Official Sony KDL-46HX750 & KDL-55HX750 Owners Thread - Page 55 - AVS Forum
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post #1621 of 1887 Old 05-28-2013, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by willie pastrano View Post

I have a question.

A number people are recommending Graphics mode. Now if I have the same exact settings on General or Cinema as I do on Graphics then is there really a difference for which Scene select that I choose?

In all honesty (and I'm not disputing whats his name's research and data on the subject at all) I cannot see one bit of difference selecting Graphics mode compared to any other mode, when all other applicable settings are the same. He said blacks are more true blacks and same with the whites but I don't see any of that. What I do see regardless of setting is a decent to sometimes good picture with horrible banding on any horizontally moving image i.e. football/baseball/soccer games or a panning view of a room on an HGTV show (and sometimes on still images as well depending on the source). Le sigh... I just wish Sony still made electronics up to the standards of the early to mid 2000s. My 2007 Bravia picture easily matches my HX750 with zero banding.
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post #1622 of 1887 Old 05-28-2013, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by gatorboi352 View Post

In all honesty (and I'm not disputing whats his name's research and data on the subject at all) I cannot see one bit of difference selecting Graphics mode compared to any other mode, when all other applicable settings are the same. He said blacks are more true blacks and same with the whites but I don't see any of that. What I do see regardless of setting is a decent to sometimes good picture with horrible banding on any horizontally moving image i.e. football/baseball/soccer games or a panning view of a room on an HGTV show (and sometimes on still images as well depending on the source). Le sigh... I just wish Sony still made electronics up to the standards of the early to mid 2000s. My 2007 Bravia picture easily matches my HX750 with zero banding.

Thank you.

I really can't tell the difference either. I've stuck with Graphics when watching a normal tv show, but I switch for sports and when playing games. Sports look great with Clear motion flow on this tv. No complaints there.

I'm gonna switch to General or Cinema when watching a show or a movie for about a week and I'll try and see if there's any difference.
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post #1623 of 1887 Old 05-28-2013, 09:58 AM
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graphics mode isn't a staple....choose the settings that enjoy you more.....for example I don't use any filter except black correction (low), Auto Light Limite (low), so Graphic mode for me is perfect(thanks to the other settings in the picture menu the image is crispy and detailed, and black are very good) ...obviously if you like to use other filters you have to choose other picture settings since in graphics mode most of them are disabled.
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post #1624 of 1887 Old 05-28-2013, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Berseker View Post

graphics mode isn't a staple....choose the settings that enjoy you more.....for example I don't use any filter except black correction (low), Auto Light Limite (low), so Graphic mode for me is perfect(thanks to the other settings in the picture menu the image is crispy and detailed, and black are very good) ...obviously if you like to use other filters you have to choose other picture settings since in graphics mode most of them are disabled.


Gotcha. But really, if you deactivated all of those settings in say Cinema, then it would pretty much look the same as Graphic..... is that right?

I guess i'm just interested if the different Scene Selects only differ from what is greyed out.
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post #1625 of 1887 Old 05-28-2013, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorboi352 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by willie pastrano View Post

I have a question.

A number people are recommending Graphics mode. Now if I have the same exact settings on General or Cinema as I do on Graphics then is there really a difference for which Scene select that I choose?

In all honesty (and I'm not disputing whats his name's research and data on the subject at all) I cannot see one bit of difference selecting Graphics mode compared to any other mode, when all other applicable settings are the same. He said blacks are more true blacks and same with the whites but I don't see any of that. What I do see regardless of setting is a decent to sometimes good picture with horrible banding on any horizontally moving image i.e. football/baseball/soccer games or a panning view of a room on an HGTV show (and sometimes on still images as well depending on the source). Le sigh... I just wish Sony still made electronics up to the standards of the early to mid 2000s. My 2007 Bravia picture easily matches my HX750 with zero banding.


I agree with you gator on everything except the banding which my tv has none of and I have looked for it. I also agree with your statement about Sony still making electronics like they used to. I think 2012 was one of their best years as far as making HDTV's. This year? I think they have taken a step back with their 2013 HDTV lineup. They need to get back to what made them great but it may be to late for that. Time will tell.
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post #1626 of 1887 Old 05-28-2013, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

I agree with you gator on everything except the banding which my tv has none of and I have looked for it. I also agree with your statement about Sony still making electronics like they used to. I think 2012 was one of their best years as far as making HDTV's. This year? I think they have taken a step back with their 2013 HDTV lineup. They need to get back to what made them great but it may be to late for that. Time will tell.
Completely agree with you...many reviews show as w8 series is no better then 2012 line up.(plus it has passive 3d....no thanks) I'm curious to view a sample of w9 line just to evaluate the new trilluminos display
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post #1627 of 1887 Old 05-28-2013, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by willie pastrano View Post

Gotcha. But really, if you deactivated all of those settings in say Cinema, then it would pretty much look the same as Graphic..... is that right?

I guess i'm just interested if the different Scene Selects only differ from what is greyed out.
Probably yes for the same usage scdnarios
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post #1628 of 1887 Old 05-28-2013, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willie pastrano View Post

Gotcha. But really, if you deactivated all of those settings in say Cinema, then it would pretty much look the same as Graphic..... is that right?

I guess i'm just interested if the different Scene Selects only differ from what is greyed out.

I'm starting to think that aside from certain picture options being greyed out, all Scene Selects really are is just a starting point of pre-set picture settings. For instance, when you put on Cinema SS, it just puts it at a starting point of Warm 2 and various other settings, whereas Vivid just puts it at Cool 2 with various settings jacked all the way up. In every Scene Select, you have the ability to adjust everything that isn't greyed out back to a default setting, at which point you wouldn't know what SS you have selected to begin with! Marketing fluff is nearly all I'm seeing.
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post #1629 of 1887 Old 05-28-2013, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

I agree with you gator on everything except the banding which my tv has none of and I have looked for it. I also agree with your statement about Sony still making electronics like they used to. I think 2012 was one of their best years as far as making HDTV's. This year? I think they have taken a step back with their 2013 HDTV lineup. They need to get back to what made them great but it may be to late for that. Time will tell.

I still think their 2012 line up was a step down from their 2011 line up, which in itself was a step down and so on and so on. Sony really hit a financial wall around 07-08 and really bad in 09. They have JUST started to recover (thanks in large part to selling off 2 of their multibillion dollar buildings) and I think their electronics have suffered the worst over the last 4-5 years.

You sir have just gotten lucky with your set, I feel. I've lost count of all the people just in this thread alone that have had less than stellar experiences with their 750s and its really a shame and inexcusable for a luxury item priced as high as Sony stuff is.

/rant smile.gif
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post #1630 of 1887 Old 05-28-2013, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorboi352 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

I agree with you gator on everything except the banding which my tv has none of and I have looked for it. I also agree with your statement about Sony still making electronics like they used to. I think 2012 was one of their best years as far as making HDTV's. This year? I think they have taken a step back with their 2013 HDTV lineup. They need to get back to what made them great but it may be to late for that. Time will tell.

I still think their 2012 line up was a step down from their 2011 line up, which in itself was a step down and so on and so on. Sony really hit a financial wall around 07-08 and really bad in 09. They have JUST started to recover (thanks in large part to selling off 2 of their multibillion dollar buildings) and I think their electronics have suffered the worst over the last 4-5 years.

You sir have just gotten lucky with your set, I feel. I've lost count of all the people just in this thread alone that have had less than stellar experiences with their 750s and its really a shame and inexcusable for a luxury item priced as high as Sony stuff is.

/rant smile.gif


Yea gator I guess I got lucky and yes it is a shame that some have had such crappy experiences with their tv's and yes its unexcusable. But in this hobby of ours its a hit and miss game and the luck of the draw. I dont mean to sound heartless when I say that because its not meant that way but it is what it is and we all take a gamble when we buy our tv's. No tv is perfect....except maybe the Pioneer Kuro wink.gif
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post #1631 of 1887 Old 05-29-2013, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by gatorboi352 View Post

I'm starting to think that aside from certain picture options being greyed out, all Scene Selects really are is just a starting point of pre-set picture settings. For instance, when you put on Cinema SS, it just puts it at a starting point of Warm 2 and various other settings, whereas Vivid just puts it at Cool 2 with various settings jacked all the way up. In every Scene Select, you have the ability to adjust everything that isn't greyed out back to a default setting, at which point you wouldn't know what SS you have selected to begin with! Marketing fluff is nearly all I'm seeing.

Yeah I think that's it Gator. It's just a starting point and then you can adjust the Scene Select settings in order to have a satisfactory setting for sports, games, movies, and animation. I was just interested on why some people were using the Graphics setting.


Do you ever change it from Current Input to Common? I still don't understand the meaning of that unless it's just to have 2 different settings packages for each scene.
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post #1632 of 1887 Old 05-29-2013, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by willie pastrano View Post

Yeah I think that's it Gator. It's just a starting point and then you can adjust the Scene Select settings in order to have a satisfactory setting for sports, games, movies, and animation. I was just interested on why some people were using the Graphics setting.


Do you ever change it from Current Input to Common? I still don't understand the meaning of that unless it's just to have 2 different settings packages for each scene.

I see a difference on Graphics, to be completely honest. I think Graphics mode has true 1:1 pixel mapping from the incoming source, so 1080p inputs look truer and crisper to me. I had switched to Graphics mode as mentioned previously and didn't tell my wife. She asked me what was up with the tv and why it was looking better that night, and she's not really a technophile.
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post #1633 of 1887 Old 05-29-2013, 01:10 PM
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with sky decoder connect to hdmi I can choose Graphics mode

I can't with my cable provider, it doesn't matter to me tbh as the blacks are washed out in graphics mode on my HX85, it acts like game mode and makes the local dimming less aggressive. So a no go for me.
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post #1634 of 1887 Old 05-30-2013, 02:59 AM
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Bought hx750. Its realy good with movies and stuff, but for games? In normal mode i've measured 90ms input lag, its unplayable for me. Impuls mode goes to 70, but its useless anyways. Game mode does have 20ms but all that smearing.. meh, pixel response time in this mode without motion flow is pretty standard = weak. Dunno, maybe ill just go on with over time, but for big dissapointment. Previosly had a plasma. Any ideas how to make motion flow work with low input lag?
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post #1635 of 1887 Old 05-30-2013, 06:20 AM
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I see a difference on Graphics, to be completely honest. I think Graphics mode has true 1:1 pixel mapping from the incoming source, so 1080p inputs look truer and crisper to me. I had switched to Graphics mode as mentioned previously and didn't tell my wife. She asked me what was up with the tv and why it was looking better that night, and she's not really a technophile.

Maybe you're right. But why would they only have one scene select that gives 1:1 pixel mapping?
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post #1636 of 1887 Old 05-30-2013, 08:32 AM
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I never understood this. If i don´t measure i almost never feel the difference in MS.
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post #1637 of 1887 Old 05-30-2013, 08:33 AM
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I believe the 1:1 is done with the Full Pixel option instead of the scene mode. This is a Placebo.
But this is just my humble opinion.
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post #1638 of 1887 Old 05-30-2013, 08:38 AM
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I see a difference on Graphics, to be completely honest. I think Graphics mode has true 1:1 pixel mapping from the incoming source, so 1080p inputs look truer and crisper to me. I had switched to Graphics mode as mentioned previously and didn't tell my wife. She asked me what was up with the tv and why it was looking better that night, and she's not really a technophile.

" I think Graphics mode has true 1:1 pixel mapping from the incoming source, so 1080p inputs look truer and crisper to me."

You are correct, but once again, its only a pre-set starting point. That 1:1 pixel mapping can be obtained in other Scene Selects as well. Just go into the Screen setting menu and i believe its under "Wide mode"? Could be wrong, but its the setting that has the option of 'Full' as opposed to 'Normal'. Full will give you true 1080p pixel mapping in any Scene Select you are in. 'Graphics' just starts out with it set to Full.
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post #1639 of 1887 Old 05-30-2013, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by willie pastrano View Post

Maybe you're right. But why would they only have one scene select that gives 1:1 pixel mapping?

They don't, see my reply above. Hope it helps!
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post #1640 of 1887 Old 05-30-2013, 08:41 AM
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I believe the 1:1 is done with the Full Pixel option instead of the scene mode. This is a Placebo.
But this is just my humble opinion.

Yep, you are correct!
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post #1641 of 1887 Old 05-30-2013, 08:43 AM
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Bought hx750. Its realy good with movies and stuff, but for games? In normal mode i've measured 90ms input lag, its unplayable for me. Impuls mode goes to 70, but its useless anyways. Game mode does have 20ms but all that smearing.. meh, pixel response time in this mode without motion flow is pretty standard = weak. Dunno, maybe ill just go on with over time, but for big dissapointment. Previosly had a plasma. Any ideas how to make motion flow work with low input lag?

Weird, on my 750 my games have hardly any lag (although still a slight more lag than my Wii U Gamepad screen which is sometimes annoying not having them synced up to the exact millisecond wink.gif ). But without the Gamepad screen being there as a comparison, I never see a discernible lag to any of my games. Response time is always around 30ms which i believe is pretty standard for LCD/LED sets? Also, never use a Motionflow setting while in Game mode playing a game.
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post #1642 of 1887 Old 05-30-2013, 09:22 AM
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Found the 55" at BB for a decent price...catch is, it's an open box. I can always get the 2yr warranty, i just want to make sure this TV is all that and a bag of a potato chips. Coming of the Panny TC-P55ST30 (had multiple PS failures so i sold it)

Any general feedback would be helpful...is it worth taking a risk on or should i keep looking?
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post #1643 of 1887 Old 05-30-2013, 09:44 AM
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Weird, on my 750 my games have hardly any lag (although still a slight more lag than my Wii U Gamepad screen which is sometimes annoying not having them synced up to the exact millisecond wink.gif ). But without the Gamepad screen being there as a comparison, I never see a discernible lag to any of my games. Response time is always around 30ms which i believe is pretty standard for LCD/LED sets? Also, never use a Motionflow setting while in Game mode playing a game.

You cant use motion flow setting in game mode, its grayed out. :/ Sad that tv costing this much is so bad in gaming terms, cant imagine how ppl play on cheaper sets. U cant go on with interpolation modes because it will give big lags, and you cant play without it because of motion blur. *facepalm* Picture is great though, but starting to feel plasma would be a better choice even thou they flicker (main reason for switching to lcd) and take more energy (in 50''+ it does make difference).
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post #1644 of 1887 Old 05-30-2013, 11:25 AM
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They don't, see my reply above. Hope it helps!

Gotcha. I put the settings on Full Pixel mapping when I got the tv and havent changed it so I guess it's still 1:1.
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post #1645 of 1887 Old 05-30-2013, 12:12 PM
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You cant use motion flow setting in game mode, its grayed out. :/ Sad that tv costing this much is so bad in gaming terms, cant imagine how ppl play on cheaper sets. U cant go on with interpolation modes because it will give big lags, and you cant play without it because of motion blur. *facepalm* Picture is great though, but starting to feel plasma would be a better choice even thou they flicker (main reason for switching to lcd) and take more energy (in 50''+ it does make difference).

I gotta ask, what is your definition of "so bad in gaming terms"? This set is almost flawless when I game on my Wii U and PS3! Aside from the vertical banding of course, which isn't unique to my video game efforts at all. I'm wondering what kind of connections you have running from your console to the TV? Component? Older non-high speed HDMI? Curious...
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post #1646 of 1887 Old 05-30-2013, 12:45 PM
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I gotta ask, what is your definition of "so bad in gaming terms"? This set is almost flawless when I game on my Wii U and PS3! Aside from the vertical banding of course, which isn't unique to my video game efforts at all. I'm wondering what kind of connections you have running from your console to the TV? Component? Older non-high speed HDMI? Curious...

I have an XBOX 360 and no complaints either about gaming on this tv. Could the lag come from playing online maybe? Some people's connection can cause that.
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post #1647 of 1887 Old 05-30-2013, 12:59 PM
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I have an XBOX 360 and no complaints either about gaming on this tv. Could the lag come from playing online maybe? Some people's connection can cause that.

Yeah maybe. I'm thinking he is talking about reaction time from the time he presses a button to the response on the TV, and that would fall right in line with internet slowness.
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post #1648 of 1887 Old 05-30-2013, 01:42 PM
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Count me as one that love gaming on this tv. Not sure what he is complaining either.
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post #1649 of 1887 Old 05-30-2013, 02:04 PM
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1. Input lag aka 'reaction from the time I press the button to response on tv'.
2. Pixel response time aka blur/ghosting.

Try playing some fast games like DMC or Gears, firts on normal or whatever mode your using and then switch to game mode, its like day and night, how can u not tell the difference..? Like i've said, I did some measurments with my laptop, the difference was approx 90ms in normal modes and 20 in game/m. And in that one it blurs to much, when you look around I see that immediatly, had a good plasma for 5 years.
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post #1650 of 1887 Old 05-30-2013, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by uQuad View Post

1. Input lag aka 'reaction from the time I press the button to response on tv'.
2. Pixel response time aka blur/ghosting.

Try playing some fast games like DMC or Gears, firts on normal or whatever mode your using and then switch to game mode, its like day and night, how can u not tell the difference..? Like i've said, I did some measurments with my laptop, the difference was approx 90ms in normal modes and 20 in game/m. And in that one it blurs to much, when you look around I see that immediatly, had a good plasma for 5 years.

I see blurring/ghosting but only in Normal mode. No lag or delay there.

Game mode is flawless for me. Maybe a bum set?
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