The dreaded soap opera effect - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 112 Old 08-21-2012, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by raven69david View Post

I've got a 52" XBR4 and the SOE was really noticeable for several weeks. After a few months, the effect became less and less noticeable even though my friends/neighbors would be mesmerized by the awesomeness of the picture. I'd guess that you're getting used to it and it's not a problem with the TV, but I may be wrong.
Back OT, I Love the SOE and love to watch BD and HD content with it. I love watching movies as if I'm looking outside of my window. I also like to watch them the way I saw them at the theater so sometimes I just turn off the effect. But 99% of the time I leave the effect on.

I'm almost certain it's not my getting used to the effect. It's nonexistent. A bit disappointing going from a 120hz to 240hz in hopes of a more prominent effect.
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post #92 of 112 Old 09-05-2012, 01:26 PM
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post #93 of 112 Old 01-31-2013, 03:33 PM
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I hate the SOE. It is interpolated crap. Now if it's natively shot high frame rate stuff, that lends itself nicely to nature shows , sports , etc.
You need good lighting, not much fake props. All natural stuff around it. Otherwise your props and sets better be as realistic as possible.
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post #94 of 112 Old 02-09-2013, 01:45 PM
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almost a year now since I've been watching all my blu rays with the SOE on. it's a preferential thing, I guess. I like it a lot. I can adapt to new technology. most people just can't let go of 24fps because it's what they've been used to.

when the hobbit was showing at 48fps, I forced a lot of my friends to watch that version instead of the 24fps one. They had the same reaction. They said it was a overwhelming and looked different at first but when they got used to it, they said it was very nice to look at.

when I have kids, they will never watch 24fps when they're in my house. I'll train their eyes to get used to faster frame rates than 24fps. biggrin.gif
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post #95 of 112 Old 02-09-2013, 01:56 PM
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If you like the soap opera effect, then you'll love kinescoped material from the 50s and early 60s. To my eyes both have the same effect.
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post #96 of 112 Old 02-10-2013, 09:06 AM
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Before i got my Epson 6500UB projector i hated all of the transformers movies...i then poped in TDSOTM an WHOA WTF? Popped in Harry Potter and again WOWZA!

Yea, i like Harry Potter and ALL of my movie collection to look like it was shot on HD video!! Film to me looks like low def compared to the Epsons interpolation.
I watched a John Wayne movie and Logans run and they both look like they were shot yesterday!!! Seemed like the Duke was still alive today!

Honestly at least for me...film should be considered a thing of the past...with the coming of 4k i want to see EVERY crisp detail and not the shadow veil of film.
The transformations in Transformers look so much smoother and 3d like compared to the flatness of film. JMO

I don't want to see what the director intended...i want to see his mistakes that he is trying to hide in film!
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post #97 of 112 Old 02-14-2013, 01:56 PM
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All,


After about 1.25 years with my 55" 120Hz Hisense LCD, I can say that I am as thrilled with the picture today as I was when I bought it. The SOE has enhanced my viewing pleasure. All other TVs look like garbage compared to the brilliant display of my Hisense. When I visited my cousin over last weekend, I was shocked at the disappointing picture rendered by his plasma display. It is about 4 or 5 years old. I remember how knocked out I was initially by that TV. Now, I'm just looking at it comparing it to my LCD saying to myself, "I'm glad I'm not looking at this everyday."


Thanks,
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post #98 of 112 Old 04-24-2013, 06:49 PM
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I have gone back and forth with this issue until I finally decided to get a 3D enabled TV last weekend.

I loved the 120Hz for HD shows and Sporting events on a 46" Sony LCD and then on a 47" LG LED, but sadly each of those sets met an untimely demise and I found myself looking for a replacement recently. While I was a big fan of the 120Hz / SOE for live material, for films I was more mixed. If I had a movie like Reservoir Dogs (a character-driven piece with little special effects or set pieces) I found it to be pretty much an enjoyable experience and a fresh take on the movie. But films like the Pirates of the Caribbean or other action/outdoor/set-piece driven movies did not seem to work as well for me. I would be wowed at the start and then gradually become very distracted by the appearance and it did not work for me.

Then I brought home the LG 47LM6200 and started messing around with 3D material utilizing the TruMotion 120Hz effect to its fullest. Pixar films like Finding Nemo 3D and Monster's, Inc. 3D were STUNNING. Its may be just the colors and saturation of those films, but whatever it was, it was enough to stop my wife - who HATES movies and technology and home theater - dead in her tracks and she sat down and watched a movie for the first time in years...

The SOE and 3D are an outstanding marriage. I also popped in Avatar 3D and was reminded why I enjoyed the 3D theater presentation of that film so much more than the Blu-Ray 2D home theater version. The level of immersion on Pandora is simply night and day different in 3D than 2D for me. I actually enjoyed the film for the first time since I initially saw it in a 3D theater presentation. I'm really looking forward to a return viewing of The Hobbit in 3D now.

Prior to actually making the leap and bringing home a 3D TV, I was not sold that it was worth it, but for me anyway, the pairing of a pronounced SOE and 3D images is the sweet spot for now.
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post #99 of 112 Old 05-22-2013, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moostache2 View Post


The SOE and 3D are an outstanding marriage. I also popped in Avatar 3D and was reminded why I enjoyed the 3D theater presentation of that film so much more than the Blu-Ray 2D home theater version. The level of immersion on Pandora is simply night and day different in 3D than 2D for me. I actually enjoyed the film for the first time since I initially saw it in a 3D theater presentation. I'm really looking forward to a return viewing of The Hobbit in 3D now.

Prior to actually making the leap and bringing home a 3D TV, I was not sold that it was worth it, but for me anyway, the pairing of a pronounced SOE and 3D images is the sweet spot for now.

It is really cool to hear how much your wife liked it! After four weeks since you made your post, Does she still watch TV with you? I cannot imagine going back to grainy dull film. The SOE is worth every penny I paid for this TV. I don't know if you watch regular TV, but the shows that are eye-popping are Grimm, Person or Interest and Haven. For some reason, ABC has the absolute worst HD. FOX is marginally better than ABC. For me, CBS and NBC (or NBC owned like SyFy and USA) are what make owning my TV worth IT!!
Congrats for embracing a new world of visual pleasure!!!
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post #100 of 112 Old 05-22-2013, 01:50 PM
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I'm a great believer in the motion control on my Sharp 845 70" 3D.
It stabilizes the movement of objects with little or no blurring or artifacting -- ever.
On 3D, it is indispensable, since the refresh rate is cut in half.
I'm really glad I finally tried it, after listening to purists saying it is crap.
I think it depends on the processing power of a particular set and maybe the quality of the signal.
I use Dish Network HD and have great results. BluRay 3D is outstanding as well...
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post #101 of 112 Old 05-22-2013, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

I understand that you may prefer the look SOE offers when watching a movie at home, and that's fine. What annoys me with many of these frame interpolation fans is that they insist that it somehow improves the picture or fixes a fatal flaw with film content. Sure, it removes judder, but it introduces a whole host of other problems that are (subjectively) worse. I don't know about anyone else's eyes, but people don't glide or float in front of me smooth as butter in real life. There is certain amount of blur that is inherent to movement. Estimated frames do not accurately emulate real motion and ruin the look and feel of films. But again, that's just my opinion. You're certainly welcome to your own, but don't sell your opinion that frame interpolation improves the look of films as fact.

This argument precludes the notion that frame interpolation tech can't or won't get better and more realistic. I have no doubt that there are tons of psycho-perceptual studies on human vision that can be applied to this problem to smooth out older content at lower FPS. And I'd rather higher resolution like 4K before higher native frame rate : best of both worlds : I can still enjoy 4K / 60 fps, and save the bandwidth costs by having my electonics or software up-frame it. Probably better quality to spend the same bandwidth going up to 4K / 24 or 30, than 1080p / 60 in the content stream, and really improve a lot on frame interpolation tech.

I'd love to have 48HZ Hobbit and Avatar 2 Blurays one day, but my projector will only accept 1080p / 24 in frame packed mode anyway. Probably best to play it in 2D with 48HZ than 3D in 24, for smoothness. One thing's for sure, the action in the Hobbit was WAAAAAAY better in Imax 3D / HFR than without HFR. I saw both, and HFR allows you to pick up so much more information than you could without it, especially in the fast battle scenes. It was incredible!!
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post #102 of 112 Old 05-22-2013, 04:47 PM
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The feature doesn't run all the time either. When there is a faster frame rate present, it is displayed normally.
You can tell when a commercial or other programming switches to 24 fps because it smooths a bit, but it takes very little to get used to it.
When video goes back to more modern frame rates, the picture displays without processing. Bumping the backlight to 120 hz helps, but 240 doesn't.
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post #103 of 112 Old 05-22-2013, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooski View Post

...I just can't see how some people will take their new TV's, which are capable of producing some very realistic (almost scary) images, with incredible clarity, contrast, and most importantly, depth, and dumb down the settings to make everything look like a 50 year old film.
That's what iPads, smart phones and low bit rate streaming video are for...

Be seeing you!
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post #104 of 112 Old 06-05-2013, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cctvtech View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooski View Post

...I just can't see how some people will take their new TV's, which are capable of producing some very realistic (almost scary) images, with incredible clarity, contrast, and most importantly, depth, and dumb down the settings to make everything look like a 50 year old film.
That's what iPads, smart phones and low bit rate streaming video are for...

Some people will have a hard time adjusting. The kids who will grow up with SOE on their yvs will not have any complaint about it.

Sent from Galaxy Note using Tapatalk 2
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post #105 of 112 Old 06-05-2013, 10:09 AM
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As has been pointed out time after time on AVS, the dreaded SOE is purely a personal preference thing if one chooses to implement it. Some love it, some hate, others, meh. There is no right or wrong.
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post #106 of 112 Old 06-06-2013, 09:33 AM
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I was looking at a Samsung LCD/LED HDTV and there is an adjustment called Auto Motion Plus which appears to set the level or aggressiveness of interpolation. I don't understand why there are 10 steps or levels. It would seem that you either add an interpolated frame or you do not.

Any idea what the difference is between a level 1 interpolated frame and a level 5 or level 10 interpolated frame?
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post #107 of 112 Old 06-06-2013, 12:07 PM
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I THINK it's how the inserted frame is processed (blur and judder). On LG tv's, motion interpolation is called TruMotion and has three preset levels, Low, Medium, and High. There is also a User setting in which you can adjust blur and judder in various steps independently of each other. Never really found much use for that because I can't tell the difference. When I use motion interpolation it's only for network tv, not blu-ray/DVD.
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post #108 of 112 Old 06-06-2013, 01:10 PM
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The Samsung that I was thinking about getting has some fixed choices but also has a custom setting which lets you choose 10 levels for blur reduction & 10 levels for judder reduction.

The online manual states:
Blur Reduction: Adjusts the blur reduction level for signals input from all video sources.
Judder Reduction: Adjusts the judder reduction level for signals input from a video source through which you are playing a movie.

I played with the custom settings but it was difficult to see any significant changes in the image. But I'm not sure what Samsung considers a movie. Are they limiting this to a 24fps Blu-ray movie? Or does the TV also detect a movie that's being broadcast at 720p or 1080i?

One of the fixed choices looked as good as anything. But it made me curious what could they possibly be doing 10 different ways to an interpolated frame.
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post #109 of 112 Old 06-06-2013, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

One of the fixed choices looked as good as anything. But it made me curious what could they possibly be doing 10 different ways to an interpolated frame.

Subtle changes in the algorithm so they can boast of 10 setting choices. Basically, marketing. I'm kind of a purist so I won't alter a blu-ray movie with artificial video enhancements, hence I never use motion interpolation for blu-ray movies. My blu-ray player and tv can handle 24fps when presented so that's what I do. Inserting a frame to change the look and feel of a 24fps movie is not something that I want to do.
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post #110 of 112 Old 07-03-2013, 09:49 AM
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As this thread has matured (as have I), I am heartened to see that acceptance of SOE is starting to shift as people discover it.

I was at the home of a friend and her kids the other day and nearly clawed by eyes out looking at the Standard Definition picture they were watching. I took all the various devices and changed them to high definition making the owner start using the INCLUDED HDMI cables she had tossed aside because she didn't know what they were. I spent an hour or so making minute changes to the picture to clean up judder and blurriness as the TV didn't have obvious settings for motion interpolation like Low, Medium and High. Even the owner's manual didn't give me much to go on. The set is a Japanese brand normally sold in the US but the particular model series is not. I didn't bother to ask how the owner got her hands on that TV.

After all my tinkering, the owner said, "Wow, I didn't know the TV could do that!" I just shook my head in disbelief at the kind of crappy picture she was willing to put up with!!

Long Live the SOE!!

-W or babylon5fan
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post #111 of 112 Old 07-03-2013, 12:23 PM
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I have not and never will accept. it. People will never accept this look for films in theatres. The vast majority of people find it unpleasant. Hollywood is trying to fix something that isn't broken.
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post #112 of 112 Old 07-03-2013, 02:09 PM
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+1. The only time I use it is for network television, never for movies (BD/DVD).
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