Ultra Thin LED Edge-Lit Panels are Fundamentally Flawed - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 05-31-2012, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Face it folks - Samsung/Toshiba/LG/Panny/Visio - well, any manufacturer of these sets is not able, with the current state of the technology and manufacturing processes, to produce one that does not have some type of anomaly that's clearly visible:
1) Flashlighting
2) Vertical or Horizontal Banding
3) DSE (dirty screen effect), noticeable as vertical noise on source that has any type of camera panning

Plus a casual read through these threads shows numerous folks on the 3rd and 4th panel, and some are even going to plasma, which has its own issues.

I'm on my 4th panel, a current LG 47" set, and it has noticeable flashlighting, banding and DSE. My 3 previous Samsung sets were far worse, if that's possible. I've decided to stick it out until OLED is available later this year.

What I don't understand are the reviewers/press that seem to gloss over these inherent problems. Yes, the ultra thin panels have excellent resolution, incredible dynamic range, spot-on color, and very good black levels. Plus, the format is sexy For static source, the picture can be mesmerizing, but once the action starts, all hell breaks out.

In order to produce these sets free of picture anomalies would probably require a retooling of the manufacturing process to far higher tolerances, which would add significant cost.

Buyer beware. And good luck.

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post #2 of 15 Old 06-03-2012, 08:59 PM
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I agree. All of them seem terrible. I also noticed that the samsung LEDs have a horrible amount of motion trailing. They drive me nuts.
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post #3 of 15 Old 06-03-2012, 09:27 PM
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The point you make is true, but even CCFL sets had similar issues when they were more prominent, and people still complain of uniformity and DSE issues with full-array backlit models. Even my 46" Full Array Sharp has banding issues. Admittedly, edge LED sets seem to suffer from these issues more often.

I'd say Samsung is the worst offender as far as uniformity goes, and LG's use of low-contrast and high black-level IPS panels does not help mask backlight issues. Sony seems to very well in this regard in their higher-end models, like the ones with Gorilla Glass - the 2011 NX720 and HX820, and the new HX850. In any case, banding, DSE, spotty uniformity -these are all inherent limitations/flaws in LCD tech. A poorly implemented edge light just helps to exacerbate it.

If you think a new tech like OLED will be issue free in its first ultra-expensive iteration later this year...I think you might be in for a surprise.

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post #4 of 15 Old 06-04-2012, 06:37 AM
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Just got the Sony 55hx750 and the only reason I noticed the uniformity issues was because I read about it online. I got some great perspective though when I walked into my son's room where we put our old rear projection TV. He was watching something in 640X480 and the side bars were so lit up it wasn't funny. I had to have noticed it when it was our main television, but over time it just stopped registering. So, after seeing that, the edge lighting uniformity issues just don't seem to be a real issue at all.
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post #5 of 15 Old 06-04-2012, 06:59 AM
 
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You might want to rethink the "super thin" panel concern. Any TV over 40" is a LOT of square inches to support , so a larger more substantial bezel is actually more likely to support it better with less chance of uniformity issues. Most folks don;t watch a TV from it's edge?


The Samsung 55EH6000 or EH5000 TVs are FULL array LED back lighted TVs and have gotten very good/mixed reviews. The key is to get any TV from a store that handles and stores them properly. Much of the flashlighting issues for instance can be attributed to the TV not being stored upright or manhandled. Anyway, the EH5000/EH6000 are pretty impressive for their price range and I was impressed in store viewing.

At least something to consider. Good, basic TVs with a potential for excellent picture quality. Buy a Blu-ray or streaming box for your web interests. Upgrade is cheaper by doing so and usually more feature rich than having apps on a TV.
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post #6 of 15 Old 06-04-2012, 08:18 AM
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I had terrible flashlighting with my LG 55 LM7600. Now I have a Sony 60 EX723 and if you really look for it you may see a smidge of light leak from the edges. But only if you are trained to look at it.

Someone casually watching a movie will NOT notice it. And clouding is almost non-existent. I will keep my Sony.
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post #7 of 15 Old 06-04-2012, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

You might want to rethink the "super thin" panel concern. Any TV over 40" is a LOT of square inches to support , so a larger more substantial bezel is actually more likely to support it better with less chance of uniformity issues. Most folks don;t watch a TV from it's edge?


The Samsung 55EH6000 or EH5000 TVs are FULL array LED back lighted TVs and have gotten very good/mixed reviews. The key is to get any TV from a store that handles and stores them properly. Much of the flashlighting issues for instance can be attributed to the TV not being stored upright or manhandled. Anyway, the EH5000/EH6000 are pretty impressive for their price range and I was impressed in store viewing.

At least something to consider. Good, basic TVs with a potential for excellent picture quality. Buy a Blu-ray or streaming box for your web interests. Upgrade is cheaper by doing so and usually more feature rich than having apps on a TV.

excellent point on possibly not needing all the Smart Apps - I just don't know where you would find a great looking TV that wasn't decked out with all that stuff.

any recs?
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post #8 of 15 Old 06-04-2012, 06:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlockhart View Post

excellent point on possibly not needing all the Smart Apps - I just don't know where you would find a great looking TV that wasn't decked out with all that stuff.

any recs?

The Samsung EH4000/EH5000/EH5300 and EH6000 are all full array ( no local dimming though) and very modest in price due to no internet features and only 2 HDMI inputs. But, otherwise offer better than average picture quality in their price range. I viewed them in several store. I actually saw the EH5000 and EH6000 models in 40"and 46" size.
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post #9 of 15 Old 06-04-2012, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

The Samsung EH4000/EH5000/EH5300 and EH6000 are all full array ( no local dimming though) and very modest in price due to no internet features and only 2 HDMI inputs. But, otherwise offer better than average picture quality in their price range. I viewed them in several store. I actually saw the EH5000 and EH6000 models in 40"and 46" size.

the 6000 series and higher have 10-pt white balance and full 3D CMS... so, if you care about calibrating the set fully, the lower models should be avoided
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post #10 of 15 Old 06-04-2012, 07:25 PM
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I just got the eh6000 and I'm loving it. Only thing I wish it had was 3d
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post #11 of 15 Old 06-04-2012, 07:26 PM
 
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Depends on a buyers budget. The EH5000 actually tested out better in picture quality from one reviewer.

They still are a good buy compared to many other TVs in the price range.
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post #12 of 15 Old 06-04-2012, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

The EH5000 actually tested out better in picture quality from one reviewer.

are we talking about a professional reviewer?
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post #13 of 15 Old 06-05-2012, 02:28 AM
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My edge-lit LED works great. It has none of the issues the OP complains about. Maybe his does but that's his experience, not the reality of a whole technology in millions of people's homes.
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post #14 of 15 Old 06-05-2012, 04:22 AM
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I also do not notice any of this on 2 new edge lit tv's. LM7600 and the ES7100, both look very good.

My Gear
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post #15 of 15 Old 06-06-2012, 03:32 PM
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I have an Samsung 40 in 81F local dimming led back-lit LCD and love it since 2006! My current champ is an 55in LG 9500 nano led local dimming LCD. I am glad I started with the Samsung and continued with the LG. I have no issues with both TV's!
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