Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 55 - AVS Forum
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post #1621 of 16205 Old 07-15-2012, 02:13 PM
 
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It also seems that Samsung has decided to move away from its "price fixing" policy of one price for all dealers or even for the season. An article in HD Guru lists the ES800 as a *HoT* buy as of June.

http://hdguru.com/the-hottest-hdtv-deals-for-dads-and-grads-updated/8116/

Don;t wait for prices to go much lower come August though, traditionally the closer you get to September and the football season the more prices flatten or even rise.
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post #1622 of 16205 Old 07-15-2012, 03:02 PM
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who here uses cnet's picture settings? or is everyone still using nitra's? (i prefer nitra's still)
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post #1623 of 16205 Old 07-15-2012, 03:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prme19 View Post

who here uses cnet's picture settings? or is everyone still using nitra's? (i prefer nitra's still)

I switched over to cnet settimgs and i like those better. They are a bit more vibrant to me. I also set my eco to bottom out at 9 since the cnet guy ssid he was using a dim room and at night i can see more detail.

Try them out, then you can decide which ones. I think the cnet settings make the color pop a bit more and do not look as washed out. Thats just on my set though. It may be different from set to set. They both looked really close up until i did the 10p white adjustments, then i noticed the colors started to get richer and more vibrant.
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post #1624 of 16205 Old 07-15-2012, 03:23 PM
 
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It's always tempting to try settings found at web sites like CNET or even other owners settings and then possibly tweak for your lighting conditions and/or preferences. However, no two TVs are the same even in the same screen size and brand/model number. So it's best to find out what settings in a menu to use. . and also which to turn off as some actually may introduce picture artifacts or actually counteract some of the other settings.

A good way to do this is with the *FREE* AVS HD709 Calibration Disc available here on AVS:

There are several files there in different formats, But if you have a Blu-ray player you can download the AVCHD(.exe) and burn it on a REGULAR DVD +or- R and play it in HD on Blu-ray. It is an ISO file and can be burned using IMGBurn or Nero or some other ISO file burning software. I found it VERY useful for all my TVs.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration


Besides the various test screens that help you set Brightness, Contrast, Color, Tint, etc. . . there is a video tutorial that gives detailed information on how and why to make the proper TV settings. Once the settings are made using this disc, you can then follow it up with a good personal reference movie to check your settings and possibly make minor adjustments for your conditions. Many owner find that Sea Biscuit, Casino Royale, The Fall and a few others on Blu-ray make excellent "reference movies. It is important NOT to use movies heavy in CGI like Avatar or Transformers to mention a couple, because these movies generally have over saturated colors and higher than normal contrast or peak white level. If you make adjustments using "tamer" movies, the Picture Quality will look best on all movie types.
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post #1625 of 16205 Old 07-15-2012, 03:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Gas0linE View Post

.
Try them out, then you can decide which ones. I think the cnet settings make the color pop a bit more and do not look as washed out. Thats just on my set though. It may be different from set to set. They both looked really close up until i did the 10p white adjustments, then i noticed the colors started to get richer and more vibrant.

Just curious. . how did you make the 10 point white balance settings? Were they copied or your own derived from test patterns?
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post #1626 of 16205 Old 07-15-2012, 03:47 PM
 
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Just curious. . how did you make the 10 point white balance settings? Were they copied or your own derived from test patterns?

I copied the ones from cnet.
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post #1627 of 16205 Old 07-15-2012, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Gas0linE View Post

I switched over to cnet settimgs and i like those better. They are a bit more vibrant to me. I also set my eco to bottom out at 9 since the cnet guy ssid he was using a dim room and at night i can see more detail.
Try them out, then you can decide which ones. I think the cnet settings make the color pop a bit more and do not look as washed out. Thats just on my set though. It may be different from set to set. They both looked really close up until i did the 10p white adjustments, then i noticed the colors started to get richer and more vibrant.

thanks. you're right.. it was a little dim for my taste.. will adjust my eco
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post #1628 of 16205 Old 07-15-2012, 04:33 PM
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will try cnet's settings for a few weeks.. i liked nitra's before, we'll see

gasoline,

i'm new to this, but what's the difference with using the 10p white balance compared to having it turned off.. because i couldn't tell when i made the adjustments
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post #1629 of 16205 Old 07-15-2012, 04:43 PM
 
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You would only likely notice a difference with 10 point white balance when viewing B&W movies or TV programs. . . unless the white balance is quite a bit off.

If you want to check how good the 10 point white balance settings are. .. you can use a Calibration Test disc and look at what is called stepped gray scale or some other similar pattern. If you have no such test disc. . . try a B&W movie. . or temporarily turn Color ALL the way down. Then compare it with 10 point On and Off to see it there is any difference. There should be little or NO color (pink, blue, green) tint to B&W pictures on the screen. This isn't as easy as it sounds and there are ways to do this and get gray scale closer.

In short, using 10 point allows you to make a more refined setting to all the different levels of light output that the TV is capable of and maintain color purity at each level. . . ie, no added color to any level of the 10 points of what is called gray scale. Gray scale is very important, because a TV picture actually takes a B&W image (luminance) and the ADDS the color signal (chroma) on top of it to produce the picture. So you can see, if the 10 point steps have some color tint to them, then any actual color added to that will produce an inaccurate or tinted color other than what was intended.

So when you have a B&W image on the TV screen it should not have any colored "cast" to any of the shades of gray. Usually, TVs today run on the "cool" side and look too blue when displaying B&W. Probably by design because our eyes are less sensitive to blue and we tent not to notice a blue tint to a B&W image.

Well, hope this helped and wasn't "too much information". smile.gif There is actually much more technical jargon and information regarding the issue of gray scale and 10 point or even 20 point that some TVs have.
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post #1630 of 16205 Old 07-15-2012, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Guys I finally got around to playing with the 3D mode today on my ES7500 and I noticed something weird happening with the auto-detection. When I select the 3D sports channel on my FiOS box, the tv automatically detects the signal, but here's the issue: it pops up a warning box that it is about to go into 3D mode, then it gives a 3D caution notice, then at the bottom of the box it gives me 2 options - "ok" and "never show this message again". But the entire time the message seems frozen - I cannot select either box, so I have to just wait like 30 seconds for the tv to switch to 3D mode. Then, next time I go to the channel again, the same thing happens every time - the warning box pops up but I can't select either ok or never show again, so I have to wait again until it goes away.
I also tried turning auto-detection off under 3D settings, and the same thing happens anyways - I go to the 3D channel, and the box comes up anyways, saying it's about to go into 3D mode, again not letting me select either option. The only difference is when auto-detection is off, the tv stays in 2D mode after the box disappears. When auto-detection is turned on, it switches to 3D after the box disappears. When it's turned off, it remains in 2D mode after the box disappears.
Has this happened to anybody else? I already called Samsung about this earlier today and they have not heard of this before, and said that isn't how it should be acting. I should be able to select the option never show message again, and from then on it should automatically go straight to 3D mode without the message box appearing. But I can't select that option. And the rep said that if I turn off auto-detection it shouldn't do anything when I go to a 3D channel, but it does. I'd like to know if others have this issue.
I also tried some 3D blu-ray discs, and that does not happen with blu-ray discs - I put in Hugo, and it started playing in 3D and the tv automatically switched to 3D mode without the annoying pop-up box in the center of the screen - just a little notice in the bottom-left corner saying I'm viewing in 3D mode. So whatever is going on with that message it seems to only pop up when I'm watching 3D broadcasts.

Guys I'm quoting myself again here because I figured this would give you all a good laugh, it did for me. It just hit me 5 minutes ago while doing dishes - that menu box that keeps appearing when viewing FiOS 3D tv but not on blu-ray or 3D files - that menu is not from the Samsung tv - it's from the FiOS DVR! Hilarious! It's the FiOS box that keeps popping up the "you're about to watch 3D content...blah blah blah" - I used the FiOS remote and selected "never show again" and now that message is gone for good. I can't believe that didn't occur earlier to me that maybe I was seeing a FiOS menu not a tv menu.

The most hilarious part though is when I called Samsung about it, they didn't say anything like "hmm, that doesn't sound like any of our menus" - they just said I should be able to select "never show again", and they didn't know why I couldn't! They didn't even know it wasn't even their menu.

Oh, well. At least I figured it out.

I read the CNET review and I think they're nuts. They were very unfairly harsh on this set. The AVforums review is much closer to what I expected to hear from CNET. This is an excellent set and I'm so glad I broke away from plasma and ended up with my ES7500. It's an amazing set overall.
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post #1631 of 16205 Old 07-15-2012, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Having read both reviews, the reported black level is actually lower in the CNET review (0.0108 fL vs. 0.0146 fL). However, CNET seems to have stricter tolerances for black levels since they consider this level of performance only average while AVF considers it good.
Having said that, the bad part of AVF's review was the viewing angles:
"Unfortunately, whilst the 55ES8000 can deliver some impressive blacks, where the use of Samsung’s SPVA panel has its downside is in terms of viewing angles. Sadly these were very limited and if you were sat anywhere but dead-centre to the 55ES8000 the colours and blacks would immediately begin to wash out. The same was true if you stood up and looked down at the 55ES8000, so you will need to be very careful when positioning the display, especially somewhere high such as above a fireplace."
This is clearly bad news for anyone viewing the TV evenly slightly off-axis and likely means if a group of people are watching the TV together, only one seat on the same couch will have optimum PQ. That is kind of disappointing for a top-of-the-line TV. This is obviously an area where Plasmas and IPS panel LCDs will easily outperform the UNxxES8000, though the IPS panel LCDs will have much worse black levels and still washout on the vertical axis.
David Katzmaier probably is biased towards Plasma since his top 5 TVs for PQ only include 4 Plasmas (http://reviews.cnet.com/best-hdtvs/?tag=leftnav). However, interestingly enough even the CCFL-LCD models from 2011 by Samsung have better blacks (about half as bright): the LNxxD550 and LNxxD630. That's 0.0052 fL for the D630 and 0.0044 fL for the cheaper D550. Those value-priced models also come with S-PVA LCD panels (or in some cases A-MVA or S-MVA), yet somehow manage to get better blacks without anything remotely close to local dimming. So, as someone who is a fan of Samsung TVs, which LED-LCD from their lineup this year offers the best overall PQ? Is it the ES8000 or is it a cheaper ES series model like the ES6xx0 or ES7xx0 models? Which has the most PQ bang for the buck?

I agree I was initially disappointed by the viewing angles, and I'm still not thrilled. But the set looks so damn good I've learned very quickly to not let it bother me, and the swivel stand on my set helps a ton.

I'm using CNET's ES8000 settings now but just tweaked slightly using my AVS disc and I'm using warm1 as my personal preference is slightly less warm. Overall I think I like CNET's settings a lot. Very good color.
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post #1632 of 16205 Old 07-15-2012, 05:39 PM
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The ES800 is about the best buy currently in larger LED/LCD panel TVs. There are also some other contenders out there that rival plasma TV such as these form Panasonic:
http://hdguru.com/ces-2012-post-show-report-part-four-panasonics-hdtv-ledlcd-line/7243/
In that article is states:
"Panasonic also significantly raised the performance bar with its 2012 WT series. During the CES demo the new WT models outperformed every other LED LCD we saw at CES in viewing angle, maintaining color saturation and contrast from even extreme viewing positions (see photo below). This is the first time we have witnessed off-axis LED LCD viewing that rivals plasma performance. "
So, a lot of progress this year on the LED/LCD front from both Samsung and some others.

I am surprised you are quoting a "preview" of the Panasonic from 2012. Clearly, the Panasonic would be displayed to its advantage at CES. However, I thought it was relatively common knowledge that IPS panels have very good off-axis viewing and also do well on uniformity. That being said, I thought it was also common knowledge that they do poorly on black levels, having a relatively high mll. I have failed to find a "good" review on the Panasonic. Have a look here:

http://www.tweaktv.com/the-kevin-miller-channel/value-electronics-annual-flat-panel-shootout-2012.html

and here:

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Panasonic-WT50-TX-L42WT50B-47WT50B-55WT50B-Flagship-3D-LED-LCD-TV-Review_293/Review.html
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post #1633 of 16205 Old 07-15-2012, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

You would only likely notice a difference with 10 point white balance when viewing B&W movies or TV programs. . . unless the white balance is quite a bit off.
If you want to check how good the 10 point white balance settings are. .. you can use a Calibration Test disc and look at what is called stepped gray scale or some other similar pattern. If you have no such test disc. . . try a B&W movie. . or temporarily turn Color ALL the way down. Then compare it with 10 point On and Off to see it there is any difference. There should be little or NO color (pink, blue, green) tint to B&W pictures on the screen. This isn't as easy as it sounds and there are ways to do this and get gray scale closer.
In short, using 10 point allows you to make a more refined setting to all the different levels of light output that the TV is capable of and maintain color purity at each level. . . ie, no added color to any level of the 10 points of what is called gray scale. Gray scale is very important, because a TV picture actually takes a B&W image (luminance) and the ADDS the color signal (chroma) on top of it to produce the picture. So you can see, if the 10 point steps have some color tint to them, then any actual color added to that will produce an inaccurate or tinted color other than what was intended.
So when you have a B&W image on the TV screen it should not have any colored "cast" to any of the shades of gray. Usually, TVs today run on the "cool" side and look too blue when displaying B&W. Probably by design because our eyes are less sensitive to blue and we tent not to notice a blue tint to a B&W image.
Well, hope this helped and wasn't "too much information". smile.gif There is actually much more technical jargon and information regarding the issue of gray scale and 10 point or even 20 point that some TVs have.

thanks
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post #1634 of 16205 Old 07-15-2012, 06:48 PM
 
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I am surprised you are quoting a "preview" of the Panasonic from 2012. Clearly, the Panasonic would be displayed to its advantage at CES. However, I thought it was relatively common knowledge that IPS panels have very good off-axis viewing and also do well on uniformity. That being said, I thought it was also common knowledge that they do poorly on black levels, having a relatively high mll. I have failed to find a "good" review on the Panasonic. Have a look here:
http://www.tweaktv.com/the-kevin-miller-channel/value-electronics-annual-flat-panel-shootout-2012.html
and here:
http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Panasonic-WT50-TX-L42WT50B-47WT50B-55WT50B-Flagship-3D-LED-LCD-TV-Review_293/Review.html

Yes, I've read those reviews and comments too. And IPS generally do not always have the best black levels. I think it depends on what reviews a person wants to believe. For instance, the ES8000 has been stated to have it's faults by CNET in viewing angle but many owners do not think it is that bad. It also comes down to what aspects of picture quality a person is most sensitive to possibly. With reviews, who knows what recent TVs the reviewer has just looked at and the conditions.

One interesting example of what the reviewers and "experts" say is my 2007 Mitsubishi LT-46231 LCD with S-PVA LCD panel. It is supposed to exhibit poor off axis viewing but the picture quality is actually better off axis than a 2010 LG 42LD550 I also have that has an S-IPS panel. Black levels are a bit better on the S-PVA also.

Bottom line. . . a potential TV buyer should probably look and try out several TVs in a particular class in the particular year to see for themselves what looks best. smile.gif
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post #1635 of 16205 Old 07-15-2012, 07:36 PM
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So I have a traditional L shaped section sofa in my living room, I'm thinking about the 65ES8000 which would be 10 ft from the center. Would the folks sitting off center (but closest to the set), see washed-out images?
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post #1636 of 16205 Old 07-15-2012, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jav1 View Post

So I have a traditional L shaped section sofa in my living room, I'm thinking about the 65ES8000 which would be 10 ft from the center. Would the folks sitting off center (but closest to the set), see washed-out images?

No.
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post #1637 of 16205 Old 07-16-2012, 05:22 AM
 
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Here is an interesting post I recently found regarding a TV owner's experience with a VT50 and an EH8000.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1420428/samsung60es8000#post_22222244

Just a sample:

"*I had Samsung 60es8000 for a month and fell in love with it. It gets better with time. Then came the cnet reviews and the VT50 was rated very high. I exchanged the es8000 for vt50 ( I don't know why). I should NEVER have done that. One of the worst decisions. I am exchanging it again for my 60 inch es8000. What an amazing tv the es8000 series is!"*
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post #1638 of 16205 Old 07-16-2012, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Here is an interesting post I recently found regarding a TV owner's experience with a VT50 and an EH8000.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1420428/samsung60es8000#post_22222244
Just a sample:
"*I had Samsung 60es8000 for a month and fell in love with it. It gets better with time. Then came the cnet reviews and the VT50 was rated very high. I exchanged the es8000 for vt50 ( I don't know why). I should NEVER have done that. One of the worst decisions. I am exchanging it again for my 60 inch es8000. What an amazing tv the es8000 series is!"*

I don't find that post particularly interesting as on a very regular basis there will be a plethora of posts by individuals advising they returned an LCD for a plasma or vice-versa. One would hope that this thread would be about discussing the benefits and demerits of this TV as compared to other LCDs (and plasmas) in a reasonably objective manner. It seems, however, that it has degenerated into an advocacy forum.
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post #1639 of 16205 Old 07-16-2012, 05:59 AM
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Where can these Cnet picture settings be found in the review? Or do you need to know how to read all those charts and bar graphs?
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post #1640 of 16205 Old 07-16-2012, 06:01 AM
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"Panasonic also significantly raised the performance bar with its 2012 WT series. During the CES demo the new WT models outperformed every other LED LCD we saw at CES in viewing angle, maintaining color saturation and contrast from even extreme viewing positions (see photo below). This is the first time we have witnessed off-axis LED LCD viewing that rivals plasma performance. "

So, a lot of progress this year on the LED/LCD front from both Samsung and some others."

Exactly; I was actually 95% set on going plasma when my shopping process started...and the rest unfolded.... The only "negative" at all, and wasnt really too bad... smile.gif was that my budget got bumped by 30% or so.

Love for all things Hi-def...Losing count; 200 plus bluray, 500 plus dvd, 30 plus HDdvd and a rapidly growing 50 plus in the cloud.

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post #1641 of 16205 Old 07-16-2012, 06:11 AM
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"Guys I'm quoting myself again here because I figured this would give you all a good laugh, it did for me. It just hit me 5 minutes ago while doing dishes - that menu box that keeps appearing when viewing FiOS 3D tv but not on blu-ray or 3D files - that menu is not from the Samsung tv - it's from the FiOS DVR! Hilarious! It's the FiOS box that keeps popping up the "you're about to watch 3D content...blah blah blah" - I used the FiOS remote and selected "never show again" and now that message is gone for good. I can't believe that didn't occur earlier to me that maybe I was seeing a FiOS menu not a tv menu.
"

That IS hilarious!!! It fooled me as well the first time we viewed Ondemand HD content...but briefly.... Too funny Eagle...


By the way; thanks again to everybody for the valuable input on tweaks and tech behaviour. I am casually exploring the calibration aspect as I break this tv into my domain. It will be quite a while till I even tap into the "smart" aspect...but someday as I's like to skype my overseas peeps on this eventually.

Plasma guys, I do appreciate your input as well.

Love for all things Hi-def...Losing count; 200 plus bluray, 500 plus dvd, 30 plus HDdvd and a rapidly growing 50 plus in the cloud.

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post #1642 of 16205 Old 07-16-2012, 09:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Op's Guy View Post

Where can these Cnet picture settings be found in the review? Or do you need to know how to read all those charts and bar graphs?

CNET Picture settings:

http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_102-567650/samsung-un55es8000-picture-settings/?tag=StickyWin_1341934846802;createThreadPopup
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post #1643 of 16205 Old 07-16-2012, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Op's Guy View Post

Where can these Cnet picture settings be found in the review? Or do you need to know how to read all those charts and bar graphs?

http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_102-567650/samsung-un55es8000-picture-settings/?tag=contentBody;threadListing

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NEED HELP WITH TV MOUNTING HEIGHT

I ordered my 65" ES8000 on Friday.I want it to look like a picture frame. I bought the super slim LL11-B1 Sanus Mount.The TV will be delivered tomorrow. I'd like help on the height for the TV.
Using the Sanus Height finder tool on their web site, I currently have it plotted out to have the
Tv center at 59 1/4,Tv Bottom at 42',TV Top at 761/2',
(I wanted to mount it higher than normal,since the tv size is large and my ceiling height is taller than the usual 8 feet for an apt).I used frog tape to map it onto my wall and even made a carboard repica of my screen size. I was pretty happy with the proposed tv height...

But then I forgot to factor in the Camera/Gesture interaction feature.A solution would be to stand up if I want to really use it, I guess.What would be the best Mounting height/Center for the tv?Are my current measurements too high? Will neck strain be a long-term issue at this height?

My viewing distance between the wall and sitting position is 148in(12t 4").
The height of Eyes/ears from the floor while seated is 42 inches.
My living room is 12ft 10 inches(154") by 14ft 5 inches(173"), which is the wall I'm facing.
Height of ceiling is a little over 9ft.


Thank you in advance for your advice
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post #1645 of 16205 Old 07-16-2012, 09:45 AM
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Where can these Cnet picture settings be found in the review? Or do you need to know how to read all those charts and bar graphs?

i missed i too the first time i read the cnet review. it's on the second page just before you reach the calibrations part, there's a image box with "picture settings" in it (not really sure), click it and it will take you to another page with all the settings
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post #1646 of 16205 Old 07-16-2012, 11:03 AM
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But then I forgot to factor in the Camera/Gesture interaction feature.

You can swivel/angle the camera down very easily.
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post #1647 of 16205 Old 07-16-2012, 11:35 AM
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I got a mount(Sanus LL11-B1) which has no tilt since I want the tv to be as flush onto the wall as possible
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post #1648 of 16205 Old 07-16-2012, 11:39 AM
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I got a mount(Sanus LL11-B1) which has no tilt since I want the tv to be as flush onto the wall as possible


The camera itself can swivel down.
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post #1649 of 16205 Old 07-16-2012, 12:05 PM
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post #1650 of 16205 Old 07-16-2012, 12:06 PM
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The camera itself can swivel down.

Ohhhh, thats great.Thanks so much!
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