Official Samsung UNXXES6100 Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 866 Old 05-01-2012, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Centinul View Post

Just a bit of an update.

Problem

I have a PC hooked up to the TV via HDMI. When the HDMI input type is set to "---" the picture looks great but there is extremely noticeable flickering when transitioning between light and dark scenes.

When the HDMI input is set to "PC" the flickering disappears but I can't configure the TV settings to get an acceptable picture. There is very noticeable clouding.

Things I've tried:
  1. Updated the firmware
  2. Updated my GPU drivers
  3. Switched HDMI cables
  4. Switched HDMI ports

I tried hooking up my Roku LT. This did not exhibit any problems whatsoever. I'd be inclined to say it's my PC but I disagree for two reasons:
  1. Before I had this TV I had it hooked up to a Samsung LNT3242H with no problems
  2. I would expect the flickering to be present regardless of the HDMI input type selected on the TV

Anyone have any input? What different type of processing does the TV do when the HDMI input type is changed?

I can ck this with mine, this weekend. i have not hooked up any hdmi as of yet. you made the adjustments yet to try to reduce the clouding? there is a link in this section that shows recommended settings. "if" you have another way of cking the inputs, via another source of output (pc) then test this. is it within warranty? if so, you'd have an avenue of exchanging.
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post #92 of 866 Old 05-01-2012, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by drmax View Post

I can ck this with mine, this weekend. i have not hooked up any hdmi as of yet. you made the adjustments yet to try to reduce the clouding? there is a link in this section that shows recommended settings. "if" you have another way of cking the inputs, via another source of output (pc) then test this. is it within warranty? if so, you'd have an avenue of exchanging.

I tried to adjust the picture settings when the HDMI input was set to "PC" but I couldn't find something that I was happy with. The clouding was significantly more noticeable and the blacks were much more washed out. I even configured as many available settings as I could to be the same between "---" and "PC" and they just didn't compare.

I tried a Roku LT via HDMI and it didn't exhibit any of the issues. I do have another laptop with HDMI out that I will be trying shortly to attempt to isolate the problem.

Even if another PC doesn't exhibit the problem I still don't see how it could be a problem with the PC. If it was, why wouldn't it do it regardless of the HDMI input type?
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post #93 of 866 Old 05-01-2012, 08:14 PM
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So I tried another PC (Laptop) hooked up via the same HDMI connection and it did not exhibit the issue.
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post #94 of 866 Old 05-01-2012, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Centinul View Post

So I tried another PC (Laptop) hooked up via the same HDMI connection and it did not exhibit the issue.

well, if the problem is not following the output source, then it's an issue (for whatever reason) with the main pc that you started with. Who know, could be noise in the electrical sys. of that pc. I have a brand spankin new asus that seems to exhibit some line/noise in the picture, now and again. You got a surge/power protector on that pc? Hope I'm following you on this correctly. It don't seem to be the tv's issue. The clowding, on the other hand, is an issue. I had to start another thread on this, as I'm not getting good results from peeps in this thread. Search my name and you may get help that away, on that issue.
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post #95 of 866 Old 05-01-2012, 08:38 PM
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well, if the problem is not following the output source, then it's an issue (for whatever reason) with the main pc that you started with. Who know, could be noise in the electrical sys. of that pc. I have a brand spankin new asus that seems to exhibit some line/noise in the picture, now and again. You got a surge/power protector on that pc? Hope I'm following you on this correctly. It don't seem to be the tv's issue. The clowding, on the other hand, is an issue. I had to start another thread on this, as I'm not getting good results from peeps in this thread. Search my name and you may get help that away, on that issue.

I understand where you are coming from and part of me agrees with you. It's definitely a tough one. I would expect problems when the main PC is hooked up to another TV but there are none. I have a bit more information though.

If I set the HDMI input type to "---" and press the Info (i) button a little dial shows up in the bottom right and it's about one tick above the bottom on the LED TV side.

If I set the HDMI input type to "PC" and press the Info (i) button the dial is about 8 clicks up from the bottom on the LED TV side.

I've configured the picture settings to be the same for all settings that are available in both modes. So it appears the TV does do something different depending on the HDMI input type. What exactly I'm not sure. I wish I knew because I'd like to get similar picture quality with HDMI input set to "PC."
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post #96 of 866 Old 05-01-2012, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Centinul View Post

I understand where you are coming from and part of me agrees with you. I have a bit more information.

If I set the HDMI input type to "---" and press the Info (i) button a little dial shows up in the bottom right and it's about one tick above the bottom on the LED TV side.

If I set the HDMI input type to "PC" and press the Info (i) button the dial is about 8 clicks up from the bottom on the LED TV side.

I've configured the picture settings to be the same for all settings that are available in both modes. So it appears the TV does do something different depending on the HDMI input type. What exactly I'm not sure. I wish I knew because I'd like to get similar picture quality with HDMI input set to "PC."

learning curve. perhaps a better online manual, as opposed to the cheezy manual that came with it. You still under warranty or return policy?
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post #97 of 866 Old 05-01-2012, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by drmax View Post

learning curve. perhaps a better online manual, as opposed to the cheezy manual that came with it. You still under warranty or return policy?

I've exceeded the return policy but I am under warranty still (it's a year I think). I ran all this by Samsung support and they recommended a service interestingly enough.
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post #98 of 866 Old 05-01-2012, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Centinul View Post

I've exceeded the return policy but I am under warranty still (it's a year I think). I ran all this by Samsung support and they recommended a service interestingly enough.

says 2 yrs here...
http://www.samsung.com/my/support/wa...OLICY.WARRANTY
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post #99 of 866 Old 05-02-2012, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by drmax View Post

From my earlier plea for advice...is it possible to get one of these model of tv that "do not" have the clouds/flashlighting effect...or is this just the nature of this beast? I still have the option of exchanging. Is there a certain number on the set, or somewhere to know what a person is getting? I'm not gonna go through 10 sets to get one good one, without knowing what I'm doing.
Also, unsure if this effect gets worse over time? If thats the case, it's going back.
Please advise. Thx, DM

I can't answer for sure. But my flashlighting is minimal and I cannot see clouding. Having really looked for it but it's definitely not something that you just notice.
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post #100 of 866 Old 05-05-2012, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmax View Post

From my earlier plea for advice...is it possible to get one of these model of tv that "do not" have the clouds/flashlighting effect...or is this just the nature of this beast? I still have the option of exchanging. Is there a certain number on the set, or somewhere to know what a person is getting? I'm not gonna go through 10 sets to get one good one, without knowing what I'm doing.
Also, unsure if this effect gets worse over time? If thats the case, it's going back.
Please advise. Thx, DM

I joined this forum to answer this question, based solely on my own experience. In fact this thread helped a lot with this television. My first UN55E6100 had flashlighting in the lower and upper right corners. I waited, thinking it would go away. It did not. Samsung suggested a service call. I exchanged the unit within 30 days instead. The second unit was even worse than the first! The entire right side was flashlighting, and there was a light blob on the middle of the left side. I really wanted to like this television, but I just could not live with the light blobs, as I call them. I exchanged the second unit for a Panasonic TC-P50U50 plasma. No more light blobs.
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post #101 of 866 Old 05-06-2012, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled View Post

I joined this forum to answer this question, based solely on my own experience. In fact this thread helped a lot with this television. My first UN55E6100 had flash lighting in the lower and upper right corners. I waited, thinking it would go away. It did not. Samsung suggested a service call. I exchanged the unit within 30 days instead. The second unit was even worse than the first! The entire right side was flash lighting, and there was a light blob on the middle of the left side. I really wanted to like this television, but I just could not live with the light blobs, as I call them. I exchanged the second unit for a Panasonic TC-P50U50 plasma. No more light blobs.

that's another name for them. i watched mine again last night, and when the entire picture is used, its hard to notice. (and in a darker scene in a dark bedroom, which is where tv is located). Strangely enough, I've posted this question my similar question in 5 different forums and no response, other than yours. My assumption, is people are getting them regardless of this issue and that there is NO way any panel is better than the other, nor is there any way of telling which one is which. It's not a panel loto, its roulette. Take care
PS. I would have gotten plasma...but my size is 39" cabinet. The only other set would be Soney or Sharp...and they have the same issues, with "less" features. I can say this TV has more that those others have to offer, uh...and they all throw in flashlights!
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post #102 of 866 Old 05-06-2012, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by drmax View Post

that's another name for them. i watched mine again last night, and when the entire picture is used, its hard to notice. (and in a darker scene in a dark bedroom, which is where tv is located). Strangely enough, I've posted this question my similar question in 5 different forums and no response, other than yours. My assumption, is people are getting them regardless of this issue and that there is NO way any panel is better than the other, nor is there any way of telling which one is which. It's not a panel loto, its roulette. Take care

I bought a Samsung ES6100 (40") a few weeks ago from Best Buy and it had severe flashlighting and cloudiness. There were at least half dozen palm-sized blobs in the middle of the screen as well as flashlighting from the corners. Also, the left and right thirds of the screen were noticably brighter than the middle third, likely due to the edge-lit nature of the panel.

I made these evaluations in extreme conditionscompletely dark room when viewing a near-complete black background, keeping in mind that the backlight will automatically shut off entirely if the screen image is completely black. And yes, these issues were noticable even with the backlight turned all the way down. Of course, in the daytime with a lot of ambient lighting, these issues were not visible.

As you eluded to, backlight bleeding issues are hard to assess on internet forums. Those who say their panel is perfect are likely not looking at it under the extreme conditions described above. Those who say their panel is defective maybe be looking at it too hard for flaws. And as you say, some panels will be worse than others.

I tried the reported methods of fixing the uneven backlighting described in this article
http://www.ehow.com/how_6516595_fix-...v-screens.html
I did not notice any effect on my panel, but you may try it as a last resort.

I wound up returning the set and got a Samsung EH6000 (40), which has a full-array LED backlight. This set had much better backlight uniformity, though not perfect; the eHow fix described above actually made it noticably better. I'm pretty happy with new the set!

P.S. I was one of the first people to report uneven backlighting with LCD panels (see my post history for proof). I had these issues with a 32 Sony LCD panel I bought in 2005 (paid around $1500!). There was a mega-sized thread discussing cloudiness with Sony LCD panels in which I described my experiences. The fix-it methods described in the above eHow article were actually derived from MY experiences suggested in that old thread. Nonetheless, when I recently was in the market for a new LCD panel and was doing research, I was disappointed to learn that these LCD uneven backlighting issues still exist. I would have thought that manufacturers would have ironed out these issues by now.
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post #103 of 866 Old 05-06-2012, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by kontai69 View Post

I bought a Samsung ES6100 (40") a few weeks ago from Best Buy and it had severe flashlighting and cloudiness. There were at least half dozen palm-sized blobs in the middle of the screen as well as flashlighting from the corners. Also, the left and right thirds of the screen were noticably brighter than the middle third, likely due to the edge-lit nature of the panel.

I made these evaluations in “extreme” conditions…completely dark room when viewing a “near-complete” black background, keeping in mind that the backlight will automatically shut off entirely if the screen image is completely black. And yes, these issues were noticable even with the backlight turned all the way down. Of course, in the daytime with a lot of ambient lighting, these issues were not visible.

As you eluded to, backlight bleeding issues are hard to assess on internet forums. Those who say their panel is “perfect” are likely not looking at it under the “extreme” conditions described above. Those who say their panel is defective maybe be looking at it too hard for flaws. And as you say, some panels will be worse than others.

I tried the reported methods of “fixing” the uneven backlighting described in this article…
http://www.ehow.com/how_6516595_fix-...v-screens.html
I did not notice any effect on my panel, but you may try it as a last resort.

I wound up returning the set and got a Samsung EH6000 (40”), which has a full-array LED backlight. This set had much better backlight uniformity, though not perfect; the eHow fix described above actually made it noticably better. I’m pretty happy with new the set!

P.S. I was one of the first people to report uneven backlighting with LCD panels (see my post history for proof). I had these issues with a 32” Sony LCD panel I bought in 2005 (paid around $1500!). There was a mega-sized thread discussing cloudiness with Sony LCD panels in which I described my experiences. The fix-it methods described in the above eHow article were actually derived from MY experiences suggested in that old thread. Nonetheless, when I recently was in the market for a new LCD panel and was doing research, I was disappointed to learn that these LCD uneven backlighting issues still exist. I would have thought that manufacturers would have ironed out these issues by now.

wow, exactly what mine is doing. Unfort., it'll be going back. How much for the full array and from where? I see walmart selling the Samsung UN40EH5300 that has everything, but it CMR is at 120, which is plenty enough for me and is $648. I may give this one a whirl, unless I can pick up a full array for another $100.
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post #104 of 866 Old 05-06-2012, 12:48 PM
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6000 is not full array.
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post #105 of 866 Old 05-06-2012, 01:13 PM
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6000 is not full array.

There is conflicting info whether the EH series is full-array or edge-lit. However, posts in the thread below (especially post #40) convinces me that it does have a full-array LED backlight...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1395734
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post #106 of 866 Old 05-06-2012, 02:57 PM
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There is conflicting info whether the EH series is full-array or edge-lit. However, posts in the thread below (especially post #40) convinces me that it does have a full-array LED backlight...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1395734

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-33379_1-573...ray-backlight/
what you have is less of a tv (in gidgitery) than the one your returned, being the 6100. As long as your picture looks good and you're happy, then that's all that matters. I'm returning mine and taking into a dark room at hhgregg to show them the issue. then opening another tv and see if there is a differenve. ******** spending nearly $1k and getting subpar quality. Who gives a damn if it's under 1" thick. Make smaller plasma sets and when they get their act together, then re-release LED tv's.
PS. if anyone is confused with my above link, my point is...if they don't have full array on their top tv, in ain't gonna be on anything of the lesser.
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post #107 of 866 Old 05-06-2012, 03:46 PM
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http://ces.cnet.com/8301-33379_1-573...ray-backlight/
what you have is less of a tv (in gidgitery) than the one your returned, being the 6100. As long as your picture looks good and you're happy, then that's all that matters.

True. I actually didn't even need the internet functions of the 6100. My Sony Blu-ray player has those capabilities and I don't even use them. Laugh if you will, but I paid more for the 6100 for cosmetic reasons...I like the spider stand and the clear bezel, metal backpanel looks nicer. Also, it's super thiness looks cool.
Nonetheless, I'm pretty happy with the "lesser" EH6000's PQ. Once adjusted, it is comparable (to my eyes) to the 6100 without the distracting backlight issues.

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[url]
PS. if anyone is confused with my above link, my point is...if they don't have full array on their top tv, in ain't gonna be on anything of the lesser.

That would be logical. However, the article in this link quoting a Samsung marketing V.P. says the EH series is full-array...
http://www.twice.com/article/481604-...e_For_2012.php

"Dave Das, Samsung TV product marketing VP, said the new direct-lit EH LED TVs will serve as a stepping stone between a narrowed assortment of entry CCFL models and higher performing Slim Line LED LCD TVs that use an edge-lighting approach that affords thinner panel depths and further improvements to picture performance...All of the EH models use a so-called full array LED mounting system, where LEDs are positioned all the way across the LCD panel back plane. This has traditionally been positioned by Samsung and others as a superior form of LED technology. But Das said to reduce the price, the new sets use fewer LEDs than earlier full-array models. Samsung is not disclosing exactly how many LEDs or how many sectors of LEDs are employed."

Not definitive proof, but convincing enough for me. I'm tempted to crack open the set and try to see for myself.
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post #108 of 866 Old 05-06-2012, 04:18 PM
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True. I actually didn't even need the internet functions of the 6100. My Sony Blu-ray player has those capabilities and I don't even use them. Laugh if you will, but I paid more for the 6100 for cosmetic reasons...I like the spider stand and the clear bezel, metal backpanel looks nicer. Also, it's super thiness looks cool.
Nonetheless, I'm pretty happy with the "lesser" EH6000's PQ. Once adjusted, it is comparable (to my eyes) to the 6100 without the distracting backlight issues.



That would be logical. However, the article in this link quoting a Samsung marketing V.P. says the EH series is full-array...
http://www.twice.com/article/481604-...e_For_2012.php

"Dave Das, Samsung TV product marketing VP, said the new direct-lit EH LED TVs will serve as a stepping stone between a narrowed assortment of entry CCFL models and higher performing Slim Line LED LCD TVs that use an edge-lighting approach that affords thinner panel depths and further improvements to picture performance...All of the EH models use a so-called full array LED mounting system, where LEDs are positioned all the way across the LCD panel back plane. This has traditionally been positioned by Samsung and others as a superior form of LED technology. But Das said to reduce the price, the new sets use fewer LEDs than earlier full-array models. Samsung is not disclosing exactly how many LEDs or how many sectors of LEDs are employed."

Not definitive proof, but convincing enough for me. I'm tempted to crack open the set and try to see for myself.

Glad you're happy. From reading, there may be 1 strip of LED's through the middle, but not equally distributed. I don't need internet tv. I feel certain the 6000's technology is the same as 6100, and you just happened on a better panel, hence the "panel lottery" syndrome. Cheers and when your gets cracked open, let us knows what's in there!
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post #109 of 866 Old 05-06-2012, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I can see minimal flashlighting especially when I have black bars on top and bottom. But how are you guys noticing cloudiness? Is it with test patterns? Because I cannot tell with normal content.
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post #110 of 866 Old 05-07-2012, 03:32 AM
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I can see minimal flashlighting especially when I have black bars on top and bottom. But how are you guys noticing cloudiness? Is it with test patterns? Because I cannot tell with normal content.

only between scenes, when it goes black and only when it's a dark room. your screen may not be effected. not only in my corners, but 2 times in the bottom as well.
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post #111 of 866 Old 05-07-2012, 05:48 AM
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Ran across LG 42PM4700 plasma that is under 39" cab width. YES! Even 3D with cheap active glasses. The $400 difference will take several yrs to make up (plasma high energy) for the initial cost savings, be this set is less $. Samy going back until they get their S^*T together. I'll keep an eye on this thread with a flashlight...in my hand...not from within tv.
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post #112 of 866 Old 05-07-2012, 07:02 PM
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How does these sets compare to last years D6300/6400 series?
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post #113 of 866 Old 05-07-2012, 07:18 PM
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Anyone else notice a better picture after the latest firmware? Cloudiness is gone and colors seem more vibrant. Overall a better picture IMHO.

aka GadgetboySTL - Thom & Jeff Show - St. Louis, MO
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post #114 of 866 Old 05-07-2012, 07:37 PM
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Anyone else notice a better picture after the latest firmware? Cloudiness is gone and colors seem more vibrant. Overall a better picture IMHO.

Question, does this tv show the firmware updates and what they were for? Oddly enough I was trying to show my wife the picture issues and for some odd reason, I could not see it as apparent. 1 day ago it took an update, but it was for when I was trying to access the apps. Please advise. I can't see how smudgy white clouds could be corrected by f/w. This is worth getting to the bottom of. I'd keep this set, if it were fixed.
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post #115 of 866 Old 05-07-2012, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Can someone please explain what they see with "cloudiness"? And what format. I've yet to see any blur when watching normal content. I do see flashlighting though. But it's minimal and only when the corners are black.
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post #116 of 866 Old 05-07-2012, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by InsuranceWhiz View Post

Can someone please explain what they see with "cloudiness"? And what format. I've yet to see any blur when watching normal content. I do see flashlighting though. But it's minimal and only when the corners are black.

Very faint but noticeable light smudges, that would appear to look like clouds, maybe the size of your hand and an irregular shape. This would be on any of the 4 settings. The effect "might" be minimized by reducing the back light setting. My 3 or 4 smudges are (or were...have to check this out again when I get home) just under an imaginary horizontal line through the midle of screen. Unsure what the hell causes it. You'd only be able to see this in a darker scene, in a darker room. I could see it (in a darker room) when I'd go between channels. I've already previously said this to you...."your set may not have this issue".
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post #117 of 866 Old 05-08-2012, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by drmax View Post

Very faint but noticeable light smudges, that would appear to look like clouds, maybe the size of your hand and an irregular shape. This would be on any of the 4 settings. The effect "might" be minimized by reducing the back light setting. My 3 or 4 smudges are (or were...have to check this out again when I get home) just under an imaginary horizontal line through the midle of screen. Unsure what the hell causes it. You'd only be able to see this in a darker scene, in a darker room. I could see it (in a darker room) when I'd go between channels. I've already previously said this to you...."your set may not have this issue".

I'll look more closely on mine but I haven't noticed anything yet. Maybe I got lucky.
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post #118 of 866 Old 05-08-2012, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsuranceWhiz View Post

Can someone please explain what they see with "cloudiness"?

This article has a couple pictures of severe cloudiness (or "mura" as it is known in the industry)...
http://guide2lcdtv.com/2008/10/check...d-televisions/
My ES6100 had cloudiness that looked similar to the first pic in the "clouding/mura" section of the article. I also had the "pillaring" defect described as well. And yes, I tried lowering the backlight (to 0) but still saw the defects.

To best evaluate cloudiness on an LCD panel, you have to look at it under "extreme" conditions. Make sure the room is totally dark (NO ambient lighting). Switch the backlight setting to max (20 with Samsungs). Display a near black screen. If it is completely black, the backlight will automatically shut off completely. I like to use the end credits of a movie with white text and black background. If there is any cloudiness, you will see it.

Some people are going to laugh and say..."the extreme conditions described above are NOT realistic. Why the heck are you staring at black screens all day with the backlight set to max? I personally watch normal content on my TV so I won't really see any cloudiness even if its there."
That would be correct. But to the anal compulsive types (myself included), it bothers us. But for the less discerning, cloudiness won't be much of an issue.


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Originally Posted by drmax View Post

Unsure what the hell causes it.

Good info describing the cause of LCD cloudiness...
http://www.elotouch.com/Support/Tech...pport/mura.asp
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post #119 of 866 Old 05-08-2012, 10:37 AM
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All i read is negative comments....so this TV any good at all compared to D6530 model? I'm buying 37'' ES6100 here in SLOVENIJA.....
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post #120 of 866 Old 05-08-2012, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kontai69 View Post

This article has a couple pictures of severe cloudiness (or "mura" as it is known in the industry)...
http://guide2lcdtv.com/2008/10/check...d-televisions/
My ES6100 had cloudiness that looked similar to the first pic in the "clouding/mura" section of the article. I also had the "pillaring" defect described as well. And yes, I tried lowering the backlight (to 0) but still saw the defects.

To best evaluate cloudiness on an LCD panel, you have to look at it under "extreme" conditions. Make sure the room is totally dark (NO ambient lighting). Switch the backlight setting to max (20 with Samsungs). Display a near black screen. If it is completely black, the backlight will automatically shut off completely. I like to use the end credits of a movie with white text and black background. If there is any cloudiness, you will see it.

Some people are going to laugh and say..."the extreme conditions described above are NOT realistic. Why the heck are you staring at black screens all day with the backlight set to max? I personally watch normal content on my TV so I won't really see any cloudiness even if its there."
That would be correct. But to the anal compulsive types (myself included), it bothers us. But for the less discerning, cloudiness won't be much of an issue.




Good info describing the cause of LCD cloudiness...
http://www.elotouch.com/Support/Tech...pport/mura.asp

thx for pointing out the pictures and the definitions. very useful. so what did you end up doing? if exchanged, was the other set better?
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