Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 403 - AVS Forum
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post #12061 of 16274 Old 02-08-2013, 11:51 PM
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I have another not totally on subject question but wanted your opinions. My Sony BD players BDP-CX960 and BDP-S790, the Denon AVR-A100 and of course the TV all can convert a lower resolution video source to 1080P. Any thoughts as to which would provide the best picture. At the moment, I let the Denon up-convert lower resolution signals1.gif
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post #12062 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post

That might actually be one of the worst banding cases I've seen yet on these Samsungs. Horizontal banding from top to bottom with a nice wide vertical band smack dab in the middle. That one needs to go back ASAP.

Dude I would not have a bar of that, the banding is horrific. No way I'd pass my dollars Samsung's way and accept that.

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post #12063 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by 10k View Post

Turboman,
Thanks again for the comments, I really appreciate your time in looking things over and giving your thoughts. I agree that post is a bad calibration. I have spent a few hours doing it all over again. One question I have is that you have said that you should not use GAINS in white balance to correct gamma curve. You also mention above that 10pt should not be used to correct gamma curve. What is the best way to adjust gamma curve then? Is it limited to backlight, brightness, contrast, and OFFSETS? Using those three I have been trying to calibrate the set by adjusting backlight/contrast to get to 30ftl while also having minimum brightness. Looking at gamma graph, it looks like the R,G,B components of gamma graph (the logarithmic graph, not luminance) split apart if you have contrast too high (90% gamma) or brightness too low (10% gamma).

If I reduce backlight to say 10, then in order to get a razor straight gamma graph I need to end up using contrast of about 73 and brightness of over 45, resulting in total contrast of less than <1,000:1, which seems pretty low.

You asked earlier which patterns I am using, I am using the 10% window patterns in AVS forum disc. Also, thank you for the pointer to the newer HCFR, I just got the new version of that yesterday.

One interesting thing I have noticed is that my display appears to be set for gamma 2.5 at GAMMA=0 in menu. I have to do GAMMA=+2 to get gamma 2.2. I will post a new set of settings which hopefully have minimal/no 10p adjustments in the next hours/day. Cheers all.

Jestered, how are your meter adventures going?
hello 10k
I would not worry about getting an absolute straight gamma. But your original gamma curve with the slope, that was a bit too much. That kind of gamma slope should not be corrected with the 10p white balance. The ES8000 is quite capable of a good straight gamma without corrections. I have seen a good gamma curve from Jestered. And see my post 8007 as well.
I cannot explain your original gamma curve with the slope. Maybe the patterns as we discussed. But that slope should not be corrected with brightness, contrast or 10p-adjustment.
I would suggest to go back to your original calibration settings but do it with DNLA or USB patterns. Lets see what the results are and take it from there.
Take care
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post #12064 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ackergwj View Post

I have another not totally on subject question but wanted your opinions. My Sony BD players BDP-CX960 and BDP-S790, the Denon AVR-A100 and of course the TV all can convert a lower resolution video source to 1080P. Any thoughts as to which would provide the best picture. At the moment, I let the Denon up-convert lower resolution signals...
I have a Sammy 3D BluRay player via HDMI into the DenonAVRA100 for films (Denon A100 player via DenonLink for music). In the AVR I have scaling off, but convert on. To my eye it doesn't seem to make much difference in PQ to turn convert off, except that when convert is off the Denon OSD is lost. I hope you'll try an A/B to see for yourself and let me know what you see.

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post #12065 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

I have a Sammy 3D BluRay player via HDMI into the DenonAVRA100 for films (Denon A100 player via DenonLink for music). In the AVR I have scaling off, but convert on. To my eye it doesn't seem to make much difference in PQ to turn convert off, except that when convert is off the Denon OSD is lost. I hope you'll try an A/B to see for yourself and let me know what you see.

There was a discussion about this recently in this thread. Basically, unless you feel that the source device is going to do a better job of upscaling the signal than your TV will, then turn off all that upscaling in the devices and simply let the TV do it by itself. Also, the TV is almost always going to be the better choice when deciding what is going to upscale the signal. You really don't want anything messing with the signal before it gets to the TV, so don't let all these upscaling devices do anything to the signal and just pass it on to the TV.
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post #12066 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 08:24 AM
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lbass, as others said, that banding and blotching is completely unacceptable. It's shameful that a screen like that can end up in a store for sale. Companies have done a great job over the years of conditioning users to accept more and more flaws in their brand new devices. 10, 20 years ago, nobody would ever have accepted a defect like that on a brand new tv - screens certainly weren't as sharp as these HDTVs, but CRT screens were pretty flawless for what they were, even cheap ones like my old Sansai. And they were seemingly impervious to scratches due to the thick glass screen. I never owned a CRT with any visible imperfections or flaws, and I always bought cheaper brands too (I think my old Magnavox was the closest thing to a good name brand CRT I owned). Once, I bought a CRT and there was a spot in the middle, it went back and the replacement was perfect. Now, every screen on the market is just expected to have any number of different flaws. It's too bad quality control is so low on the priority list of even the biggest and best companies.
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post #12067 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattoc59 View Post

So how many of you ES8000 owners have seen an improvement in clouding and flashlighting with the latest firmware update?

Flashlighting has not been a problem for me but clouding certainly has, and unfortunately for me it hasn't improved one bit, even with the latest update. I own the ES7500.
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post #12068 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

There was a discussion about this recently in this thread. Basically, unless you feel that the source device is going to do a better job of upscaling the signal than your TV will, then turn off all that upscaling in the devices and simply let the TV do it by itself. Also, the TV is almost always going to be the better choice when deciding what is going to upscale the signal. You really don't want anything messing with the signal before it gets to the TV, so don't let all these upscaling devices do anything to the signal and just pass it on to the TV.
Yes, agreed, and that recent discussion here echoes standard good advice I've seen in other threads.
And it's easy to compare them for oneself with one's gear, as YMMV.smile.gif

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post #12069 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 09:15 AM
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I better get the 8000 since other owners pair that with the A100 smile.gif I was in the local Best Buy last night and me and the wifey looked at the 55" 8000. Looked nice BTW. Why is it you can get the 55" at local BB but not the larger models? Just curious.

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post #12070 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

There was a discussion about this recently in this thread. Basically, unless you feel that the source device is going to do a better job of upscaling the signal than your TV will, then turn off all that upscaling in the devices and simply let the TV do it by itself. Also, the TV is almost always going to be the better choice when deciding what is going to upscale the signal. You really don't want anything messing with the signal before it gets to the TV, so don't let all these upscaling devices do anything to the signal and just pass it on to the TV.

Let me add my two cents. I process everything through my Pioneer SC65 - with Marvell QDEO processing. I prefer the picture and all source material, including my Directv STB, Sony Bluray BDP S790 and my Micca EP350 Medial Player, to go through the upscaling from my Pioneer receiver.

I have looked at the picture - with and without (easily toggle of a button on the remote) and it looks better to me with the QDEO processing.

I can tell you this - - I had a freebie movie from VUDU (HDX - 1080P) that I tried out last night (Flight - another fine movie from Denzel Washington.)

Guess what? I compared the picture from my Sammy 65" TV (streaming - no upscaling via my receiver) versus through my Sony BDP S790, with processing, and there was no comparison - - the picture via my Sony Bluray player was heads and above clearer with better colors. Same connection to both - - ethernet hardwire. Audio was the same - -since I am using "ARC" - I received a Dolby Digital Plus feed from both sources.

So - IMHO - I believe it really has to do with what type of processor you have. And I stream everything through my Bluray player.

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post #12071 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 10:39 AM
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FirmWare 1046.2 performance update:

All, I have been buried in this tv for the past week since doing my first FW upgrade from my original 1013.2 that came with the tv back in June 2012.

First, regarding "reset". I firmly believe it's nessessary to do afull reset from within the "Support" menue, then "self diagnose", then the "reset" option that requires a password entry. I only did restes from within each input however while enjoying the great benefits of the FW update I did see some odd behaviour with regard to motion, jitter and blurr in od places as well as the vertical edge of picture. It had a very subtle fraying effect at times on action and panning. I almost remorsed my decision to run the update until i did the proper full reset.

Full Reset has resolved those issues. It puts you back to the startup mode as to when you turned the tv on for the first time. Right or wrong of whether we should have to do the full reset after a fw upgrade really is not the question. Just do it.

Okay, the FW has still definately been an excellent upgrade to a picture quality that I thought was amazing already.
-Flashlight, although minimal and tolerable prior to the update, it truly is almost completely gone in 2D to the point of 99.99999 gone if that makes sense...
-Blacks are definately deeper while maintaining excellent shadow detail. Very plasma ish looking blacks w/o dithering etc. CSI Vegas has never looked so crazy vivid and detailed at night as it did this week...
-Letterbox bars are absolutely deeper and more uniformly black...
-Audio, I swear I hear richer and more detailed audio being output from the tv to my soundbar
-Color ir somewhat richer and i absolutely notice more detail and texture in hot colors such as fuscia, red and orange garments

I love this update. Truly the tv is ready for "the reviewers" to revisit...not that I ever cared what they said. Any plasma owner looking at this now will be stunned.

Love for all things Hi-def...Losing count; 200 plus bluray, 500 plus dvd, 30 plus HDdvd and a rapidly growing 50 plus in the cloud.

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post #12072 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Flashlighting has not been a problem for me but clouding certainly has, and unfortunately for me it hasn't improved one bit, even with the latest update. I own the ES7500.

E2 - since the latest firmware update (1046.2), I wholly endorse Bladerunner1959's comments right down the line on PQ, flashlighting, colors and black levels. I am seeing the same thing on my 65" Sammy set. Absolutely stunning!

So why aren't other folks seeing the same dramatic improvement? I can only surmise that it has to do with the panel size (processing/zones?) or you are not in "Standard" mode with mostly default settings.

I have been watching the direction of this thread for the past couple of days and the focus on "calibration" has been interesting. I'm all for it - - I believe the participation on this forum, world wide, is nothing short of amazing.

Way back in the infancy of this thread, when the Nitra's of the world were around, I experimented with multiple settings. Nitra's, Garnoch's and a couple others. Turboman123's "Movie" settings where the first time that I could ever get "Movie" to look right on my TV (and get rid of the crushed black detail.)

But as the firmware updates progressed - - I began to notice that the picture wasn't as vibrant. So, about a month ago, I switched back to "Default - Standard" settings. It looked better but the real game changer was 1046.2. Now, my "Sharpness" is at 20, "Backlight" at 10, "Contrast" at 90, "Brightness" at 40 with "Auto" Custom Color - "Standard" color - - and I couldn't be happier. No more black crush! I can see movie credits (they must have done something with the dimming and I'm not sure it translates to all Sammy models)

Lastly - - I believe the firmware updates can really mess with calibrated settings. I can't confirm that - - there are many knowledgeable folks on this forum who are using meters and sophisticated software to really dial in their picture who can provide a better answer to that. But for the masses - - those who like the Ron Popeil - "Set It And Forget It" approach - the improvement in PQ via firmware updates is greatly appreciated by me.

And...since I will be adding a projector to my HT setup (for Cinemascope - 2.35 to 1 "2D" movies only - Sammy for 3D & 16 X 9 TV & Sports) - I'll certainly be going back in this thread and eventually obtaining the calibration tools necessary for my future projector - - which won't have the frequency of firmware updates and changes to the Projector and PQ.

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Pioneer SC65 (Pre-Amp)
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post #12073 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 12:29 PM
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Why do I hate with a vengeance Movie and warm 2? I want to like it, I want to do the right thing, I want to be wowed by what's technically correct, what the calibrators say I should like, I'm just not. My bad biggrin.gif

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post #12074 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 12:38 PM
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LOL.....maybe cuz warm2 turns the world red with a green tint. Historically all my favorite settings have settled in from standard mode. Screw what "they" think it's supposed to be. Its supposed to look great to the eyes of the owner....

Love for all things Hi-def...Losing count; 200 plus bluray, 500 plus dvd, 30 plus HDdvd and a rapidly growing 50 plus in the cloud.

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post #12075 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Browninggold View Post

I better get the 8000 since other owners pair that with the A100 smile.gif I was in the local Best Buy last night and me and the wifey looked at the 55" 8000. Looked nice BTW. Why is it you can get the 55" at local BB but not the larger models? Just curious.

"We can complain because rose bushes have thorns or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses". - Abraham Lincoln
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post #12076 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

LOL.....maybe cuz warm2 turns the world red with a green tint. Historically all my favorite settings have settled in from standard mode. Screw what "they" think it's supposed to be. Its supposed to look great to the eyes of the owner....

Too right, give me the blue push of standard rather than the yellow stain of warm 2 any day

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post #12077 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 12:50 PM
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Arenaman, warm1 and native color in standard mode is slammin....i set color at 49 and enjoy the view.

Love for all things Hi-def...Losing count; 200 plus bluray, 500 plus dvd, 30 plus HDdvd and a rapidly growing 50 plus in the cloud.

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post #12078 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony5362 View Post

Hey man, welcome to this wonderful thread!

I haven't had this issue. Not that I'm aware of anyway. I will try mine and see if it does this though. Did you set your Receiver to use the optical out when you use the Smart hub? What Kind of AVR are you using? I know I had to set my Onkyo to use the Optical output whenever I want audio to go through the AVR from the TVs source.

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Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Months ago we had talked about this here actually and many of us, including myself, confirmed it was an issue. I'm surprised it wasn't fixed by now. At the time, we were just testing Netflix. Whoever was dealing with it had Netflix telling them it was a Samsung issue and Samsung saying it was a Netflix app issue. If I remember correctly, another way around it was to stop and push play again, picking up where you left off. Another way, I think was to momentarily rewind again and it would come back.
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Originally Posted by Anthony5362 View Post

Hey man, welcome to this wonderful thread!

I haven't had this issue. Not that I'm aware of anyway. I will try mine and see if it does this though. Did you set your Receiver to use the optical out when you use the Smart hub? What Kind of AVR are you using? I know I had to set my Onkyo to use the Optical output whenever I want audio to go through the AVR from the TVs source.

Hi Guys, Thanks for your responses.

My HT Receiver is an old Sony HT-RD150 (only has the one Optical input) I have to select my source manually on the remote Anthony5362. Garnoch, I think its pretty crappy that Samsung blames Netflix, and Netflix blames Samsung, However, it doesn't explain why it does it while using Allshare, PLEX and playing from USB. I may have to give Samsung a call about this, and also, I have pretty major light bleed in the bootom corners and a "V" shaped bleed above the Samsung logo at the bottom. Thing is, I've had this set since July last year, does anybody know if Samsung will do anything about it?
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post #12079 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 01:00 PM
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***These are old and not current. Click on the link in my signature if you want to see my current readings and settings.***


Ok. So after many more hours of messing with this meter, I've finally finished the calibration (I think). I was aiming for the highest contrast I could get, so there were some things that suffered slightly because of it, but nothing that should be noticeable.

Here's my grayscale readings. All of excellent except the first one and it's not bad by any means, just not as good as the others. Average gamma is at 2.28 and contrast at 3,244:1, which is the highest I was able to record.




Here's my gamma chart, which is one thing that suffered from the hight contrast. It's not quite as flat as I had it before, but still good.




Here's my luminance chart. It also suffered sightly because of the high contrast, but still good.




Here's my color temperature at 65K.




RGB levels. This is probably the best I've gotten these, so I'm pretty happy with it.




And finally, the CIE chart, which is my enemy!!!




The color space is pretty good, but I wish I could get the blue and red primary colors exactly where they're supposed to be, but simply can't. I've tried everything and spent many hours trying to get those correct, but I just can't figure it out. In fact, the only way I was able to get red even close was by using the color and tint settings to set red. Otherwise, red was way off and inside the triangle. It looks like I simply need to rotate the triangle slightly using green as the anchor, but I can't figure it out. If any of you experienced calibrators know how to do that, please let me know!

Overall, I'm very happy with it. The things that are slightly off are probably not noticeable by eye, so I'm not worried about it. I'm sort of a perfectionist, so it bothers me that I can't get the color space exactly right, but...

I'll post my new settings later.
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post #12080 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

LOL.....maybe cuz warm2 turns the world red with a green tint. Historically all my favorite settings have settled in from standard mode. Screw what "they" think it's supposed to be. Its supposed to look great to the eyes of the owner....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

Arenaman, warm1 and native color in standard mode is slammin....i set color at 49 and enjoy the view.

I have also been wrestling with the Warn 2 idea, However, I've been using the free version of this https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/isf-hdtv-professional-calibrator/id518987879?mt=8 to set my White Balance.

Warm 2 looks nothing like what this App says (I know the App saysit isn't 100% accurate) but I am happy with the end results using the ISF App.
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post #12081 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

Arenaman, warm1 and native color in standard mode is slammin....i set color at 49 and enjoy the view.

Standard and Auto for me also with colour at 49, stunningly good wink.gif

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post #12082 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 01:37 PM
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I quite like Warm1 and agree with many of you that Warm2 is just too red. I don't like the way it takes the purity from the whites. That said, now that my eyes have adjusted to Warm1 there is no way I could drop it to standard or cool, they look way too blue.

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post #12083 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 03:00 PM
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Does anyone have light bleed along the whole top and bottom edge of the panel. its about a quarter inch thick bar and is very noticable on gray and darker colors on my 55 inch
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post #12084 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 03:24 PM
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Does anyone have light bleed along the whole top and bottom edge of the panel. its about a quarter inch thick bar and is very noticable on gray and darker colors on my 55 inch
Yes my 55" has that as well, I'd say its about 1/8th inch rather than 1/4. Unfortunately not much can be done about it as its a product of the edge lit led design.
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post #12085 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 10k View Post

Yes my 55" has that as well, I'd say its about 1/8th inch rather than 1/4. Unfortunately not much can be done about it as its a product of the edge lit led design.
ahh when do u think these oled tvs will be affordable. My cell phone has better picture then my tv
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post #12086 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 04:08 PM
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Rckrz6, that's funny dude. Hey, its easier to control issues on smaller screens. Death, taxes and the fact that issues are always magnified as you move up in screen size may be the three guarantees in life. wink.gif

Listen, run the update to fw 1046.2 per my instructions earlier and you most likely will notice improvement on many items including this.

Love for all things Hi-def...Losing count; 200 plus bluray, 500 plus dvd, 30 plus HDdvd and a rapidly growing 50 plus in the cloud.

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post #12087 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by rckrz6 View Post

ahh when do u think these oled tvs will be affordable. My cell phone has better picture then my tv

Of course it does, it's a tiny screen ... Anything is going to look super sharp on a 4" screen. Heck, 1080p on a 10" retina ipad looks like 4K !!!

1000
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post #12088 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 05:32 PM
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I will always love a large screen even with their inherent flaws. Like my old 60" Toshiba cinema series rptv...dim by today's standards and never could get all four corners converged perfectly...but it was big and badass...oh it had halo's galore on bright objects with dark backgrounds. The 8000 is perfect even on its slight imperfections. Like my house that is an 80 yr old Dutch colonial....not perfect, but amazingly restored and renovated with character you can't build today.

Saturday night...time for some face melting tv watching!!!!

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post #12089 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 1000 View Post

Of course it does, it's a tiny screen ... Anything is going to look super sharp on a 4" screen. Heck, 1080p on a 10" retina ipad looks like 4K !!!

1000
oled pq in general destroys lcd. Im not sure if I will tell the difference in a 4k screen sitting at a reasonable distance. Ill trying doing a factory reset as u posted
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post #12090 of 16274 Old 02-09-2013, 06:54 PM
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Does anyone have light bleed along the whole top and bottom edge of the panel. its about a quarter inch thick bar and is very noticable on gray and darker colors on my 55 inch

My 55" did not exhibit this.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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