of next week.

also ChadB told me it has great blacks... he said the one he calibrated had clouding but before he arrived to calibrate the set the owner "wiped" the screen and when he saw it it had no clouding. so if you havent read his review of the 80" do so, he said the review applies to the 60" too, he really has nothing bad to say about it after calibrated, except for it was a little grainy. he said it was a winner, high praise from him...

i wouldnt touch the pz950 with a ten foot pole.

i want to this saga to be over with, ill pray to the sharp gods....

I took another long look at the 632 in store today and I have to say that I am really impressed. It certainly held its own next to the more expensive sets, at least in the store conditions. I was surprised at how well the viewing angles were. They are picking up my ST30 tomorrow, so I may just bite the bullet and order one this week.
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post #63 of 360 Old 01-10-2012, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by lifesun View Post

I took another long look at the 632 in store today and I have to say that I am really impressed. It certainly held its own next to the more expensive sets, at least in the store conditions. I was surprised at how well the viewing angles were. They are picking up my ST30 tomorrow, so I may just bite the bullet and order one this week.

wow, picking mine up tomorrow too, so we should be getting them at about the same time....
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post #64 of 360 Old 01-10-2012, 11:33 PM
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Whatever you viewed in the store will pale in comparison to what it is capable of, unless of course you happen to have seen an ISF'd unit (some stores out there actually still do proper calibrations). I went into a BB and somewhat calibrated their display unit, which looked poor in comparison to what was around it, but when I was done it was then besting most of the sets around it.

I think sometimes certain retailers make the less expensive sets look 'meh' on purpose.

Jason
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post #65 of 360 Old 01-11-2012, 01:08 AM
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The so-called advancements you speak of are little more than marketing for most of todays hdtv's, before you respond with a borderline offensive post why not simply try it for yourself and see (no harm there). Now if you like all the 'advancements' (SOE, fake 120Hz) then by all means use them but I can assure you that what you will be watching is not what most here at AVS strive for. Game mode is simply smoother with less lag, 24 Hz on this set actually creates more judder than 60 Hz (directly compare and you'll see). Remember this is not a high end set and as such I am afraid to say most of its bells-n-whistles should be disabled for the best possible image.

If you are simply not a video purist then that is certainly your right but there is no need to chastise those of us that are (and there are many here at AVS).

Jason

Whoa! I could barely finish reading this because I had to keep ducking as you swung your huge [insert favored slang here] around. Talk about a "borderline offensive post"! Perhaps if you could get over yourself, Cliff Clavin, you could explain to us people whom you ASSume aren't "video purists" how the math works?

Films are shot at 24 fps which is 24 Hz. Sorry if this offends you, but this is a fact. If a Blu-ray outputs 24 Hz, why would it be better to chose the single refresh rate that doesn't divide equally?!? 24 Hz means each frame is displayed once; 120 Hz means five times per frame; 240 Hz = 10X; 600 Hz = 25X. The only refresh rate that doesn't divide equally is 60 Hz. 60/24=2.5 or halfway between 2 and 3 times per second. What to do? Oh yeah, that's right, use 3:2 pulldown and show one frame three times and the next one twice then the next one three times and then show the next one twice; rinse; repeat. Why, oh sage overlord to us puny humans, should we use the one rate that causes cadenced playback instead of something that divides evenly? If 24 Hz is so inferior, why is it an option on better players; something not everything has like progressive scan wasn't universal a decade ago.

The fact that you are calling SOE (i.e. soap opera effect) - which REAL AV purists consider a defect - a "marketing" point really calls into question your litany of abuse. What does lag have to do with watching movies? Playing games? Sure. Watching movies? Not in the least. I can't stand SOE and thought that was endemic to 120 Hz before I learned it was from garbage like "Film Mode" (which I've turned off) and whatnot. I want my movies to look like the filmmakers intended, NOT looking like hi-def video. Even my girlfriend, who used to say she couldn't tell the difference between DVD and Blu-ray (she has bad eyes) can spot the SOE on the VCR's input because I haven't gone in and adjusted that input yet.

I know you're too busy preening and whipping your manhood over your shoulder to prevent tripping over it, but how about trying to be helpful and explain how 2.5:1 is better than 1:1 playback? How about suggesting demo material that will allow us mere mortals to attempt to see what your more highly evolved eyes see? We get it; you're so much better than all of us; but couldn't you be a mensch and throw us a line here so we can at least get onto the foothills beneath your towering mountain of awesomeness? We'd appreciate it. Thanks.
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post #66 of 360 Old 01-11-2012, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by DirkBelig View Post

Whoa! I could barely finish reading this because I had to keep ducking as you swung your huge [insert favored slang here] around. Talk about a "borderline offensive post"! Perhaps if you could get over yourself, Cliff Clavin, you could explain to us people whom you ASSume aren't "video purists" how the math works?

Films are shot at 24 fps which is 24 Hz. Sorry if this offends you, but this is a fact. If a Blu-ray outputs 24 Hz, why would it be better to chose the single refresh rate that doesn't divide equally?!? 24 Hz means each frame is displayed once; 120 Hz means five times per frame; 240 Hz = 10X; 600 Hz = 25X. The only refresh rate that doesn't divide equally is 60 Hz. 60/24=2.5 or halfway between 2 and 3 times per second. What to do? Oh yeah, that's right, use 3:2 pulldown and show one frame three times and the next one twice then the next one three times and then show the next one twice; rinse; repeat. Why, oh sage overlord to us puny humans, should we use the one rate that causes cadenced playback instead of something that divides evenly? If 24 Hz is so inferior, why is it an option on better players; something not everything has like progressive scan wasn't universal a decade ago.

The fact that you are calling SOE (i.e. soap opera effect) - which REAL AV purists consider a defect - a "marketing" point really calls into question your litany of abuse. What does lag have to do with watching movies? Playing games? Sure. Watching movies? Not in the least. I can't stand SOE and thought that was endemic to 120 Hz before I learned it was from garbage like "Film Mode" (which I've turned off) and whatnot. I want my movies to look like the filmmakers intended, NOT looking like hi-def video. Even my girlfriend, who used to say she couldn't tell the difference between DVD and Blu-ray (she has bad eyes) can spot the SOE on the VCR's input because I haven't gone in and adjusted that input yet.

I know you're too busy preening and whipping your manhood over your shoulder to prevent tripping over it, but how about trying to be helpful and explain how 2.5:1 is better than 1:1 playback? How about suggesting demo material that will allow us mere mortals to attempt to see what your more highly evolved eyes see? We get it; you're so much better than all of us; but couldn't you be a mensch and throw us a line here so we can at least get onto the foothills beneath your towering mountain of awesomeness? We'd appreciate it. Thanks.

LOL, I'm sure you thought that would come across really amusing and somehow give you some AVS credit (for what I have no idea) but now you just ended up looking very foolish and out for some sort of childish internet revenge.

First you are way off here, you are taking everything that I stated and pushing it over the top and out of context to suit your agenda. Please notice that nobody else responded in such a manner, maybe they realized I was only trying to offer my own experience with this specific display and simply being helpful.

You are talking in generalizations and I am talking about a particular display (the 60LE632) and how it performs. Please actually show me where I stated any of the things that you actually attempted to discredit me for saying...? Please show me where I stated 24Hz should not be used on a display that handles it properly, last time I checked this was a specific 60LE632 thread (and my findings are that it does not handle 24 Hz better than 60 Hz, have you tested it in all modes via multiple sources as I have)?

If you truly think SOE and fake 120Hz are not marketing tools then I do not know what to say as those are very obvious offenders. To simply call SOE a 'defect' is way off base as it is most certainly another intended 'feature' used for marketing to entice more consumers to buy the latest gear. There is nothing defective about SOE, it functions as intended on most displays, video purists simply choose not to use it. Would any set that offers SOE as part of its feature set be considered a 'defect', I hardly think so.

I spent hours and hours testing almost every aspect of the 60LE632 over the course of many weeks, I would not speak out of turn had I not done so, and I also happen to know a thing or two regarding AV. Your jabs at attempting to discredit my knowledge/experience are very misguided and hopefully you'll realize that soon enough before you attempt more immature flaming. My claims of seeing more than most has nothing to do with my manhood , I have better than 20/20 and my eyes are instantly drawn to every flaw. Sorry if this somehow bothers you, it was not my intent and I actually think of it as a curse not a bonus, it's much less entertaining when you have eyes like mine.

The attitude of your post is so full of irony that it is laughable, please just let it go for the sake of the thread and accept your initial response to me was borderline offensive and totally unwarranted in relation to what I stated as nothing more than a helpful suggestion/opinion based upon my experience with this particular display. Had you asked for a more detailed explanation of my findings in a civil manner I would have been happy to share that information, obviously you were far from being civil (spewing out personal attacks and calling people names is strictly against AVS policy).

If you were offended by my comment that you simply may not be a videophile then please notice that I stated "if you like" and "if you are", I did not just "ASSume" as you so rudely put it. However please allow me to apologize just the same, I am sorry.

I will not report your overly offensive post as long as you can see fit to remain civil from here forward (so if you end up being reported please realize it was not me that did so).

Regards,
Jason


*** Sorry for the thread disruption, hopefully we can get back on track ***
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post #67 of 360 Old 01-11-2012, 02:58 AM
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Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

I will not report your very offensive post as long as you can see fit to remain civil from here forward (so if you end up being reported please realize it was not me that did so).

Translation: "Know your place or I'll have you banhammered! Respect mah authoritah! I'll cut you a break this time, but if someone else doesn't like you, it's not my fault. Just saying."

Got it.

Listen, Jason, I just want to get the most out of my 632 and by sharing info, tips and settings, ALL could benefit from this thread. I'd like to know:

* Who advertises SOE as a feature? I was under the impression SOE was a negative comment about the video like it produces. (It's ironic that Film Mode makes the picture looks like video.)

* What is "fake 120Hz"? I'm guessing it means poorly interpolated frames in between the real frames and not a high refresh rate.

* My comment about Game mode turning off processing wasn't necessarily meant about this set - when I was shopping, I read so many things about so many sets, I can't recall which review for which set posted comparison shots showing the inferior quality; I wasn't saying the 632 was that way.

* As for lag, were you referring to input lag (important for gamers) or AV lag with regards to lip sync issues with external receivers?

* What player are you using with your 632? Do other players give the same results unless they're set the same? Again I'd like to know how 24p content is best rendered by sending it out in 3:2 cadence?

* What are good test scenes to use?

Thanks in advance for your replies.
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post #68 of 360 Old 01-11-2012, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by DirkBelig View Post

Translation: "Know your place or I'll have you banhammered! Respect mah authoritah! I'll cut you a break this time, but if someone else doesn't like you, it's not my fault. Just saying."

Got it.

Listen, Jason, I just want to get the most out of my 632 and by sharing info, tips and settings, ALL could benefit from this thread. I'd like to know:

* Who advertises SOE as a feature? I was under the impression SOE was a negative comment about the video like it produces. (It's ironic that Film Mode makes the picture looks like video.)

* What is "fake 120Hz"? I'm guessing it means poorly interpolated frames in between the real frames and not a high refresh rate.

* My comment about Game mode turning off processing wasn't necessarily meant about this set - when I was shopping, I read so many things about so many sets, I can't recall which review for which set posted comparison shots showing the inferior quality; I wasn't saying the 632 was that way.

* As for lag, were you referring to input lag (important for gamers) or AV lag with regards to lip sync issues with external receivers?

* What player are you using with your 632? Do other players give the same results unless they're set the same? Again I'd like to know how 24p content is best rendered by sending it out in 3:2 cadence?

* What are good test scenes to use?

Thanks in advance for your replies.


LOL, ok you got me there after re-reading it but please be assured that was not how it was intended (love the SouthPark reference). I put it that way because having been here at AVS for so long you get into it on occasion and people have been banned that blamed me for reporting them when it simply was not me that did so. I always try to give people another shot since I know many of us share a very serious passion for AV (and then some like myself are a bit OCD when it comes to AV).

Thank you firstly for the very civil response, I was seriously hoping it was not going to drag both of us down any further (we both look bad at this point, time to redeem ourselves).

You are correct SOE is not the technical term, SOE has just become the most commonly used term for "film mode" (as you already knew). I am just guilty of using it since it seems more people know what it is versus saying 'film mode'.

With that said I will revisit this tomorrow (have a sinus infection and have to get some sleep) and answer your questions to the best of my ability (I don't build or design the things after all).


UPDATE :

When I say fake 120Hz I am meaning that the display is not actually doing true 120Hz, it cannot accept and process a 120Hz signal (120 is manipulated/processed and not actual).

Regarding Game mode it's very simple logic why I feel it is best for this display, it turns off all the fake/lag inducing processing and all the calibration controls remain in effect (why not use it when it reduces the chance of having issues?).

I tried many sources (Sony S580, LG590, Samsung C6900, PS3, PC) and each showed the same results... 60Hz is smoother than 24Hz and Motion Enhancement is best left OFF (at least for BD playback). There are too many variables for television programming to make a blanket statement on that one... OTA/Cable/SAT/etc..

A very telling scene can be found on Star Wars Ep.III RotS, when General Grievous's ship is landing on the planet Utapau (Obi-Wan follows him here, I think this is chapter 8 but I'll have to pop it in and check). As the ship lowers into the massive pit you can clearly see the advantage that 60 Hz has over 24 Hz with the 60LE632 (Motion setting does not change the outcome, I tried 24 and 60 with each Motion setting).



Have a great day,
Jason
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post #69 of 360 Old 01-12-2012, 07:40 AM
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I had forgotten that we recently got a 6300 for our conference room at one of our corporate offices. I was working after hours there the other night so I was able to take a look at it. The only thing that I could really look at were black levels, uniformity and reflections as we only have the video conferencing equipment as a source.

Black level with the backlight set to standard seems pretty good, I would say its close or maybe even a little darker than my tweaked LG PV450 plasma. Of course it does have a slight blue tint being LCD. On an all black screen there was clouding. Not horrible, but it was there. I was able to manipulate some of the clouding by tweaking the bezel, so it might be correctable. Reflections were really muted with this panel, especially compared to my current plasma.

All in all, if the 632 uses the same panel as the 6300 I think I will be happy with this set as long as the clouding is minimal and the set has good shadow detail which I had no way to test.

I really wish I would have remembered that we had the 6300 as I would have brought a BD player with me to test....

I should have my advanced refund from Amazon by today for the Panny plasma I sent back, so I might just bite the bullet and order one tonight.
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post #70 of 360 Old 01-12-2012, 08:02 AM
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my refund is still processing..
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post #71 of 360 Old 01-12-2012, 08:12 AM
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my refund is still processing..

Well, in my case, they are going to verify my set is with the shipper today, then issue the refund, so I may not be able to actually order today either. Did you use a standard credit card or the Amazon card? I used my Amazon card, so not sure how long that takes.


EDIT: I also just noticed that the 632 is limited stock now.......jeesh...
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post #72 of 360 Old 01-12-2012, 10:23 AM
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I also just noticed that the 632 is limited stock now.......jeesh...

If you're willing to pay Amazon price then get it from Sears with 10% Dsicover cashback instead. It will be less there. Store pick up or free delivery.
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post #73 of 360 Old 01-12-2012, 10:59 AM
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[quote=gordon7;21482138]If you're willing to pay Amazon price then get it from Sears with 10% Dsicover cashback instead. It will be less there. Store pick up or free delivery.[/QUOTE

Well the nice thing about Amazon is no sales tax, plus 24 months 0%, so even saving $56, the financing terms win out in my opinion. Plus Amazon will pick the set back up for free if I have a problem. Oh, and I don't have to deal with Sears........too far away for pick up to make sense and their delivery has been problematic to say the least.....

Thanks for the info though. Its not life or death for me if I have to wait a little while either.
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post #74 of 360 Old 01-12-2012, 11:32 AM
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Well, in my case, they are going to verify my set is with the shipper today, then issue the refund, so I may not be able to actually order today either. Did you use a standard credit card or the Amazon card? I used my Amazon card, so not sure how long that takes.


EDIT: I also just noticed that the 632 is limited stock now.......jeesh...

im using the amazon card. last time it didnt even take 24 hours for the card to show the refund..
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post #75 of 360 Old 01-12-2012, 11:49 AM
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im using the amazon card. last time it didnt even take 24 hours for the card to show the refund..

Cool, that's good to know.
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post #76 of 360 Old 01-12-2012, 02:47 PM
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Cool, that's good to know.

OUT OF STOCK.... im freakin peeved...
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post #77 of 360 Old 01-12-2012, 02:50 PM
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OUT OF STOCK.... im freakin peeved...


Wow, that was fast, an hour ago they still had 5! I would imagine they will get more pretty fast. When I was looking at this set a few weeks ago it had it listed out of stock.......2 - 3 weeks, and then the next day they were back in stock....
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post #78 of 360 Old 01-12-2012, 03:00 PM
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Wow, that was fast, an hour ago they still had 5! I would imagine they will get more pretty fast. When I was looking at this set a few weeks ago it had it listed out of stock.......2 - 3 weeks, and then the next day they were back in stock....

i dont have tv now... and this all is going on 4 months... this is my luck.
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post #79 of 360 Old 01-12-2012, 03:23 PM
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well now it says 2 left one for me and one for you....hardly...
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post #80 of 360 Old 01-12-2012, 05:02 PM
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well now it says 2 left one for me and one for you....hardly...

Well hopefully you snag one, Luckily I have several other sets in my house, So I am not without a tv right now.
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post #81 of 360 Old 01-12-2012, 05:21 PM
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Looks like its back in stock at amazon.
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post #82 of 360 Old 01-12-2012, 10:35 PM
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well im happy to report i got my refund and ordered the 632! there is still 1 left. i hope i get a good one....
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post #83 of 360 Old 01-13-2012, 05:40 AM
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This thread turned into amazon inventory tracker ;-(
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post #84 of 360 Old 01-13-2012, 07:10 AM
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Lol, Sorry about the inventory posts!

I am still torn on getting this set or the Lg pz950 plasma........

I am just paranoid about black levels, clouding and blue tint...........decisions.....decisions...
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post #85 of 360 Old 01-13-2012, 08:08 AM
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love mine, no regrets....bright, colorful.
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post #86 of 360 Old 01-13-2012, 09:47 AM
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Well, after reading more reviews here and out on the net I decided against the LG PZ950 plasma because of glare and reflections........the main reason why I am replacing my current LG plasma. So, even though Amazon states out of stock again..... I bit the bullet and ordered the 632. Once I finally get it, set it up and calibrate it I will report back here on my impressions.

If this set doesn't work out, it looks like I am either stuck with my current plasma, or wait for to see how the 2012 models compare......
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post #87 of 360 Old 01-13-2012, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesun View Post

Well, after reading more reviews here and out on the net I decided against the LG PZ950 plasma because of glare and reflections........the main reason why I am replacing my current LG plasma. So, even though Amazon states out of stock again..... I bit the bullet and ordered the 632. Once I finally get it, set it up and calibrate it I will report back here on my impressions.

If this set doesn't work out, it looks like I am either stuck with my current plasma, or wait for to see how the 2012 models compare......

i think you made the right choice. i hope they get more in stock soon. last night i even had to buy a gift card to cover the amount over my credit card limit. they gave me a discount on the 632 that coincidentally would have put the price below my limit and i could have called them this morning and they would have done a price adjustment right then but i didnt want to wait because they would have been sold out. so i just emailed them last night after i placed the order and they have already adjusted the price.

i do think you made the right choice, i mean there is not an option anymore this year with the plasmas, and that is a shame.
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post #88 of 360 Old 01-13-2012, 12:55 PM
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Yeah, this will be the last 2011 model I try, It's pretty sad that so many 2011 models have such bad issues...
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post #89 of 360 Old 01-16-2012, 12:21 AM
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Just noticed something odd while watching some video off the USB key - the color settings aren't adjustable AND they have the settings from an old calibration. I have the User preset chosen, but almost all of the color settings are grayed out. The only settings I can adjust are AV Mode, OPC, Backlight, and under Advanced, Color Temperature (with RGB gain under it) and Gamma.

What's weird is that I don't believe I used josay's settings from the 633 on that input, but the original Color/Tint +/-7 settings are still in play even though I've set both to 0 in HDMI1 (DTV) and HDMI2 (BD) inputs.

I reset that input and dialed in the settings I could, but am wondering why they're locked out and am hoping it didn't screw up my settings on the other inputs, though I don't think it should. I've looked through the manual and neither the color settings nor USB playback sections address this. Anyone got a hint? Thanks.

UPDATE: After posting, I went back into the menu after switching to another program and all the settings were available to adjust. What was odd then was most of the settings were the same as before, so the reset didn't affect it. Very odd.

Slightly concerning was how the TV hung up when I tried to back out of the file I was watching. The screen went black and turning off the set or trying to get to another input didn't work. I had to shut down the set, pull the key drive I was playing back from, and restart the TV, which worked fine. Hmmmm.
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post #90 of 360 Old 01-17-2012, 03:53 AM
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Some more testing info... this time here are some LAG test results to show the variance from MOVIE mode to GAME mode.

MOVIE = 140ms


GAME = 30ms


The tests are not showing the actual total LAG of the display (I have to break out my CRT monitor for that test).

Each test was run multiple times and there was a slight variance with the results but the ones posted are about the average.

I just wanted to back up my GAME mode suggestion with some factual evidence.

Jason
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