Originally Posted by fatuglyguy
I'm far from being a fan of the ES8000, but that really isn't what I'm talking about here. All I'm saying is that a lot of your posts in owner's threads are complaining about something egregiously unacceptable you find in a display. The poor viewing angles of VA panel-based tvs like the ES8K are widely known, and it's something that isn't difficult to test out pre-purchase. LG IPS panels can't compete in black level and contrast with those from Samsung. You can read the CNet review of the LG LM6700 in regards to black levels to see what they thought of it before you make another exchange.
Not that it matters, but the difference you spend when you exchange a TV is probably outweighed by 1) the cost of your retailer having to waste space in their warehouse for more open merchandise, 2)the time an employee has to take to inspect it and make sure it's in working order, and last, but not least, 3) the moderate to large discount they have to take off the current selling price in order to move the merchandise that you returned.
I really do you find a TV to be happy with, if you choose to keep the ES8000 or exchange it for something else. But keep in mind that any display you choose is going to have something you aren't going to like about it, no matter how much you spend.
Well I do understand that no set is perfect. For me, the plasmas have too much going against them in this current generation. For some the issues may not be that big of a deal. It all depends on what they want out of a tv. For me, the ST50 was out (and the other Pansonic plasmas) due to forced frame interpolation that you can't disable with 24p content, plus lousy 3D SBS support. The E8000 plasma looked pretty stunning but the brightness pops were driving me nuts, since I find image instability very distracting. The Panasonic LCDs get a dreadful rating from CNET - I was surprised how harsh CNET was with their black levels, so those I wouldn't even consider. That left Samsung and LG (not a Sony fan in general).
At any rate, I did get a chance to check out several LGs this evening, and it's of course virtually impossible to judge image quality in a showroom with such lousy content and horrible settings, but I did manage to play around a bit with basic settings. It appeared to me actually that the viewing angle wasn't a heck of a lot better than the Samsungs nearby. The angles were certainly a bit better but still not as good as my girlfriend's folks' 2-year-old Vizio. Maybe it's because the Vizio is back lit not edge-lit? Whatever the reason, the LG models' viewing angles didn't seem too much better overall than the ES7500, just a small improvement. Honestly it doesn't seem worth the effort or hassle to try an LG, and overall we're so impressed with the ES7500 that I think this is what we're staying with.
Some thoughts so far on the ES7500 (sorry if I called it the ES8000 earlier, I meant ES7500):
It doesn't have any of the instability issues of the Samsung plasmas - the image never fluctuates. It's rock solid. Beautiful color when tweaked just right. The detail and sharpness is unbelievable (with the sharpness setting on 0). The sound is loud and crisp, with some nice adjustments available. The speakers are actually far better than those in the E8000 plasma we returned - we had to crank the audio way way up to hear - with this set an audio level of 30 or 35 is plenty loud much of the time. I find myself just flipping through the channels and looking at random stations just taking in all the amazing images I'm seeing. Deep black levels, too, with all the enhancement settings off. When I watched Alien the other night on Blu-ray I was amazed at home cinematic it looked in 24p. Absolutely no nasty soap opera effect or annoying motion, just natural film motion. I really didn't think an LCD could offer an image this impressive, especially with a dark film like Alien. It was truly cinematic. As far as flashlighting and clouding, we do have a bit of mild flashlighting, but nothing close to how bad last year's Samsung LCDs were when we gave them a try. My girlfriend didn't even want to keep last year's LCDs, they had that much light bleed. Our ES7500 has a bit of clouding too, like 6 different spots actually that we can count, but with the backlighting on 8, it goes down to a point that it's virtually impossible to see with normal bright content. During Alien, we could certainly see the clouding during the darker scenes, but it was quite easy to ignore after a while, and the image is so gorgeous you just want to forgive it. My girlfriend noticed that there is one spot above the Samsung logo where 2 different blotches seem to almost make a fairly large "V" shape. The Samsung logo is turned off in the menu so that's not the cause. Very slight banding but not really even bands so much as just some vertical blemishes that are nearly invisible. You do tend to notice that at times during panning shots if the background is a solid color or sky or all grass like in sports, but it's very very minor. Using the grey uniformity slide posted in this thread, the screen looks very good and surprisingly uniform. I was expecting the screen to look pretty bad with the slide but it looks quite good. Overall the screen isn't perfect but we're willing to ignore it since it's far far less annoying than the screen popping in brightness every time the screen gets bright. For an LCD I think the screen uniformity is fantastic.
I love the remotes - they both work nicely, though I find myself using the standard remote most of the time. The touch is nice to experiment with, and I may find myself using it more as time goes on. I love the swivel stand. Very useful. I mentioned earlier the artifacting caused by using the blur reduction feature - though it reduces blur it also causes artifacting especially around text or graphics, so I leave it off. It might work out great for sports though as I definitely noticed a difference when checking out a bit of hockey and basketball with it enabled. For films I'd definitely leave it off. The voice works fairly well actually but we'll probably leave it off most of the time so it doesn't get accidentally triggered. But it was kind of cool. The motion control is a joke. With every lamp in my room on bright, the camera still wouldn't calibrate for me or recognize my hands waving back and forth. They should have just left out the motion control. The menus and interface are slick, and the dual processor makes the pop-up menus and other boxes very smooth - they sort of just slide up and down from the screen. Very nice.
I'm glad I got away from plasma. I think they're great for some people, but it's such a relief to not even have to think about image retention anymore. It's like a weight has been lifted off me. I'm just enjoying the set without freaking out over network logos and black letterbox/pillarbox bars. And now I can game without worry. And surf the net. I know I've been worried about the viewing angles but after seeing that the current LGs aren't much better, I think we've found a winner here.
I see there is a ES7500 thread but there seems to be little happening over there. I will probably post my thoughts over there as well and hopefully the thread will grow as more purchase the set. But since this thread seems to talk about that model too I figured this was appropriate to share my thoughts. I don't know how much better the ES8000 is with the local dimming ultimate - I know it has like double the zones, but I really can't imagine a set looking too much better overall.
I can't wait to try out some 3D next. And gaming.