Official 4:4:4 / Chroma Subsampling Thread - Page 15 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #421 of 434 Old 01-31-2015, 05:19 PM
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I'm an animation professional looking to get a larger HDTV for my workstation, mainly to preview work on instead of my existing 27" monitor. I was hoping someone here could make some recommendations, with input lag, colour accuracy, and overall image sharpness being the main concerns. (good PC gaming performance is always a plus) I'm looking for something around 38 - 42" in size. The workstation is a Windows PC with an EVGA GeForce GTX 680.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
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post #422 of 434 Old 02-21-2015, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthehunter View Post
Bought an LG, 42LB5600 for PC use only. Input lag said to be 27ms (rating: Great). I wasn't 100% sure what to expect based on various forums and reviews, but wasn't expecting that the "experience" to be that great...don't know why.


Connected via HDMI (PC)-to-HDMI1 (HDTV); graphics card is an Asus, STRIX GTX970, running 344.48 drivers. Labeled input (HDMI-1) "PC" and set NVidia (audio) to LG. Very impressed with this sub-$400 set. Text is exceptionally clear.


4:4:4 chroma = YES
Hi? Selecting the resolution 2560x1440 (downsampling) the desktop you see well?
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post #423 of 434 Old 02-22-2015, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm Sutherland View Post
I'm an animation professional looking to get a larger HDTV for my workstation, mainly to preview work on instead of my existing 27" monitor. I was hoping someone here could make some recommendations, with input lag, colour accuracy, and overall image sharpness being the main concerns. (good PC gaming performance is always a plus) I'm looking for something around 38 - 42" in size. The workstation is a Windows PC with an EVGA GeForce GTX 680.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Other than the size the Panasonic ax800 fits the bill perfectly. I use one as a monitor and the image quality and latency are both superb.
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post #424 of 434 Old 04-01-2015, 05:00 PM
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I don't get it. This thread was started in 2011 but no cards have supported 4:4:4 chroma until recently.
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post #425 of 434 Old 04-05-2015, 03:40 PM
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I am looking for a relatively inexpensive 32 inch 1080P tv to purchase for use as a monitor. 444 capable with low lag. All the others mentioned so far are so old they are no longer available, or the latest and greatest 3D or new higher def.
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post #426 of 434 Old 04-05-2015, 03:45 PM
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You know, there are actual 32" 1080p monitors nowadays:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...CE&PageSize=30

Such sizes at only 1080p seem to be designed in mind for digital signage though, so it doesn't look like they typically come with a stand.

With a higher resolution like 1440p or more, you can get an actual true monitor at such a size:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...55%20600338096

Last edited by NintendoManiac64; 04-05-2015 at 03:49 PM.
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post #427 of 434 Old 04-06-2015, 08:04 AM
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Thank you, but these are not inexpensive compared to TV's. All I won't are some are some examples of TV's that offer 444 and fairly low lag, in the area of 32inches. BTW how come everybody keeps talking about LCD when all the new TV's with bright images are LED displays?
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post #428 of 434 Old 04-06-2015, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchell Ted View Post
Thank you, but these are not inexpensive compared to TV's.
Well, "inexpensive" is very reletive. Consider that my current 39" 1080p 2013-model HDTV was $350, which cost moderately less than than the 27" 2000-model Trinitron CRT it replaced.


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BTW how come everybody keeps talking about LCD when all the new TV's with bright images are LED displays?
...because LED TVs are LCD TVs - the LED purely refers to the backlight (traditional LCDs used CCFL backlights); this also applies to quantum dot as well - it's an LCD display with a different backlight.

It's OLED that is a completely different display technology - each pixel is self-emitting so it doesn't even have a backlight.

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post #429 of 434 Old 04-09-2015, 12:22 PM
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Question

Has anyone tested the Vizio m322i-b1 for Chroma? A guide (which I can't say) lists it as one of the best HDTVs for gaming. Any comments?
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post #430 of 434 Old 04-17-2015, 10:01 PM
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Does the DM65USR take in 4k@ 60Hz at 4:4:4 chroma, 8 bit?
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post #431 of 434 Old 05-17-2015, 07:36 AM
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Anyone got an info if the LG 32LF6300 & LG 42LF550A support 4:4:4 color sample?
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post #432 of 434 Old Today, 01:10 PM
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As a guy who makes PC and console games, I have to disagree with the assessment that PC games are somehow inherently more averse to using 420 or 422 chroma subsampling compared to console games.

First off, the faster your frame rate, and the higher the base resolution, the less you can notice it. Secondly, if you're even worried about 444 at all, it's because you're buying a TV and want to use it as a computer monitor for windows desktop use. That's NOT the same as when you fire up a videogame. LCD monitors are everywhere, if you want to type text, use one. Use a TV to game on. But PC games are if anything LESS susceptible to chroma subsampling, because again, the faster frame rate. Many console games run at 1080p / 30 fps and PC titles are all above 60+. If you're talking about UHD resolution, again, the difference between 444 and 420 is very minor and probably not noticeable at all during fast action.

On windows desktop, yes, you want 444 chroma. In games? No. Not PC games, not console games, not movies. Not even static images are easily double-blinded.

The big issue right now is wide color and HDR TVs, which can't be used with 444 at 60hz because HDMI 2 can't manage it. DP 1.2 can do 10 bits /444 at UHD / 60, which is at least capable of doing the base HDR spec without subsampling.

However, I think people here are seriously nitpicking, if you think Dolby Vision at UHD / 60 is going to suck because it's forced to be at 422 instead of 444, you guys have no idea about what attracts the human eye and what's a worthwhile choice when you have a tradeoff.

There is another error on the first page, and that's that 420 at 25mbps would be 100 if at 444, that's wrong. It would be 50. 420 is exactly half (total) bits per frame as the equivalent 444 frame. The math is even elaborated further down in the OP page. 422 is 2/3rds, so you can increase the bit depth by 50% to get back to 3/3. This is why you can fit either 8 bits / 444 or 12 bits / 420 at UHD 60 over HDMI 2.0.

422 / 12 bits, especially with HDR, is going to look all kinds of awesome. It's ultra HD, your chroma subsample at that res is higher than 1080p (for 422).

It's hard to tell the difference between 1080p and UHD at more than a couple feet away from the TV, let alone UHD luma but with 1080p chroma channels.

But it's very easy to tell between SDR and HDR, and 10-bits or 12-bits for color instead of nasty 8 bits with all the banding and reduced gamut. There are plenty of colors like neons and deep reds that you literally cannot see with 8 bit typical color spaces like rec 709 compared to DCI P3 which is common this year.
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post #433 of 434 Old Today, 01:15 PM
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It should be noted that the console comments were made back with the previous generation of consoles where most games rendered at 720p and lower.
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post #434 of 434 Unread Today, 09:12 PM
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I've been reading all the reviews of various TVs and monitors over at hardforum, and they even showed side by side screenshots of GTA V at 444 and 422 and to my mind, 422 looked better. (some people there agreed as well, it's a pseudo AA effect around the edges). It does make the overall image slightly less sharp and defined not at the edges, but until we get the option of 10 or 12 bit displays at 444 (UHD / 60), I don't see any reason to spend tons of cash on an HDR TV or one with a 10-bit panel if you're not going to use it. For those who are stubborn and won't even engage deep color during fullscreen games, or HDR for that matter, they're better off with a sub 1k TV with 444.

There's a Seiki coming out soon with DP 1.3 and a 12 bit VA panel that can actually be accessed at 444 UHD / 60 (or above, presumably. Maybe even 120hz). I wonder if they would have the sense to actually have picked a dp 1.3 scaler with adaptive sync on it. If it has that, I'm buying it for sure. That would be so killed, even without HDR. A 12 bit panel with 444 and 120hz AND freesync? sign me up.

But for anything with HDMI 2.0, PC gamers are going to run into a brick wall of bandwidth limits, forcing them to choose 422 to get HDR or wide color gamut, or 444 and stick to 8 bits. I'd stick to 444 for desktop and text, then engage 12 bit color and HDR for games. Pretty sure anyone who's not wool-headed will eventually do that as well. HDR makes resolution look that much better, and going up to 12 bits is going to be all kinds of awesome for color reproduction. Imagine playing Blood Dragon on a display that can actually reproduce real neon colors.

There are some ways in code to force a display to output to the TV exactly what you want, without the graphics card fudging it up, in the form of encrypted HDCP frame buffers. In those, meant for Bluray software players, you can write into a 420 or 422 YCbCr (8, 10, 12, or 16 bits), and have the videocard output it directly without having to convert it to RGB first, then back downsampled for output to the TV (to maintain deep color at UHD / 60, for example), then re-upsampled again which seems like it would cause a lot of artifacts going up and down and up in resolution like that, multiple times. Better to just send it directly to the TV in 422 in 10 or 12 bits (30 / 36 bit deep color) and let the TV do its best with that. IF you have a TV that has either wide color or HDR or a 10+ bit panel.

I'm very excited about this new Seiki though. Because even the current 1080p consoles can output deep color and HDR, and that's where these new 2015 TVs are going to really start showing their stuff.
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