Samsung 46ES6710 micro review - backlight bleeding - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 60 Old 06-17-2012, 01:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, too bad clouding can't be fixed by a firmware update as well.
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post #32 of 60 Old 06-17-2012, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NK0d3R View Post

525x525px-LL-b394bce5_vbattach246173.jpeg
525x525px-LL-b4df6a91_vbattach246172.jpeg
525x525px-LL-b16aedb8_vbattach246171.jpeg
525x525px-LL-b967150e_vbattach246174.jpeg

I like third image, you said it is about after 4-5 hours from turning on ?
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post #33 of 60 Old 06-18-2012, 01:31 AM - Thread Starter
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No, I believe the third one was taken just right after I turned on the TV. Clouding doesn't get bad until after one hour or so.
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post #34 of 60 Old 06-18-2012, 03:05 PM
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you mean clouding is almost gone after 1+ hour or it is getting worse (for example like on first image where it is clearly visible light areas) ?
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post #35 of 60 Old 06-19-2012, 12:14 AM - Thread Starter
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No. For the first hour (or rather half an hour) there's basically no clouding (as in the third image). Afterwards, it gets progressively worse. When I posted the images I had them named accordingly, but the file names were not kept, so I don't remember exactly which is which, but I'm pretty sure the third image is taken right after the TV was started as it shows very little clouding. And if I had to guess it would be :
- first image : after a couple of hours
- second image : after 30 minutes
- first image : just after starting the TV
- fourth image : after a couple of hours, but with a 1 second exposure (you can see the text is not as bright as in the case of the other 3).
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post #36 of 60 Old 06-19-2012, 12:58 AM
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Once again another thread about flashlighting/clouding with LED-LCD sets. There is no fix for this. Use common sense guys. Tapping and smudging the screen with your fingers won't help and I wouldn't recommend it for other members. Don't call the company, they will just give you the run around. Seriously, doesn't anybody know this?

Every single edge-lit (back-lit now) thread has numerous people complaining and trying to find a workaround for this issue. It's inherent in the sets! If you by a car to drive in mud it won't do it. You need to buy a truck. Right?

"But I paid a lot of money for this set"

Yeah? Well you didn't pay enough.

Three options for you:

Full array local dimming LED-LCD

Plasma

OLED

If not, accept the issue and move on.

Just my two cents.
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post #37 of 60 Old 06-19-2012, 07:57 AM
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it is really crap.. now I dont know what to do..

it seems every edge led tv has this issue.. so it is not up to certain tv frown.gif

Can you notice clouding when watching normal SD /hd channels from cable tv ? Or you can notice clouding all the time ?? also you said after turning tv there is basicly no clouding - you mean the first start when you unboxed tv or every time you turn it on ? Maybe there would be a firmware upgrade - maybe leds are getting brighter as tv is working on and on..

EDIT:

Have you tried to find Micro Dimming option and then to see how it looks in dark ?
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post #38 of 60 Old 06-19-2012, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I meant 'everytime I turn it on'.
90% of the time when watching what I normally watch (playing console games, watching YouTube or streaming movies from my PC), I don't notice it. It's only disturbing when watching dark scenes while shutting off every light source in the room. And, of course such scenes are, on average, 0%-5% of a movie. Unless you're watching Buried smile.gif. If you're watching a soccer game, for example, you will never notice it. I think all my pictures are taken with micro dimming active, there isn't an entry in the menu with this name. Instead there's MotionLedPlus and another one, I forgot it's name. Anyway, I had them both set to ON when taking the pictures.
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post #39 of 60 Old 06-20-2012, 02:05 AM
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To be honest, you can find a far worse tv's when searching 'lcd led tv bleeding' or 'lcd led tv clouding' on google. But if it ok to watch regular channels and only problem becomes when watching dark scenes at very dark room it is ok to me to buy edge led tv smile.gif its a matter of technology, and it is as it is for now..
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post #40 of 60 Old 06-20-2012, 03:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, if you get one, post pictures, I'm curious smile.gif
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post #41 of 60 Old 06-23-2012, 03:00 PM
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at final, I got 40es7000, it was not a big difference in price than 46es7610 but when I saw gesture and voice options in shop I couldnt resist smile.gif Also I got another remote control (with touchpad) which I paired with my cable receiver (old SD model - I was amaized when tv found codes for that model smile.gif ) and I can control my receiver for cable tv, and I can change chanel via voice (to say "chanel xx" )...

I didnt notice bleeding yestrday, but I did today a few hours after fresh start - when backlight was set to 20 (maximum) and I set it to 15. The tv was working all day (its 11pm now), I was changing picture modes, and somehow atm when I checked it was set to 12.. The bleeding is a bit less noticable than in your images (I tested on black image 1920x1080) but it is sharper smile.gif I will post images soon so you can compare..

cheers
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post #42 of 60 Old 06-25-2012, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Looking forward to seeing them. Also, a smaller screen will usually mean less chance of clouding. Not to mention that 6710 is a mid range 6 series TV, while yours is a tier higher. So, it's a higher quality TV. When I take test photos, I usually open a movie from my PC and pause it immediately. The first frames are usually black. Do that test and post results. Thanks and enjoy your new TV.
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post #43 of 60 Old 07-04-2012, 01:01 AM
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Hi,
can you please tell me the model number of the 3D glasses that you received with the 6710 TV? Thanks.
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post #44 of 60 Old 07-06-2012, 04:10 PM
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HI

I KNOW WHAT YOU´RE FEELING!!!

Recently i´ve bought a Samsung 46es6800 for 750€ in Redcoon, and i´m having problems with the clouding .... here is it:

64667218.jpg

Obviously this is not acceptable and i´m going to change it for another unit of same model hopping the next will not be so notorious.

Good luck for everyone!!

Luís
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post #45 of 60 Old 07-08-2012, 04:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

The glasses' model number is : SSG - 4100GB.

750€ is an incredible price for that model. Nice find, if you find a good unit, that's a bargain.
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post #46 of 60 Old 07-13-2012, 02:28 AM
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Hi,

Thanks a lot for your posts. It was very useful to read your story. I also have the same problem - will try to post some pictures later. I was also planning to exchange the set, but it's a lot of trouble transporting this huge set, and I might end up with one where the problem is even more visible.

Which settings did you finally go for? The ones that Samsung recommended with the black rectangle appearing, or with the backlight turned up (clouding)?

Before I had a Panasonic plasma set which I had to sell due to moving. Black scenes on a plasma were just great. I thought that LCDs have caught up with plasmas in this area and went for the Samsung model due to good picture in store and nice looks.
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post #47 of 60 Old 07-13-2012, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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The black rectangle only appears when watching content streamed from the PC (probably a bug in the TV's media player, the official answer from Samsung about this was : will be fixed in a future firmware update). Even ignoring this issue, setting the backlight to 4 from a maximum of 20, as Samsung suggested, makes the picture look like crap, even when not watching PC content, so, even without the black rectangle in the middle, and also doesn't fix much of the clouding. I keep it at 14 and it's ok for most of the viewing experience. If you want, I'll give you the full set of settings I use.
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post #48 of 60 Old 08-11-2012, 02:24 PM
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Hi guys.

As always most of the people (also myself) read this kind of threads after having problems and not before.
I had bought a Samsung Smart TV 40ES6300.

I noticed some white areas immediately after turning on, but because of watching the TV during the day it was fine. After a few days watching during the evening i watched a movie with a lot of dark scenes at it was awful. So i started to google the problem and i found out a lot of people complaining about backlight bleeding and clouding. From my point of view the clouding is the worst, with edge bleeding i can watch a movie because is uniform.

I changed the first TV (the guys from Carrefour Cluj were great), but also the second one have the same problems and maybe worst.

I can confirm the the problems don't occur always immediately after the TV is switched on. It starts to get worst as the time pass. After 2 hours it looks like this

I have returned the TV and i got the money back. Finally i think that those TV's will be sold, because not all the people are so attentive to this type of problem.

I'm a little disappointed because i really like the Smart TV's from Samsung, but the quality of the panels is not so great.

I have 3 options: buy another one and live with the problem, try to get another model in the same price range (maybe from emag because of 30 days return policy) or wait another half a year for the next generation.

I hope it helps other guys.
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post #49 of 60 Old 08-11-2012, 02:29 PM
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Wow. That's horrendous. It's hard to believe they're actually selling crap like this on a consistent basis. I had a Sony and returned it for similar problems, but it wasn't nearly as bad as yours. I don't know if it's just terrible quality control or LED technology is so questionable. Probably a combination of both.
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post #50 of 60 Old 08-11-2012, 03:01 PM
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post #51 of 60 Old 08-11-2012, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Quest View Post

Wow. That's horrendous. It's hard to believe they're actually selling crap like this on a consistent basis. I had a Sony and returned it for similar problems, but it wasn't nearly as bad as yours. I don't know if it's just terrible quality control or LED technology is so questionable. Probably a combination of both.

edge-lit LED backlights are the problem and poor quality control makes it even worse
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post #52 of 60 Old 08-12-2012, 03:16 AM
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I had UE40D6530 and panel was without any cloud even in movie mode, dark scenes. I have replaced d6530 for 40ES6710 because of 3D quality. Now, 3D is phenomenal (compared to D6530), sound is better, ES6710 can play FLAC files !!! and many other improvements.

BUT >

PQ in 2D : 6530 is much better (ultra clear panel ?)
clouding : none with 6530. 6710 has some leaks from lower corner and small cloud in center of the screen.

When looking on other posters pics, and mine too, clouding looks pretty symmetrical (Sorry Black Mamba - yours is f....g bad). When looking on mine from angle (switched off, day light) angainst some straight lines (mirror of radiator, table etc.) panel seems to be deformed right in areas, where clouding is.
I'm starting to believe, panels is not placed correctly in frame - so I will look in service manual how panel is placed and tightened inside TV's frame. I thing, when tv is running some time it's getting hot, and this makes clouding even worse, because panes cannot dilate evenly...

And , new remote make me nervous : is not sitting firmly on tabletop, so it is PITA to change volume (or use other side buttons) with one hand while remote is laying on table....

And, sorry for my poor english...

Panasonic TX-P42GT50E, Oppo 103, Schiit Vali, Denon AHD2000 + Moon Audio Blue Dragon V3, Phonak Audeo 121, Vsonic GR07, Fiio E17, Cowon S9, XLO cables :: CalMAN 5 Enthusiast,Chromapure Standard, i1D3, i1Display 2, TED's Calibration Blu Ray Disc v1.0 & v1.1
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post #53 of 60 Old 08-12-2012, 06:51 AM
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Everytime i think of abandoning plasma, you come across a thread like thisnillustrating the issues of modern lcd tvs. I get a kick out of all the paranoia about burn-in and image retention with plasmas when many lcds come out of the box with clouding that's worse than burn-in
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post #54 of 60 Old 09-19-2012, 05:16 AM
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I have the same issue with ue40es6710, when I am watching HD movies from my DLNA device if back light is between 10 and 15.
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post #55 of 60 Old 10-16-2012, 04:34 PM
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Hello all.

I've just registered to pass on my recent experience of dealing with Samsung and the backlight bleed issue. This is what they expect me to watch and accept as normal ...

ce8e9de92bf6.jpg

bd10a7664ffc.jpg

925823105e04.jpg

The bright patch on the right is always there, and even on brighter screens when watching TV, not movies, it gives a washed out appearance to colours. This doesn't look as bad as some others, but that's really not the point. This "bleed" issue is just an unacceptable issue buyers are being expected to accept as "normal".

Over the last couple of weeks I've had extensive contact with Samsungs customer services, technical dept, and what I will call their infamous "panel approval department", and I have achieved absolutely nothing.

I've emphasised the crucial point to them that a TV is primarily a visual experience, and this intrusive backlight bleed is completely ruining that. I've told them as politely as I can that I just can not watch any of my hundreds of AVI movies because of this intrusive bright band of light.

You get the picture here without me going on any more. Their final response was this, earlier today, which I've put into a "spoiler" box to shorten the post ...
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Thank you for contacting Samsung.

I am sorry to hear you are experiencing the issue of backlight bleed with your TV and can understand this situation has been extremely distressing to you and your wife.

Backlight bleeding (or leakage) is a common characteristic of LED televisions due to the nature of the technology used to project the image, therefore this is not considered a fault, and is not an issue covered by Samsung warranty.

Backlight bleed may be particularly prominent in the four corners of the screen, and / or around the borders where the screen meets the bezel, and may be particularly noticeable when viewing dark scenes or viewing in a dark environment.

Here are steps you can take to reduce the effects of backlight bleed:

- Use the remote control to enter Menu > Picture Settings > Backlight, to turn it down (the recommended setting is 4).
- Additional settings that are recommended to reduce the effect of backlight bleed, are enabling MOVIE mode and disabling GAME mode.
- You can also try adjusting the BLACK TONE, DYNAMIC CONTRAST and COLOUR TONE settings until you find settings that best suit your preferences.
- If the content is being viewed from an external device (eg; DVD or BluRay player, home theatre system) via HDMI lead, you can also adjust the HDMI BLACK LEVEL setting via the same menu.

As it stands, now that several members (including management and supervisors) of our technical support and customer care teams, an engineer and a member of our panel approval department have all either physically inspected the unit or referred to the images you have kindly submitted, there is unfortunately no more Samsung can offer to do in this case.

The displayed issue is a non-repairable issue and is not deemed a fault so we cannot replace your set; as aforementioned, backlight bleed / leakage or 'clouding' caused by this are not considered a defect and merely an artifact of the technology used to create the image on the panel.

I can only suggest contacting the retailer to see if they can offer any further help in this matter, and I apologise for any inconvenience caused in this case.

If you require any further assistance, please contact Samsung again and we will be more than happy to help.

Kind regards,

Helen
Online Support Team
SAMSUNG Customer Support Centre

What a load of horse***t.

Those recommendations made my picture horrendous. The backlight control blurb actually states that you should set it for your own preference. Isn't that what all the controls are for? I didn't think they were there to mask poor construction. But there you go.

I just wish that everyone who buys a set like this would refuse to accept what they deem as acceptable and take the damn things back. If they were all thrown back to the likes of Samsung and the other "names" in this business we would probably see an eventual improvement in the basic acceptable standard.

In my case, I just can't watch any of my avi movies, although via the USB socket they play amazingly well. Much better than my old way of converting them to DVD compliant.

I've signed up for NetFlix, and I can't watch a single movie on there without this band of brightness completely spoiling the experience.

My only recourse of action now is to go back to Curry's (UK retailer) and try to get my money back, although I'm now well over the statutory 28 day exchange period. My argument will be that this TV is simply "not fit for purpose", and I've gone down the "contact the manufacturer for a repair" road and hit a brick wall.

I've already decided to take this to trading standards if Curry's won't accept this.

500 hard earned English pounds I've handed over for something I can't watch. And the other option is to ask for an exchange which may be worse. Hell's teeth, this backlight bleed problem shouldn't be accepted by anybody.

By the way my set is a SAMSUNG UE37ES5500 37" SMART LED TV, and apart from this issue is absolutely amazing. The colours, the clarity, the "smart" features I love, and therefore feel really gutted that it's all for nothing when you can't stand to watch it.

Anyways, I hope this info will prevent you guys wasting your time with Samsung. The dealer you bought it off is your only recourse if you're not satisfied.

Dennis.
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post #56 of 60 Old 10-17-2012, 03:03 AM
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Im glad ive come accross this thread before handing over £900 for a 46es6710! although i am a bit gutted as i really liked the tv with all the features etc but this would have bugged me no end.

Ok so im put off samsung for now at least until i see what next generation of led tv's are like.

My question is does this problem affect other manufacturers? i was looking at LG are they any good? i want a new tv with similar features to the 6710 but havent got a clue what to get now and the sales people will tell me anything in comet/currys just to get a sale.
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post #57 of 60 Old 10-17-2012, 03:13 AM
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I wouldn't wait for the next generation Samsung at all. I've read that their new Micro dimming WILL NO LONGER dim the LED but rather use software-based algorithms to make blacks darker by... Literally making shades darker.

Not only will that ruin the natural state of the source but it also wouldn't do much with making mura less noticeable.
Shame.
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post #58 of 60 Old 10-17-2012, 10:45 AM
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Chris, I'm sorry if I've put you off buying a Samsung, as I think mine is nothing short of stunning, and all the on-line apps work just as they should.

I read in various places that there were problems with NetFlix, iPlayer etc, but once I plugged in the Samsung specific wireless adapter, everything worked perfectly. I can't see any adverse screen problems with fast sideways motion, the HD is amazing, the USB video playback and recording knocked my socks off, and all in all I don't think I could have done better.

The backlight leakage is the only issue, and you may pick one which is perfect. And if it isn't, then you do have 28 days or thereabouts to get an exchange or refund.

My problem was that I bought my set too soon. I wanted to be prepared for my areas digital switchover on the 26th Sept, but when I set up the TV the analogue picture was so bad, it was unwatchable. Not surprising as the digital-analogue converter was soon to be obsolete, so why should any manufacturer fit an expensive, good quality one?

So I decided to put it back in the box until the changeover. (stupid move)

So when I eventually got my set up and running the day after the switchover, it was only then that I noticed the backlight leakage. In fact I had no idea that it was leakage as I'd never heard of the phenomena, and had certainly not seen it on any of the various retailers display models.

I went straight back to Curry's, with some photos, and the manager was happy to replace it. Until he saw the date on my receipt. Through leaving it in the box, I had inadvertently strayed over their 28 day exchange period. I was at the mercy of Samsung because of my own carelessness. That of course doesn't excuse them of refusing to accept this intrusive, unwatchable effect as normal and acceptable.

My "don't waste your time with Samsung" comment was directed at their customer services if you a "backlight" issue, and not at their TV's which are probably no better or worse than other manufacturers. I believe this isn't a fault unique to Samsung.

Hope that helps.
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post #59 of 60 Old 11-28-2012, 12:42 PM
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Hi Just purchased the same TV and mine has exactly the same effect. Its not that noticeable if at all when actually watching TV even in completely black screen shots. It is however noticeable when in blue screen inbetween source switching. It also moves as you change your veiwing angle. Also when i set mine up i connected it to my internet and it said that it already has the latest firmware.
Mine cost £780 from Costco which i think is a bit of a bargain with 5 years warranty concidering that they also do the 46es8000 for nearly twice the price. I have 90 days to return the set of refund or exchange but im wondering if i could actually get anything better for the same money.
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post #60 of 60 Old 12-11-2012, 02:44 PM
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hi all.

just to add myself to this angy/disappointed list of sammy users.

After a week or two of using 46" 6710 my clouding/bleeding or whatever you call it, is starting to be very visible. almost identical as the first picture in this thread, with those round areas :-(.

can't really do anything about it cos my 7 day return policy expired and I really loose hope for getting a proper LCD after exchanging this one for 2 Philips LCDs that where faulty (1 with dead pixel, and the other one stopped working properly after 2 days of usage).

I think this will be my last expensive LCD for a long time.
this technology is obviusly c*ap and IMHO it's not worth it to buy expensive models as 6710. My old Sammy 40" A656 didn't have picture this good but it also didn't have this kind of a problem with clouding/bleeding.

shame on you samsung and all the others for creating/producing this kind of faulty products :-(.

cheers.

edit:
this is the photo I managed to create.
exp +2.0, iso 1600, shot from ~1,5m from the screen.
It's a bit bad cos I don't know how to use the camera properly LOL so If you can tell me wich exactly options to se t to get the proper photo...

PC120083.jpg

the options on TV during this shot where under PC mode (HDMI1 connected to my PC):

picture mode: standard
backlight: 10
contrast: 95
brighteness: 45
sharpness: 45
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