Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 16240 Old 06-19-2012, 05:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

I finally pulled the trigger after much "test driving" and my 60" es8000 will be delivered this Saturday. Selected for picture quality only. I will play with all the "smart" features down the road. Frankly after sitting in front of 2 screens all day in my cubicle I dont want ANY convergence when watching sports, movies or documentary.
I'll report back on performance. I "pressed" many retailers into letting me view this (and others) under a variety of conditions. The 8000 has to be one of the top 3, 4 at most, flat screens on the planet.
Stoked!

Nice! congrats! You will love it. The picture quality on this beast is amazing! On page 36, Nitra has some ISF calibration settings for the ES8000 and they look really good! I was shocked on how much more detail I could see when I calibrated my set. The TV also looks super sexy. By far the sexiest TV out, in fact everyone;s first comment about the TV when they see it is "wow, that's a cool looking flat screen"
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post #1172 of 16240 Old 06-19-2012, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by nitra View Post

They all offer their own versions of AMP.
This stutter can be corrected, I'll need to dig back through the posts on the D7000 forums to find the fix, it's not an issue with the set, it's an issue with the pull down detection, your FIOS box is doubling up the pulldown detection an deinterlacing, the frames are not in the correct place, that's why it's happening.

I know this was discussed on the D7000 forum and it solved my shuttering problem. The key was to turn off the "Film Mode" setting.

I dealt with the shuttering for 3 months until someone suggested this change. The problem was gone immediately and never seen again. Others reported the same results, but keep in mind it did not work for everyone. Still worth a try.

BTW: My D7000 (60 inch) started having a picture problem. Samsung replaced it with a ES7500 (60 inch). I have been much more satified with this model and feel I got my money's worth.
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post #1173 of 16240 Old 06-19-2012, 02:22 PM
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I know this was discussed on the D7000 forum and it solved my shuttering problem. The key was to turn off the "Film Mode" setting.
I dealt with the shuttering for 3 months until someone suggested this change. The problem was gone immediately and never seen again. Others reported the same results, but keep in mind it did not work for everyone. Still worth a try.
BTW: My D7000 (60 inch) started having a picture problem. Samsung replaced it with a ES7500 (60 inch). I have been much more satified with this model and feel I got my money's worth.

Unfortunately, turning off film mode has no effect on the stuttering I experience with some channels like TNT during some shows. Even when my FiOS box is set to 720p it stutters, and film mode is unavailable when receiving 720p. I think for some reason some channels, at least on FiOS, have issues, but only with some channels. We never saw this stutter on the plasmas we tried though, so I can't figure out exactly what's going on.

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post #1174 of 16240 Old 06-19-2012, 02:24 PM
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I will need to look into it a little, but you are by far better off running at 720p rather than 1080i.

This sure seems true. I switched back and forth while watching HBO and the PQ was noticably better on 720P. Thanks for the suggestion as I assumed the opposite and had my Dish DVR set to 1080i.
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post #1175 of 16240 Old 06-19-2012, 04:39 PM
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this might be a stupid question but would the 60inch or the 55inch will have better picture quality and amaze people more? I mean when it's larger, can't you see more pixalation?
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post #1176 of 16240 Old 06-19-2012, 05:13 PM
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this might be a stupid question but would the 60inch or the 55inch will have better picture quality and amaze people more? I mean when it's larger, can't you see more pixalation?

Bigger is always better..... Despite what "she" might have you believe.
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post #1177 of 16240 Old 06-19-2012, 08:21 PM
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Bigger is always better..... Despite what "she" might have you believe.


She always tells me is how I use it (the TV)
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post #1178 of 16240 Old 06-19-2012, 11:53 PM
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She always tells me is how I use it (the TV)

+1

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post #1179 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 02:55 AM
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She always tells me is how I use it (the TV)
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+1

+1 as well, and she hates it when I try and change the settings over and over to get it just right. (The TV)
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post #1180 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by mefromfl View Post

this might be a stupid question but would the 60inch or the 55inch will have better picture quality and amaze people more? I mean when it's larger, can't you see more pixalation?

To get back on topic, in practice the pixelization really isn't an issue, the higher end models have very good CMR and it's not really noticeable. Keep in mind however, sets above 55" generally have delayed firmware releases. This has been true the last few years.
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post #1181 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 05:00 AM
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I was reading some comments on the ES7500 on Amazon and this stood out to me as seeming odd:

"The Samsung UN60ES7500 immediately blew away the biggest myth I had read of with Active 3D and that's not having enough of a viewing angle when move away from the center of the screen. In 2D and 3D TV we could see the picture fine when being on so much of angle where you wouldn't be able to see the front of the TV!"

I haven't yet tried out the 3D but I will be soon. However I can certainly comment on the viewing angle in 2D mode. I have no idea what that review is talking about because I find the 2D viewing angle on this set absolutely terrible. I realize that these types of panels don't have very good viewing angles but wow, I gotta say it's pretty bad. Really bad. If I stand up, or move just a few feet in either direction off-center, the image very quickly falls apart, to the point where I consider it unwatchable. For such an expensive set, it looks dreadful when viewing anywhere but pretty much dead-center. I'm planning on putting my general thoughts on the tv up here soon, and honestly, I think the image is stunning. All the issues I had with my plasmas are gone. No more annoying brightness pops during dark scenes (last year's D7000), no more brightness pops during bright scenes (this year's E8000). The image just looks incredible (once some settings are put in), and stable, with no fluctuations. But that viewing angle - yikes! Are all of these types of panels really this bad in that area, or do you guys consider this a poor viewing angle even for this type of set?

I'm used to my old CRT, where I could sit anywhere, stand, sit on the floor, didn't matter - it looked great from any angle. That's originally why I went with plasmas but the current generation just has too many issues in my opinion. This tv is amazing, but every time I see it from an angle, I hate it and wonder if I should keep it. Then I sit in front of it again and I'm amazed all over again. Do you guys consider the image quality on this set so good that it's worth the poor viewing angle?

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post #1182 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I was reading some comments on the ES7500 on Amazon and this stood out to me as seeming odd:
"The Samsung UN60ES7500 immediately blew away the biggest myth I had read of with Active 3D and that's not having enough of a viewing angle when move away from the center of the screen. In 2D and 3D TV we could see the picture fine when being on so much of angle where you wouldn't be able to see the front of the TV!"
I haven't yet tried out the 3D ......etc etc. Do you guys consider the image quality on this set so good that it's worth the poor viewing angle?

I will have mine delivered saturday. ...I dont care about viewing angle, I only care about the picture as seen by me from my recliner at 12-14 feet tops. The other "soldiers" sitting slightly off to side never said a word about my Sony RP LCD...... I only wanted this flat panel for picture quality. I even told the saelsman (in effort to consolidate their pitches) that I wanted a "dumb TV" with a great picture...So tired of hearing the phrase "smartTV"... Once it's setup, dialed in, and I've logged quite a few relaxing hours...then i'll take it's "brain" for drive and see how smart it is.

Love for all things Hi-def...Losing count; 200 plus bluray, 500 plus dvd, 30 plus HDdvd and a rapidly growing 50 plus in the cloud.

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post #1183 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I was reading some comments on the ES7500 on Amazon and this stood out to me as seeming odd:
"The Samsung UN60ES7500 immediately blew away the biggest myth I had read of with Active 3D and that's not having enough of a viewing angle when move away from the center of the screen. In 2D and 3D TV we could see the picture fine when being on so much of angle where you wouldn't be able to see the front of the TV!"
I haven't yet tried out the 3D but I will be soon. However I can certainly comment on the viewing angle in 2D mode. I have no idea what that review is talking about because I find the 2D viewing angle on this set absolutely terrible. I realize that these types of panels don't have very good viewing angles but wow, I gotta say it's pretty bad. Really bad. If I stand up, or move just a few feet in either direction off-center, the image very quickly falls apart, to the point where I consider it unwatchable. For such an expensive set, it looks dreadful when viewing anywhere but pretty much dead-center. I'm planning on putting my general thoughts on the tv up here soon, and honestly, I think the image is stunning. All the issues I had with my plasmas are gone. No more annoying brightness pops during dark scenes (last year's D7000), no more brightness pops during bright scenes (this year's E8000). The image just looks incredible (once some settings are put in), and stable, with no fluctuations. But that viewing angle - yikes! Are all of these types of panels really this bad in that area, or do you guys consider this a poor viewing angle even for this type of set?
I'm used to my old CRT, where I could sit anywhere, stand, sit on the floor, didn't matter - it looked great from any angle. That's originally why I went with plasmas but the current generation just has too many issues in my opinion. This tv is amazing, but every time I see it from an angle, I hate it and wonder if I should keep it. Then I sit in front of it again and I'm amazed all over again. Do you guys consider the image quality on this set so good that it's worth the poor viewing angle?

Viewing angles is an issue on all of these panels (LCD/LED), in fact, the ES series isn't nearly as bad as last years models, and this year, the off angle viewing is much better.
I've had every model from the A series and now the ES series, from the Edge Lit panels, the ES is win. The Sonys and LG's I'd consider worse.
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post #1184 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 07:52 AM
 
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Nitra, what do you know about getting stuck pixels to work? I just noticed I have a pixel on my screen that stays green. I am still within my 30 day exchange window so I can exchange it. I don't even notice it unless I look very closely. I'm debating on not even worrying about it but since I know its there it bugs me. Any ideas on how I can kick that pixel back in gear? I just don't want to go through the hassle of bringing the TV back and exchanging and putting all of the calibrations etc. in.
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post #1185 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 07:54 AM
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Nitra, what do you know about getting stuck pixels to work? I just noticed I have a pixel on my screen that stays green. I am still within my 30 day exchange window so I can exchange it. I don't even notice it unless I look very closely. I'm debating on not even worrying about it but since I know its there it bugs me. Any ideas on how I can kick that pixel back in gear? I just don't want to go through the hassle of bringing the TV back and exchanging and putting al the calibrations etc in.
Exchange it, if it was a stuck pixel, it would have generally started working in a few days, you've had your set a while now, exchange it.
Depending on the store, I'd call them and see if they can arrange for an exchange, will save you the trip to the store.
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post #1186 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 08:00 AM
 
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OK, I think I will do that. It just bugs the crap out of me, even though you don't even really notice it. I got it from Best Buy. I will call them and see if they can arrange something, if not I will just bring it there and do the exchange.
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post #1187 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 08:01 AM
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Make sure they have stock.
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post #1188 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 10:02 AM
 
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Yeah, they have stock. They wont arrange something with me unless they charge me extra for that. Since I did not initially get it delivered they would charge me. I am just going to swap it tonight when I get out of work. First thing Im going to do is check for dead pixels! I just hope th enext set is flawless. The banding and clouding was good with this set, its just the dead pixel that is getting me.
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post #1189 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 01:05 PM
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Regarding off angle viewing, my girlfriend's folks' $500 2-year-old Vizio LCD has a fantastic viewing angle - when I see their set at a very wide angle the image remains virtually the same - I own the ES8000 yet when I see their crappy Vizio I get jealous because they have such an awesome viewing angle. I used to have my friend come over to watch my plasma with me in my small apartment and I'd sit in my usual spot and he'd pull up a chair and he could see the screen fine. With this tv that's not gonna happen. At his angle he would be seeing a far inferior image to what I would be seeing.

Now looking at the LG lm8600, which seems to be comparable in many ways to this set, the off angle viewing is said to be much better. I know there are other things to consider, but I'm just wondering what the point of having the best image is when it only counts when you look directly at it from dead-center, and then off-angle the whole image degrades rapidly, when the LG may or may not have a slightly inferior image overall but retains that image at wide viewing angles. In that regard, wouldn't the LG be the superior set overall for being able to be viewed from different areas in the room other than dead-center?

I watch the tv sometimes from where I sit at my pc, and at that angle, the tv looks awful. Sometimes I watch tv while I'm cooking and walking back and forth to look at the tv - and standing up and walking around the screen look awful too. And when I sit on the floor to play a board game with my girlfriend, or to wrap presents, it looks awful. It only looks good from dead-center. In practical terms, it sounds like the LGs have the advantage because they are more practical in how they can be viewed - they may not beat the ES8000 from dead-center, but take 3 steps to the side, and then tell me who has the better image.

That's the issue I'm debating. Otherwise I love this set.

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post #1190 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 01:32 PM
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Eagle_2, I have the 60es7500. I find that off angle viewing is pretty damn good on my set. I'm not sure why you are having such issues. In fact, most people seem to think that off angle viewing is pretty good this year with Samsung. Could there be something defective about your set? The way you are describing your off angle viewing, I can't imagine we are looking at the same thing. Maybe some people are more sensitive?

This is directed towards anyone.

I'm a new owner of the 60es7500. Great set. I have very minor flashlighting and a bit of clouding that I'm hopeful will go away with breakin. I'm using Nitra's settings for the most part. My question is that my lg and Sony have a way to fit an sd picture to the entire screen without messing with zooming. The Samsung's fit to screen seems to keep the sd image 4:3. Is there a way to set the settings so that SD images fit to 16:9 screen as well? I thought the lg did a great job of scaling.
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post #1191 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 01:50 PM
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Well I'm pretty sure there's nothing defective with my tv that's causing the poor viewing angle, especially when if you look back at the beginning of the thread there are others who have mentioned the poor off-angle viewing. Some may not notice it but I can't image how you wouldn't, it's so obvious. And I'm surprised that this is considered acceptable when I can look at my girlfriend's folks' Vizio LCD from a very sharp angle and it still retains the same image with virtually no difference in the image. By contrast, this set loses its gorgeous image almost immediately with a few steps in either direction, and even standing up I notice it beginning to shift (and I"m only 5'7").

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post #1192 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Regarding off angle viewing, my girlfriend's folks' $500 2-year-old Vizio LCD has a fantastic viewing angle - when I see their set at a very wide angle the image remains virtually the same - I own the ES8000 yet when I see their crappy Vizio I get jealous because they have such an awesome viewing angle. I used to have my friend come over to watch my plasma with me in my small apartment and I'd sit in my usual spot and he'd pull up a chair and he could see the screen fine. With this tv that's not gonna happen. At his angle he would be seeing a far inferior image to what I would be seeing.
Now looking at the LG lm8600, which seems to be comparable in many ways to this set, the off angle viewing is said to be much better. I know there are other things to consider, but I'm just wondering what the point of having the best image is when it only counts when you look directly at it from dead-center, and then off-angle the whole image degrades rapidly, when the LG may or may not have a slightly inferior image overall but retains that image at wide viewing angles. In that regard, wouldn't the LG be the superior set overall for being able to be viewed from different areas in the room other than dead-center?
I watch the tv sometimes from where I sit at my pc, and at that angle, the tv looks awful. Sometimes I watch tv while I'm cooking and walking back and forth to look at the tv - and standing up and walking around the screen look awful too. And when I sit on the floor to play a board game with my girlfriend, or to wrap presents, it looks awful. It only looks good from dead-center. In practical terms, it sounds like the LGs have the advantage because they are more practical in how they can be viewed - they may not beat the ES8000 from dead-center, but take 3 steps to the side, and then tell me who has the better image.
That's the issue I'm debating. Otherwise I love this set.

The LCD/LED sets from LG and Panasonic (who may be using LG's panels for LCD TVs) have a wider viewing angle because they use a different type of LCD panel technology.
Buts its a trade off, those LCD panels with wider viewing angle have far worse black levels.
The Samsung LCD/LED panels have superior black levels but poor viewing angles, especially compared to old CRTs and plasmas.
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post #1193 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Joxer View Post

The LCD/LED sets from LG and Panasonic (who may be using LG's panels for LCD TVs) have a wider viewing angle because they use a different type of LCD panel technology.
Buts its a trade off, those LCD panels with wider viewing angle have far worse black levels.
The Samsung LCD/LED panels have superior black levels but poor viewing angles, especially compared to old CRTs and plasmas.

I think the IPS panels (LG, etc) have a little better reference color as well.
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post #1194 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 02:35 PM
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The LCD/LED sets from LG and Panasonic (who may be using LG's panels for LCD TVs) have a wider viewing angle because they use a different type of LCD panel technology.
Buts its a trade off, those LCD panels with wider viewing angle have far worse black levels.
The Samsung LCD/LED panels have superior black levels but poor viewing angles, especially compared to old CRTs and plasmas.

From what I've read in comments and reviews about the LG lm8600 the black levels are not far worse, but rather quite close to the ES8000. And again, how are those ES8000 black levels when you step 3 feet to the side? At even a feet feet off center, the blacks totally fall apart while the LG will retain it's levels.

So dead-center, the ES8000 would have possibly better blacks. From a few feet off angle the LG would beat the Samsung hands down. I'm not trying to bash the ES8000, just trying to think logically about what will be the most practical tv for me. Image quality and motion is very important to me, and that's why it seems impractical to have a tv that only retains its good image from 1 position. Overall I am thinking IPS panels offer the better overall viewing experience. Subjective black level numbers don't mean much when it comes to real-world viewing in the living room. If the LG delivers close to the same black levels as the ES8000, plus has a much wider viewing angle, then the LG sounds more practical.

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post #1195 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Regarding off angle viewing, my girlfriend's folks' $500 2-year-old Vizio LCD has a fantastic viewing angle - when I see their set at a very wide angle the image remains virtually the same - I own the ES8000 yet when I see their crappy Vizio I get jealous because they have such an awesome viewing angle. I used to have my friend come over to watch my plasma with me in my small apartment and I'd sit in my usual spot and he'd pull up a chair and he could see the screen fine. With this tv that's not gonna happen. At his angle he would be seeing a far inferior image to what I would be seeing.
Now looking at the LG lm8600, which seems to be comparable in many ways to this set, the off angle viewing is said to be much better. I know there are other things to consider, but I'm just wondering what the point of having the best image is when it only counts when you look directly at it from dead-center, and then off-angle the whole image degrades rapidly, when the LG may or may not have a slightly inferior image overall but retains that image at wide viewing angles. In that regard, wouldn't the LG be the superior set overall for being able to be viewed from different areas in the room other than dead-center?
I watch the tv sometimes from where I sit at my pc, and at that angle, the tv looks awful. Sometimes I watch tv while I'm cooking and walking back and forth to look at the tv - and standing up and walking around the screen look awful too. And when I sit on the floor to play a board game with my girlfriend, or to wrap presents, it looks awful. It only looks good from dead-center. In practical terms, it sounds like the LGs have the advantage because they are more practical in how they can be viewed - they may not beat the ES8000 from dead-center, but take 3 steps to the side, and then tell me who has the better image.
That's the issue I'm debating. Otherwise I love this set.

Eagle,

I've been doing alot of research on this issue and if you are looking for a tv with a very wide viewing angle, I would recommend the Panasonic 65VT50. From what I've heard, and seen first hand at Best Buy, the viewing angle is incredible on this set. You can pretty much go completely to one side of the TV and it still looks as if you're sitting right in front of it. Don't get me wrong, this tv will not be without it's issues as well, but from what you're saying, this might be the way to go. It has incredibly deep black levels, much better than last years VT30 in regards to bright room peformance, and the motion is said to be almost as good as the Samsung. For what you paid on either your 55 or 60" ES8000, you could get the 65" VT50 for the same price or just a tad bit more.

If you get a chance, try and check one out at a store to see for yourself. I'm not a big plasma fan, but I'm really considering this one when I'm ready to buy again. Just my two cents.

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post #1196 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 02:54 PM
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^^^what eagle isn't mentioning is that he's already tried and returned multiple TVs...if I'm not mistaken, a 2011 Samsung plasma, a Panasonic ST50, a Samsung E8000, and now a Samsung ES8000. I understand each TV has issues, but pick a set and learn to live with its flaws already, man. Each technology and even LCD panel type has their own shortcomings...but don't you think you've already created enough open box items that your dealer has to discount ? I hope if you try an LG next, you'll like it. But I can imagine reading a post from you complaining about the lack of contrast compared to the ES800 and the lighter black levels.

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post #1197 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 05:51 PM
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^^^

I have indeed mentioned earlier that I have tried both a Panasonic and a Samsung plasma and I felt that the plasmas had issues I wasn't comfortable with (the ST50 forces soap opera effect if you feed it any 24Hz content, and the 3D detection of SBS files is terrible). The E8000 had very annoying brightness pops. This tv has none of those issues, or any issues that were so annoying with the plasmas.

It's not unreasonable to expect a $2,000 to $3,000 tv to meet expectations. And I didn't say I was returning this set. All I said was I was considering my options. And, by the way, every time I returned a set to create an "open box", I purchased a more expensive tv - this tv right now, the ES8000, cost over $450 more than the E8000 plasma we returned. So it's not like I'm costing the store grief - if anything it's costing me grief, as we have spent more money every time we try another set.

I have stated a couple times already that I'm blown away by the image quality of this set. I thought this was an owner's thread, where owners could express their thoughts and concerns, not just a thread for fans.

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post #1198 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 06:48 PM
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I'm far from being a fan of the ES8000, but that really isn't what I'm talking about here. All I'm saying is that a lot of your posts in owner's threads are complaining about something egregiously unacceptable you find in a display. The poor viewing angles of VA panel-based tvs like the ES8K are widely known, and it's something that isn't difficult to test out pre-purchase. LG IPS panels can't compete in black level and contrast with those from Samsung. You can read the CNet review of the LG LM6700 in regards to black levels to see what they thought of it before you make another exchange.

Not that it matters, but the difference you spend when you exchange a TV is probably outweighed by 1) the cost of your retailer having to waste space in their warehouse for more open merchandise, 2)the time an employee has to take to inspect it and make sure it's in working order, and last, but not least, 3) the moderate to large discount they have to take off the current selling price in order to move the merchandise that you returned.

I really do you find a TV to be happy with, if you choose to keep the ES8000 or exchange it for something else. But keep in mind that any display you choose is going to have something you aren't going to like about it, no matter how much you spend.

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post #1199 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 07:06 PM
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im thinkin of getting the 55es8000 or the es7500 i have a vt50 panny and its a beautiful picture but i want another tv a led to use for my computer monitor and as my second tv what is the pros and cons anything will help there isnt many reviews about both of them anything would help and have you seen a vt50 and es8000 side by side
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post #1200 of 16240 Old 06-20-2012, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

I'm far from being a fan of the ES8000, but that really isn't what I'm talking about here. All I'm saying is that a lot of your posts in owner's threads are complaining about something egregiously unacceptable you find in a display. The poor viewing angles of VA panel-based tvs like the ES8K are widely known, and it's something that isn't difficult to test out pre-purchase. LG IPS panels can't compete in black level and contrast with those from Samsung. You can read the CNet review of the LG LM6700 in regards to black levels to see what they thought of it before you make another exchange.
Not that it matters, but the difference you spend when you exchange a TV is probably outweighed by 1) the cost of your retailer having to waste space in their warehouse for more open merchandise, 2)the time an employee has to take to inspect it and make sure it's in working order, and last, but not least, 3) the moderate to large discount they have to take off the current selling price in order to move the merchandise that you returned.
I really do you find a TV to be happy with, if you choose to keep the ES8000 or exchange it for something else. But keep in mind that any display you choose is going to have something you aren't going to like about it, no matter how much you spend.

Well I do understand that no set is perfect. For me, the plasmas have too much going against them in this current generation. For some the issues may not be that big of a deal. It all depends on what they want out of a tv. For me, the ST50 was out (and the other Pansonic plasmas) due to forced frame interpolation that you can't disable with 24p content, plus lousy 3D SBS support. The E8000 plasma looked pretty stunning but the brightness pops were driving me nuts, since I find image instability very distracting. The Panasonic LCDs get a dreadful rating from CNET - I was surprised how harsh CNET was with their black levels, so those I wouldn't even consider. That left Samsung and LG (not a Sony fan in general).

At any rate, I did get a chance to check out several LGs this evening, and it's of course virtually impossible to judge image quality in a showroom with such lousy content and horrible settings, but I did manage to play around a bit with basic settings. It appeared to me actually that the viewing angle wasn't a heck of a lot better than the Samsungs nearby. The angles were certainly a bit better but still not as good as my girlfriend's folks' 2-year-old Vizio. Maybe it's because the Vizio is back lit not edge-lit? Whatever the reason, the LG models' viewing angles didn't seem too much better overall than the ES7500, just a small improvement. Honestly it doesn't seem worth the effort or hassle to try an LG, and overall we're so impressed with the ES7500 that I think this is what we're staying with.

Some thoughts so far on the ES7500 (sorry if I called it the ES8000 earlier, I meant ES7500):

It doesn't have any of the instability issues of the Samsung plasmas - the image never fluctuates. It's rock solid. Beautiful color when tweaked just right. The detail and sharpness is unbelievable (with the sharpness setting on 0). The sound is loud and crisp, with some nice adjustments available. The speakers are actually far better than those in the E8000 plasma we returned - we had to crank the audio way way up to hear - with this set an audio level of 30 or 35 is plenty loud much of the time. I find myself just flipping through the channels and looking at random stations just taking in all the amazing images I'm seeing. Deep black levels, too, with all the enhancement settings off. When I watched Alien the other night on Blu-ray I was amazed at home cinematic it looked in 24p. Absolutely no nasty soap opera effect or annoying motion, just natural film motion. I really didn't think an LCD could offer an image this impressive, especially with a dark film like Alien. It was truly cinematic. As far as flashlighting and clouding, we do have a bit of mild flashlighting, but nothing close to how bad last year's Samsung LCDs were when we gave them a try. My girlfriend didn't even want to keep last year's LCDs, they had that much light bleed. Our ES7500 has a bit of clouding too, like 6 different spots actually that we can count, but with the backlighting on 8, it goes down to a point that it's virtually impossible to see with normal bright content. During Alien, we could certainly see the clouding during the darker scenes, but it was quite easy to ignore after a while, and the image is so gorgeous you just want to forgive it. My girlfriend noticed that there is one spot above the Samsung logo where 2 different blotches seem to almost make a fairly large "V" shape. The Samsung logo is turned off in the menu so that's not the cause. Very slight banding but not really even bands so much as just some vertical blemishes that are nearly invisible. You do tend to notice that at times during panning shots if the background is a solid color or sky or all grass like in sports, but it's very very minor. Using the grey uniformity slide posted in this thread, the screen looks very good and surprisingly uniform. I was expecting the screen to look pretty bad with the slide but it looks quite good. Overall the screen isn't perfect but we're willing to ignore it since it's far far less annoying than the screen popping in brightness every time the screen gets bright. For an LCD I think the screen uniformity is fantastic.

I love the remotes - they both work nicely, though I find myself using the standard remote most of the time. The touch is nice to experiment with, and I may find myself using it more as time goes on. I love the swivel stand. Very useful. I mentioned earlier the artifacting caused by using the blur reduction feature - though it reduces blur it also causes artifacting especially around text or graphics, so I leave it off. It might work out great for sports though as I definitely noticed a difference when checking out a bit of hockey and basketball with it enabled. For films I'd definitely leave it off. The voice works fairly well actually but we'll probably leave it off most of the time so it doesn't get accidentally triggered. But it was kind of cool. The motion control is a joke. With every lamp in my room on bright, the camera still wouldn't calibrate for me or recognize my hands waving back and forth. They should have just left out the motion control. The menus and interface are slick, and the dual processor makes the pop-up menus and other boxes very smooth - they sort of just slide up and down from the screen. Very nice.

I'm glad I got away from plasma. I think they're great for some people, but it's such a relief to not even have to think about image retention anymore. It's like a weight has been lifted off me. I'm just enjoying the set without freaking out over network logos and black letterbox/pillarbox bars. And now I can game without worry. And surf the net. I know I've been worried about the viewing angles but after seeing that the current LGs aren't much better, I think we've found a winner here.

I see there is a ES7500 thread but there seems to be little happening over there. I will probably post my thoughts over there as well and hopefully the thread will grow as more purchase the set. But since this thread seems to talk about that model too I figured this was appropriate to share my thoughts. I don't know how much better the ES8000 is with the local dimming ultimate - I know it has like double the zones, but I really can't imagine a set looking too much better overall.

I can't wait to try out some 3D next. And gaming.

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