Minor problem with Westington VR-3225 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 03-15-2012, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone,

I recently got a 32" Westington VR-3225 TV to use as a display for my computer. I connected my machine to the TV using an HDMI cable, and for the most part, it looks great. However, there is a small issue with some fonts where a small white line appears in gray areas, particularly with letters with straight horizontal lines such as A, H, F, etc. I tried using multiple machines with different video cards and the problem persists, suggesting that the problem lies with the display.

It was hard to capture an image of the issue, so I tried to recreate what it looks like in GIMP.

Does anyone know what could be happening here and how to fix it? I know it's a relatively small annoyance, but it would be great to fix
LL
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post #2 of 8 Old 03-15-2012, 01:24 PM
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Try using the VGA interface on your "Westinghouse" TV.
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post #3 of 8 Old 03-15-2012, 03:50 PM
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Are you using HDMI>HDMI or DVI>HDMI?
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post #4 of 8 Old 03-16-2012, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I have tried using VGA, HDMI>HDMI, and DVI>HDMI, but the problem still occurs.

I was able to get some decent pictures of the issue, which I have attached.

This seems to only be an problem with text. However, it is not simply a font issue, for the letters appear fine on other displays.
LL
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post #5 of 8 Old 03-16-2012, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlynch92 View Post

I have tried using VGA, HDMI>HDMI, and DVI>HDMI, but the problem still occurs.

I was able to get some decent pictures of the issue, which I have attached.

This seems to only be an problem with text. However, it is not simply a font issue, for the letters appear fine on other displays.

Have you tried adjusting/turning off ClearType? The sharpness setting isn't "on" in your video card's control panel and TV menu is it?

I don't think any of the other VR-3225 owners have run into this issue but, I will try to direct Sjetski to this thread though since he has one.

For what it's worth, I don't have this issue on my VR-3730 though it obviously has different hardware.
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post #6 of 8 Old 03-16-2012, 04:10 PM
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Hi OP, found this thread via private message from Racer.

This is a brand new issue for me, never heard nor seen anything like it on any display over the years .

I'm going to mirror Racer's current advice by starting with cleartype settings and sharpness settings in your video control panel (the TV doesn't have a sharpness setting in the menu btw).

But while you're at it, in conjunction with your adjusted windows cleartype, try cycling through all of your TV settings again to see if it improves anything.

Let us know how that works and we'll proceed from there.
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post #7 of 8 Old 03-22-2012, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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While cleartype seems to make text slightly better overall, the issue still occurs. Changing display settings on the TV didn't affect things noticibly.

To me, it seems like an anti-aliasing issue with the gray parts of the font. What might be the problem is 4:4:4 display. While this TV is supposed to be capable of 4:4:4, running some visual tests such as the ones found at http:// www. avsforum .com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1371234 (sorry about the spaced url, I have to make 3 posts before I can actually link and the reply auto-detects urls >_>) makes me doubtful of a true 4:4:4 output.

Any thoughts?
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post #8 of 8 Old 03-22-2012, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlynch92 View Post

While cleartype seems to make text slightly better overall, the issue still occurs. Changing display settings on the TV didn't affect things noticibly.

To me, it seems like an anti-aliasing issue with the gray parts of the font. What might be the problem is 4:4:4 display. While this TV is supposed to be capable of 4:4:4, running some visual tests such as the ones found at http:// www. avsforum .com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1371234 (sorry about the spaced url, I have to make 3 posts before I can actually link and the reply auto-detects urls >_>) makes me doubtful of a true 4:4:4 output.

Any thoughts?

If you are using a Nvidia card, you will likely need to do the EDID overide. You can find out how to do that here if you are unsure how to do it.

I also have a concern about how you might be viewing the test image. Please make sure you are viewing it in one of the ways below to rule out a "scaling" issue:

Quote:
Originally Posted by thepoohcontinuum View Post

  • Belle-Nuit Method: Open the image found here: link. Make sure you're at 100% zoom, and pay special attention to the area with the red/cyan columns (to the left of the 20). On a 4:4:4 TV, each red/cyan columns will be perfectly 1 pixel wide. On a non-4:4:4 TV, the red/cyan columns will have alternating thickness - some would be 1 pixel wide while others would be 2-3 pixels wide. Note: for the Bell-Nuit test, you may need a magnifying glass or macro lens to see the pixel widths clearly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_J View Post

at [H]ard|Forum

Viewing the "Bell-nuit test image"

WMI (Windows Image Viewer) needs to have it's window maximized (make sure it's not zoomed in) or, you can click "fit image to window" (Ctrl+O) if you don't have the window maximized. It will not display the test image correctly if you don't do one of those two options.

MPC HCE (Media Player Classic Home Cinema Edition) needs to either have the window maximized or, it needs to be in full screen mode. It will not display the test image correctly if you don't do one of those two options.

WMP (WIndows Media Player) needs to either have the window maximized or, it needs to be in full screen mode. It will not display the test image correctly if you don't do one of those two options.

In case you can not view attachments at AVS, here is the Belle-Nuit Method image:




Quote:
Originally Posted by thepoohcontinuum View Post

  • bspvette86 Test: Forum member bspvette86 has created his own 4:4:4 test pattern, and you can find it here: link. On a 4:4:4 TV, every horizontal and vertical line is exactly one pixel in height and width, respectively. On a non-4:4:4 TV, pixels will appear faded and/or duplicated -- this is most noticeable with the red, blue, and magenta lines. Note: for the bspvette86 test, you may need a magnifying glass or macro lens to see the pixel widths clearly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer_J View Post

at [H]ard|Forum

Viewing the "bspvette86" test image:

WMI (Windows Image Viewer) needs to have it's window maximized (make sure it's not zoomed in) or, you can click "fit image to window" (Ctrl+O) if you don't have the window maximized. It will not display the test image correctly if you don't do one of those two options.

MPC HCE (Media Player Classic Home Cinema Edition) can not display the "bspvette86" test image as it can not render png files.

WMP (WIndows Media Player) needs to be left alone when you open the test image in it. If you maximize the window or enter full screen mode, it will improperly scale the test image.

In case you can not view attachments at AVS, here is the bspvette86 Test image:




You can further verify the results using the following information:

Quote:
Originally Posted by thepoohcontinuum View Post

at AVS

Describing quality differences through words is difficult, so I will let pictures do the talking instead. Here are some A/B comparisons between 4:4:4 and non-4:4:4. All pictures were taken under identical conditions without any post-manipulation (except a resize function).
  • Test 1: Windows Gadget Network Meter (reference image: link)
    • Light-blue and green text on black background - result
    • White and orange text on black background - result
    • Light-blue text on black background - result
  • Test 2: CNN Home Page (reference image: link)
    • White text on red background - result
    • Real life image - result
    • Black text on white background - result
  • Test 3: Chowhound Home Page (reference image: link)
    • Black text on yellow background - result
    • Bolded red text on white background - result
    • Regular red text on white background - result
  • Test 4: Hardforums Forum Page (reference image: link)
    • Text graphic (White text w/ black shadow on orange background) - result
    • Underlined bold orange text on dark gray background - result
    • Underlined regular orange text on dark gray background - result

From the examples, you can clearly see quality differences (except for the real life image). The differences are even more pronounced in-person. So is 4:4:4 a necessity? I certainly think so, especially when it comes to text.

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