Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 16284 Old 04-01-2012, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Audio5oh View Post

I read some reviews on the Best Buy website where a couple of folks are returning their Samsung LED's with the built-in camera because they are worried "big brother is watching". One guys claim he recently saw news stories, including an article on MSNBC about privacy concerns of TVs getting hacked. He goes on to say that there's a potential of invasive advertising which monitors your habits. Assuming there might be hackers, is there a way to disable the camera? Better yet, is there some type of lens cover for the camera when it's not in use?
Anyone feel this is a feature that maybe samsung should have left out? Any concerns with the built-in camera that are making you have second thoughts?

I suggest you either (a) ignore sensationalized, completely baseless non-news reports or (b) get a tinfoil hat.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #452 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 12:26 AM
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So I finally got an es7500 sitting next do a D8000. It blows it away in every way I can find. More vibrant colors, better blacks, viewing angle is not bad at all. This thread had made me doubt myself and think I should aim for the panasonic dt50. I know now that the Samsung is for me.
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post #453 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by flyguychad View Post

It's possible but highly unlikely. It doesn't keep me awake at night. Wouldn't be to hard to place a piece of tape over the camera if it bothers you. I'm glad the camera was built in, saves me a lot of hassle of dealing with video kinect

Someone said that you could point the camera (by adjusting it behind the tv)up or down relative to your seating position, and depending on the position (height-wise) of the tv, it would not even be able to see you. This is what I plan on doing if I end up not using the gesture system

I already use a Kinect (which I turn off when not using) so I'm used to having visual devices around me and facing me most of the time

When I first saw the design, I didn't like the camera, but now that I think about how many easy workarounds there are for any privacy issues, it is no longer a dealbreaker. I can understand any concern though

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post #454 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 12:59 AM
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So when is the wireless keyboard w/trackpad coming out? I've heard good things about it, but haven't seen a release date on it yet

Also, can any D8000 owners confirm if this tv works with last year's keyboard remote? The touch movement on the remote was terrible on last year's browser, but the keys came in handy for entering text

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post #455 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 11:07 AM
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I think it is going to depend on the viewer and the individual set each user receives again this year. For my uses this tv is hands down better than last years. This tv is not perfect but it is pretty awesome. It is true there is more glare and I have had to close the blinds a few times in the evening. There is also minimal clouding on complete dark images but it's really not noticeable unless you are looking for it. No bleeding that I notice and that is where this tv is excelling at compared with last years. I also don't need the back light level set to 16 like on last years. I currently have it at 13 and it is plenty bright.

We have had it about a week and yesterday my wife says...
"OK, I think the tv just impressed me" some red bull snowboarding show on NBC yesterday had amazing images in HD and she was impressed.

Anyways an awesome tv if you are using the apps and 3d. If you are just looking for a tv with a great pq and your not worried about all the extras than there are probably better alternatives. I like the whole package that this tv brings. A really good pq, thin bezel, camera, 4 glasses, good apps (web browser) and awesome 3d.

Thanks for that info. Reason I'm looking into this model is it's low profile design, plus the bezel is so thin, now I can fit the 55 inch model over my fireplace built-in without making modifications. I have a Panasonic 50inch plasma now. Speaking of which, the other model I've been looking at is the Panasonic VIERA TC-L55DT50 LED. This model comes with 8 train speakers and a subwoofer, which I'm very curious about. How is the sound quality on the Samsung? Is that pretty descent?
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post #456 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 12:30 PM
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If this is true : http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-tele...2984/test.html - Sams. is lot worse than the D8000 -they forgot about P.Q. this year , and stuff us only with gimmick's (motion and voice controlls) only 0.11 Blacks and 1950 contrast and 3.1 delta not to mention a riddiculeus 1.2 from 5 score in wiewing angles. for a flagshiptv this is very bad, a dealbreake for me unfortunately, my Sams. C series is better than this regarding P.Q.viewing angles. I guess that software dimming of the ES cannot compare with D8000 hardware dimming Despite having dual core pro ,it appear's than the hardware dimming make's the diference aftel all.
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post #457 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Audio5oh View Post


Thanks for that info. Reason I'm looking into this model is it's low profile design, plus the bezel is so thin, now I can fit the 55 inch model over my fireplace built-in without making modifications. I have a Panasonic 50inch plasma now. Speaking of which, the other model I've been looking at is the Panasonic VIERA TC-L55DT50 LED. This model comes with 8 train speakers and a subwoofer, which I'm very curious about. How is the sound quality on the Samsung? Is that pretty descent?

Sound quality is terrible actually. I have it on movie mode and it sounds better but voices are still muffled. I am placing it above my fireplace in a few weeks and I plan using a Audio receiver with arc capability. I am going run one hdmi in the wall and hopefully that will be the only wire I need to run to hook up the surround sound.
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post #458 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by inthemix27 View Post

If this is true : http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-tele...2984/test.html - Sams. is lot worse than the D8000 -they forgot about P.Q. this year , and stuff us only with gimmick's (motion and voice controlls) only 0.11 Blacks and 1950 contrast and 3.1 delta not to mention a riddiculeus 1.2 from 5 score in wiewing angles. for a flagshiptv this is very bad, a dealbreake for me unfortunately, my Sams. C series is better than this regarding P.Q.viewing angles. I guess that software dimming of the ES cannot compare with D8000 hardware dimming Despite having dual core pro ,it appear's than the hardware dimming make's the diference aftel all.

I've said this before but I'll reiterate: The notion that a dual-core processor is going to be affirmatively affect picture quality is a little ludicrous. Maybe a lot ludicrous. It's a nice feature for things like web use, the app layer, etc. It's relationship to picture quality is tenuous on a good day; non-existent more likely.

As for the review, the reviewer in question certainly has no known axe to grind and maybe the black levels are worse, but one reading is just that: one reading. In a bright room, the Samsung ES8000 is still very contrasty.

And, yes, by objective measures the viewing angles on the set are not good.

The "deltas" are all pre-calibration so might or might not matter to a buyer. It's better if the TV has a good preset than not, but I'm not sure that's a dealbreaker.

The new model has enough compelling features that if you wanted a thin-bezel Samsung, I'd buy the ES8000 and get it calibrated, since I'd be keeping it for many years.

One thing you wrote intrigued me: "they forgot about P.Q. this year , and stuff us only with gimmick's". That's been their MO for several years; nothing new here, I'm afraid.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #459 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 03:37 PM
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So it is safe to assume that the D-series has a better PQ( from what I'm reading ) if you don't need all the gimmicky software?

I just need 46"ish. Built in wi-fi,120hz, and that is where it ends. I like the PQ on my brothers older Sammy so I wanted to get one for myself.
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post #460 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by inthemix27 View Post

If this is true : http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-tele...2984/test.html - Sams. is lot worse than the D8000 -they forgot about P.Q. this year , and stuff us only with gimmick's (motion and voice controlls) only 0.11 Blacks and 1950 contrast and 3.1 delta not to mention a riddiculeus 1.2 from 5 score in wiewing angles. for a flagshiptv this is very bad, a dealbreake for me unfortunately, my Sams. C series is better than this regarding P.Q.viewing angles. I guess that software dimming of the ES cannot compare with D8000 hardware dimming Despite having dual core pro ,it appear's than the hardware dimming make's the diference aftel all.

I was saying this earlier, no way the es8000 was going to have deeper black levels over the d8000. Without having actually dimming the leds the es8000 couldn't achieve better black levels. Seems Samsung is more focus on design and features then picture quality.
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post #461 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Audio5oh View Post

I've been looking at is the Panasonic VIERA TC-L55DT50 LED.

This would be the better choice, as it has an IPS panel, for viewing angles. Over fireplace installs need this, imo, or another pdp, as there are no viewing angle limitations.
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post #462 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 04:08 PM
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I've said this before but I'll reiterate: The notion that a dual-core processor is going to be affirmatively affect picture quality is a little ludicrous. Maybe a lot ludicrous. It's a nice feature for things like web use, the app layer, etc. It's relationship to picture quality is tenuous on a good day; non-existent more likely.

Totally disagree - the more processing power available the more VSP and LCD management that can be done on the fly. Having two processors improves the task handling. This has a significant effect on ability to manipulate the display and is one of the reasons H/W dimming has been dropped.
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post #463 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 05:06 PM
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Maybe this will save the Samsung day :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQgMmiPjMAY ,last year on cnet .Sams. plasma d series receive excelent score ,in every direction, i am now going for this plasma or wait for panas. GT50 or their WT50 flagship LED (on that i read excelent thing's ) here it is -
http://hdguru.com/panasonic-2012-tc-...t-review/7619/
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post #464 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 05:29 PM
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Totally disagree - the more processing power available the more VSP and LCD management that can be done on the fly. Having two processors improves the task handling. This has a significant effect on ability to manipulate the display and is one of the reasons H/W dimming has been dropped.

Keep drinking the kool-aid. I'm not saying there are no PQ benefits to Samsungs new micro dimming. This new software is just advanced dynamic contrast software no matter how try to look at it.

Lcd don't generate their own light, so they need a light source to work. When a tv displays black and the light source is still on light always bleeds through the lcd crystals.To achieve deeper black levels they came up with local dimming the light source. Its just the facts of LCD tvs if you want deep black levels you have to eliminate the light source.

Samsung knew this and they had full local dimming tvs. They dropped full local dimming in favor of edge led dimming. In my opinion they dropped full in favor of edge dimming because of cost. Rumor has it they where sued by Sharp but the full details of the lawsuit have never surfaced. Now they dropped even edge local dimming in favor of Software, not because they truly believe its better but because its cheaper.

The und8000 and ued8000 were different tvs, the und8000 had hardware dimming while the ued8000 didn't. Why would Samsung do this? Cost the und8000 has and extra cpu just to control the hardware dimming. The ued8000 doesn't have this cpu but it also has a duel tuners for cable and free-sat, it also can act as a dvr with a hdd or usb stick. The und8000 doesn't have these extra features.

My conclusion, Samsung is trying to pack more features in their tvs. In order to keep cost profitable they chose to drop and add features. Them dropping hardware dimming is more driven by cost, they put kinect and duel core processor with all kinds of new features. Software can improve the PQ but its never going to make blacks blacker the way they claim, only hardware can do that as its a lcd limited factor which is a hardware factor.
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post #465 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 06:22 PM
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Keep drinking the kool-aid. I'm not saying there are no PQ benefits to Samsungs new micro dimming. This new software is just advanced dynamic contrast software no matter how try to look at it.

Lcd don't generate their own light, so they need a light source to work. When a tv displays black and the light source is still on light always bleeds through the lcd crystals.To achieve deeper black levels they came up with local dimming the light source. Its just the facts of LCD tvs if you want deep black levels you have to eliminate the light source.

Samsung knew this and they had full local dimming tvs. They dropped full local dimming in favor of edge led dimming. In my opinion they dropped full in favor of edge dimming because of cost. Rumor has it they where sued by Sharp but the full details of the lawsuit have never surfaced. Now they dropped even edge local dimming in favor of Software, not because they truly believe its better but because its cheaper.

The und8000 and ued8000 were different tvs, the und8000 had hardware dimming while the ued8000 didn't. Why would Samsung do this? Cost the und8000 has and extra cpu just to control the hardware dimming. The ued8000 doesn't have this cpu but it also has a duel tuners for cable and free-sat, it also can act as a dvr with a hdd or usb stick. The und8000 doesn't have these extra features.

My conclusion, Samsung is trying to pack more features in their tvs. In order to keep cost profitable they chose to drop and add features. Them dropping hardware dimming is more driven by cost, they put kinect and duel core processor with all kinds of new features. Software can improve the PQ but its never going to make blacks blacker the way they claim, only hardware can do that as its a lcd limited factor which is a hardware factor.

So you're basically saying no "Cinema Black" feature will be available on this set right

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post #466 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 06:47 PM
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So you're basically saying no "Cinema Black" feature will be available on this set right

If you want to put it that way sure, edge local dimming is limited. It does have its uses, I would rather have edge dimming then no dimming which the esd8000 has. Edge dimming is not going to compete with full local dimming, but the esd8000 may as well be an ccfl tv with leds. The d8000 can eliminate flashlighting, the esd8000 will be more prone to it because it can't locally dim its leds. Just wait until a real review from a credited trusted calibrator comes out, I will gladly point everyone to my earlier points on this tv.
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post #467 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 07:47 PM
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Someone said that you could point the camera (by adjusting it behind the tv)up or down relative to your seating position, and depending on the position (height-wise) of the tv, it would not even be able to see you. This is what I plan on doing if I end up not using the gesture system

I already use a Kinect (which I turn off when not using) so I'm used to having visual devices around me and facing me most of the time

When I first saw the design, I didn't like the camera, but now that I think about how many easy workarounds there are for any privacy issues, it is no longer a dealbreaker. I can understand any concern though

yes this is very true i went to bestbuy and u can point the cameria back to the other side so really people need to stop and worry about being watched because its a bunch of bs ,there is notheing with the privice thing's withe the es7500 or es8000 people are just over reacting.to bs and false rumors that are not true .if u go on hdguru,samsung talks about how the privisey things are safe and no one has to worry.
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post #468 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 08:03 PM
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yes this is very true i went to bestbuy and u can point the cameria back to the other side so really people need to stop and worry about being watched because its a bunch of bs ,there is notheing with the privice thing's withe the es7500 or es8000 people are just over reacting.to bs and false rumors that are not true .if u go on hdguru,samsung talks about how the privisey things are safe and no one has to worry.

Samsung doesn't even need to say anything. This 1. Has no use for Samsung to put it into the code to happen only for someone to discover it. 2. You can easily see when the camera is on.
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post #469 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by gagit811 View Post

Keep drinking the kool-aid. I'm not saying there are no PQ benefits to Samsungs new micro dimming. This new software is just advanced dynamic contrast software no matter how try to look at it.

Lcd don't generate their own light, so they need a light source to work. When a tv displays black and the light source is still on light always bleeds through the lcd crystals.To achieve deeper black levels they came up with local dimming the light source. Its just the facts of LCD tvs if you want deep black levels you have to eliminate the light source.

Samsung knew this and they had full local dimming tvs. They dropped full local dimming in favor of edge led dimming. In my opinion they dropped full in favor of edge dimming because of cost. Rumor has it they where sued by Sharp but the full details of the lawsuit have never surfaced. Now they dropped even edge local dimming in favor of Software, not because they truly believe its better but because its cheaper.

The und8000 and ued8000 were different tvs, the und8000 had hardware dimming while the ued8000 didn't. Why would Samsung do this? Cost the und8000 has and extra cpu just to control the hardware dimming. The ued8000 doesn't have this cpu but it also has a duel tuners for cable and free-sat, it also can act as a dvr with a hdd or usb stick. The und8000 doesn't have these extra features.

My conclusion, Samsung is trying to pack more features in their tvs. In order to keep cost profitable they chose to drop and add features. Them dropping hardware dimming is more driven by cost, they put kinect and duel core processor with all kinds of new features. Software can improve the PQ but its never going to make blacks blacker the way they claim, only hardware can do that as its a lcd limited factor which is a hardware factor.

So would you say the D-series from last year has a better PQ then the ES-series of this year, or at least a PQ that is comparable.
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post #470 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 09:01 PM
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So would you say the D-series from last year has a better PQ then the ES-series of this year, or at least a PQ that is comparable.

I wouldn't know as I don't have the es8000. Black levels don't totally dictate overall picture quality, Alto having deeper blacks does raise the contrast ratio of the TV. I just want to point out micro dimming of the es8000 isn't as great as some would say here. One guy claims that software dimming is better then hardware dimming, that is just not true.
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post #471 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 09:03 PM
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I wouldn't know as I don't have the es8000. Black levels don't totally dictate overall picture quality, Alto having deeper blacks does raise the contrast ratio of the TV. I just want to point out micro dimming of the es8000 isn't as great as some would say here. One guy claims that software dimming is better then hardware dimming, that is just not true.

I would looking toward a lowel model ES. Is the construction that much different between the tiers?
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post #472 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 09:10 PM
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So would you say the D-series from last year has a better PQ then the ES-series of this year, or at least a PQ that is comparable.

All I know is what my eyes say. My eyes with my current setup and es8000 say that this tv has a better pq and better blacks than the d8000. Sounds like my d8000 was just that bad and this current es8000 is more along the lines of what I should have expected with the d8000. So many variables go into it. Bottom line though if you can get d8000 for around $1600 I would pull the trigger on that over the es8000 and it's current price tag
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post #473 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 09:14 PM
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I would looking toward a lowel model ES. Is the construction that much different between the tiers?

Samsungs 2012 line up is just about the same across the board. The top models have duel core processors and the motion camera. Other then that I don't believe PQ difference from lower end to high end will be that much different.
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post #474 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 09:22 PM
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Samsungs 2012 line up is just about the same across the board. The top models have duel core processors and the motion camera. Other then that I don't believe PQ difference from lower end to high end will be that much different.

Same goes for the 2011?
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post #475 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 09:35 PM
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Same goes for the 2011?

The und8000 has hardware plus software dimming which makes it the flagship of 2011. The rest of the lineup all about the same too.
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post #476 of 16284 Old 04-02-2012, 11:40 PM
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Totally disagree - the more processing power available the more VSP and LCD management that can be done on the fly. Having two processors improves the task handling. This has a significant effect on ability to manipulate the display and is one of the reasons H/W dimming has been dropped.

You should go to work for Samsung marketing.

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Keep drinking the kool-aid. I'm not saying there are no PQ benefits to Samsungs new micro dimming. This new software is just advanced dynamic contrast software no matter how try to look at it..

I kind of wonder what it is at all.

In some of their marketing they describe something that sounds like pixel-based software dimming. Every single LCD on the market from everyone implements this. Without it, your TV would have no greyscale and therefore no shades of color.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #477 of 16284 Old 04-03-2012, 12:03 AM
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I wonder what happened to S-PVA2? Or did Samsung decide not to bother too much with LCDs and focus on OLED?
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post #478 of 16284 Old 04-03-2012, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

You should go to work for Samsung marketing.



I kind of wonder what it is at all.

In some of their marketing they describe something that sounds like pixel-based software dimming. Every single LCD on the market from everyone implements this. Without it, your TV would have no greyscale and therefore no shades of color.

Local Array dimming comes with its own problems as does every other H/W dimming solution upon which you seem fixated. Only when the array clusters are small enough i.e. per pixel group will it be worth having. My Sony 923 went back, yes the contrast was good but the haloing wasn't and strange effects on letterbox drove me crazy it worked much better with the dimming switched off.
You were correct when you said picture is not all about contrast and thats what Samsung are following.

Anyway you are entitled to your opinion.

One thing is for sure most of the Jap majors are loosing money and scared of OLED they are pinning hopes on 4K but LG and Samsung may well decimate what is left of Sony and Panasonic and Sharp are not in a good place. I expect it will all be outsourced very soon!
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post #479 of 16284 Old 04-03-2012, 11:13 AM
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I heard the review done by digitalversus was done before any firmware updates from the UK owners forum [Link] (Post #605) which can explain the pretty bad review. Before the patch was release there were some people complaining about the PQ over at amazon they then updated us saying there were some improvement made to the PQ via firmware update. So basically what I saying here is, we should all take this with a grain of salt because we can't rely heavenly on one bad review.
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post #480 of 16284 Old 04-03-2012, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by GeraldRommel View Post

Samsung doesn't even need to say anything. This 1. Has no use for Samsung to put it into the code to happen only for someone to discover it. 2. You can easily see when the camera is on.

I understand this and u understand this but million's of other people out there dont understand this and there too dum to just pay attention ,but no other people just want to open there mouth's off and say crazy thing's about a company that has been around for a really long time.
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