Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 370 - AVS Forum
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post #11071 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

I was having this issue until I disabled BDWise in the TV.

I also have that same problem, but have never had the BDWise feature enabled. I had to turn off the auto-3D feature the same way that Rico did. It's annoying to have to manually turn it on when needed, but better than it going into 3D mode on its own when there is no 3D signal being displayed.
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post #11072 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 03:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

Rico- I have the VSX-53 and I believe we share the same Marvell QDEO video processing in the AVR. That's a very good video processor, which is why I choose to let the Elite handle the up-conversion over the TV. I never watch SD content, so I can't comment on whether it's gotten better or not. It's crap IMO, so I don't watch it. I also don't have kids, so I'm not forced to watch it there either.

It's bad that more people don't realize the TV is upscaling everything to 1080P unless the source signal is already 1080P, which is then displayed 1:1. Not only are people using devices that upscale, and poorly, but there's a lot of duplicate processing going on, which is always going to produce an inferior picture. For example:

You should NEVER let your cable or sat box do any kind of conversion. EVER! I have been practicing this for years, so I apologize if I'm mistaken, but I don't think any of those box's convert to 1080P, so most people set them at 1080i or 720P. That's a major problem because you have the cable or sat box doing a conversion, then that signal is being sent to the TV where it's converted again to 1080P. You're essentially taking a source signal and putting it through 2 conversion processes. The cable or sat box is going to do a bad job of it too. So ideally you want the cable or sat box to send the signal untouched to the TV (or AVR) and let the TV (or AVR if you have a good one) do the only conversion of the source signal. It's only done once that way and not multiple conversions before it gets to the TV, which is always bad.

Great info.. Question, you mention that the TV is already upscaling to 1080p without anything, but why when you hit the "info" it says 1080 60i and not 60p? Only the sets I have being upscaled say 1080 60p

The issue I have is every time I turn on my TV and the receiver turns on with it, it always goes into the "TV" source and not the cable. I always have to switch it to cable. Is there a way to fix this?
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post #11073 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 03:08 PM
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+1 Jesterd. An HTPC should basically be the only device you consider doing upscaling on instead of just letting a high end TV like this one do its job. In any case, there is only so much good that can be done to a low res video signal. I certainly wouldn't spend $500 on a receiver just for video processing. I may take a punt on a receiver that is $100 more than the one I need if it supposedly had some nice video magic in it.

Have been playing with movie mode a bit and thought I would share. I'm observing that in both movie and standard, the default color controls are basically spot on, so the real room for improvement is in brightness, contrast, etc. My method is to look at the composite bright/dark checkerboard pattern slide on the WOW disk, and also the individual bright/dark star board patterns. I then take a quick look through some of the demo videos on WOW, and skip to a few test scenes in Dark Knight RIses (1:39 with Gordon in his room and Banes speech after, the scene of the Lambo driving away from Wayne mansion in whatever chapter that starts in, and the very last 10 seconds of the movie leading up to the credits).

Since movie mode has all the fancy dimming magic I tried getting a good picture with balanced brights and darks, while also turning on all the various video features. This is the best I could do with movie mode while trying to limit the annoyance of the microdimming adjusting the bottom black levels as overall scene brightness changes:
Backlight 12
Contrast 100
Brightness 52
Sharp 20
Color/Tint 50
Dynamic Contrast Low
Black Tone Dark
White balance offsets all 25
White balance gains all 45
Black Enhancer On
Color Tone Warm2
AMP Clear
LED Motion Plus On
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post #11074 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony5362 View Post

Great info.. Question, you mention that the TV is already upscaling to 1080p without anything, but why when you hit the "info" it says 1080 60i and not 60p? Only the sets I have being upscaled say 1080 60p

That's a good question and helps the misconception I'm talking about. When you hit the "Info" button on the TV, it is going to show you the info for the source, not what it's actually displaying. It's a fact that all 1080P TVs upscale anything and everything it puts on the panel at 1080P. So, it's important to decide what you're going to let do the upscaling and also limit the number of times the source signal gets converted on it's way to the TV.
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post #11075 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 03:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

That's a good question and helps the misconception I'm talking about. When you hit the "Info" button on the TV, it is going to show you the info for the source, not what it's actually displaying. It's a fact that all 1080P TVs upscale anything and everything it puts on the panel at 1080P. So, it's important to decide what you're going to let do the upscaling and also limit the number of times the source signal gets converted on it's way to the TV.


Ah! Thanks.. Yea, I think that's what confuses everyone. So on my Comcast box, I have to set The signal. Which one do I set it at? 720p or 1080i or both? Or leave the 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i all on?

10k, did you mean to say Standard setting? Because I thought Movie mode was the only one that didn't have the extra stuff
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post #11076 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 03:15 PM
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+1 Jesterd. An HTPC should basically be the only device you consider doing upscaling on instead of just letting a high end TV like this one do its job. In any case, there is only so much good that can be done to a low res video signal. I certainly wouldn't spend $500 on a receiver just for video processing. I may take a punt on a receiver that is $100 more than the one I need if it supposedly had some nice video magic in it.

I agree with you 100%! I didn't buy the AVR for the video processing. It was simply a plus that it had it. I have not decided 100% to leave it doing the processing either. Anyway, my comment wasn't meant to discuss the AVR processing, but to shine light on the fact that most people are doing all this upscaling through devices when the fact is the TV will almost always do a better job at it. Device upscaling is not a good thing like most people are led to believe.
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post #11077 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 03:19 PM
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Ah! Thanks.. Yea, I think that's what confuses everyone. So on my Comcast box, I have to set it at some resolution. Which one do I set it at? 720p or 1080i or both?

If you can with that box you want to set it to display whatever resolution the signal is being broadcast in at any particular time. My DirecTV box is set to "Source", which means it is simply sending whatever the channel is broadcasting out without touching it. So, if I'm watching FOX it will send the signal at its native 720P signal and my TV (AVR now) will upscale to 1080P. If I'm watching something else in 1080i, the DirecTV box simply sends that 1080i signal to the TV (AVR now) and it gets upscaled there. That way there is only one conversion happening during the entire trip from the DirecTV box to the TV. So to answer your question, if your box will let you, set it so that it is sending the source at whatever resolution it's getting it in and passing it on untouched.
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post #11078 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 03:19 PM
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10k, did you mean to say Standard setting? Because I thought Move was the only one that didn't have the extra stuff
I did mean Movie mode but you are correct re: micro dimming. In any case those are the movie mode settings Im going to sit on for a few days and see if I like it.

I think you were the one that posted that link about why CInema Black was disabled on our sets? That motivated me to see what I could do with all the picture enhancing/modifying options turned on to some degree. So far so good lol cool.gif

Honestly where I'm coming out though is that with the 1046 firmware these TV's are pretty damn good by default at Standard and Movie mode. Big difference from when I first got the TV.
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post #11079 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 03:22 PM
 
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I did mean Movie mode but you are correct re: micro dimming. In any case those are the movie mode settings Im going to sit on for a few days and see if I like it.

I think you were the one that posted that link about why CInema Black was disabled on our sets? That motivated me to see what I could do with all the picture enhancing/modifying options turned on to some degree. So far so good lol cool.gif

Honestly where I'm coming out though is that with the 1046 firmware these TV's are pretty damn good by default at Standard and Movie mode. Big difference from when I first got the TV.

+++1
I know man! I'm very very happy with my sets and about to buy another..lol! I'm sending the plasma back! It just doesn't have this vivid sharp, crisp picture that the LED has, I can't see all the wrinkles in the actors faces like I can with the LEDs.
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post #11080 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 03:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

If you can with that box you want to set it to display whatever resolution the signal is being broadcast in at any particular time. My DirecTV box is set to "Source", which means it is simply sending whatever the channel is broadcasting out without touching it. So, if I'm watching FOX it will send the signal at its native 720P signal and my TV (AVR now) will upscale to 1080P. If I'm watching something else in 1080i, the DirecTV box simply sends that 1080i signal to the TV (AVR now) and it gets upscaled there. That way there is only one conversion happening during the entire trip from the DirecTV box to the TV. So to answer your question, if your box will let you, set it so that it is sending the source at whatever resolution it's getting it in and passing it on untouched.

Thanks Jestered,. I just checked my Comcast sucky box and it only has "pass through" so maybe that's their way of meaning native?
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post #11081 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 03:29 PM
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Thanks Jestered,. I just checked my Comcast sucky box and it only has "pass through" so maybe that's their way of meaning native?

Yep, that's what you want! My box is "Source", meaning it's just sending the source signal exactly how it is without converting anything. Your box is "Pass Through", meaning it's just passing the signal through without touching it. They're both the same thing, just called different.
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post #11082 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 03:33 PM
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...a lousy source signal is made worse, in my opinion. when it's trying to be "upscaled." So I can understand watching the SD content with your kids. I am curious, though - - do they ever remark on how crappy the signal is?

My 3 kids are too young to really care at 1 & 2 years of age currently (one has autism and is 5) but I must admit I've given in and purchased some HD streaming episodes of their favorite show Yo Gabba Gabba just so I don't have to sit there and watch it in SD on Nick Jr. I can tell by their enthusiasm level and interest that they do notice it though when we watch the same show in HD
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I also have that same problem, but have never had the BDWise feature enabled. I had to turn off the auto-3D feature the same way that Rico did. It's annoying to have to manually turn it on when needed, but better than it going into 3D mode on its own when there is no 3D signal being displayed.

Yes I can confirm that the BD Wise feature being off doesn't solve the problem as I have always made sure to keep it off at all times

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post #11083 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 03:34 PM
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When I checked my 65" with my Onkyo upscaling it, Sd didn't look good either. Its on my 60" where the sd looks better. I would think the opposite since the receiver is upscaling to 1080p and nothing is upscaling the signal to 1080p on my 60". Its just 1080i and 720p with Comcast

Actually your TV is natively 1080p so in order to get there, something needs to upscale it. In this case, the TV. So the question always is, what piece of gear upscales better? I like the processing in the ES quite a bit, but regardless of what is turning a signal to 1080p, the bigger you stretch that SD picture, the worse it will look - which is why SD looks worse on a 65".

Edit: Crap, sorry, already gotten to.
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post #11084 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 03:57 PM
 
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Actually your TV is natively 1080p so in order to get there, something needs to upscale it. In this case, the TV. So the question always is, what piece of gear upscales better? I like the processing in the ES quite a bit, but regardless of what is turning a signal to 1080p, the bigger you stretch that SD picture, the worse it will look - which is why SD looks worse on a 65".

Edit: Crap, sorry, already gotten to.

Lol! Thanks guys.. I just disabled everything and set my cable to "pass thru" and saw that "Underworld" the awakening was on cable and omg! It looks freaking incredible! The blacks are soo black now! I'm so loving this! Lol
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post #11085 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 04:01 PM
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I also have that same problem, but have never had the BDWise feature enabled. I had to turn off the auto-3D feature the same way that Rico did. It's annoying to have to manually turn it on when needed, but better than it going into 3D mode on its own when there is no 3D signal being displayed.

I was hoping BDWise was it because I haven't seen the issue in a while. Bummer.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #11086 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 04:07 PM
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I was hoping BDWise was it because I haven't seen the issue in a while. Bummer.

What AVR are you using? Do you have the AVR set up to do the 1080P up-conversion? I'm assuming that the Elite AVR, which Rico and I are using, is doing something with the video conversion that fools the TV into thinking there's a 3D signal when it's not. The only thing I've found to stop it is to turn off the auto-enable 3D feature. Not that big of a deal, but I wished it worked normally. I might turn off the AVRs video processing to confirm that.
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post #11087 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 04:11 PM
 
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What AVR are you using? Do you have the AVR set up to do the 1080P up-conversion? I'm assuming that the Elite AVR, which Rico and I are using, is doing something with the video conversion that fools the TV into thinking there's a 3D signal when it's not. The only thing I've found to stop it is to turn off the auto-enable 3D feature. Not that big of a deal, but I wished it worked normally. I might turn off the AVRs video processing to confirm that.

It may be the AVR causing this. I think I read about this somewhere online that the Elites are doing that. I have another question, since I'm now finally happy with my sets, how do I disconnect it from the world? I can't seem to find anything to disable the wifi.
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post #11088 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 04:15 PM
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It may be the AVR causing this. I think I read about this somewhere online that the Elites are doing that. I have another question, since I'm now finally happy with my sets, how do I disconnect it from the world? I can't seem to find anything to disable the wifi.

I believe there's a setting there somewhere to disable that. If not, set the IP address manually and set it to something like 200.0.0.0. That should be way out of your wireless routers IP range, so you won't get a connection. You can also just set the subnet manually to something like 1.1.1.1 and that should keep it from getting an internet connection.
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post #11089 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 04:22 PM
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What AVR are you using? Do you have the AVR set up to do the 1080P up-conversion? I'm assuming that the Elite AVR, which Rico and I are using, is doing something with the video conversion that fools the TV into thinking there's a 3D signal when it's not. The only thing I've found to stop it is to turn off the auto-enable 3D feature. Not that big of a deal, but I wished it worked normally. I might turn off the AVRs video processing to confirm that.

I'm running an Onkyo 608. Video processing is disabled.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #11090 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 04:27 PM
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I'm running an Onkyo 608. Video processing is disabled.

Ah! Same problem, different causes I'm guessing.
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post #11091 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 04:27 PM
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It may be the AVR causing this. I think I read about this somewhere online that the Elites are doing that. I have another question, since I'm now finally happy with my sets, how do I disconnect it from the world? I can't seem to find anything to disable the wifi.

I was trying to do that last night! Very frustrating that there is not a setting to disable the wifi. I have 2 wifi networks in my home, so I configured my TV to the other network and gave it an incorrect password, this broke me out of being connected.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #11092 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 04:28 PM
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Ah! Same problem, different causes I'm guessing.

My father has an Elite SC-61, and I disabled its video processing when I set it up. I believe he still occasionally sees the 3D issue. I'll have to check with him.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #11093 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 04:35 PM
 
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I believe there's a setting there somewhere to disable that. If not, set the IP address manually and set it to something like 200.0.0.0. That should be way out of your wireless routers IP range, so you won't get a connection. You can also just set the subnet manually to something like 1.1.1.1 and that should keep it from getting an internet connection.

Thanks, that sounds like a good idea. I never thought I would want to do this, but my set looks that good now..lol

Here's a video that looks intersting for all of us Samsung fans to see

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/the-history-of-samsung-explained-in-video-50006979/
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post #11094 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 04:39 PM
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It may be the AVR causing this. I think I read about this somewhere online that the Elites are doing that. I have another question, since I'm now finally happy with my sets, how do I disconnect it from the world? I can't seem to find anything to disable the wifi.
I'm not at home so I can't tell you exactly were it is, but I know theres an option to update only manually. Auto Update maybe... All I know is my set won't update unless I go into system and physicly select the update via Wireless.. wish i could be more assistance but if you fiddle with the prefrence options you'll find it

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post #11095 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 04:57 PM
 
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I'm not at home so I can't tell you exactly were it is, but I know theres an option to update only manually. Auto Update maybe... All I know is my set won't update unless I go into system and physicly select the update via Wireless.. wish i could be more assistance but if you fiddle with the prefrence options you'll find it

Thanks Derek.. I was just trying to disable the wifi completely just in case. I'm happy to report that jestererds suggestion works! smile.gif thanks guys!
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post #11096 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 05:54 PM
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It might just be placebo after firmware update, but my 55ES8000 looks stunning tonight. This set makes me smile like my D8000 never did.
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My ES8000 settings, calibrated with an i1D3 and calman: Standard Mode, Movie Mode (out of date, will update soon)
CalMAN 5 Novice Walkthrough
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post #11097 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 06:16 PM
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RE: 3D Pioneer Elite AVR issues - I think part of the problem is that Anynet -- at least for me -- does not recognize my SC65 receiver. I did not have these issues with my Yamaha AVR.

Home Theater Setup
Samsung UN65ES8000 LCD/LED
BenQ W1080ST Projector
Pioneer SC65 (Pre-Amp)
Wyred4Sound MMC-7 Channel Amplifier, 221wpc
OPPO 103, Directv GENIE
Darbee Darblet
ALL Paradigm - 7.1 - Studio 60's, V.2 (FL/FR)
CC-690, V.5 (C)
ADP 590 V.5 (SS)
MilleniaOne 2.0 (BS) - Velodyne 810 Sub
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post #11098 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 09:07 PM
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I'm going to leave whoever cares hanging until I post my changes tomorrow, but I readjusted Movie mode and both my Standard modes (one diminishing the dreaded CE Dimming) tonight. I found some interesting changes that were bothering me, like my Movie and Standard modes no longer matching after the firmware update. I love both modes even more now than I did at any point since buying the TV. No clipping and no crushing. For those that don't have meters but do use a disc or the awesome new THX app, there is at least one AVS file that I feel is a much - the Color Clipping file. You might be surprised what you find. I use it every time. Anyway, I used The WOW BD, the THX app and the AVS files. I have to get up in less than 5 hours though so I'm off to bed for now. I'll be nice and do an actual repost of each of the three sets of settings, but as always the link in my signature will automatically link back to the current settings I use - starting tomorrow at some point.
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post #11099 of 16215 Old 01-30-2013, 10:04 PM
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and even use color clipping pattern with 3d mode. (simply run 2d->3d conversion). Probably you will find clipped red. Color clipping pattern should be used after each tweak.

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post #11100 of 16215 Old 01-31-2013, 04:15 AM
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ES8000 owners, do you have your HDMI black level set to NORMAL or LOW for xbox360 gaming ? My panel seems to want to default to LOW and it looks better than normal which looks very washed out.

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