Official Sharp AQUOS LC-60LE847U & LC-70LE847U Owners Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-18-2012, 08:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
topr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,625
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidclevy View Post

What is a reasonable amount of break-in time before calibrating?

For an LCD...none. Turn it on and by the time you are through the initial setup and check for any obvious uniformity issues you're good to go for calibration.
topr is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-18-2012, 09:41 AM
Member
 
CGGorman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Van Wert, OH
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
My personal preference is to give any new electronic item a couple weeks of heat cycling to work out any infant mortality problems before making critical judgements. Solid state audio stuff like AVRs don't seem to change to my ear, but most good speakers need some drive time (my Audax drivers took a couple hundred) to loosen up the surrounds and most video displays use phosphors of some type that can change early in life. LED is no exception. The white light is created by excited by near-uv light coming off the diode. LED light characteristics are measurably affected by temperature and my testing has shown a significant reduction in heat production after a break in period. The 5W diodes in a large fixture I built took a couple weeks of burning and cycling to settle in.
CGGorman is offline  
Old 04-18-2012, 10:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
topr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,625
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 18
From the point getting a lemon only to have your display fail after a calibration, I would agree with waiting for a month or so, especially if you are paying for an ISF calibration.
As to davidclevy's question, what level of calibration are we talking? I think most professional calibrators will tell you there is some drift, lets say after 6 months, but it's not discernible to the human eye. If you're considering DIY using a calibration disc IMO, there's really no reason to wait.
topr is offline  
Old 04-18-2012, 11:37 AM
Member
 
CGGorman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Van Wert, OH
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I ran thru a quick i1profiler and thought I'd post a few rough numbers...

This was very quick and dirty...but...

Maximum light output was 40 fL with 120 Hz drive. It dropped to 25 fL in 240 Hz mode.

I didn't measure minimum output, but the software reported about 1700:1 native contrast with backlight set to 35 fL and contrast/brightness set properly.

"Low" color temp measured about 6600 K. The rest were so obscenely blue that I didn't note the measurements.

35 fL on this screen size at 13 feet in a dark room is blinding. I'm going to drop it to 25-30 and try again.

That's all I got so far.
CGGorman is offline  
Old 04-18-2012, 11:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
topr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,625
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 18
^cool...do you have the means to measure MLL?
topr is offline  
Old 04-18-2012, 11:59 AM
Member
 
CGGorman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Van Wert, OH
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Yes..assuming MLL is minimum light output.
CGGorman is offline  
Old 04-18-2012, 12:17 PM
Member
 
curiousdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 145
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGGorman View Post

I ran thru a quick i1profiler and thought I'd post a few rough numbers...

This was very quick and dirty...but...

Maximum light output was 40 fL with 120 Hz drive. It dropped to 25 fL in 240 Hz mode.

I didn't measure minimum output, but the software reported about 1700:1 native contrast with backlight set to 35 fL and contrast/brightness set properly.

"Low" color temp measured about 6600 K. The rest were so obscenely blue that I didn't note the measurements.

35 fL on this screen size at 13 feet in a dark room is blinding. I'm going to drop it to 25-30 and try again.

That's all I got so far.


I have no clue what these numbers mean. Is 25 fl in 240 hz a good thing? Isn't 1700:1 native contrast low?
curiousdude is offline  
Old 04-18-2012, 12:55 PM
Member
 
CGGorman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Van Wert, OH
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
fL is the abbreviation for footlambert, a measurement of brightness. Often times you see a recommendation for. 50-60 fL for a bright room down to as little as 20 or less for a total dark room.

The 120/240 Hz refers to the motion enhancement or refresh rate of the panel.

Manufacturers are reporting essentially made-up contrast numbers. There is not really an industry standard yet, so they just make up new ways to measure it such that they can report a bigger number than the competition. Think back to amplifier power ratings before RMS standards were agreed to and enforced. 1700:1 is actually quite good.
CGGorman is offline  
Old 04-18-2012, 01:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
topr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,625
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGGorman View Post

Yes..assuming MLL is minimum light output.

yes...would be great to know once you finally get your display dialed in. Really curious to know how the larger edge lit displays perform in terms of black levels.
topr is offline  
Old 04-18-2012, 01:11 PM
Member
 
CGGorman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Van Wert, OH
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
The math shows the minimum last night was around .07 Cd/m2, but I didn't directly read the meter's output. Ill try to get an ANSI measurement tonight.
CGGorman is offline  
Old 04-18-2012, 02:10 PM
Member
 
TagsDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Wow, I'm learning so much from you guys -- so glad I started reading here.

There's one issue bothering me that I can't seem to resolve: Figuring out which model to buy from Costco, Best Buy, or online (i.e. Paul's via Amazon). Or are they really all the same?

Amazon lists the 60LE847U model although it is difficult to compare sellers since they all seem to have their own product page. Has Quad Pixel Plus 2 and natively 240Hz (apparently).

Costco lists the 60LE847OU which appears to swap native 240Hz for Aquomotion 480 as an option (as well as Aquomotion 240) -- however, it comes with two 3D glasses and charging cable and Costco's extended warranty and square trade super extended warranty for purchase. Can't see any reference to Quad Pixel Plus 2 though.

The 60LE845U that Best Buy sells and is on the Sharp website does not advertise Quad Pixel Plus 2, but it claims to be 240Hz natively. Special going on now that provides two pair of Sharp 3D glasses also.

So, for those of you who own any of the above (different?) models, can you discuss their differences and whether any variation has an edge over another?

I greatly appreciate any help.

Thanks,
John
TagsDad is offline  
Old 04-18-2012, 02:42 PM
Member
 
CGGorman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Van Wert, OH
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Don't rule out our forum sponsor Cleveland Plasma. Give them a call and see what they can do to earn your business. I bet you wont be disappointed.
CGGorman is offline  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:17 PM
Member
 
TagsDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGGorman View Post

Don't rule out our forum sponsor Cleveland Plasma. Give them a call and see what they can do to earn your business. I bet you wont be disappointed.

Will do. Now about the question at hand....

TagsDad is offline  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:21 PM
Member
 
CGGorman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Van Wert, OH
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
There is no real-world difference between the 845 and 847. The difference between the various motion enhancements is virtually indistinguishable, (in my opinion)
CGGorman is offline  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:34 PM
Newbie
 
okmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
John,
I am in the same situation. I have been looking at the 60/70 847 at BJ's and these have a slightly different number 60/70C8470U - they appear to have the same specs as the LE models. Our 56 inch Samsung dlp is acting up. We have replaced the lamp and color wheel but lately it turns off on its own for no apparent reason. Wife has blessed the purchase of a 70, but I don't know how long that offer is on the table. The 70 will be a nice upgrade from the dlp (not 1080p).
Mike
okmiller is offline  
Old 04-18-2012, 05:56 PM
Member
 
curiousdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 145
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGGorman View Post

fL is the abbreviation for footlambert, a measurement of brightness. Often times you see a recommendation for. 50-60 fL for a bright room down to as little as 20 or less for a total dark room.

The 120/240 Hz refers to the motion enhancement or refresh rate of the panel.

Manufacturers are reporting essentially made-up contrast numbers. There is not really an industry standard yet, so they just make up new ways to measure it such that they can report a bigger number than the competition. Think back to amplifier power ratings before RMS standards were agreed to and enforced. 1700:1 is actually quite good.

Thanks for the explanation :-). Looking forward to your ANSI measurement.
curiousdude is offline  
Old 04-18-2012, 06:17 PM
Newbie
 
mstuckart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Kingston, ON, Canada
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
As far as I've been able to decipher and as Chris from Cleveland plasma asserted the 845u and 847u are essentially identical, the 845u just appears to be a best buy exclusive and the 847u is for everyone else.
mstuckart is offline  
Old 04-19-2012, 04:29 AM
Member
 
Normandee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chichester, West Sussex, England
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGGorman View Post

847 is edge-lit. Check www.sharp.ca (Canada). Their site has all the current models.

Thanks buddy, will take a look at the specs. Anyone know why Sharp have gone edge lit instead of continuing with full back lit - production costs ????
Normandee is offline  
Old 04-19-2012, 04:37 AM
Member
 
Normandee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chichester, West Sussex, England
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey CGG,

Would you mind posting up daytime and evening viewing setting when you done tweaking ?

My Sammy 58 is set for either daytime (adjusted Standard mode) and evening (adjusted Movie mode).

I'm considering the LC70LE836E or the 80 inched when I get back to the UK.

Regards
Normandee is offline  
Old 04-19-2012, 05:00 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Fastslappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: La CasaSlappy @ SlappyVille,SF NorthBay,CALI
Posts: 6,775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Normandee View Post

Thanks buddy, will take a look at the specs. Anyone know why Sharp have gone edge lit instead of continuing with full back lit - production costs ????

it's cheaper to produce edge lighted LED displays,takes less LEDs, less wiring,lower production cost, easier assembly.
AND they are also fashionable as well , being this thin, High WAF .

Mike

JAZZ IS NOT DEAD IT JUST SMELLS FUNNY ; FRANK ZAPPA
Fastslappy is offline  
Old 04-19-2012, 01:27 PM
Member
 
CGGorman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Van Wert, OH
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
CGGorman is offline  
Old 04-19-2012, 02:05 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 12,411
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstuckart View Post

As far as I've been able to decipher and as Chris from Cleveland plasma asserted the 845u and 847u are essentially identical, the 845u just appears to be a best buy exclusive and the 847u is for everyone else.

Correct........
Cleveland Plasma is offline  
Old 04-19-2012, 02:44 PM
Member
 
TagsDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Excellent. Thanks, Chris!
TagsDad is offline  
Old 04-20-2012, 08:33 AM
Member
 
CGGorman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Van Wert, OH
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
My kids were gone last night, so I spent some quality time tinkering with the TV.

I probably shouldn't even post these numbers they are so rough at this point, but why not? They are a dramatic improvement over basic adjustments... I also have some general info numbers for those interested.

First, the settings (incomplete and rough)

Model: LC-70LE847U
AV Mode: Movie
DARK ROOM

Backlight: -4
Contrast: 38
Brightness: 1
Color: 10
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0
Gamut: Standard
Color Temp: Low
Gamma: +2
All other features turned OFF

CMS
HUE
R -6
Y +4
G -11
C +4
B -21
M +3

SATURATION
R +4
Y 0
G -8
C -14
B +20
M -4

VALUE
R -6
Y 0
G 0
C +1
B -18
M -3

(NO GRAYSCALE AT THIS TIME)
(END)

It was 1 am by the time I got that far and 2 am before finishing a quick reality check with scenes from The Dark Knight and Top Gear 18 (UK). The image is much easier on the eyes. Literally. Less eye strain. Brighter, better depth and definition, skin tone skewed a bit red and colors perhaps a bit vivid for some tastes, though not garish like a preset. I think I would call it tastefully dramatic, like a HDR photo.

Clouding is essentially gone. I couldn't see it at all during normal viewing even BEFORE these adjustments, but now I have to look for it to find it even during credits and the POST screen when the PC boots. It was helped somewhat by a good screen massage with a microfiber cloth damped with RO water. Settings did the rest. I suspect that as the set ages and the crystals and panels settle the clouding will disappear entirely.


Here begins the boring numbers section for the nerds...

Before the CMS adjustments above, I took a series of luminance readings from a 100% grey (white) window. I went from setting value 0 to +16 and luminance reading increased roughly 1 fL with each step starting at setting 0 = 19 fL and ending at setting +16 = 33 fL. AFTER the CMS measurements I took the same series of measurements and found a roughly 2 fL increase per step starting at setting 0 = 41 fL and ending at setting +16 = 70 fL. (Setting -8 = 14 fL, setting -4 = 33 fL).

I took minimum luminance measurements twice. Once with the backlight set to max (70 fL) and once with it set to -4 (33fL). before each measurement, I rechecked the brightness and contrast settings. This returned results of .0236fL and .0113fL respectively. These are NOT cheated numbers. This was a proper checkerboard pattern. That works out to a 2955:1 contrast ratio with my dark room settings. i1Profiler reports the native contrast ratio at 2806:1, so we are not far off.

I measured all the gamma presets prior to making any adjustments and was surprised to find the Sharp leans HEAVILY toward the darker contrasty end of the range. Being presets, these are rough averages as the "curve" isn't "straight":

Stock Gamma:
Setting +2 = 2.2
Setting +1 = 2.3
Setting 0 = 2.4
Setting -1 = 2.5
Setting -2 = 2.7



That's all I got for now folks. Depending on when my kids get back tonight, I may work thru the gamma and grayscale...or it may have to wait until monday...
CGGorman is offline  
Old 04-20-2012, 11:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
maximuslcd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,934
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
CG-Gorman

Glad your not too far away so you can come by and tweak mine when I get it. On another note I am a railroad contractor and have a customer in Van Wert, actually got a call from them today needing some work done so I'll be heading there next week to have a look at it! it's a small world

xbox live GT: xXmaximus prime
PSN: maximus_rr
I have to go, I have a meeting with the bobs, uhhh I wasnt aware of any meeting......yeah they called me at home
maximuslcd is offline  
Old 04-20-2012, 01:15 PM
Member
 
CGGorman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Van Wert, OH
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Chad B is also not an obscene drive away. Cleveland. I'm a hobbyist. He's a Pro.
CGGorman is offline  
Old 04-20-2012, 06:49 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 12,411
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked: 692
Chad is in Piqua, OH just so you know

The nice thing is, you will finally get to see how good you really are. Once chad is done you will know for sure........
Cleveland Plasma is offline  
Old 04-20-2012, 06:52 PM
Member
 
CGGorman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Van Wert, OH
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
He still hasn't got back with me...
CGGorman is offline  
Old 04-20-2012, 06:55 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 12,411
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked: 692
Cleveland Plasma is offline  
Old 04-20-2012, 07:09 PM
Member
 
CGGorman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Van Wert, OH
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
CGGorman is offline  
 

Tags
Sharp , Sharp Aquos Lc60le847u 60 Inch 1080p 240hz 3d 1080p Led Lcd Tv , Led Hdtv , Sharp Lc70le847u 70 Inch 3d Led Tv
Gear in this thread - Lc70le847u by PriceGrabber.com
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off