Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 16284 Old 03-24-2012, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by leftyguitar1963 View Post

Off-axis viewing has never been a strong point of the S-PVA panels....

Why haven't they changed over to an IPS panel?

Because the native viewing angle of the latest IPS and PVS panels is not that far apart and the PVS panels have better native black levels.
What effects final viewing angle is the glass panel and polarising/glare filters and other screen coatings. The best viewing angle may not come with the best picture quality and it is a juggling act for manufacturers. Whatever viewing angles are a limiting factor for all LCD sets even the best struggle over 30degrees.
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post #362 of 16284 Old 03-24-2012, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by rogerft View Post

Because the native viewing angle of the latest IPS and PVS panels is not that far apart and the PVS panels have better native black levels.
What effects final viewing angle is the glass panel and polarising/glare filters and other screen coatings. The best viewing angle may not come with the best picture quality and it is a juggling act for manufacturers. Whatever viewing angles are a limiting factor for all LCD sets even the best struggle over 30degrees.

On a side note, what panel is sony using on there XBR series? What function does the gorilla glass provide? It has one of the deepest blacks I've seen.

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post #363 of 16284 Old 03-24-2012, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by bekindrewind View Post

On a side note, what panel is sony using on there XBR series? What function does the gorilla glass provide? It has one of the deepest blacks I've seen.

Gorilla glass is simply a glass that doesn't scratch/break nearly as easily as regular glass. No function provided for PQ.
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post #364 of 16284 Old 03-24-2012, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by GeraldRommel View Post

Gorilla glass is simply a glass that doesn't scratch/break nearly as easily as regular glass. No function provided for PQ.

Got it, thank you.
However I still didn't get an answer to what panel is sony using on their XBR series?
No worries, I post this question on the Sony forum. Thank you again.

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post #365 of 16284 Old 03-24-2012, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post


I went to see one at Fry's today. The dead-on contrast was, again, terrific.

There is, however, no doubt that contrast reduces off-axis very rapidly. It happens before 20 degrees as bigbadbob (and others) have noted.

I'm sorry that some of you think this doesn't happen. Well, I'm not sorry, I'm happy for you because you aren't seeing it and you might not care. But it's happening and it's really a bummer.

I really don't see it. I am not sure what to look for? Will the screen get darker or distorted or just looks brightness in the colors?
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post #366 of 16284 Old 03-25-2012, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by flyguychad View Post

I really don't see it. I am not sure what to look for? Will the screen get darker or distorted or just looks brightness in the colors?

Go back to post 306 and read that one and some of the one's right after that.
I've explained what to look for and how to do it.

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post #367 of 16284 Old 03-25-2012, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by flyguychad View Post

I really don't see it. I am not sure what to look for? Will the screen get darker or distorted or just looks brightness in the colors?

The contrast drops off very quickly. If you don't notice it, don't look. It's not distortion in any sense of that word, but the richness of the image is weakened because the difference between the darkest darks and the brightest brights is lessened rapidly. It affects the whole color spectrum so all colors look flatter and the TV looks a tad dimmer.

Is it worse than many other LCDs? No. But there are now many LCDs that are better, so it's pretty disappointing.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #368 of 16284 Old 03-25-2012, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

The contrast drops off very quickly. If you don't notice it, don't look. It's not distortion in any sense of that word, but the richness of the image is weakened because the difference between the darkest darks and the brightest brights is lessened rapidly. It affects the whole color spectrum so all colors look flatter and the TV looks a tad dimmer.

Is it worse than many other LCDs? No. But there are now many LCDs that are better, so it's pretty disappointing.

Which ones are better in your opinion Rogo?
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post #369 of 16284 Old 03-25-2012, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by bekindrewind View Post

On a side note, what panel is sony using on there XBR series? What function does the gorilla glass provide? It has one of the deepest blacks I've seen.

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Originally Posted by GeraldRommel View Post

Gorilla glass is simply a glass that doesn't scratch/break nearly as easily as regular glass. No function provided for PQ.

http://www.corninggorillaglass.com/S...or_bravia.html

Quote:


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post #370 of 16284 Old 03-25-2012, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Is it worse than many other LCDs? No. But there are now many LCDs that are better, so it's pretty disappointing.

The ES8000 line is not strickly an lcd without led's.
Lcd's have really bad viewing angles.
This new line, the ES8000 HAS THE WORSE off axis viewing angle I've seen compaired to other led's...edge lit, side lit, back lit whatever.
I agree, it's pretty disappointing.
I had hope for this line and was looking forward to buying the 75" if it ever came to market. But viewing the 55" disappointed me so much, it's now off my wish list.

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post #371 of 16284 Old 03-25-2012, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by bekindrewind View Post

The ES8000 line is not strickly an lcd without led's.
Lcd's have really bad viewing angles.
This new line, the ES8000 HAS THE WORSE off axis viewing angle I've seen compaired to other led's...edge lit, side lit, back lit whatever.
I agree, it's pretty disappointing.
I had hope for this line and was looking forward to buying the 75" if it ever came to market. But viewing the 55" disappointed me so much, it's now off my wish list.

So maybe this the reason why Samsung decided to go this year with fixed position stand rather than swivel stand. This way more people watch TV directly rather than from off angles.
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post #372 of 16284 Old 03-25-2012, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by adb View Post

Which ones are better in your opinion Rogo?

Most LCDs over $1000 suffer a smaller contrast drop when viewing 10-20 degrees off axis. I'm not aware of any specific model that isn't better than the ES I saw.

Generally, I do a test in store where I try to spot the contrast dropoff occurring. In our home, we have about a 20-degree angle to the TV from the side couch, middle seat, which I'd argue is a pretty realistic scenario for a lot of homes. In fact, when I've visited friends, I've actually found that few regularly watch from beyond 30 degrees (some do, just not many), but a lot of people watch in the 15-30 degree range.

[For people who need a sense of what that means, a 90-degree angle to the TV would be standing next to it along the same wall. A 0-degree is looking at it face on. I know, I know, this is obvious, right. Well, a 30-degree angle is really only 1/3 of the way from the "best seat", so it's not especially rare.]

Anyway, I start walking from the facing-on position to the side till I notice the contrast falling and then I go back to the start. I do this enough (content on TVs in stores is changing a lot, which doesn't help), until I get convinced I've found roughly the point where (a) I can notice it and (b) I can then see how bad it continues from there. On some sets, for example, the dropoff is a lot worse at 30 degrees than 20. Others, the fall is more gradual.

Last year's Samsung D8000 was nowhere near as bad as the current ES8000 from my experience with the 55" models. Yes, the D8000 had some slight apparent color shift (notably the blacks went a bit bluish), but the sense of contrast didn't fall off like this one. Some change to the color filters or polarizers or front glass must have taken place (or I suppose to the panel itself, though this seems less likely). Whatever the case, the viewing cone for the ES8000 to be enjoyed with its excellent contrast ratio is really quite small.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #373 of 16284 Old 03-25-2012, 04:25 PM
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Wow, you people are seriously fixated. I can see a slight contrast shift, but at the backlight/contrast levels I like to begin with, it doesn't start to be 'noticable' until about 30 deg. I'm quite happy.

And in other news I finally got my Netflix working. Sure enough, it was my router etc. Replaced my modem (was using an 8 year old Speedstream, LOL), and updated to a newer wireless router, and everything is now hunky dory. Netflix, Hulu+ or Pandora via the ES8000, AmazonVOD (or Netflix or Pandora or Hulu+ also available, but I think Netflix and Hulu both are higher quality thru the TV) thru the attached Panasonic Blu-Ray. Wife and I are happy campers. Now just have to program a new universal remote for all the new swag....

Only remaining 'complaint' would be that the audio return channel sometimes seems to cut out, e.g. if you turn off and on the TV while the AVR is already on, sometimes the audio never starts. Need to power or source-cycle the AVR to get audio back. Will have to be careful with macro sequencing with the remote (and a 'fix me' button on the remote for the wife, who does NOT have that patience or knowledge).
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post #374 of 16284 Old 03-25-2012, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post


Last year's Samsung D8000 was nowhere near as bad as the current ES8000 from my experience with the 55" models. Yes, the D8000 had some slight apparent color shift (notably the blacks went a bit bluish), but the sense of contrast didn't fall off like this one. Some change to the color filters or polarizers or front glass must have taken place (or I suppose to the panel itself, though this seems less likely). Whatever the case, the viewing cone for the ES8000 to be enjoyed with its excellent contrast ratio is really quite small.

I love my D8000. I forget who posted it, but someone posted their calibration for the D8000 and I used the same calibration on my set and it now pops! The D8000 IMPO is meant to be displayed bright! I took it out of movie and switched to standard and this set really shines now. My plan now is to keep the set for a few years and wait patiently for the new OLED TV's or if and when the Apple TV!
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post #375 of 16284 Old 03-25-2012, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rtrski1 View Post

Wow, you people are seriously fixated. I can see a slight contrast shift, but at the backlight/contrast levels I like to begin with, it doesn't start to be 'noticable' until about 30 deg. I'm quite happy.

No one is telling you to be unhappy. Be happy. In fact, I believe if you scroll up in this thread, I tell people not to look for this if they can't see it.

But fixated? No, we're objectively describing what's happening.

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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I love my D8000. I forget who posted it, but someone posted their calibration for the D8000 and I used the same calibration on my set and it now pops! The D8000 IMPO is meant to be displayed bright! I took it out of movie and switched to standard and this set really shines now. My plan now is to keep the set for a few years and wait patiently for the new OLED TV's or if and when the Apple TV!

Enjoy it.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #376 of 16284 Old 03-26-2012, 02:36 AM
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Ok still don't see the washed out colors consider me blind I guess.

However twice in the last three nights that I have owned this tv it has come on by itself in the middle of the night. Talk about annoying, the voice control I believe is to blame. I also am starring to notice some flashlight In the middle of the screen. In dark scenes, not too noticeable but there backlight at 13. Overall I still like it better than the und558000 but it's losing favor fast.
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post #377 of 16284 Old 03-26-2012, 06:58 AM
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Rogo

Thanks for your response to my question. I do exactly the same thing you do when looking at off axis viewing. I went back to Best Buy and spent a little time checking off angle viewing again. They had a es7500 next to a es8000 and it appeared to me that the 7500 was slightly better with off angle (I have no idea why that would be the case). But what I thought the average consumer would be happy with, it still seemed to me that the es8000 wasn't any worse than last years D8000 and that it would be acceptable to around 30 degrees. As a side note I also spent some time checking the viewing angle of the Sharp, Sony and LG. I really couldn't see any appreciable difference in all of them. Just my general observation at this point.
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post #378 of 16284 Old 03-26-2012, 08:07 AM
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So I've been reading different user reviews on this Samsung ES8000 TV. I swear, people will try and find ANYTHING wrong with a TV nowadays. I read on AMAZON, SEARS AND BEST BUY negative reviews on this TV because of Security issues. There's people taking these back because they think Samsung will be able to hack into the camera and watch what they're doing. LOL. That is soooooooo ridiculous!! That's like saying Apple is going to hack into my Iphone Camera and watch everything I do, or Lenovo will hack into my camera on my laptop. Wow, I've heard some crazy complaints about TV's before, but this one definitely takes the cake.

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post #379 of 16284 Old 03-26-2012, 11:12 AM
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I found this to be very interesting : http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-tele...2066/test.html .Very good viewing angles,excelent 3d ,good blacks,(it's a little offtopic but seems to god to be true for an LED-LCD)
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post #380 of 16284 Old 03-26-2012, 12:14 PM
 
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Hi Guys!

I am getting conflicting information regarding the availability of the UN75ES8000 model. One source said April. One source said June.

Does anyone have the the "inside" scoop?
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post #381 of 16284 Old 03-26-2012, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Rixxster View Post

Hi Guys!

I am getting conflicting information regarding the availability of the UN75ES8000 model. One source said April. One source said June.

Does anyone have the the "inside" scoop?

I know for sure that the 60" will be available in April. The 65" and 75" are still up in the air. I talked with a Samsung rep last week and they still dont have an estimated date for the two larger models. I would be surprised if the 75" even comes out.

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post #382 of 16284 Old 03-26-2012, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by adb View Post

Rogo

Thanks for your response to my question. I do exactly the same thing you do when looking at off axis viewing. I went back to Best Buy and spent a little time checking off angle viewing again. They had a es7500 next to a es8000 and it appeared to me that the 7500 was slightly better with off angle (I have no idea why that would be the case). But what I thought the average consumer would be happy with, it still seemed to me that the es8000 wasn't any worse than last years D8000 and that it would be acceptable to around 30 degrees. As a side note I also spent some time checking the viewing angle of the Sharp, Sony and LG. I really couldn't see any appreciable difference in all of them. Just my general observation at this point.

The 55ES8000 at my Fry's is mounted a bit oddly. It could be causing me to be a bit more sensitive to its color shifts than if it were mounted more traditionally (it's kind of at an angle vertically). So take my comments in that light and consider that if it were as good as last year's D8000, I'd still find it unacceptable, but I'd recommend it to more people.

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I know for sure that the 60" will be available in April. The 65" and 75" are still up in the air. I talked with a Samsung rep last week and they still dont have an estimated date for the two larger models. I would be surprised if the 75" even comes out.

I'd be stunned if the 75" comes out. It appears LG will again not ship even a 65" in anything but some midrange model. The only reason Samsung even announces the 75" is part of some genital-measuring contest with LG.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #383 of 16284 Old 03-26-2012, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bekindrewind View Post

On a side note, what panel is sony using on there XBR series? What function does the gorilla glass provide? It has one of the deepest blacks I've seen.

Samsung S-PVA.
http://us.digitalversus.com/tv-telev...1157/test.html
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post #384 of 16284 Old 03-26-2012, 05:00 PM
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I think only the full led backlight is made by Sony "We think that this is a PVA LCD display using Full LED backlighting developed by Sony, which would explain why Samsung's name doesn't appear on the label.A label at the back reveals that the display is manufactured by Sony itself.
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post #385 of 16284 Old 03-26-2012, 06:18 PM
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I think only the full led backlight is made by Sony "We think that this is a PVA LCD display using Full LED backlighting developed by Sony, which would explain why Samsung's name doesn't appear on the label.A label at the back reveals that the display is manufactured by Sony itself.

Sony owns no LCD fab capable of producing a 55" or 65" LCD panel. Sorry.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #386 of 16284 Old 03-26-2012, 06:19 PM
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Went back today to best buy and also pc richerd's and son and still i looked at the ES8000 reallly hard this time ,and the black's were just as good to me as a plasma if not right there spot on ,when u do go from center in the tv like right one dead center and u go a little to the right or left the picture still look's wonderful ,BUT STILL THATS WHAT MY EYES SEE.sometime really people need to understand that every one's eye ball's are different ,what i see other's dont see and what u see i dont see .so idk why everyone is so crazy out there saying that off angle for ES8000 is not fantastic ,um last time i looked this was a LCD LED panal.its sad that there can never be the perfect tv in the world but it's what u enjoy ,also remeber that its your money buy what u like and dont let anyone tell u different.hand's down ,i know i am going to get crap for this comment but hey it's what every.it's just how i feel .and yes i understand my spelling is not PERFECT!! so please dont jugde me i am only human and no one is perfect.
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post #387 of 16284 Old 03-26-2012, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by joseph10704 View Post

Went back today to best buy and also pc richerd's and son and still i looked at the ES8000 reallly hard this time ,and the black's were just as good to me as a plasma if not right there spot on ,when u do go from center in the tv like right one dead center and u go a little to the right or left the picture still look's wonderful ,BUT STILL THATS WHAT MY EYES SEE.sometime really people need to understand that every one's eye ball's are different ,what i see other's dont see and what u see i dont see .so idk why everyone is so crazy out there saying that off angle for ES8000 is not fantastic ,um last time i looked this was a LCD LED panal.its sad that there can never be the perfect tv in the world but it's what u enjoy ,also remeber that its your money buy what u like and dont let anyone tell u different.hand's down ,i know i am going to get crap for this comment
but hey it's what every.it's just how i feel .and yes i understand my spelling is not PERFECT!! so please dont jugde me i am only human and no one is perfect.

Agreed. I'm not really worried about the limited viewing angle until I find out for sure that it's not easily taken care of by using proper settings

The review I read basically said that in dynamic or "torch" mode, was when it was a problem:

"In fact, aside from a rather limited viewing angle before contrast and colour start to reduce, and provided you steer clear of the Samsung UE55ES8000's ill-judged presets, there really isn't much to dislike about its 2D pictures."

So I wonder if this problem is being blow wayyy out of proportion

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post #388 of 16284 Old 03-26-2012, 07:17 PM
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The contrast issues are due to the PVA technology. It drives me MAD on my 2008 52" Samsung TV. I need an IPS TV. I know some are made, but how do I find them?
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post #389 of 16284 Old 03-26-2012, 07:37 PM
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[quote=gamermwm;21831835]Agreed. I'm not really worried about the limited viewing angle until I find out for sure that it's not easily taken care of by using proper settings

I wish it was that easy but it's not.
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post #390 of 16284 Old 03-26-2012, 08:39 PM
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I dunno about the rest of u, but I have been patiently waiting on this new series for the last few months is high anticipation. I am all over either the 65 or 75....

Saw the 55 on the main floor of frys with a few sofas and the last bourne bluray playing. Aside from a little judder from the amp processing, the picture looked damn good....I could see a little light beed but not to much..

I kept going back and forth looking at the off angle viewing, and the other ppl sitting on the couch must have thought I was nutz cause they didn't have a clue as to what I was doing...anyhow...I think the set looked great and I can't wait to see the 65 and 75
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