Annoying dimming feature w/ Samsung UN55ES6500 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 06-20-2012, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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This TV has a dimming feature that is driving me nuts...it's not the ECO dimming which I have already turned off. It occurs in dynamic, standard & natural modes ( not in movie mode ), this reduces the backlighting when there is mostly black on the screen. Now I have my settings natural mode pretty much how I like it when watching TV and playing games the problem is mostly when playing video games. For instance when a game asks you to adjust the brightness until the logo is barely visible the logo will not show up at all because the dimming feature and also during games when there is a dark spot the game gets unbearably dark also because of this dimming feature ( I believe it's called CE Dimming ) which makes the game light and too dark light and too dark which is very annoying.


My question...is there anyway to get rid of this crappy feature except for the movie mode? I typically do not like movie mode for general TV viewing, sports & video games.

I love this TV other wise
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post #2 of 22 Old 06-20-2012, 10:54 AM
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turn off dynamic contrast in the picture menu
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post #3 of 22 Old 06-20-2012, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HenDokuYaku View Post

turn off dynamic contrast in the picture menu
I will try this and hopefully that will solve the issue
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post #4 of 22 Old 06-20-2012, 11:33 AM
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Maybe Sammy created this "feature" in response to OCD'er complaints of "breeding." cool.gif


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post #5 of 22 Old 06-20-2012, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Turning off the dynamic contrast is not an option in natural mode
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post #6 of 22 Old 06-20-2012, 01:27 PM
 
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Seems like a lot of TVs have this 'feature' these days. It's the one thing that really annoys me about my Sharp.
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post #7 of 22 Old 06-20-2012, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 8traxrule View Post

Seems like a lot of TVs have this 'feature' these days. It's the one thing that really annoys me about my Sharp.
It almost annoys me enough to return it and get the Panisonic Plasma...unless that one does the same annoying thing
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post #8 of 22 Old 06-20-2012, 01:50 PM
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From what I've read thats normal for the Samsungs.
Fortunately its turned off in movie mode, which is the best mode for calibration anyway.
Just use movie mode and change the settings within that mode as needed.
I have a Panasonic 50ST50 plasma and it doesn't have a feature where it dims with a nearly all black screen.
However plasmas have the opposite effect, they have to dim the picture some on a nearly all white screen, but its not very noticeable since its done very gradually.
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post #9 of 22 Old 06-20-2012, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JtoThaMtoThaP View Post

This TV has a dimming feature that is driving me nuts...it's not the ECO dimming which I have already turned off. It occurs in dynamic, standard & natural modes ( not in movie mode ), this reduces the backlighting when there is mostly black on the screen. Now I have my settings natural mode pretty much how I like it when watching TV and playing games the problem is mostly when playing video games. For instance when a game asks you to adjust the brightness until the logo is barely visible the logo will not show up at all because the dimming feature and also during games when there is a dark spot the game gets unbearably dark also because of this dimming feature ( I believe it's called CE Dimming ) which makes the game light and too dark light and too dark which is very annoying.
My question...is there anyway to get rid of this crappy feature except for the movie mode? I typically do not like movie mode for general TV viewing, sports & video games.
I love this TV other wise

Is there a shadow detail setting under advanced picture settings in Standard pic mode? if so, turning it up all the way might minimize the auto-dimming backlight (that was the case with the LN32D550 I used to own, though that model had the issue with movie mode as well). Or you can just use Movie mode.


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post #10 of 22 Old 06-20-2012, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Is there a shadow detail setting under advanced picture settings in Standard pic mode? if so, turning it up all the way might minimize the auto-dimming backlight (that was the case with the LN32D550 I used to own, though that model had the issue with movie mode as well). Or you can just use Movie mode.
I don't see that feature....I will adjust it in Movie Mode and see....I found a review on Amazon from a guy that hates that feature as much as I do and he posted some calibaration settings ( see below ) that I will try when I get home

One extremely annoying "feature" of these TVs that I've found out after purchase is the "CE Dimming" feature. This is not the "ECO Dimming" or anything you can control; It's hard-coded into the certain picture modes (Standard and Native, at least). This feature is something that will reduce the backlighting when there is mostly black on the screen. (For example, if there is 100% brightness white text on a pure black screen, it would actually display at a fraction of that intensity due to the backlight dimming). I've read that this is to reduce the appearance of light bleeding in from the edges, since it's edge-lit. This "feature" annoys me significantly, particularly because I am not allowed to control it. After searching around I found out this is called "CE Dimming" and you can hack it by going into the service menu (you can find the instructions online yourself), however messing with it apparently voids the warranty. The only picture mode I found that doesn't use this is "Movie" mode. But, movie mode looks terrible with its default settings.

After 3 days of struggle, experimentation, and research, I've found settings that actually give me a picture I can call "good" or better. I'm not an expert, but I'm technical and pretty picky. So, because I have found no calibration settings for this series of TVs yet, I'm going to provide the ones I am using, if only to prevent any of you from having to obsess over this for hours and hours. I'll offer a little bit of explanation as to why I'm setting it the way I am. I got some guidance and expertise from a known site, but as of right now they do not have professionally calibrated settings. What I did is by eye only.

Settings

Picture Mode: Movie
Backlight: 15
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 46
Sharpness: 10
Color: 50
Tint: 50/50

Dynamic Contrast: Off
Black Tone: Off
Flesh Tone: 0
RGB Off: Auto
Color Space: Auto
White Balance: 25 for all
10p White Balance (R, G, B): ON
- Interval 1: -8, -7, -7
- Interval 2: -10, -3, 2
- Interval 3: -9, -2, 6
- Interval 4: -9, -1, 8
- Interval 5: -10, 1, 10
- Interval 6: -6, 3, 10
- Interval 7: -9, 5, 10
- Interval 8: -1, 5, 8
- Interval 9: -5, 1, 6
- Interval 10: 0, 2, 0
Gamma: 0

Color Tone: Warm2
Digital Noise Filter: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
HDMI Black Level: LOW
Film Mode: Auto2
Auto Motion Plus: Clear
LED Motion Plus: On

Comments on the Settings
Movie mode is the only mode I found that doesn't use "CE Dimming", which is a huge annoyance to me. (I'd rather see edge-lighting, easily. Not sure why I can't control that, Samsung.) Backlight, brightness, and color are kind of like salt and pepper: Use to personal taste in your environment.

A note about almost all the other settings: I like an eye-popping, colorful picture as much as the next guy, but I don't like it at the expense of information loss. From my own experimentation (in Standard and Native modes), all the Dynamic Contrast and Black Tone settings did was flatten out the low end of the blacks. Dark scenes look like "paint by number" with all kinds of banding and digital multiplication/division. Lame, worthless settings if that is the effect, and a problem in general with "digital" stuff.

Standard white balance isn't fine-grained enough to make the adjustments to any of the picture modes that are necessary, in my opinion. I messed with it for a long time, so I know. smile.gif The only way to get actual, fine-grained color control is to use the 10p White Balance settings. Now, I only know this from messing around with it, but what this does is allow you to control the individual colors R, G, and B as 10 different intensities, from black to white. So, Interval 1 is the darkest reds, greens, and blues (close to black), and Interval 10 is the brightest R, G, and B, close to white. If you use "Expert Pattern 1" you can see how this works. Short summary?: Red is WAY over-represented and blue is WAY under-represented when everything is set at 0. Everything looked neon until I calibrated this, particularly the reds, and greens to some extent. (Maybe they can create a "1980's" picture mode!)

The noise filters aren't needed when you have everything calibrated correctly. They are kind of an excuse for having the eye-popping over-saturated settings that Standard and Dynamic mode come with. I'm not too sure on the Film Mode and LED Motion Plus. They didn't give me any noticible changes. The Auto Motion plus is nice, but I found that it starts getting choppy when you have other effects going on, including a lowered sharpness (I imagine it must be doing some extra calculations for that.) So, I only set it to Clear because it doesn't seem to get choppy with that set, but still provides some stability and smoothness in fast scenes.

Overall
I give the picture (once it is set correctly) a 5/5. The fact that I can't adjust certain "features", combined with the level of screwing around it requires to make the picture look good makes me lower that. Seriously Samsung... why can't there be a default mode in here that has professionally calibrated settings? You must know that the reds are way too saturated, right? You can still set it to "Standard Mode" by default to create eye-popping pictures that make people buy the TV. But with all your expertise, why not just have a mode that has all this stuff pre-calibrated and save us the time?

EDIT (2012-05-28): After further tinkering, I think I have refined settings to make the picture pop a little more without ruining the picture. Use above settings, but adjust to these:
Dynamic Contrast: LOW
Black Tone: Darker
HDMI Black Level: LOW
Color Space: Native
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post #11 of 22 Old 06-20-2012, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JtoThaMtoThaP View Post

I don't see that feature....I will adjust it in Movie Mode and see....I found a review on Amazon from a guy that hates that feature as much as I do and he posted some calibaration settings ( see below ) that I will try when I get home
One extremely annoying "feature" of these TVs that I've found out after purchase is the "CE Dimming" feature. This is not the "ECO Dimming" or anything you can control; It's hard-coded into the certain picture modes (Standard and Native, at least). This feature is something that will reduce the backlighting when there is mostly black on the screen. (For example, if there is 100% brightness white text on a pure black screen, it would actually display at a fraction of that intensity due to the backlight dimming). I've read that this is to reduce the appearance of light bleeding in from the edges, since it's edge-lit. This "feature" annoys me significantly, particularly because I am not allowed to control it. After searching around I found out this is called "CE Dimming" and you can hack it by going into the service menu (you can find the instructions online yourself), however messing with it apparently voids the warranty. The only picture mode I found that doesn't use this is "Movie" mode. But, movie mode looks terrible with its default settings.
After 3 days of struggle, experimentation, and research, I've found settings that actually give me a picture I can call "good" or better. I'm not an expert, but I'm technical and pretty picky. So, because I have found no calibration settings for this series of TVs yet, I'm going to provide the ones I am using, if only to prevent any of you from having to obsess over this for hours and hours. I'll offer a little bit of explanation as to why I'm setting it the way I am. I got some guidance and expertise from a known site, but as of right now they do not have professionally calibrated settings. What I did is by eye only.
Settings
Picture Mode: Movie
Backlight: 15
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 46
Sharpness: 10
Color: 50
Tint: 50/50
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Black Tone: Off
Flesh Tone: 0
RGB Off: Auto
Color Space: Auto
White Balance: 25 for all
10p White Balance (R, G, B): ON
- Interval 1: -8, -7, -7
- Interval 2: -10, -3, 2
- Interval 3: -9, -2, 6
- Interval 4: -9, -1, 8
- Interval 5: -10, 1, 10
- Interval 6: -6, 3, 10
- Interval 7: -9, 5, 10
- Interval 8: -1, 5, 8
- Interval 9: -5, 1, 6
- Interval 10: 0, 2, 0
Gamma: 0
Color Tone: Warm2
Digital Noise Filter: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
HDMI Black Level: LOW
Film Mode: Auto2
Auto Motion Plus: Clear
LED Motion Plus: On
Comments on the Settings
Movie mode is the only mode I found that doesn't use "CE Dimming", which is a huge annoyance to me. (I'd rather see edge-lighting, easily. Not sure why I can't control that, Samsung.) Backlight, brightness, and color are kind of like salt and pepper: Use to personal taste in your environment.
A note about almost all the other settings: I like an eye-popping, colorful picture as much as the next guy, but I don't like it at the expense of information loss. From my own experimentation (in Standard and Native modes), all the Dynamic Contrast and Black Tone settings did was flatten out the low end of the blacks. Dark scenes look like "paint by number" with all kinds of banding and digital multiplication/division. Lame, worthless settings if that is the effect, and a problem in general with "digital" stuff.
Standard white balance isn't fine-grained enough to make the adjustments to any of the picture modes that are necessary, in my opinion. I messed with it for a long time, so I know. smile.gif The only way to get actual, fine-grained color control is to use the 10p White Balance settings. Now, I only know this from messing around with it, but what this does is allow you to control the individual colors R, G, and B as 10 different intensities, from black to white. So, Interval 1 is the darkest reds, greens, and blues (close to black), and Interval 10 is the brightest R, G, and B, close to white. If you use "Expert Pattern 1" you can see how this works. Short summary?: Red is WAY over-represented and blue is WAY under-represented when everything is set at 0. Everything looked neon until I calibrated this, particularly the reds, and greens to some extent. (Maybe they can create a "1980's" picture mode!)
The noise filters aren't needed when you have everything calibrated correctly. They are kind of an excuse for having the eye-popping over-saturated settings that Standard and Dynamic mode come with. I'm not too sure on the Film Mode and LED Motion Plus. They didn't give me any noticible changes. The Auto Motion plus is nice, but I found that it starts getting choppy when you have other effects going on, including a lowered sharpness (I imagine it must be doing some extra calculations for that.) So, I only set it to Clear because it doesn't seem to get choppy with that set, but still provides some stability and smoothness in fast scenes.
Overall
I give the picture (once it is set correctly) a 5/5. The fact that I can't adjust certain "features", combined with the level of screwing around it requires to make the picture look good makes me lower that. Seriously Samsung... why can't there be a default mode in here that has professionally calibrated settings? You must know that the reds are way too saturated, right? You can still set it to "Standard Mode" by default to create eye-popping pictures that make people buy the TV. But with all your expertise, why not just have a mode that has all this stuff pre-calibrated and save us the time?
EDIT (2012-05-28): After further tinkering, I think I have refined settings to make the picture pop a little more without ruining the picture. Use above settings, but adjust to these:
Dynamic Contrast: LOW
Black Tone: Darker
HDMI Black Level: LOW
Color Space: Native

I know this isn't the calibration section of the forum and that many users here regularly share display menu settings. However, settings can vary significantly between two samples of the same make/model/screen size for various reasons I won't go into detail here and copying settings from another model will be even less reliable. It's honestly better to set what you can yourself with a basic test pattern disc like AVSHD709 or Disney WOW, etc. If you have a meter/software, then you can set the more advanced parameters as well. Anything else (like copying settings or eyeballing advanced parameters) is basically a crapshoot.

Advanced parameters are things like white balance (2-pt and 10-pt), gamma, and CMS.


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post #12 of 22 Old 06-30-2012, 06:01 AM
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So after reading all about the Sammy's, and having 2 Sammy projectors in my Theater (720p now 1080p), I settled on this UN55ES6500. After my first ED plasm back in 2002, I've owned every TV technology, but this is my first jump in LED. $1,597 out the door, with an extra pair of 3D glasses....gotta love no tax Delaware.

I don't understand what back backlighting is for....is it just another brightness control ?

As far as settings, I took the color from 50 to 30 (made the PGA AT&T look real) and sharpness from 50 to 75, and the picture is great. I change the Contrast and Brightness based on whether it's a dull movie or popping HD sporting event, or the ambeint room lighting.....albeit this has the auto brightness that I haven't getten used to in 1 day.

Let's talk 3d.
We watched Matrix, Home Alone, etc. with the glasses hitting the 2D to 3D button, it was just OK and I started getting my usually headaches with anything 3D. Anyone get these headaches ? How about the Movies that are 3D ? Where do you guys get them ? Do I need a Netflix acount to get them ? Always been a RedBox member, and felt I needed a BluRay to get true 1080p.....anything downloaded off the Internet, through PS3, or Comcast HD was no where near BluRay 1080p.


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post #13 of 22 Old 06-30-2012, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JtoThaMtoThaP View Post


Settings
Picture Mode: Movie

Color Tone: Warm2

Try experimenting with Color Tone at Warm1, Cool, etc. They may give the picture a little more pop. Warm2 tends to provide a golden tone.
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post #14 of 22 Old 06-30-2012, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasma George View Post

So after reading all about the Sammy's, and having 2 Sammy projectors in my Theater (720p now 1080p), I settled on this UN55ES6500. After my first ED plasm back in 2002, I've owned every TV technology, but this is my first jump in LED. $1,597 out the door, with an extra pair of 3D glasses....gotta love no tax Delaware.
I don't understand what back backlighting is for....is it just another brightness control ?
As far as settings, I took the color from 50 to 30 (made the PGA AT&T look real) and sharpness from 50 to 75, and the picture is great. I change the Contrast and Brightness based on whether it's a dull movie or popping HD sporting event, or the ambeint room lighting.....albeit this has the auto brightness that I haven't getten used to in 1 day.
Let's talk 3d.
We watched Matrix, Home Alone, etc. with the glasses hitting the 2D to 3D button, it was just OK and I started getting my usually headaches with anything 3D. Anyone get these headaches ? How about the Movies that are 3D ? Where do you guys get them ? Do I need a Netflix acount to get them ? Always been a RedBox member, and felt I needed a BluRay to get true 1080p.....anything downloaded off the Internet, through PS3, or Comcast HD was no where near BluRay 1080p.

The backlight setting controls the intensity of the LEDs that are providing the light for the screen.
Reduce it to as low as possible setting for your environment.

You can watch some free 3D titles (movie trailers, etc) using the Vudu 3D HD internet service, should be available in the Smart Hub apps or can be added there.
The regular DVD/Bluray rental places like Netflix don't rent 3D titles unfortunately.
The only streaming service with 3D titles I have found is Vudu.
Some cable systems have some 3D titles via on demand, my Time Warner cable has several 3D titles that are free, good for demos.
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In regard to the auto backlight dimming feature with a nearly black screen, some users of the Samsung ES models have posted that reducing the brightness setting appears to turn the feature off below a certain threshold, around 46 or so.
Might experiment with the brightness setting with known situations where the screen backlight auto dims.
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post #16 of 22 Old 06-30-2012, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joxer View Post

In regard to the auto backlight dimming feature with a nearly black screen, some users of the Samsung ES models have posted that reducing the brightness setting appears to turn the feature off below a certain threshold, around 46 or so.
Might experiment with the brightness setting with known situations where the screen backlight auto dims.

does the shadow detail fix work on these models like last year's D550 CCFL-LCDs?


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post #17 of 22 Old 07-01-2012, 06:13 AM
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What are your guys opinions on the UN55ES6100 compared to ours ? That's what I wanted, then I saw the 6500 for $100 more...3D and 480 CMR (gotta figure that's better).
PS3 Call of Duty was pretty amazing, maybe the best 3D I've seen in a home, and we're looking forward to see a real 3D movie.
What about the headaches ?
We were al getting them after 10 minutes and my kid askied to put it back to 2D.


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post #18 of 22 Old 07-01-2012, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasma George View Post

What are your guys opinions on the UN55ES6100 compared to ours ? That's what I wanted, then I saw the 6500 for $100 more...3D and 480 CMR (gotta figure that's better).
PS3 Call of Duty was pretty amazing, maybe the best 3D I've seen in a home, and we're looking forward to see a real 3D movie.
What about the headaches ?
We were al getting them after 10 minutes and my kid askied to put it back to 2D.

The Es6100 is basically the same without 3D.
For only $100, the ES6500 is a better deal in my opinion.
The higher priced sets jump by a much larger difference, $500 or so, thats too much for little things like micro-dimming in my opinion, so the ES6500 appears to be in the "Sweet Spot" with all the major features.

As far as 3D, I found after a few days of "3D viewing practice" it got more comfortable, especially trying different viewing distances.
I found moving from my normal viewing distance, a foot or two closer with 3D helped for me in easier focusing.
My eyes had to get use to changing my focus on different areas of the screen in 3D, whereas with 2D you can just relax your eyes since everything on the screen is at the same focus point.
3D can give your eye's focusing a real workout, need to practice for several days and it gets easier. smile.gif
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post #19 of 22 Old 07-13-2012, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JtoThaMtoThaP View Post

--- Snip Snip ---
Settings
Picture Mode: Movie
Backlight: 15
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 46
Sharpness: 10
Color: 50
Tint: 50/50
Dynamic Contrast: Off or Low
Black Tone: Off or Darker
Flesh Tone: 0
RGB Off: Auto
Color Space: Auto or Native
White Balance: 25 for all
10p White Balance (R, G, B): ON
- Interval 1: -8, -7, -7
- Interval 2: -10, -3, 2
- Interval 3: -9, -2, 6
- Interval 4: -9, -1, 8
- Interval 5: -10, 1, 10
- Interval 6: -6, 3, 10
- Interval 7: -9, 5, 10
- Interval 8: -1, 5, 8
- Interval 9: -5, 1, 6
- Interval 10: 0, 2, 0
Gamma: 0
Color Tone: Warm2
Digital Noise Filter: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
HDMI Black Level: LOW
Film Mode: Auto2
Auto Motion Plus: Clear
LED Motion Plus: On
Comments on the Settings
So, getting back to the annoying dimming feature...

I tried the suggested adjustments listed above, with and without the 10p White Balance (since I haven't located my calibration DVD I reset it back to default and still looks fine for now and I agree that those are just color adjustments and need to be adjusted for each individual TV). I am looking to get a brighter picture as a dim picture does not work in a brightly lit room. I changed the following but it's still not nice and bright like when you have the Picture Mode set to Standard or Dynamic:

Backlight: 20
Brightness: 55

Changing Gamma makes some impact but I don't want the picture to look like crap.

Any suggestions? I specifically have the UN55ES6550 model TV.

Thanks.
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post #20 of 22 Old 07-13-2012, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Schmuck View Post

So, getting back to the annoying dimming feature...
I tried the suggested adjustments listed above, with and without the 10p White Balance (since I haven't located my calibration DVD I reset it back to default and still looks fine for now and I agree that those are just color adjustments and need to be adjusted for each individual TV). I am looking to get a brighter picture as a dim picture does not work in a brightly lit room. I changed the following but it's still not nice and bright like when you have the Picture Mode set to Standard or Dynamic:
Backlight: 20
Brightness: 55
Changing Gamma makes some impact but I don't want the picture to look like crap.
Any suggestions? I specifically have the UN55ES6550 model TV.
Thanks.

First thing to check is whether the LED motion plus setting dims the picture significantly... if it does, turn it off.

If movie mode is too dim at max backlight and contrast settings (and you've played around with gamma, which affects the brightness of everything between black and white), you'll probably be happier with one of the other pic modes like Standard or Natural.

Also, one last thing to try with movie mode is play around with the dynamic contrast setting... it can add more 'pop' to the picture if that's what you're looking for (and is enabled by default in the other pic modes).


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post #21 of 22 Old 10-02-2012, 12:18 PM
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Hi there! I'm very interested in buying this tv, but heard about your problem. Have you solved the C.E. dimming problem? I really wanted to know, if I should purchase this tv? Thanks for your time... U38V7M
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post #22 of 22 Old 10-08-2012, 08:17 AM
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I had the same problem, change HDMI Black Level to NORMAL and do a test biggrin.gif
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