Flashlighting / Lightbleed on new LG 55LM7600 - What is "acceptable"? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 44 Old 05-02-2012, 01:45 PM
 
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Clearly, then, you are a perfectionist and can't understand anyone who just wants a decent and satisfying picture. . . See, I get both sides also.

Also. . . the closer you keep looking the more warts you will see. Myself and the majority of others are very happy with the settings we can obtain through our own means. . . whatever they may be. Not my standards, yours, or the experts.

As an aside, I was away for a week watching other TVs off and on as I traveled. I came home and am amazed all over again at the picture quality I have on all my TVs.
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post #32 of 44 Old 05-02-2012, 01:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

believe me when I say I understand your point, but the reality is without a spectro trying to set grayscale properly is like trying to win the jackpot on a slot machine... as result, proper grayscale calibration is expensive to do correctly and might be out of reach for most TV owners not willing to spend hundreds on their own equipment/software or a pro

but those are the hard facts and no amount of wishful thinking can change them... I would also like to get the best PQ out of my TV without spending hundreds of $$$ but it's not really possible unless you have access to a spectro

Bingo . . . most do not and will not spend more just to adjust the settings on their TV. And they would ask. . . "Why should I"?

They are JUST looking for what is satisfying and acceptable to them. They are bothered more by picture artifacts, banding, clouding, and the many more obvious panel and signal defects. So all they want is white that is close to looking white and colors that are natural to them. The AVS HD709 disc and some other aids can get that for them.

Anything more. . . and they can go to the Display Cal thread and /or pay a pro. Most are happy as clams with a large TV screen and some picture tweaks. And there are many levels between that and a full calibration.
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post #33 of 44 Old 05-02-2012, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Bingo . . . most do not and will not spend more just to adjust the settings on their TV. And they would ask. . . "Why should I"?

They are JUST looking for what is satisfying and acceptable to them. They are bothered more by picture artifacts, banding, clouding, and the many more obvious panel and signal defects. So all they want is white that is close to looking white and colors that are natural to them. The AVS HD709 disc and some other aids can get that for them.

Anything more. . . and they can go to the Display Cal thread and /or pay a pro. Most are happy as clams with a large TV screen and some picture tweaks. And there are many levels between that and a full calibration.

yes there are, but as I and others have discovered in more ways than one, not all those levels are worth the time and effort (or $$$ for that matter)

those who believe otherwise simply do because they don't have a reference to compare their results/settings against... and that included me until I had the opportunity to see the moderate errors my 'full' calibration left behind
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post #34 of 44 Old 05-02-2012, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Clearly, then, you are a perfectionist and can't understand anyone who just wants a decent and satisfying picture. . . See, I get both sides also.

Also. . . the closer you keep looking the more warts you will see. Myself and the majority of others are very happy with the settings we can obtain through our own means. . . whatever they may be. Not my standards, yours, or the experts.

As an aside, I was away for a week watching other TVs off and on as I traveled. I came home and am amazed all over again at the picture quality I have on all my TVs.

I actually am a perfectionist but I can see others wanting what they might describe as a 'decent' or 'satisfying' picture. But all that is purely subjective and not AV Science so there is no way of objectifying the results you may obtain from such methods. Yes, some TVs like the LGs we have are pretty good out of the box in Expert or Cinema mode and getting the basics right like contrast, brightness, sharpness, and 1:1 pixel mapping can be a great starting point for those wanting to get the best PQ (objectively) from their TVs with a minimal financial investment (like with Disney WOW or AVS).

Trying to remove colored tints from grayscale with a grayscale ramp or steps on the screen and your eyes alone is purely subjective and not a scientific process at all. It can still be done if you can't stand the look of the default color temp preset that is closest to neutral gray/white but it is a compromise at best and could easily make the PQ worse from an objective standpoint. That is all I am saying.

I evaluate PQ objectively with measurable characteristics and so when I talk about optimizing PQ for a given budget/interest level it is based on AV science and not subjective qualities of PQ that vary depending on the viewer of the TV. It's hard to have a technical discussion about the subjective elements of PQ.
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post #35 of 44 Old 05-02-2012, 03:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I actually am a perfectionist but I can see others wanting what they might describe as a 'decent' or 'satisfying' picture. But all that is purely subjective and not AV Science so there is no way of objectifying the results you may obtain from such methods. Yes, some TVs like the LGs we have are pretty good out of the box in Expert or Cinema mode and getting the basics right like contrast, brightness, sharpness, and 1:1 pixel mapping can be a great starting point for those wanting to get the best PQ (objectively) from their TVs with a minimal financial investment (like with Disney WOW or AVS).

Trying to remove colored tints from grayscale with a grayscale ramp or steps on the screen and your eyes alone is purely subjective and not a scientific process at all. It can still be done if you can't stand the look of the default color temp preset that is closest to neutral gray/white but it is a compromise at best and could easily make the PQ worse from an objective standpoint. That is all I am saying.

I evaluate PQ objectively with measurable characteristics and so when I talk about optimizing PQ for a given budget/interest level it is based on AV science and not subjective qualities of PQ that vary depending on the viewer of the TV. It's hard to have a technical discussion about the subjective elements of PQ.

* *

Yup. . . we know all of this.Subjective. . . objective. . . etc, etc.

Surely you also realize by now you can not have a technical discussion about accurate picture quality either given that values obtained may or may not express the actual results on the screen. As you have experienced, charts and numbers do not tell all. Also, variations in choice of gamma, starting brightness and white levels etc. . . all play factors so it's pretty much the same thing. Unless a person is there in the room with the you they have no idea how acceptable, accurate, etc the picture quality is.

But never mind. .. this is more of a discussion for you know. .. the Display Cal thread.

I am not debating accuracy. . . . comparative picture quality, etc. You happen to apparently need to HAVE that last ounce of picture accuracy you deem necessary from whatever equipment you keep discovering.

And, as I said, while this is the AVS science forum. . . . many, if not most, come here for simple answers and technical help with their new TV and equipment. . . at many levels. So it is fruitless to assume ALL want the same level of results that you, I or experts do. You say you understand that others may only want a decent and satisfying picture, but I'm afraid your dialog reveals, because you have delved into this so much and it has become the obsession it can be, and you no longer really can be objective about that. To you , like many others , it is almost heresy. I go into others homes and think there TV could use even a little basic adjusts. But they are fine with the picture and for the most part it isn;t horrid or unwatchable. It's THEIR TV.

To think or say others are foolish or not discerning in what they accept in picture quality is pretty narrow.

So. . . that is that. Subjective, objective, accurate, acceptable, decent, impressive, etc. . . all terms. If people like what they see based on what they can attain themselves they are happy.

I was there at one time with several interests in detailed accuracy, performance, nuances, etc in everything from audio gear,cameras, computers, TV and associated equipment, and more. I don't feel I've compromised in the least and dare say many others are the same. I just spend more time enjoying now.
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post #36 of 44 Old 05-02-2012, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

* *

Yup. . . we know all of this.Subjective. . . objective. . . etc, etc.

Surely you also realize by now you can not have a technical discussion about accurate picture quality either given that values obtained may or may not express the actual results on the screen. As you have experienced, charts and numbers do not tell all. Also, variations in choice of gamma, starting brightness and white levels etc. . . all play factors so it's pretty much the same thing. Unless a person is there in the room with the you they have no idea how acceptable, accurate, etc the picture quality is.

But never mind. .. this is more of a discussion for you know. .. the Display Cal thread.

I am not debating accuracy. . . . comparative picture quality, etc. You happen to apparently need to HAVE that last ounce of picture accuracy you deem necessary from whatever equipment you keep discovering.

And, as I said, while this is the AVS science forum. . . . many, if not most, come here for simple answers and technical help with their new TV and equipment. . . at many levels. So it is fruitless to assume ALL want the same level of results that you, I or experts do. You say you understand that others may only want a decent and satisfying picture, but I'm afraid your dialog reveals, because you have delved into this so much and it has become the obsession it can be, and you no longer really can be objective about that. To you , like many others , it is almost heresy. I go into others homes and think there TV could use even a little basic adjusts. But they are fine with the picture and for the most part it isn;t horrid or unwatchable. It's THEIR TV.

To think or say others are foolish or not discerning in what they accept in picture quality is pretty narrow.

So. . . that is that. Subjective, objective, accurate, acceptable, decent, impressive, etc. . . all terms. If people like what they see based on what they can attain themselves they are happy.

I was there at one time with several interests in detailed accuracy, performance, nuances, etc in everything from audio gear,cameras, computers, TV and associated equipment, and more. I don't feel I've compromised in the least and dare say many others are the same. I just spend more time enjoying now.

Well, they say ignorance is bliss.

Just don't measure any of your displays with a spectro, because you'll find out just how big the gap is between your current w/b setttings and D65.

(We aren't talking about tiny differences here.)


Also, just because you don't seem to care about the technical details doesn't mean everyone else on this forum doesn't. These forums are filled with people who care about the small things. Just look at all the threads about flashlighting, clouding, banding, DSE, etc. Most people (who aren't on AVS) don't care about those things.

You seem to shy away from technical discussions (which speaks for itself as does the constant use of "").
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post #37 of 44 Old 05-02-2012, 06:22 PM
 
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On second thought . . . never mind. * *

There. . . have a few more for you.

Shy away from technical discussions? Well, all this hasn't been about pinochle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post


They are JUST looking for what is satisfying and acceptable to them. They are bothered more by picture artifacts, banding, clouding, and the many more obvious panel and signal defects. So all they want is white that is close to looking white and colors that are natural to them. The AVS HD709 disc and some other aids can get that for them.

Anything more. . . and they can go to the Display Cal thread and /or pay a pro. Most are happy as clams with a large TV screen and some picture tweaks. And there are many levels between that and a full calibration.



And as usual, this has served no purpose for this thread and the OP topic. That you go on and on also speaks for itself.

And. . . I'm leaving it here. But of course, I'm sure that also is unacceptable . . . But perhaps this has at least been funny and entertaining to the few who have read this far.
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post #38 of 44 Old 05-02-2012, 10:54 PM
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New to the forum/led tv, and wanted to get some experienced insight as to what should be considered "acceptable" lightbleed/flashlighting.

I love the Tv and pretty much dont have any other issue. Picture quality too seems to be great. I only see the lightbleed as shown in image when no input black screen or when starting some app and so on. As far as i believe i dont see any bleeding during when some video is playing.Dont have cable so for now source is blueray,local hardisk,Vudu and netflix. Have even attached some pics with video playing have look into that and please let me know if i am missing something.

Attached some pictures below with truemotion on and off(Local dimming high). Please give me your input on whether or not my TV is beyond the acceptable lightbleed, especially if you have one of these models and can compare.

I am so confused becoz the normal video is all fine and scared if return and got new piece and would then have bleeding on video playing screens too ):

Thanks.
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #39 of 44 Old 05-03-2012, 06:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by sat9090 View Post

New to the forum/led tv, and wanted to get some experienced insight as to what should be considered "acceptable" lightbleed/flashlighting.

I love the Tv and pretty much dont have any other issue. Picture quality too seems to be great. I only see the lightbleed as shown in image when no input black screen or when starting some app and so on. As far as i believe i dont see any bleeding during when some video is playing.Dont have cable so for now source is blueray,local hardisk,Vudu and netflix. Have even attached some pics with video playing have look into that and please let me know if i am missing something.

Attached some pictures below with truemotion on and off(Local dimming high). Please give me your input on whether or not my TV is beyond the acceptable lightbleed, especially if you have one of these models and can compare.

I am so confused becoz the normal video is all fine and scared if return and got new piece and would then have bleeding on video playing screens too ):

Thanks.

I would call it unacceptable. I would be disappointed too.

Unfortunately this has been typical from many makers of large LCD panels with thin bezels. A large LCD panel of 40" to 70" needs a LOT of support to maintain even pressure around the edge of the panel. Also, sometimes shipping and handling or even if the TV is stored in the wrong position in a warehouse can cause uneven pressure on the panel.

Here's what you could try to see if that's the case. Some people have loosened the screws around the edge of the back panel of the TV screen. . . or maybe just especially where the light bleed is worst in the corners. And then pull the edge back a little all the way around. Do not remove the screws. . . just loosen maybe a turn or two. Make sure you use a proper sized screw driver so as not to strip or mark the screws. After letting the TV sit for a day or two. . see if the flashlighting goes away.

Some owners have done this on their TV and after awhile, can evenly tighten the screws back up. Sometimes this fixes the issue. . . sometimes not. Otherwise, you can return it.
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post #40 of 44 Old 05-03-2012, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sat9090 View Post

New to the forum/led tv, and wanted to get some experienced insight as to what should be considered "acceptable" lightbleed/flashlighting.

I love the Tv and pretty much dont have any other issue. Picture quality too seems to be great. I only see the lightbleed as shown in image when no input black screen or when starting some app and so on. As far as i believe i dont see any bleeding during when some video is playing.Dont have cable so for now source is blueray,local hardisk,Vudu and netflix. Have even attached some pics with video playing have look into that and please let me know if i am missing something.

Attached some pictures below with truemotion on and off(Local dimming high). Please give me your input on whether or not my TV is beyond the acceptable lightbleed, especially if you have one of these models and can compare.

I am so confused becoz the normal video is all fine and scared if return and got new piece and would then have bleeding on video playing screens too ):

Thanks.

not acceptable, especially for a $1,600 TV
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post #41 of 44 Old 05-04-2012, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by surfin3591 View Post

Thanks Aaron. It actually looks better in these pictures than it does in real life

I have been reading some professional reviews, the few that I can find, and plan to try their calibration settings when I get home to see if it helps. Otherwise, I am going to go back to HHGregg and open up boxes and check them out before I go thru the hassle and get one just like this.

I could probably live with it, I just want to make sure that a "bad" lightbleed doesn't mean the TV is defective and prone to more issues down the road. These things aren't cheap...

Yes I have to say with the price you paid I would take it back even try to get money back and try different brand? Also what do you mean by opening boxes and checking? I would take it that no store or salesperson would allow that to happen and what are you looking for in doing that. I am not a xpert here but any information is helpful. This site has alot of people on it with good info..

My current tv which is 3 yrs old has light problems too but I paid alot less. I just am living to learn with it. Once it wears out will get new tv. But am starting to look for tv for mom. My or her budget is not that high. I am looking at either the eh6000 or panny 42le50.
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post #42 of 44 Old 05-04-2012, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sat9090 View Post

New to the forum/led tv, and wanted to get some experienced insight as to what should be considered "acceptable" lightbleed/flashlighting.

I love the Tv and pretty much dont have any other issue. Picture quality too seems to be great. I only see the lightbleed as shown in image when no input black screen or when starting some app and so on. As far as i believe i dont see any bleeding during when some video is playing.Dont have cable so for now source is blueray,local hardisk,Vudu and netflix. Have even attached some pics with video playing have look into that and please let me know if i am missing something.

Attached some pictures below with truemotion on and off(Local dimming high). Please give me your input on whether or not my TV is beyond the acceptable lightbleed, especially if you have one of these models and can compare.

I am so confused becoz the normal video is all fine and scared if return and got new piece and would then have bleeding on video playing screens too ):

Thanks.

If you only see when there is no input and all other aspects are great why the fuss? Enjoy your new TV and don't sweat the small stuff you will not find perfection in an imperfect technology that is changing so rapidly. I think most of us are still comparing things to tube tvs which was a technology that had been honed over many years.
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post #43 of 44 Old 09-25-2012, 09:28 AM
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You are lucky dear. In India Lg representative are acknowledging the fact that Backlight Bleeding is a huge problem & the parent company Lg Korea is forcing them to sell such faulty products in India. I have already taken refund for 55LW5700 & one replacement for 55LM7600. Even the replacement is very bad. Now I have claimed the refund again. Lg has made a joke of manufacturing ethics & is selling in world market an extremely fragile & sub-standard product. Beware & keep away.
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post #44 of 44 Old 09-26-2012, 04:58 AM
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These things aren't cheap...
Yes they are! Apparently you haven't priced sets 5-10 years ago.
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Buy a plasma...only real way to solve flashlighting/clouding
Or buy a DLP and be greener. wink.gif


Divyesh Desai;

That has to be the absolutely worst screen I have ever seen. How on earth can any company let something like that out of their plant?
"Lucky" Goldstar should go back to calling themselves Goldstar.

Life's Good my a$$.

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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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