Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 121 - AVS Forum
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post #3601 of 16222 Old 09-13-2012, 02:28 PM
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Actually there is a way to turn off the logo in the Menu. I have it only on when the set is off. Looks nice and doesn't get in the way of watching TV.
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post #3602 of 16222 Old 09-13-2012, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postalguy View Post

I was using my HR-24 dvr (directv) for Tron. It's starting to look like it might be caused by the lower resolution of the Encore channel that I recorded it from, even though it's HD. I checked some other recordings and on Encore and you can't even read the credits as they scroll because it's like a strobe effect from blinking on and off. Cowboys and Aliens from Cinemax came out much better with only an occasional glich on the credits. Whatever it is, it's really obvious with any vertical movement on the screen. When I would keep hitting the pause during the credits, some times they were normal and other times all blurry and choppy. Looks like it's missing frames or something.
Is there any way to turn off the Samsung logo light at the bottom? I suppose a soundbar would hide it but I'm going with a regular home theater system. The black box the 3d glasses came in is just about the right height to block it for now.

I have the HR-24 hooked up to mine too. I think I understand what you're describing , but I haven't noticed that. Maybe a different Auto Motion Plus setting would work better for your setup, or try it on Custom with Blur Reduction on 10 and Judder on 0. What's your resolution settings on the HR-24? Are you possibly only outputting 1080i? I can say this TV makes it much easier to see compression on satellite/cable.
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post #3603 of 16222 Old 09-13-2012, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

I have the HR-24 hooked up to mine too. I think I understand what you're describing , but I haven't noticed that. Maybe a different Auto Motion Plus setting would work better for your setup, or try it on Custom with Blur Reduction on 10 and Judder on 0. What's your resolution settings on the HR-24? Are you possibly only outputting 1080i? I can say this TV makes it much easier to see compression on satellite/cable.

I checked the HR-24 resolution setting and only the 480i is unchecked. Going to play around with the Blur Reduction and Judder.

Just tried Nitra's Standard settings. While it reduces the soap-opera effect even more, the overall picture loses it's 'wow' appeal and looks too much like my old dpl, dull and lifeless. I toggled back and forth between Standard (Nitra's settings) and Natural (factory settings) while watching Congo on Cinemax just now. Maybe my eyes are too old and tired but Natural appeals to me more for now. Oh well. I do appreciate the settings postings though so I can still go back to them at a later time.

Found out how to turn off the logo light in the settings. It kept distracting me during dark scenes.
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post #3604 of 16222 Old 09-13-2012, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postalguy View Post

I checked the HR-24 resolution setting and only the 480i is unchecked. Going to play around with the Blur Reduction and Judder.
Just tried Nitra's Standard settings. While it reduces the soap-opera effect even more, the overall picture loses it's 'wow' appeal and looks too much like my old dpl, dull and lifeless. I toggled back and forth between Standard (Nitra's settings) and Natural (factory settings) while watching Congo on Cinemax just now. Maybe my eyes are too old and tired but Natural appeals to me more for now. Oh well. I do appreciate the settings postings though so I can still go back to them at a later time.
Found out how to turn off the logo light in the settings. It kept distracting me during dark scenes.

I'm using settings from page 117 that garnoch shared, I like the punch it gives. check it out

and I went threw comparing natural and standard a few week back for awhile. natural has deeper blacks but you loose alot of shade contrast in that mode, it basicly maxes out dynamic contrast.

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post #3605 of 16222 Old 09-13-2012, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony5362 View Post

I think I'm noticing the banding more now. Also the dimming seems worse on this 65" than on my smaller models. Was just watching the walking dead, and it didn't look too great on this TV. Theres another guy on Amazon that received his TV same day as mine and isn't too happy with his. He told me he's looking into the new Sony HX950 now. Grrrr... I don't know if I can deal with a exchange. It's really a pain In the ass.
I do know how ever is that if Samsung doesn't give us any picture improvements with the kit next year, Im going to be really pissed. I have a feeling that all were going to get with the kit is Google TV and a quad core processor.

Too bad to hear that. How bad is banding on your set? I was about to order a 65".

Can you try this video http://www.2shared.com/fadmin/35486601/b41e1d5f/DSE_Test.mp4.html
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post #3606 of 16222 Old 09-13-2012, 05:46 PM
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Guys i have a question, whats the difference between NATURAL and STANDARD mode?

This question is for NITRA, please chime in Nitra, you are using Standard mode right? what do you have the backlight set to for 2D Viewing? for 3D you have it on 12 right?

and the EcoSensor you have set on "Mininum backlight 4" right?
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post #3607 of 16222 Old 09-13-2012, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

Guys i have a question, whats the difference between NATURAL and STANDARD mode?
This question is for NITRA, please chime in Nitra, you are using Standard mode right? what do you have the backlight set to for 2D Viewing? for 3D you have it on 12 right?
and the EcoSensor you have set on "Mininum backlight 4" right?

Nitra you should get paid for this.

Lamon, Nitra re-posted his settings on the previous page (p.60) for all to see (post #3583). There you will find most of your answers

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post #3608 of 16222 Old 09-13-2012, 05:59 PM
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Gamer, Nitra doesn't mention what backlight he uses for 2D viewing, he mentioned in the previous page he uses 12 for 3D, i just want to confirm what backlight he uses for 2D mode.

and i also want to know the difference between NATURAL and STANDARD please.
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post #3609 of 16222 Old 09-13-2012, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postalguy View Post

I checked the HR-24 resolution setting and only the 480i is unchecked. Going to play around with the Blur Reduction and Judder.
Just tried Nitra's Standard settings. While it reduces the soap-opera effect even more, the overall picture loses it's 'wow' appeal and looks too much like my old dpl, dull and lifeless. I toggled back and forth between Standard (Nitra's settings) and Natural (factory settings) while watching Congo on Cinemax just now. Maybe my eyes are too old and tired but Natural appeals to me more for now. Oh well. I do appreciate the settings postings though so I can still go back to them at a later time.
Found out how to turn off the logo light in the settings. It kept distracting me during dark scenes.

Check the front of the unit though to see which mode it's actually outputting. Maybe you're seeing something weird with 720p pictures that are being converted to 1080i in the box (if the front of your box is set to 1080i). I have no idea if that could create what you're seeing, but artifacts in that scenario is possible. Here's what I started doing which I wrote about a few pages ago.....

"Here are a couple things I noticed specifically with my STB. I have DirecTV and noticed that 720p channels looks better with it's outputting 720p but 1080i channels look better when it outputs 1080i, so I made some changes to my DVR. First, I set it to spit out the Native format instead of outputting only one or the other. The initial downside to this is that when it sees a 480i/p picture, it changes all the menus temporality to SD when it switches to that mode. That was terrible. So I then set the DVR so that it thinks my TV will only accept 720p, 1080i or 1080p signals, unchecking 480. Regular TV now looks much better to me.
The other thing was that on 4 x 3 SD pictures from the DVR, I sometimes see the data at the top of the screen, so for only this input, I set the picture size to 16 x 9 instead of Screen Fit."

Now about that 16 x 9 thing. I set it back to Screen Fit because I'd rather deal with the occasional data stream showing at the top of the screen on incorrectly formatted SD video than with the slight degradation in picture quality I was seeing from zooming in on HD.
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post #3610 of 16222 Old 09-13-2012, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

Gamer, Nitra doesn't mention what backlight he uses for 2D viewing, he mentioned in the previous page he uses 12 for 3D, i just want to confirm what backlight he uses for 2D mode.
and i also want to know the difference between NATURAL and STANDARD please.

I'm sure Nitra will get back to you but in case he doesn't... Gamer meant that his Standard settings, which say a backlight of 12, is for 2D. Then on the previous page Nitra replied to you that he also uses 12 for 3D. Unless I misread something.
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post #3611 of 16222 Old 09-13-2012, 06:07 PM
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I have no idea what the built in differences are between Standard and Natural, but Natural looks anything but to me. I can't watch it. Everyone sees differently though. smile.gif
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post #3612 of 16222 Old 09-13-2012, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

Gamer, Nitra doesn't mention what backlight he uses for 2D viewing, he mentioned in the previous page he uses 12 for 3D, i just want to confirm what backlight he uses for 2D mode.
and i also want to know the difference between NATURAL and STANDARD please.

As I stated early its 9. He posted that shortly after he originally posted his calibrated setting.

Natural has very limited adjustments. Surely you can see the difference.

Edit: It may be 7.
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post #3613 of 16222 Old 09-13-2012, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Check the front of the unit though to see which mode it's actually outputting. Maybe you're seeing something weird with 720p pictures that are being converted to 1080i in the box (if the front of your box is set to 1080i). I have no idea if that could create what you're seeing, but artifacts in that scenario is possible. Here's what I started doing which I wrote about a few pages ago.....
"Here are a couple things I noticed specifically with my STB. I have DirecTV and noticed that 720p channels looks better with it's outputting 720p but 1080i channels look better when it outputs 1080i, so I made some changes to my DVR. First, I set it to spit out the Native format instead of outputting only one or the other. The initial downside to this is that when it sees a 480i/p picture, it changes all the menus temporality to SD when it switches to that mode. That was terrible. So I then set the DVR so that it thinks my TV will only accept 720p, 1080i or 1080p signals, unchecking 480. Regular TV now looks much better to me.
The other thing was that on 4 x 3 SD pictures from the DVR, I sometimes see the data at the top of the screen, so for only this input, I set the picture size to 16 x 9 instead of Screen Fit."
Now about that 16 x 9 thing. I set it back to Screen Fit because I'd rather deal with the occasional data stream showing at the top of the screen on incorrectly formatted SD video than with the slight degradation in picture quality I was seeing from zooming in on HD.

It had to be Encore causing the blinking. Tron is showing on Starz now at 1080i and there's no problem with the picture at all.

On a side note, I'm really impressed with the 3D effect, but I can see how people say they can't watch it for too long at a time.
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post #3614 of 16222 Old 09-14-2012, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

I have no idea what the built in differences are between Standard and Natural, but Natural looks anything but to me. I can't watch it. Everyone sees differently though. smile.gif

There's nothing "natural" about natural mode. It's hideous, and unwatchable, regardless of settings. The only mode worst is dynamic. Seriously, I don't even know why these 2 modes are included. All we need are standard, movie and custom.
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post #3615 of 16222 Old 09-14-2012, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

Gamer, Nitra doesn't mention what backlight he uses for 2D viewing, he mentioned in the previous page he uses 12 for 3D, i just want to confirm what backlight he uses for 2D mode.
and i also want to know the difference between NATURAL and STANDARD please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

Guys i have a question, whats the difference between NATURAL and STANDARD mode?
This question is for NITRA, please chime in Nitra, you are using Standard mode right? what do you have the backlight set to for 2D Viewing? for 3D you have it on 12 right?
and the EcoSensor you have set on "Mininum backlight 4" right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Op's Guy View Post

As I stated early its 9. He posted that shortly after he originally posted his calibrated setting.
Natural has very limited adjustments. Surely you can see the difference.
Edit: It may be 7.

Currently it's set at 12, with the ECO sensor set to bottom out at 4, 4 is quite usable for Standard mode, 4 in Movie mode is quite darker and some movies will be very uncomfortable.
My TV room is very dark, so even if I set it to 20, the ECO sensor kicks in right away bringing it down to a proper level.
For 3D, I base it at 12.
Sorry for the lack of responses the last few days, been burning the candle at both ends pushing out some server upgrades.
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post #3616 of 16222 Old 09-14-2012, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

There's nothing "natural" about natural mode. It's hideous, and unwatchable, regardless of settings. The only mode worst is dynamic. Seriously, I don't even know why these 2 modes are included. All we need are standard, movie and custom.

I will admit, in a bar setting, with the TV 14' off the ground, natural does tend to look better than some of the other modes, however, you'd not catch me dead watching it from 9' away, my eyeballs would have a suntan after a few minutes of it.
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post #3617 of 16222 Old 09-14-2012, 05:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by gamermwm View Post

Nitra you should get paid for this.
Lamon, Nitra re-posted his settings on the previous page (p.60) for all to see (post #3583). There you will find most of your answers

You should get paid.. This is like a part time job for you smile.gif
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post #3618 of 16222 Old 09-14-2012, 05:27 AM
 
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I'm having a strong feeling that when the Evo kit comes out, it's going to have Google TV along with Samsung's App store. I'm also having this weird feeling that there's going to be no picture improvements with the kit. Only improvements for the Smart TV. Example, Quad core, google TV. I hope my feeling is dead wrong though cause we need Smart LED, and Cinema Black on this TV. Those 2 features will make this ES8000 series and 7500 shine..

I think we should all send the OOP another Email and demand they let us have those 2 features back. Explain how there on the D8000 and these 2012 TV's are supposed to have an even better picture than the D8000 but without them, it just doesn't. We can't give up. Eventually they will get tired are Emails and maybe.. Just maybe do something about it.
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post #3619 of 16222 Old 09-14-2012, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony5362 View Post

I'm having a strong feeling that when the Evo kit comes out, it's going to have Google TV along with Samsung's App store. I'm also having this weird feeling that there's going to be no picture improvements with the kit. Only improvements for the Smart TV. Example, Quad core, google TV. I hope my feeling is dead wrong though cause we need Smart LED, and Cinema Black on this TV. Those 2 features will make this ES8000 series and 7500 shine..
I think we should all send the OOP another Email and demand they let us have those 2 features back. Explain how there on the D8000 and these 2012 TV's are supposed to have an even better picture than the D8000 but without them, it just doesn't. We can't give up. Eventually they will get tired are Emails and maybe.. Just maybe do something about it.

Cinema Black is a feature of hardware dimming. Made possible by turning off the top/bottom LED's. Not ever gonna work on this set

Though they can add more software dimming zones with improved algorithms and processing power though. I actually expect this to happen

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post #3620 of 16222 Old 09-14-2012, 08:00 AM
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I was playing around with my S3 and es8000 yesterday.
Pretty cool the smart view app that allows you to watch what is on the screen of your TV to your phone.
I just didn't understand why you would ever want to use it????

Also the AllSharePlay works insanely easy, just turn on wifi and then browse to the file and press the TV button.
Makes it insanely easy to share pictures/videos instead of passing your phone around.
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post #3621 of 16222 Old 09-14-2012, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by rob4448585 View Post

I was playing around with my S3 and es8000 yesterday.
Pretty cool the smart view app that allows you to watch what is on the screen of your TV to your phone.
I just didn't understand why you would ever want to use it????

It's for that once every 5 years when you eat bad Mexican and can't leave the bathroom for fear of staining the walls.
You can sit nicely and watch/control your TV from the john.
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post #3622 of 16222 Old 09-14-2012, 01:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by gamermwm View Post

Cinema Black is a feature of hardware dimming. Made possible by turning off the top/bottom LED's. Not ever gonna work on this set
Though they can add more software dimming zones with improved algorithms and processing power though. I actually expect this to happen

I always thought that Cinema black which is on the D8000 was Software and not hardware..
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post #3623 of 16222 Old 09-14-2012, 01:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nitra View Post

It's for that once every 5 years when you eat bad Mexican and can't leave the bathroom for fear of staining the walls.
You can sit nicely and watch/control your TV from the john.

Exactly!!!
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post #3624 of 16222 Old 09-14-2012, 06:59 PM
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post #3625 of 16222 Old 09-14-2012, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony5362 View Post

I always thought that Cinema black which is on the D8000 was Software and not hardware..

Don't just take my word for it. The following is a quote from the D8000 thread. It explains it a little better. MKANET is explaining here why this fellow's Euro D8000 did not have the Cinema Black feature: Because it did not have hardware dimming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKANET View Post

I agree that they should have made these two settings the same name. However, they aren't the same TV, hardware wise. European D8000 LCD's don't have the ability to independently turn OFF/ON each individual LEDs; which is needed to prevent clouding/flashlighting when dealing with video content that has partially black backgrounds. American D8000 LCD feature is known as "microdimming plus". Euro D8000's LCD TV's perform exactly like D7000s LCD TV's; which have basic "microdimming" (LCDs have to be on at all times; only can be dimmed). The only way the LCDs turn off completely is when there's a completely black background (which all LCDs turn off at the same time).

On another note, the 65D8000 didn't have Cinema Black either, but that was because it was top/bottom edge lit, not side-lit like the other 2011 models (it was more akin to the C series LED models from 2010).
The ES series is side lit as were the 2011 models, to avoid confusion, but it lacks the ability to independently dim its LED's. Minus the new features, the ES sets are more akin to the D7000 & Euro D8000 televisions, but with roughly twice the software dimming zones than the D8000 models

It is possible that they could add a software based version of a Cinema Black feature in the future but it would only dim the LED's as MKANET said, it wouldn't turn them off completely.

Just to see how much software dimming actually makes a difference for dimming letterbox bars/blacks etc...try using a feature like Black Enhancer in Movie Mode to see how close this set can come to dimming parts of the screen without overly crushing blacks (Don't use Real Black Pro or Dynamic Contrast though which can badly crush blacks). That's about as good as it's gonna get with software dimming. They can add more dimming zones via an upgrade, for more pinpoint accuracy and image enhancement, but this set will never be able to actually turn off its LED's.

As for making blacks even blacker, we're kind of just stuck with a more aggressive version of CE Dimming which automatically dims the backlight (but also masks uniformity/clouding/flashlighting issues) for dark scenes. It will make your blacks a lot blacker but also dims whatever else is going on in the picture (which is why most people hate it). I don't mind it too much though, considering we don't have any sort of hardware dimming.

The D8000 did have hardware dimming and didn't really have too many problems with CE Dimming (if it had CE Dimming at all). I didn't remember seeing it on the set I had, or anyone complaining about it so I did a search on that thread and got 0 hits for CE Dimming, and for "Auto Dimming" I got a couple hits but it was just people coming from the C series asking if it was still an issue.

When you watched credits on a D8000, or had any white text on a black background, the text was bright just like it was supposed to be. I'd say if CE Dimming is absolutely just driving you insane, you should "upgrade" to a D8000 (and PRAY that you get a set without banding/uniformity issues) or $UPGRADE$ to the new ES9000.

As for myself, I understand the purpose of CE Dimming even if its not perfect by a long shot, and I don't spend time watching credits/obsessing over how it affects a few minutes out of the entire movie I'm watching. Now having said all that, I'd still like the option to have it on or off if I want, and the option to use Micro Dimming Ultimate in Movie Mode

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post #3626 of 16222 Old 09-15-2012, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony5362 View Post

I'm having a strong feeling that when the Evo kit comes out, it's going to have Google TV along with Samsung's App store. I'm also having this weird feeling that there's going to be no picture improvements with the kit. Only improvements for the Smart TV. Example, Quad core, google TV. I hope my feeling is dead wrong though cause we need Smart LED, and Cinema Black on this TV. Those 2 features will make this ES8000 series and 7500 shine..
I think we should all send the OOP another Email and demand they let us have those 2 features back. Explain how there on the D8000 and these 2012 TV's are supposed to have an even better picture than the D8000 but without them, it just doesn't. We can't give up. Eventually they will get tired are Emails and maybe.. Just maybe do something about it.

I was thinking the same thing just yesterday, as I was looking through my paperwork and came across their promotional flyer for the upgrade kit. THey talk about faster processing and more memory, and "enhanced" feature. But it sounds to me like that means no new picture improvements. We'll see more memory, and maybe a better processor, and certainly more useless apps and "smart" features, but I'd be very surprised if we get any improvements in picture. It would be very nice to think that AMP would get an upgrade, to perform more smoothly with less-than-ideal-sources, without all the stuttering and frame drops. That's an area they should really work on polishing. It's a great feature but it's obvious to me it's useless with many cable signals. They need to polish it up. If it chokes on cable sources then it needs work. Maybe a faster processor will help with that.

We should be demanding that we get control over auto-dimming (shadow detail setting, whatever they want to call it now) and get micro-dimming enabled in movie mode. This needs to happen.

Does cinema black affect the life of the LEDs? It sounds to me like it could cause uneven aging if you watch tons of letterbox films and those LEDs are always off. Maybe I'm not getting how it works though. Sounds like it's not possible on these sets anyways. Even if it happens for the ES8000, I wonder if the ES7500 would get it.
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post #3627 of 16222 Old 09-15-2012, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by gamermwm View Post

As for making blacks even blacker, we're kind of just stuck with a more aggressive version of CE Dimming which automatically dims the backlight (but also masks uniformity/clouding/flashlighting issues) for dark scenes. It will make your blacks a lot blacker but also dims whatever else is going on in the picture (which is why most people hate it). I don't mind it too much though, considering we don't have any sort of hardware dimming.
The D8000 did have hardware dimming and didn't really have too many problems with CE Dimming (if it had CE Dimming at all). I didn't remember seeing it on the set I had, or anyone complaining about it so I did a search on that thread and got 0 hits for CE Dimming, and for "Auto Dimming" I got a couple hits but it was just people coming from the C series asking if it was still an issue.
When you watched credits on a D8000, or had any white text on a black background, the text was bright just like it was supposed to be. I'd say if CE Dimming is absolutely just driving you insane, you should "upgrade" to a D8000 (and PRAY that you get a set without banding/uniformity issues) or $UPGRADE$ to the new ES9000.
As for myself, I understand the purpose of CE Dimming even if its not perfect by a long shot, and I don't spend time watching credits/obsessing over how it affects a few minutes out of the entire movie I'm watching. Now having said all that, I'd still like the option to have it on or off if I want, and the option to use Micro Dimming Ultimate in Movie Mode

People continue to say that the dimming only affects credits. Wrong, wrong, wrong. It's very easy to see it happen on a wide range of material. I'm not watching movie mode because I love movie mode, I'm watching it because auto-dimming literally ruins everything I watch. If it's a dark scene, it's dimmed with auto-dimming. Plain and simple. It's not just credits. Maybe some just don't notice these things. When I see the way some people have their tvs set up, with yellow/orange bright faces and blindingly bright, it's no wonder some claim they don't see the dimming happen. Some just aren't that picky over their images, and wouldn't know dimming if they were staring at it.

The last thing we need is more aggressive auto-dimming. Darkening the screen is one hell of a poor way to provide "better"" blacks. It's a crying shame that this year we get no control over it. I will never forgive Samsung for taking that setting away from us, and this will be the last set from them I purchase if they don't get their act together and get us this fix. My friend is stunned that a set this good can be ruined by such a poor decision.

BTW, where's this "update" that Samsung is supposed to be working on to take care of this issue and micro-dimming?
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post #3628 of 16222 Old 09-15-2012, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by garyxrreedy View Post

I am disappointed in myself that i have to ask this, but I think I might have an old version of firmware still on my UN46ES8000 that could perhaps help narrow the point in time when this Micro-Dimming Movie vs Standard issue cropped up.link

Did we ever prove that it happened in an update? I think these sets were shipped like this from the beginning. Why would they take away the shadow-detail/auto-dimming setting and kill micro-dimming in movie mode in an update? They didn't. They just decided when they made these sets to drop these options.
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post #3629 of 16222 Old 09-15-2012, 05:23 AM
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For what I understand from it, micro dimming is disabled in movie mode because movie mode is supposed to have a better color accuracy, and standard mode does not. From the viewpoint of Samsung I think they have chosen to give people two options:

1. A setting with deep blacks, sharpness, and less color accuracy.

2. A setting without the deep blacks, without the sharpness, but perfect color accuracy.


For me the blacks, sharpness and color accuracy all of the same importance. So there is definitely a conflict here between Samsung's choice and the consumer's choice.
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post #3630 of 16222 Old 09-15-2012, 06:18 AM
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For me the blacks, sharpness and color accuracy all of the same importance. So there is definitely a conflict here between Samsung's choice and the consumer's choice.

Well said, and very true.
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