Official Sharp AQUOS LC-60LE847U & LC-70LE847U Owners Thread - Page 7 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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LCD Flat Panel Displays

topr's Avatar topr
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post #181 of 2670
04-18-2012 | Posts: 1,627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidclevy View Post

What is a reasonable amount of break-in time before calibrating?

For an LCD...none. Turn it on and by the time you are through the initial setup and check for any obvious uniformity issues you're good to go for calibration.
CGGorman's Avatar CGGorman
09:41 AM Liked: 11
post #182 of 2670
04-18-2012 | Posts: 177
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My personal preference is to give any new electronic item a couple weeks of heat cycling to work out any infant mortality problems before making critical judgements. Solid state audio stuff like AVRs don't seem to change to my ear, but most good speakers need some drive time (my Audax drivers took a couple hundred) to loosen up the surrounds and most video displays use phosphors of some type that can change early in life. LED is no exception. The white light is created by excited by near-uv light coming off the diode. LED light characteristics are measurably affected by temperature and my testing has shown a significant reduction in heat production after a break in period. The 5W diodes in a large fixture I built took a couple weeks of burning and cycling to settle in.
topr's Avatar topr
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post #183 of 2670
04-18-2012 | Posts: 1,627
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From the point getting a lemon only to have your display fail after a calibration, I would agree with waiting for a month or so, especially if you are paying for an ISF calibration.
As to davidclevy's question, what level of calibration are we talking? I think most professional calibrators will tell you there is some drift, lets say after 6 months, but it's not discernible to the human eye. If you're considering DIY using a calibration disc IMO, there's really no reason to wait.
CGGorman's Avatar CGGorman
11:37 AM Liked: 11
post #184 of 2670
04-18-2012 | Posts: 177
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I ran thru a quick i1profiler and thought I'd post a few rough numbers...

This was very quick and dirty...but...

Maximum light output was 40 fL with 120 Hz drive. It dropped to 25 fL in 240 Hz mode.

I didn't measure minimum output, but the software reported about 1700:1 native contrast with backlight set to 35 fL and contrast/brightness set properly.

"Low" color temp measured about 6600 K. The rest were so obscenely blue that I didn't note the measurements.

35 fL on this screen size at 13 feet in a dark room is blinding. I'm going to drop it to 25-30 and try again.

That's all I got so far.
topr's Avatar topr
11:53 AM Liked: 18
post #185 of 2670
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^cool...do you have the means to measure MLL?
CGGorman's Avatar CGGorman
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post #186 of 2670
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Yes..assuming MLL is minimum light output.
curiousdude's Avatar curiousdude
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post #187 of 2670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGGorman View Post

I ran thru a quick i1profiler and thought I'd post a few rough numbers...

This was very quick and dirty...but...

Maximum light output was 40 fL with 120 Hz drive. It dropped to 25 fL in 240 Hz mode.

I didn't measure minimum output, but the software reported about 1700:1 native contrast with backlight set to 35 fL and contrast/brightness set properly.

"Low" color temp measured about 6600 K. The rest were so obscenely blue that I didn't note the measurements.

35 fL on this screen size at 13 feet in a dark room is blinding. I'm going to drop it to 25-30 and try again.

That's all I got so far.


I have no clue what these numbers mean. Is 25 fl in 240 hz a good thing? Isn't 1700:1 native contrast low?
CGGorman's Avatar CGGorman
12:55 PM Liked: 11
post #188 of 2670
04-18-2012 | Posts: 177
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fL is the abbreviation for footlambert, a measurement of brightness. Often times you see a recommendation for. 50-60 fL for a bright room down to as little as 20 or less for a total dark room.

The 120/240 Hz refers to the motion enhancement or refresh rate of the panel.

Manufacturers are reporting essentially made-up contrast numbers. There is not really an industry standard yet, so they just make up new ways to measure it such that they can report a bigger number than the competition. Think back to amplifier power ratings before RMS standards were agreed to and enforced. 1700:1 is actually quite good.
topr's Avatar topr
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post #189 of 2670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGGorman View Post

Yes..assuming MLL is minimum light output.

yes...would be great to know once you finally get your display dialed in. Really curious to know how the larger edge lit displays perform in terms of black levels.
CGGorman's Avatar CGGorman
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post #190 of 2670
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The math shows the minimum last night was around .07 Cd/m2, but I didn't directly read the meter's output. Ill try to get an ANSI measurement tonight.
TagsDad's Avatar TagsDad
02:10 PM Liked: 10
post #191 of 2670
04-18-2012 | Posts: 29
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Wow, I'm learning so much from you guys -- so glad I started reading here.

There's one issue bothering me that I can't seem to resolve: Figuring out which model to buy from Costco, Best Buy, or online (i.e. Paul's via Amazon). Or are they really all the same?

Amazon lists the 60LE847U model although it is difficult to compare sellers since they all seem to have their own product page. Has Quad Pixel Plus 2 and natively 240Hz (apparently).

Costco lists the 60LE847OU which appears to swap native 240Hz for Aquomotion 480 as an option (as well as Aquomotion 240) -- however, it comes with two 3D glasses and charging cable and Costco's extended warranty and square trade super extended warranty for purchase. Can't see any reference to Quad Pixel Plus 2 though.

The 60LE845U that Best Buy sells and is on the Sharp website does not advertise Quad Pixel Plus 2, but it claims to be 240Hz natively. Special going on now that provides two pair of Sharp 3D glasses also.

So, for those of you who own any of the above (different?) models, can you discuss their differences and whether any variation has an edge over another?

I greatly appreciate any help.

Thanks,
John
CGGorman's Avatar CGGorman
02:42 PM Liked: 11
post #192 of 2670
04-18-2012 | Posts: 177
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Don't rule out our forum sponsor Cleveland Plasma. Give them a call and see what they can do to earn your business. I bet you wont be disappointed.
TagsDad's Avatar TagsDad
03:17 PM Liked: 10
post #193 of 2670
04-18-2012 | Posts: 29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGGorman View Post

Don't rule out our forum sponsor Cleveland Plasma. Give them a call and see what they can do to earn your business. I bet you wont be disappointed.

Will do. Now about the question at hand....


CGGorman's Avatar CGGorman
03:21 PM Liked: 11
post #194 of 2670
04-18-2012 | Posts: 177
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There is no real-world difference between the 845 and 847. The difference between the various motion enhancements is virtually indistinguishable, (in my opinion)
okmiller's Avatar okmiller
03:34 PM Liked: 10
post #195 of 2670
04-18-2012 | Posts: 7
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John,
I am in the same situation. I have been looking at the 60/70 847 at BJ's and these have a slightly different number 60/70C8470U - they appear to have the same specs as the LE models. Our 56 inch Samsung dlp is acting up. We have replaced the lamp and color wheel but lately it turns off on its own for no apparent reason. Wife has blessed the purchase of a 70, but I don't know how long that offer is on the table. The 70 will be a nice upgrade from the dlp (not 1080p).
Mike
curiousdude's Avatar curiousdude
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post #196 of 2670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGGorman View Post

fL is the abbreviation for footlambert, a measurement of brightness. Often times you see a recommendation for. 50-60 fL for a bright room down to as little as 20 or less for a total dark room.

The 120/240 Hz refers to the motion enhancement or refresh rate of the panel.

Manufacturers are reporting essentially made-up contrast numbers. There is not really an industry standard yet, so they just make up new ways to measure it such that they can report a bigger number than the competition. Think back to amplifier power ratings before RMS standards were agreed to and enforced. 1700:1 is actually quite good.

Thanks for the explanation :-). Looking forward to your ANSI measurement.
mstuckart's Avatar mstuckart
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post #197 of 2670
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As far as I've been able to decipher and as Chris from Cleveland plasma asserted the 845u and 847u are essentially identical, the 845u just appears to be a best buy exclusive and the 847u is for everyone else.
Normandee's Avatar Normandee
04:29 AM Liked: 10
post #198 of 2670
04-19-2012 | Posts: 30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGGorman View Post

847 is edge-lit. Check www.sharp.ca (Canada). Their site has all the current models.

Thanks buddy, will take a look at the specs. Anyone know why Sharp have gone edge lit instead of continuing with full back lit - production costs ????
Normandee's Avatar Normandee
04:37 AM Liked: 10
post #199 of 2670
04-19-2012 | Posts: 30
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Hey CGG,

Would you mind posting up daytime and evening viewing setting when you done tweaking ?

My Sammy 58 is set for either daytime (adjusted Standard mode) and evening (adjusted Movie mode).

I'm considering the LC70LE836E or the 80 inched when I get back to the UK.

Regards
Fastslappy's Avatar Fastslappy
05:00 AM Liked: 753
post #200 of 2670
04-19-2012 | Posts: 6,775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Normandee View Post

Thanks buddy, will take a look at the specs. Anyone know why Sharp have gone edge lit instead of continuing with full back lit - production costs ????

it's cheaper to produce edge lighted LED displays,takes less LEDs, less wiring,lower production cost, easier assembly.
AND they are also fashionable as well , being this thin, High WAF .
CGGorman's Avatar CGGorman
01:27 PM Liked: 11
post #201 of 2670
04-19-2012 | Posts: 177
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Interesting for the tech mind... http://globaldisplayengineering.com/...ightguides.php
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar Cleveland Plasma
02:05 PM Liked: 764
post #202 of 2670
04-19-2012 | Posts: 12,630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstuckart View Post

As far as I've been able to decipher and as Chris from Cleveland plasma asserted the 845u and 847u are essentially identical, the 845u just appears to be a best buy exclusive and the 847u is for everyone else.

Correct........
TagsDad's Avatar TagsDad
02:44 PM Liked: 10
post #203 of 2670
04-19-2012 | Posts: 29
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Excellent. Thanks, Chris!
CGGorman's Avatar CGGorman
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post #204 of 2670
04-20-2012 | Posts: 177
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My kids were gone last night, so I spent some quality time tinkering with the TV.

I probably shouldn't even post these numbers they are so rough at this point, but why not? They are a dramatic improvement over basic adjustments... I also have some general info numbers for those interested.

First, the settings (incomplete and rough)

Model: LC-70LE847U
AV Mode: Movie
DARK ROOM

Backlight: -4
Contrast: 38
Brightness: 1
Color: 10
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0
Gamut: Standard
Color Temp: Low
Gamma: +2
All other features turned OFF

CMS
HUE
R -6
Y +4
G -11
C +4
B -21
M +3

SATURATION
R +4
Y 0
G -8
C -14
B +20
M -4

VALUE
R -6
Y 0
G 0
C +1
B -18
M -3

(NO GRAYSCALE AT THIS TIME)
(END)

It was 1 am by the time I got that far and 2 am before finishing a quick reality check with scenes from The Dark Knight and Top Gear 18 (UK). The image is much easier on the eyes. Literally. Less eye strain. Brighter, better depth and definition, skin tone skewed a bit red and colors perhaps a bit vivid for some tastes, though not garish like a preset. I think I would call it tastefully dramatic, like a HDR photo.

Clouding is essentially gone. I couldn't see it at all during normal viewing even BEFORE these adjustments, but now I have to look for it to find it even during credits and the POST screen when the PC boots. It was helped somewhat by a good screen massage with a microfiber cloth damped with RO water. Settings did the rest. I suspect that as the set ages and the crystals and panels settle the clouding will disappear entirely.


Here begins the boring numbers section for the nerds...

Before the CMS adjustments above, I took a series of luminance readings from a 100% grey (white) window. I went from setting value 0 to +16 and luminance reading increased roughly 1 fL with each step starting at setting 0 = 19 fL and ending at setting +16 = 33 fL. AFTER the CMS measurements I took the same series of measurements and found a roughly 2 fL increase per step starting at setting 0 = 41 fL and ending at setting +16 = 70 fL. (Setting -8 = 14 fL, setting -4 = 33 fL).

I took minimum luminance measurements twice. Once with the backlight set to max (70 fL) and once with it set to -4 (33fL). before each measurement, I rechecked the brightness and contrast settings. This returned results of .0236fL and .0113fL respectively. These are NOT cheated numbers. This was a proper checkerboard pattern. That works out to a 2955:1 contrast ratio with my dark room settings. i1Profiler reports the native contrast ratio at 2806:1, so we are not far off.

I measured all the gamma presets prior to making any adjustments and was surprised to find the Sharp leans HEAVILY toward the darker contrasty end of the range. Being presets, these are rough averages as the "curve" isn't "straight":

Stock Gamma:
Setting +2 = 2.2
Setting +1 = 2.3
Setting 0 = 2.4
Setting -1 = 2.5
Setting -2 = 2.7



That's all I got for now folks. Depending on when my kids get back tonight, I may work thru the gamma and grayscale...or it may have to wait until monday...
maximuslcd's Avatar maximuslcd
11:52 AM Liked: 10
post #205 of 2670
04-20-2012 | Posts: 1,934
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CG-Gorman

Glad your not too far away so you can come by and tweak mine when I get it. On another note I am a railroad contractor and have a customer in Van Wert, actually got a call from them today needing some work done so I'll be heading there next week to have a look at it! it's a small world
CGGorman's Avatar CGGorman
01:15 PM Liked: 11
post #206 of 2670
04-20-2012 | Posts: 177
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Chad B is also not an obscene drive away. Cleveland. I'm a hobbyist. He's a Pro.
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar Cleveland Plasma
06:49 PM Liked: 764
post #207 of 2670
04-20-2012 | Posts: 12,630
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Chad is in Piqua, OH just so you know

The nice thing is, you will finally get to see how good you really are. Once chad is done you will know for sure........
CGGorman's Avatar CGGorman
06:52 PM Liked: 11
post #208 of 2670
04-20-2012 | Posts: 177
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He still hasn't got back with me...
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar Cleveland Plasma
06:55 PM Liked: 764
post #209 of 2670
04-20-2012 | Posts: 12,630
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Hit him up again, I know he just wrote 3 reviews in 3 days and they take about 6 hours each he said on average.......
CGGorman's Avatar CGGorman
07:09 PM Liked: 11
post #210 of 2670
04-20-2012 | Posts: 177
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Will do.
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