Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 88 - AVS Forum
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LCD Flat Panel Displays > Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread
nitra's Avatar nitra 02:20 PM 08-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Gosselin View Post

seems the panel screws are to tight causing the clouding and leakage, i wouldnt recommend trying this but well worth the read http://translate.google.it/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=it&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forodvd.com%2Ftema%2F108005-tutorial-eliminar-clouding-la-serie-es8000-de-samsung%2F&act=url

I was going to link that, seems that's why the V is showing.

aaronwalker1974's Avatar aaronwalker1974 02:41 PM 08-09-2012
I attempted this fix. It removed almost all of the clouding in that lower section. It is not completely gone, but greatly diminished.
eagle_2's Avatar eagle_2 02:48 PM 08-09-2012
I just got off the phone with Samsung, because I wanted to hear for myself what they have to say about micro-dimming.

First she tried to tell me about eco settings, then about how each mode has its own settings. I then told her she's avoiding the question I'm asking - is micro-dimming enabled in movie mode, and is it intended to be?

After several minutes on hold, she came back and said the specs of this tv confirm that micro-dimming is functional in movie mode, and if it wasn't the image would look washed out. I told her that that's exactly the problem - movie mode does look washed out. I then read her the email Nitra posted stating that micro-dimming is intentionally disabled in movie mode. She put me back on hold and then said she would transfer me to the executive department for further help.

I explained everything to him, and he admitted he was not technical savvy, and would transfer me to their second-level technical department to sort this out.

I then spoke to their tier-2 support, and went over everything again. I also brought up ce-dimming saying that I don't like the other modes because ce-dimming is forced on in all other modes. Everybody at Samsung seems to confuse the eco settings with ce-dimming. I went into ce-dimming with tier-2 tech at length, and she told me I could disable it. I then said no I can't, it used to be in the service menu only, now that's greyout out also, so it's not an option for us to disable it and Samsung seems to not want us to have control over that for some reason. She said it's called eco solution and it's in the menu. I then told her no it's entirely different from eco solution, and even with all eco settings off I could see the effects of the ce dimming. She then transferred me to another tech.


So now I'm on with the 4th person! This is just past the 1-hour mark now.

The 4th person confirmed that micro-dimming is disabled in movie mode. As far as ce-dimming, she basically said "oh well, use movie mode then". After I told her that was no way for a company to treat their customers, she put me on hold and then came back and said they have all my information and thanks for calling Samsung.

This is the customer service you get from Samsung.
dad0118's Avatar dad0118 03:04 PM 08-09-2012
So what looks worse... Movie Mode w/ Micro Dimming or Standard mode with CE Dimming?

It seems like it's not worth the upgrade from ES7500 to ES8000 if the only difference is the Micro Dimming Ultimate vs. Pro if that feature does not even work well...
eagle_2's Avatar eagle_2 03:34 PM 08-09-2012
Definitely not worth the upgrade imo, since the feature you're paying extra for isn't even enabled.
isupes's Avatar isupes 04:25 PM 08-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I just got off the phone with Samsung, because I wanted to hear for myself what they have to say about micro-dimming.
First she tried to tell me about eco settings, then about how each mode has its own settings. I then told her she's avoiding the question I'm asking - is micro-dimming enabled in movie mode, and is it intended to be?
After several minutes on hold, she came back and said the specs of this tv confirm that micro-dimming is functional in movie mode, and if it wasn't the image would look washed out. I told her that that's exactly the problem - movie mode does look washed out. I then read her the email Nitra posted stating that micro-dimming is intentionally disabled in movie mode. She put me back on hold and then said she would transfer me to the executive department for further help.
I explained everything to him, and he admitted he was not technical savvy, and would transfer me to their second-level technical department to sort this out.
I then spoke to their tier-2 support, and went over everything again. I also brought up ce-dimming saying that I don't like the other modes because ce-dimming is forced on in all other modes. Everybody at Samsung seems to confuse the eco settings with ce-dimming. I went into ce-dimming with tier-2 tech at length, and she told me I could disable it. I then said no I can't, it used to be in the service menu only, now that's greyout out also, so it's not an option for us to disable it and Samsung seems to not want us to have control over that for some reason. She said it's called eco solution and it's in the menu. I then told her no it's entirely different from eco solution, and even with all eco settings off I could see the effects of the ce dimming. She then transferred me to another tech.
So now I'm on with the 4th person! This is just past the 1-hour mark now.
The 4th person confirmed that micro-dimming is disabled in movie mode. As far as ce-dimming, she basically said "oh well, use movie mode then". After I told her that was no way for a company to treat their customers, she put me on hold and then came back and said they have all my information and thanks for calling Samsung.
This is the customer service you get from Samsung.

So...pretty much if you don't like CE dimming use movie mode that lacks THE MAIN SELLING FEATURE of the picture for this tv... Or use standard mode, STFU, and deal with the dimming... Great stuff Samsung... It's stuff like that that make me want to return the damn thing on principle
isupes's Avatar isupes 04:29 PM 08-09-2012
If MDU was intentionally left out of movie mode, they should have at least implemented some type of edge lit local dimming for movie mode that we could turn on in the menu... But then how would they sell their ES9000 which I'm sure will probably have a feature like this.
HenDokuYaku's Avatar HenDokuYaku 04:41 PM 08-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by isupes View Post

If MDU was intentionally left out of movie mode, they should have at least implemented some type of edge lit local dimming for movie mode that we could turn on in the menu... But then how would they sell their ES9000 which I'm sure will probably have a feature like this.

I have a terrible feeling that this issue is more at play than we think. They have to differentiate a 9k tv. I so hope I'm wrong. All of this runaround seems to indicate that there may be truth to this.
eagle_2's Avatar eagle_2 04:51 PM 08-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by isupes View Post

So...pretty much if you don't like CE dimming use movie mode that lacks THE MAIN SELLING FEATURE of the picture for this tv... Or use standard mode, STFU, and deal with the dimming... Great stuff Samsung... It's stuff like that that make me want to return the damn thing on principle

That's about it. I'm actually furious right now that I spent extra money on the 7500 vs the 7100 for the micro-dimming pro just to find out it's disabled. I'm not happy. Out of principle I would return it but Best Buy banned my girlfriend from returning the set even though she should have 60 days as a silver member - they said the ban trumps the silver member benefits. What the hell is wrong with these companies?

If I had read all of this 6 weeks ago before we bought the set, I would never have bought it or any other Samsung.
isupes's Avatar isupes 04:53 PM 08-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenDokuYaku View Post

I have a terrible feeling that this issue is more at play than we think. They have to differentiate a 9k tv. I so hope I'm wrong. All of this runaround seems to indicate that there may be truth to this.

I'm willing to bet. They can't say the size is the reason for price. Sharp is crappin out 80 full arrays for almost half the price. So what can they do to differentiate it from the ES8000? Oh..I know...let's add local dimming and have everybody believe they will miraculously work together in movie mode...and every other mode for that matter... Then jack price up... Most people are too dumb to realize that it's not all working as advertised.. And if there are few that realize it..screw it.. For every one person who realizes it 5 more are completely oblivious..
isupes's Avatar isupes 04:59 PM 08-09-2012
I've said before that I love the tv, the pic is good, uniformity not so great but decent, but I couldn't shake the feeling that I made a mistake in buying this particular tv. The more light that is shed on this whole matter the more my feeling is affirmed. I'm just tired of doing the tv shuffle, and there is really not very much choice when ur looking for a 65 inch at a reasonable price.
Ticmxman's Avatar Ticmxman 05:25 PM 08-09-2012
Is the ES7100 free of this problem?
nitra's Avatar nitra 06:20 PM 08-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

That's about it. I'm actually furious right now that I spent extra money on the 7500 vs the 7100 for the micro-dimming pro just to find out it's disabled. I'm not happy. Out of principle I would return it but Best Buy banned my girlfriend from returning the set even though she should have 60 days as a silver member - they said the ban trumps the silver member benefits. What the hell is wrong with these companies?
If I had read all of this 6 weeks ago before we bought the set, I would never have bought it or any other Samsung.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isupes View Post

I'm willing to bet. They can't say the size is the reason for price. Sharp is crappin out 80 full arrays for almost half the price. So what can they do to differentiate it from the ES8000? Oh..I know...let's add local dimming and have everybody believe they will miraculously work together in movie mode...and every other mode for that matter... Then jack price up... Most people are too dumb to realize that it's not all working as advertised.. And if there are few that realize it..screw it.. For every one person who realizes it 5 more are completely oblivious..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ticmxman View Post

Is the ES7100 free of this problem?

We all need to take a step back, odds are it was always like this, I tested MD on my D7000, it's not active in movie either.

Blacks are better with MDU active, but before this was noticed, there were not many complaints about it.
Take a step back from this, I fully reset my set again tonight and looked at movie mode, there wasn't much difference.
From my PS3, there was very very little difference in black levels, from my cable box, there was.
I need to dig more into it.

I won't have a ton of time until next week to dig into different sources, but we may as a whole be reading too much into this.
Give me a bit of time, I'll dig more.
mx6bfast's Avatar mx6bfast 06:21 PM 08-09-2012
I bet it was removed during the same update which blew everyone's settings away.
isupes's Avatar isupes 06:38 PM 08-09-2012
I'm sorry..but it's bullsh!t. I bought the tv under the impression that MDU was a mainstay on all modes. They advertise it that way. Then you get the tv, and it's not enabled on movie mode. Well guess what, movie is the mode that most people are gonna use because of all the open options to calibrate. They do or say nothing to specify that it's not enabled. So, here comes Jo Shmo, he buys an es8000. He puts it on movie mode and is mostly satisfied, but it looks off, but what does he know, maybe this is how the tv is supposed to look, he's thinking. But what he doesn't know is that he got screwed, cuz the feature he payed all that money for, the feature that he THINKS is on right now, isn't. He's oblivious, just like Samsung wants us all to be while they rake in the profits.. I'm feeling like mr. Jo Shmo right now, only im not oblivious.
gamermwm's Avatar gamermwm 06:51 PM 08-09-2012
I've never seen MDUltimate at work more than I have tonight while watching NFL preseason games on NFL Network. You can really see where it boosts all the individual colors of the uniforms, especially when they show a shot of all the players from above. And the green grass as well. It never looked this "enhanced" in movie mode. I don't dislike it really, it's just different than what I'm used to seeing

Standard mode might work for me after all. But what did David from CNET say about his post calibration results for Standard mode...something about calibration results/colors etc. not being as good/accurate as Movie Mode? Maybe this was because of enhancement via micro dimming?

So if things are slightly off in Standard and it's only because of Micro Dimming I can live with that. It's supposed to alter the picture (in a good way). The only other thing I'm really missing from Movie Mode is 10p White Balance right? I wasn't even using that in movie mode anyway
isupes's Avatar isupes 06:55 PM 08-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamermwm View Post

I've never seen MDUltimate at work more than I have tonight while watching NFL preseason games on NFL Network. You can really see where it boosts all the individual colors of the uniforms, especially when they show a shot of all the players from above. And the green grass as well. It never looked this "enhanced" in movie mode. I don't dislike it really, it's just different than what I'm used to seeing
Standard mode might work for me after all. But what did David from CNET say about his post calibration results for Standard mode...something about calibration results/colors etc. not being as good/accurate as Movie Mode? Maybe this was because of enhancement via micro dimming?
So if things are slightly off in Standard and it's only because of Micro Dimming I can live with that. It's supposed to alter the picture (in a good way). The only other thing I'm really missing from Movie Mode is 10p White Balance right? I wasn't even using that in movie mode anyway

But then in standard the CE Dimming is forced on us which is the real issue. No choice for the consumer. We are just forced to deal after we buy a tv under false advertisement.
isupes's Avatar isupes 07:00 PM 08-09-2012
A simple fix would be the option to turn on MDU in movie mode OR the option to turn off CE Dimming in standard. That simple, but we'll probably never get either of those 2 options.
nitra's Avatar nitra 07:03 PM 08-09-2012
By definition movie mode shouldn't be modified, unless we specifically enable the feature.
The problem is, we can't enable or disable MDU, by design.
eagle_2's Avatar eagle_2 07:19 PM 08-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Gosselin View Post

seems the panel screws are to tight causing the clouding and leakage, i wouldnt recommend trying this but well worth the read http://translate.google.it/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=it&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forodvd.com%2Ftema%2F108005-tutorial-eliminar-clouding-la-serie-es8000-de-samsung%2F&act=url

The fact that this is fixable by dis-assembling the panel and just tightening or loosening some screws is even more an insult to all who purchase these sets - this clouding can be avoided simply by Samsung properly adjusting the tightness of these screws. But because they don't give a crap, and have no quality control, they ship out every tv with the screws not properly adjusted.
eagle_2's Avatar eagle_2 07:22 PM 08-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitra View Post

We all need to take a step back, odds are it was always like this, I tested MD on my D7000, it's not active in movie either.
Blacks are better with MDU active, but before this was noticed, there were not many complaints about it.
Take a step back from this, I fully reset my set again tonight and looked at movie mode, there wasn't much difference.
From my PS3, there was very very little difference in black levels, from my cable box, there was.
I need to dig more into it.
I won't have a ton of time until next week to dig into different sources, but we may as a whole be reading too much into this.
Give me a bit of time, I'll dig more.

It doesn't matter to me if it was always like this or if they disabled it at some point. Bottom line is I paid for micro-dimming plus and the mode I want to use doesn't have it.
eagle_2's Avatar eagle_2 07:24 PM 08-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by isupes View Post

A simple fix would be the option to turn on MDU in movie mode OR the option to turn off CE Dimming in standard. That simple, but we'll probably never get either of those 2 options.

Exactly. I'll take either option, but they won't give us either one. We should have both options.
eagle_2's Avatar eagle_2 07:27 PM 08-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by isupes View Post

I'm sorry..but it's bullsh!t. I bought the tv under the impression that MDU was a mainstay on all modes. They advertise it that way. Then you get the tv, and it's not enabled on movie mode. Well guess what, movie is the mode that most people are gonna use because of all the open options to calibrate. They do or say nothing to specify that it's not enabled. So, here comes Jo Shmo, he buys an es8000. He puts it on movie mode and is mostly satisfied, but it looks off, but what does he know, maybe this is how the tv is supposed to look, he's thinking. But what he doesn't know is that he got screwed, cuz the feature he payed all that money for, the feature that he THINKS is on right now, isn't. He's oblivious, just like Samsung wants us all to be while they rake in the profits.. I'm feeling like mr. Jo Shmo right now, only im not oblivious.

Perfectly stated. I feel like Samsung totally pulled a fast one on me. I read for weeks about how great micro-dimming plus and ultimate are. At first I wanted the 7100 but convinced my girlfriend we would get the benefit from the 7500 with the plus. I saw a training video on youtube about how great micro-dimming is. Then we buy the set and discover weeks later I'm not even getting the benefit of what we paid for in movie mode. Then as an extra kick in the head, I learn any mode that does have it will auto-dim during the darkest scenes, as if that's somehow a good thing.
isupes's Avatar isupes 07:27 PM 08-09-2012
And by human nature, it will be modified. Why give so many more options in movie mode if it's meant not to be modified. And as far as MDU not working in that mode by design, that is my whole point, they don't tell us it doesn't work in all modes because they want you to believe it does. They want us to fall for their marketing crap and we do. They don't care that a small percentage of us have figured out their marketing ploy with MDU. They still have a crap ton of people sitting on their couches eating Cheetos and completely blind to the fact that the main feature if the tv they bought isn't even on. As the saying says, "ignorance is bliss."
nitra's Avatar nitra 07:36 PM 08-09-2012
Samsung isn't alone in disabling everything in movie mode, it's universal across all vendors.
The problem is, we can't enable MDU in movie mode.

The fact that processing is off isn't the issue, its the fact we can't turn it on.
nitra's Avatar nitra 07:39 PM 08-09-2012
keep in mind this wasn't an issue until I blew the top off of it.

What we need is more feature control, and this gaffe might well get it for us.
eagle_2's Avatar eagle_2 07:46 PM 08-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitra View Post

Samsung isn't alone in disabling everything in movie mode, it's universal across all vendors.
The problem is, we can't enable MDU in movie mode.
The fact that processing is off isn't the issue, its the fact we can't turn it on.

Correct. It's fine if it's off by default, but we should have the option to turn it on just like any other feature. We have settings for motion smoothing, blur reduction, black tone, black enhancer, 10-point white balance, color temp, etc., etc. - but no option to enable one of the main selling points of the tv.
eagle_2's Avatar eagle_2 07:47 PM 08-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitra View Post

keep in mind this wasn't an issue until I blew the top off of it.
What we need is more feature control, and this gaffe might well get it for us.

I really hope you're right. I really do. My experience on the phone today didn't sound promising. They didn't even half understand what I was talking about. The 3rd tech I spoke with asked me "what is ce-dimming?". And her comment "just use movie mode then" didn't sound like more options would be forthcoming. Still, the more we keep on this, the more likely we may get some results.
isupes's Avatar isupes 07:49 PM 08-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitra View Post

Samsung isn't alone in disabling everything in movie mode, it's universal across all vendors.
The problem is, we can't enable MDU in movie mode.
The fact that processing is off isn't the issue, its the fact we can't turn it on.

Understood. And I said it in an earlier post, the lack of choice is infuriating. The average consumer doesn't know that its off by design in movie, nor do they know that all other processing is off is the point I'm making. If no one on this thread would have figured it out we would all be sitting here still thinking MDU was working on all modes. It is, after all, what Samsung would have you believe. Right about now, I kind of wish i was still ignorant to the fact. But I'm not, I have been made to feel like an ass for buying a tv that doesn't work as it should. I apologize for my last few post being heated, but I really am feeling like I have been fooled. 3500 bucks is a lot of money to pay to be made a fool of.
nitra's Avatar nitra 08:28 PM 08-09-2012
Personally, I don't care what's on or off, just give us control of it.
You know, that's what the advanced menu is for.
Tags: Samsung , Displays , Samsung Un46es8000 Led Hdtv , Lcd Hdtv , Samsung Un65es8000 Led Hdtv
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