Official 4:4:4 / Chroma Subsampling Thread - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 403 Old 10-17-2014, 12:41 PM
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My Sony W900A can not only do 4:4:4, but it can also handle 4:4:4+audio over HDMI with no EDID overrides. Awesome!! As far as AVRs go, my Onkyo TX-NR3010 was NOT passing 4:4:4 no matter what I tried, when using the HDMI Main output. The only thing that got 4:4:4 through the Onkyo was to switch to the HDMI Sub output which apparently bypasses the main video processor completely and does a proper pass-through.

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post #392 of 403 Old 10-23-2014, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyKillK View Post
My Sony W900A can not only do 4:4:4, but it can also handle 4:4:4+audio over HDMI with no EDID overrides. Awesome!! As far as AVRs go, my Onkyo TX-NR3010 was NOT passing 4:4:4 no matter what I tried, when using the HDMI Main output. The only thing that got 4:4:4 through the Onkyo was to switch to the HDMI Sub output which apparently bypasses the main video processor completely and does a proper pass-through.
Is that 4k or am I missing something? I thought 1080p with chroma of 4:4:4 was not at question?
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post #393 of 403 Old 10-27-2014, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by traumadisaster View Post
I thought 1080p with chroma of 4:4:4 was not at question?
On my samsung 65hu8550, I tested 1080P at 24,30,50, 60 Hz with the 'quick brown fox' test. 24,30,50 all were displaying 420 chroma. Only 60Hz was 444. 1080i was 420 chroma.
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post #394 of 403 Old 10-27-2014, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
You can make absolute sure that you're getting 4:4:4 with the following image at native 100% zoom:
http://i.minus.com/ibyJcwdIniHUEs.png

I recommend opening and viewing the image in MS Paint so as to avoid any DPI scaling issues that affects images in some web browsers and image viewers.
Thanks for posting this. One of the easiest ways to determine your display. I just verified my new Sony 70w840b (feb 2014) is 4:4:4 compliant in game mode and 4:2:2 in cinema mode. Also I checked my 2 LCD monitors LG 32LD450 (4:4:4) via dvi-to-hdmi nvidia gtx670 and Benq BL2411 (4:4:4) via vga cable onboard amd gpu.
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post #395 of 403 Old 10-28-2014, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by traumadisaster View Post
Is that 4k or am I missing something? I thought 1080p with chroma of 4:4:4 was not at question?
Nobody questioned chroma at 4K /24Hz either until Sep.19, 2014. But degraded 420 chroma was there for all to see ever since the HU series came out in March 2014. Only requirement is a video card that does 4K res 444 chroma, which most people have in their computers.
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post #396 of 403 Old 11-13-2014, 10:40 AM
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HDCP 2.2 is dogshit.

Please tell me the quote below from the CNET review of the Vizio P series 55 inch is NOT accurate.

"Like most 4K sets, the Vizio P series can't accept 4:4:4 chroma subsampling signals via any of its inputs. The company claims that's because three of the ports are compatible with HDCP 2.2, which doesn't allow 4:4:4 signals. This isn't a big deal to us since, once again, the only common 4:4:4 sources come from PCs."

Does this mean that HDCP 2.2 (HDMI 2.0) has a requirement to NOT include Chroma 4:4:4 at 4k60z?

I know that the Vizio P series can accept 4:4:4 1080P@120hz but not 4k60z, the question is why? If HDCP 2.2 is the problem then Displayport is most assuredly the future for everyone on this forum.


More info:

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/tel...cp-2-2-1256763

"High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection can be used to secure the transmission of digital assets, be they broadcast or media. Without a device-to-device handshake, HDCP 2.2 delivered content isn't going to make it onto any screen. Unfortunately HDCP 2.2 chip availability is trailing behind 4K product roll-outs.

Trouble ahead

Chris Pinder heads up HDConnectivity, video distribution specialists for the custom install industry. "Yes I see trouble ahead," he confided to me. One complication is backwards compatibility, he says. "An HDCP 2.2 device would not work in the mix with any (currently available) HDCP 2.1 (and below) TV or sources. Everything has to be 2.2."

Pointedly Pinder points out that the likes of Sky may actually have no intention of implementing HDCP 2.2, simply because the chipset would not only drive up the cost of any new HEVC Sky box but limit compatibility with available 4K displays.

Conversely, a 4K Blu-ray player could circumnavigate the HDCP 2.2 headache by offering two HDMI outputs, with one going directly to the screen (which would then also need to be HDCP 2.2 compliant). But we could speculate until we go 4:4:4 blue in the face.

If all this is all beginning to sound like a hideous mess, that's because 4K UHD's standards are a hideous mess"

For example: http://www.cnet.com/products/samsung-un65hu9000/ go to HDCP 2.2 in the article.

Apparently the SiL9679 chip being used by TV manufacturers for HDCP 2.2 support over HDMI 2.0, the only such chip available currently, is only capable of up to 4:2:0 chroma at 4K at 60 hz. Anyone looking for full RGB color at 4K60 on a TV should try to find one without HDCP 2.2 and hopefully using another chip, if this is the case.
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post #397 of 403 Old 11-13-2014, 01:29 PM
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That seems strange since DisplayPost 1.3 is also compatible with (though not required to use) HDCP 2.2, and 4:4:4 chroma is obviously very important to the PC industry.

Either there's been a misunderstanding, or HDMI 2.0 is truely becoming a mess. If the latter, then trying to retain backwards compatibility with the same connector seems to be causing more headaches than just going with a completely different connector that's guaranteed to work such as USB C-type (with DisplayPort Alt mode).
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post #398 of 403 Old 11-15-2014, 09:15 AM
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Hi guys ,

I was about to purchase the Sharp AQUOS LC-70UD27U , until i saw all this stuff about 4:4:4 Chroma , that i had no idea about , and this really matters to me as I have my PC hooked to my TV for watching movies , series and gaming. and I plan on gaming @4k60hz aswell. ( yes my PC is super beefy )

I thought before buying the LC-70UD27U , to ask sharp via facebook first and I received this answer :

"We apologize for the delay. The Sharp AQUOS LC-70UD27U supports 4K@60Hz but 4:4:4 chroma sub-sampling is only available via analog RGB video."

I dont get it entirely ,what do they mean by "via analog RGB video" ? Are they talking about those colored old cables ? is this a good or a bad thing ? can someone please explain ? thx
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post #399 of 403 Old 11-15-2014, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastuch View Post
Please tell me the quote below from the CNET review of the Vizio P series 55 inch is NOT accurate.

"Like most 4K sets, the Vizio P series can't accept 4:4:4 chroma subsampling signals via any of its inputs. The company claims that's because three of the ports are compatible with HDCP 2.2, which doesn't allow 4:4:4 signals. This isn't a big deal to us since, once again, the only common 4:4:4 sources come from PCs."

Does this mean that HDCP 2.2 (HDMI 2.0) has a requirement to NOT include Chroma 4:4:4 at 4k60z?

I know that the Vizio P series can accept 4:4:4 1080P@120hz but not 4k60z, the question is why? If HDCP 2.2 is the problem then Displayport is most assuredly the future for everyone on this forum.


More info:

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/tel...cp-2-2-1256763

"High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection can be used to secure the transmission of digital assets, be they broadcast or media. Without a device-to-device handshake, HDCP 2.2 delivered content isn't going to make it onto any screen. Unfortunately HDCP 2.2 chip availability is trailing behind 4K product roll-outs.

Trouble ahead

Chris Pinder heads up HDConnectivity, video distribution specialists for the custom install industry. "Yes I see trouble ahead," he confided to me. One complication is backwards compatibility, he says. "An HDCP 2.2 device would not work in the mix with any (currently available) HDCP 2.1 (and below) TV or sources. Everything has to be 2.2."

Pointedly Pinder points out that the likes of Sky may actually have no intention of implementing HDCP 2.2, simply because the chipset would not only drive up the cost of any new HEVC Sky box but limit compatibility with available 4K displays.

Conversely, a 4K Blu-ray player could circumnavigate the HDCP 2.2 headache by offering two HDMI outputs, with one going directly to the screen (which would then also need to be HDCP 2.2 compliant). But we could speculate until we go 4:4:4 blue in the face.

If all this is all beginning to sound like a hideous mess, that's because 4K UHD's standards are a hideous mess"

For example: http://www.cnet.com/products/samsung-un65hu9000/ go to HDCP 2.2 in the article.

Apparently the SiL9679 chip being used by TV manufacturers for HDCP 2.2 support over HDMI 2.0, the only such chip available currently, is only capable of up to 4:2:0 chroma at 4K at 60 hz. Anyone looking for full RGB color at 4K60 on a TV should try to find one without HDCP 2.2 and hopefully using another chip, if this is the case.

I don't believe that HDCP cares about 4:4:4 vs. 4:2:0. However the limited bandwidth implementations of HDMI 2.0 simply cannot support the data rates necessary for 4K video using 4:4:4 except at 24Hz and 30Hz. Silicon Image (SI) has just started shipping their new Sil 9777 full bandwidth (i.e., 18 Gbps) HDMI 2.0 chip with HDCP 2.2. This should be able to support 4:4:4 for 4K@60, but even then only as long as the bit-depth is only 8-bits per color. At higher bit depths you will be limited to 4:2:2 (at 12-bit depth) or 4:2:0 (at 16-bit depth).

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post #400 of 403 Old 11-16-2014, 02:22 PM
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Does anyone know of an inexpensive plasma or LCD that's at least 60" that supports 4:4:4?

In particular I am interested in the LG 60PB5600. Also, if someone is familiar with these, I am wondering if they have image retention problems when used with computers. I am looking for an inexpensive large television for some light gaming and presentation use to replace a projector in a small classroom. It is not a problem for the lights to be dimmed so I am not worried about the brightness of the panel.

Thanks
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post #401 of 403 Old 11-16-2014, 04:46 PM
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which of .... LG 32ls3400 or LG 42ls3400 has
4:4:4 chroma mapping ?



thanx
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post #402 of 403 Old Yesterday, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post
I don't believe that HDCP cares about 4:4:4 vs. 4:2:0. However the limited bandwidth implementations of HDMI 2.0 simply cannot support the data rates necessary for 4K video using 4:4:4 except at 24Hz and 30Hz. Silicon Image (SI) has just started shipping their new Sil 9777 full bandwidth (i.e., 18 Gbps) HDMI 2.0 chip with HDCP 2.2. This should be able to support 4:4:4 for 4K@60, but even then only as long as the bit-depth is only 8-bits per color. At higher bit depths you will be limited to 4:2:2 (at 12-bit depth) or 4:2:0 (at 16-bit depth).
I have to say that HDMI 2.0 is pretty much a total disaster as far as I'm concerned. All I care about is PC (Primarily games) use so the lack of Displayport makes pretty much all of these TVs useless to me. Bring on Displayport 1.3 with Freesync, the TV manufacturers really missed out on an opportunity to kill the monitor market.
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post #403 of 403 Old Yesterday, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastuch View Post
I have to say that HDMI 2.0 is pretty much a total disaster as far as I'm concerned. All I care about is PC (Primarily games) use so the lack of Displayport makes pretty much all of these TVs useless to me. Bring on Displayport 1.3 with Freesync, the TV manufacturers really missed out on an opportunity to kill the monitor market.
Panasonic's AX800 and AX900 have DisplayPort 1.2a.
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