Official Vizio XVT3Dxx0CM 21:9 CinemaWide Owner's Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 272 Old 06-27-2012, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like after much delay the 58" model just launched today on Vizio.com exclusively for now. Just pulled the trigger on the only model available (XVT3D580CM) - the 58" model.

My 21:9 Concerns: SD Content
It goes without saying that this particular display targets the end-user whos main focus is watching movies/films. However, WAF dictates that TV/Broadcast content will eventually make its way onto this display and so how will that content look/fit? Im sure I'll be trading upper and lower black bars for left and right black bars which IMHO is not a big deal. However I havent been able to find any pictures of videos of 'regular' 16:9 or 4:3 content being shown on this TV so I have no idea what to expect.

Blu-Ray content(CinemaScope):
This question seems to keep coming up with 21:9 sets in that BluRay content is now almost exclusively filmed at 2.35:1 (CinemaScope). With 1080 lines including lots of black space in order to fit the content. These TV's will need to essentially zoom the picture in to eliminate the upper and lower black bars so that will break the 1:1 pixel mapping that happens on 1920x1080 displays that are displaying 1920x1080 content.

Passive3D:
This unit also appears to use a circularly polarized display- should give a brighter and flicker free 3D image. Not sure how this compares to what LG or other tv manufacturers have in place at the moment; but all my reading suggests passive 3D to be superior to active shutter 3D sets.

The waiting game begins now...
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post #2 of 272 Old 06-28-2012, 02:05 PM
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I'm anxious to hear the verdict on this tv. Hoping they release the other sizes of this line as well, in particular the bigger brother. Report as soon as you get it setup and view somethings on it. I'm particulary interested, like you, about how well it'll handle the zoom/crop of 16x9 bluray material to fill the screen.

I'd like avs to have a 21:9 section, i sometimes forget what companies are coming out with them soon, off the top of my head philips, vizio, and LG come to mind.


Thanks for jumping on that vizio, i'd like to but wanna see it in person first.

My TV! and I love it! the Vizio M3D550KD 


And yes the 3D rocks using passive glasses.

apparently a newer version of it is out though, still looks like a good value.

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post #3 of 272 Old 07-02-2012, 11:23 AM
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I've been eyeing this tv for the last 2 years at CES. Though I like the way it looks, what's more important to me is how it plays. Which leads me to my comment....

With rolling out this tv, Vizio has placed a phone number on it's site for questions and sales. I called with a simple question, "Before I hand out $2500, where can I go see this machine working, up close". The customer/sales rep relied "You can't". "OK", I thought....it's a new tv..it hasn't reached the stores yet...ok, let me ask," when do you think it will be in stores for people to see?". This guy responds, " .... That's not in our plans.....". HUH.....what... He goes on to say "...look you've seen our tvs in stores and you know we have quality sets. So this set, with these dimensions, at this cost...is a steal". LOL!!!! I'm thinking this is a joke. So, my final question to the guy was, " So Vizio's marketing plan is to sell these $2500 TVs without the customer being able to see a working version and playing around with one?"

The sales person said, "YES". I told him good luck and hung up.

I wanted to post this because I was blown away by this. This is an enthusiast tv. For this to be successful, this set has to not only work but also perform at a high standard. For the record, the cost isn't so much a factor (it would be replacing 2year old XBR, which I paid a lot more for.) and it will be a nice addition to the Sony 95ES I'll be getting in a couple of weeks. I wanted the tv for its form factor and great picture quality. It looks so cool! But not sight unseen.

I used to like the Vizio, underdog story. But if they take an terrible approach like this, I'll stick with my Sony.......Thanks!

Mike
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post #4 of 272 Old 07-02-2012, 08:02 PM
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I, too, spoke with the fine pre-sales support team at Vizio (where the "hotline" number rings). Of course, the folks there know very little technical details. However, they were able to accurately tell me this display would be released the end of June/Early July as well as wider distribution of the M3D650SV. I thought that was a coup as Vizio is NOTORIOUS for releasing their bigger, more advanced display models a year plus after announcing their existence.

And that, right there, is the crux of my purchasing decisions. The CinemaWide is totally marketed to me. I am the demographic. I, primarily, use my display to watch films. My goal (via calibration, room acoustic treatment, etc.) is to create the best and most accurate viewing environment for these films. 95% of home viewers do not care as much as I do. Okay, this may be an exaggerated number, but it's accurate enough to say this is exactly why they will not have these units in stores: they will not move in the same volume as 16:9 televisions that have their content fill the entire displayable area. This has, always, been the number one concern of the casual viewer. I can't count the number of times I insisted on watching something in "widescreen" when others complained it didn't fill their 4:3 screen. "I hate the bars," they would exclaim. Here we are again.

Thus, I understand their marketing approach. The best strategy they have is to sell direct at a "street" price (which they have done with the "early savings" they've made available this past week). Additionally, they need to get these displays in the hands of the viewing public and reviewers on media sites like this one. I think they're cognizant of these facts, and they're doing a level job. We should start seeing accurate reviews of content handling, etc. in the coming weeks.

The Achilles' Heel of the whole thing is the issue I alluded to earlier: they take far, far too long to release a product line. In what seems like a trend, they have been releasing newer generation models of existing lines even before the largest format of the previous generation has been released. In other words, the biggest, most cutting-edge display is already obsolete by the time we can purchase it. Case in-point is the M3D650SV. I knew I needed it the minute they announced this second generation Passive-3D dynamo. Of course, the 42", 47", and 55" have been readily available (55" met with limited supply as the demand was high, but it was out there). With the success of the 55" M3D550SL, the third generation Passive-3D 55" M3D550KD model is already available (and in-stock for purchase!). That's right: for a mere $50 more in cost, you get 240 Hz over the previous 120 Hz performance in the 55" format (in addition to the other generational advances and features). Unless you are a consumer that does zero research prior to purchase, that's a no-brainer on which one to buy.

Of course, this leads to the question on the 65": Just when it's starting to become available for purchase at a retail store (i.e. Costco) near you, is the 3rd Generation 65" model on it's way shortly thereafter? My guess is that's it's being held-back because it took way too long for manufacturing to ramp-up and start producing the 65" sizes. Sadly, Vizio is so far behind Samsung, Sharp, and other display manufacturers in the size department. Take a walk through your local Costco for the market pulse, and you'll see 70"-80" displays from everyone else. Vizio has yet to show-up with their two year old 65" unit.

Clearly, they know where the cash is coming from. The 55" market is very lucrative. It's just the "right" big size, the costs are cut in manufacturing, and this results in low prices for consumers. 55" is the de facto standard size. Unfortunately for CinemaWide and Cinemascope enthusiasts like us, this also means 16:9 is moving like hotcakes. Thus, there is (just about) zero demand for 2:35 to 1 ratios.

It's not Vizio that's stymying this tiny market. They should be applauded for funding development of a completely unprofitable device in our domestic market. I, for one, would buy one on the spot... if it wasn't so damned small! To put this in perspective, the 47" Sony I've been waiting to replace for over a year has just as much screen height as this 58" CinemaWide model now available. I've been waiting for 65" to be the replacement up to this point, and I'd be making a lateral move (especially as the majority of content is 16:9 today) if I were to buy this 58" model. Further, it stands to reason the 71" model would be the equivalent of a wider 55" display. Given the track record of the release of the "big brother" display in the various model lines and the apparent fact they're having issues with larger format manufacturing, this set may not even see the light of day.

To get to the most important part of this article: Where does this leave me? I mean, I could, likely, get just as much viewing real estate by purchasing the M3D650SV as the CinemaWide 71". However, I have little incentive to buy a, now, obsoleted 120 Hz display. Unfortunately, there aren't any other options with the other large format manufacturers for a passive 3D set. Keeping in-mind that very little 3D content will be displayed, this is a secondary feature, but one that I want to have in my next display purchase nonetheless. Unfortunately, this all translates to one conclusion: Vizio is alienating their high-end consumer in favor of the mid-range. I can't blame them: there's more profit there. It's not like the old days with the Pioneer Elite projection televisions where the enormous price tag could provide them more profit per unit and make it more worthwhile to be in the high-end market. These days, manufacturing costs are so much lower and, thus, pricing so competitive, that the days of this year's "high-end" models being next year's "mid-range" models is just about gone. Has anyone else noticed the fact there's more than one model released in a given year these days? The upgrades are coming quicker because of the changes in the industry as well. This really puts a crimp on us high-end consumers.

I'd love some feedback. Also, I'd love to know what it will take for Blu-ray to support a different encoded resolution for Cinemascope content. Content availability also seems to be the underlying problem with the CinemaWide televisions.
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post #5 of 272 Old 07-03-2012, 12:12 PM
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I'd venture to say that there was no decision on the part of Vizio not to display these sets at B/M retailers, more lkely a failiure to convince retailers to carry them. A quick check reveals that BB, Fry's, HH Gregg, and Sears don't carry Vizio sets at all at their B/M locations. Their primary B/M retail outlets are Costco, WalMart, Sam's Club, where their sets rightly or wrongly are perceived as bargain merchandise not on the cutting edge of technology.

The fact is that B/M retailers don't have the floorspace to devote to narrow-niche products like this because they have to cater to the crowd that's immediately going to object to a set with black bars on all content save 2:35 A/R movies. The market for these is videophile movie lovers, a small minority of purchasers. Even among those potential buyers most would object to the fact that there is no content that will fill the screen without zooming, meaning that if the material is going to be watched "pixel matched" a 58"' set will be equivalent to a 47" 16/9 model but with black bars on the side as well as top/bottom.

The likelihood of BluRay discs being released with the anamorphic encoding necessary to allow pixel matching while filling the screen on the few of these that will be sold is about nil.

Steve S.
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post #6 of 272 Old 07-05-2012, 06:06 AM
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Oh boy a lot to say..but I don't want to write a novel.....LOL

@metaldave
I agree with you on some points, but I mostly disagree with how this roll out should be viewed. I agree that this set is for a niche, more advanced, early adapter type buyer. I, too fit in this model. Where we differ is status you give Vizio. You can name all the wonderful specs in the world, Vizio is still considered the low budget choice in this market. The big boys are the big boys because they have quality and a name to rest upon.

I consider Vizio the Hyundai of the tv sector. Like Hyundai, they are trying to break into the higher-end product line of their sector. Hyundai has done a great job in not only getting the luxury specs into their product, but they got the product out for the niche market to see and drive. They knew that they needed more than good specs and an aggressive idea, to sell the product. BMW and Lexus buyers needed to see, touch and feel the product, before any consideration. This is where vizio has dropped the ball. As a niche buyer, if I can't see it, touch and see this marvelous toy, I'm not going to buy it. Now there are some that will go out without seeing it and just get one just because, but that number will be small. If this is how you are going to test the market, they are setting themselves up for failure.

@SteveS
I totally agree. I don't thing the regular Vizio sales locations will do for this device. This is where you have to align yourselves with the mid to high-end HT stores to display and sell this tv. I thought this is what they did, thus calling the toll free number to find out the location nearest me. It would have served both entities well with this arrangement.

Anyway, I guess I'll have to wait for reputable reviews of this set and a location where I can see one before I go any further

Mike
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post #7 of 272 Old 07-05-2012, 06:12 AM
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I just don't understand the logic in buying this.
You are getting a screen that is 56.7”W x 29.0”H
Why not just get a 65" that gives you a dimension of 60.9”W x 40.9”H

16:9 content & 4:3 content will both be larger on a 16:9 65"
21:9 content will be slightly larger on a 16:9 65" TV

Are black bars really that annoying?
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post #8 of 272 Old 07-08-2012, 11:05 AM
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Anyone seen a substantive review?

I read on a CNET news article that they were expecting their review sample last week.

No real reviews just that I can find and the promotional offer and free shipping ends tomorrow.

The conspiracy theory liking part me thinks this isn't just happenstance.
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post #9 of 272 Old 07-15-2012, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3zon8 View Post

Looks like after much delay the 58" model just launched today on Vizio.com exclusively for now. Just pulled the trigger on the only model available (XVT3D580CM) - the 58" model.

My 21:9 Concerns: SD Content
It goes without saying that this particular display targets the end-user whos main focus is watching movies/films. However, WAF dictates that TV/Broadcast content will eventually make its way onto this display and so how will that content look/fit? Im sure I'll be trading upper and lower black bars for left and right black bars which IMHO is not a big deal. However I havent been able to find any pictures of videos of 'regular' 16:9 or 4:3 content being shown on this TV so I have no idea what to expect.

Blu-Ray content(CinemaScope):
This question seems to keep coming up with 21:9 sets in that BluRay content is now almost exclusively filmed at 2.35:1 (CinemaScope). With 1080 lines including lots of black space in order to fit the content. These TV's will need to essentially zoom the picture in to eliminate the upper and lower black bars so that will break the 1:1 pixel mapping that happens on 1920x1080 displays that are displaying 1920x1080 content.

Passive3D:
This unit also appears to use a circularly polarized display- should give a brighter and flicker free 3D image. Not sure how this compares to what LG or other tv manufacturers have in place at the moment; but all my reading suggests passive 3D to be superior to active shutter 3D sets.

The waiting game begins now...


Any word yet r3zon8?  Would love to hear what this is supposed to be capable of.


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post #10 of 272 Old 07-16-2012, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlcohen View Post

I just don't understand the logic in buying this.
You are getting a screen that is 56.7”W x 29.0”H
Why not just get a 65" that gives you a dimension of 60.9”W x 40.9”H
16:9 content & 4:3 content will both be larger on a 16:9 65"
21:9 content will be slightly larger on a 16:9 65" TV
Are black bars really that annoying?

+1. and i don't understand the logic in spending development dollars on this. did someboody at vizio think really that this would move them upscale? did they do any focus groups on this point?

i just wish they'd have sunk this money into 55" full array, lots of zones local dimming, high 2D pq, pip/multi pip (like the original toshiba cevo tv) technologies.
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post #11 of 272 Old 07-16-2012, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by paulr1234 View Post

Anyone seen a substantive review?
I read on a CNET news article that they were expecting their review sample last week.
No real reviews just that I can find and the promotional offer and free shipping ends tomorrow.
The conspiracy theory liking part me thinks this isn't just happenstance.

Here's the cnet review. As underwhelming as I expected.

Oh well...

And this looks like it would be completely useless for those of us who are HTPC folks.
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post #12 of 272 Old 08-14-2012, 02:48 PM
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Seems available at Amazon for 2500$.
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post #13 of 272 Old 09-01-2012, 12:56 PM
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Sub two G's and free shipping for Prime members on Amazon today? Limited production run + price slashing = not selling well I suppose.
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post #14 of 272 Old 09-10-2012, 07:47 AM
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How low will it go? Pre-release estimated price was $3500, came out at $2500, now dropped to $2000. Does anyone think this will drop to $1500 to 1800-ish range? For similar price, I will jump on this over 60-incher.
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post #15 of 272 Old 09-15-2012, 09:13 AM
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Whoever is interested we just got this TV at the Costco were I work in the Miami area.
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post #16 of 272 Old 09-22-2012, 12:08 PM
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I wonder if this will be around much longer. One of the few Vizio product that I was interested in was their 50" plasma TV with HQV video processing from way back when. I was waiting for that one to come down in price and it just disappeared all of a sudden. I swear it was on the market for less than six months before being discontinued. I really hope Vizio won't pull the same stunt with Cinemawide. But then again, I have a feeling that Cinemawide is a less than successful experiment and Vizio may cut their losses short. I hope not since I was really looking forward to the 50" version.
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post #17 of 272 Old 09-23-2012, 06:54 AM
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The main problem with this TV is the black bars on the side when you watch regular 16x9 content or 1:78 aspect ratio on some movies like the Avengers for example, when I played it on this TV I got those dreaded black bars on the side bringing the screen size to 46" I was going to use the Avengers as my go to demo for this TV and now I'm just going to use battleship for this TV and the Avengers for the 70C8470U Sharp we got. mad.gif:mad:D
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post #18 of 272 Old 09-24-2012, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyxrreedy 
I'd like avs to have a 21:9 section, i sometimes forget what companies are coming out with them soon, off the top of my head philips, vizio, and LG come to mind.link

Philips stopt producing 21:9 TVs. LG announced a 21:9, should have been on the market a year ago or so smile.gif. The future of 21:9 TVs looks grim.
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post #19 of 272 Old 09-25-2012, 05:48 AM
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Seems to be a very limited market for this. Many DVD movies are being cropped to 16x9 for Joe Sixpack.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #20 of 272 Old 09-26-2012, 09:14 PM
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Does anyone know if this TV is DNLA-compliant?
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post #21 of 272 Old 10-19-2012, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Apostate View Post

Does anyone know if this TV is DNLA-compliant?

Never mind. I was puzzled since Vizio website showed their new batch of Vizio TVs as not being DLNA compliant. But it looks like that was a typo and Vizio has snce corrected it.

Anyway, where can I take a look at this TV? My local Costco doesn't have it on display. Is it only at certain Costco?
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post #22 of 272 Old 11-02-2012, 09:22 PM
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Walmart has this set for $1530 and Free Site to Store shipping.

Same as on Amazon.

CNET Review

Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Sega Genesis / Nintendo SNES / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
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post #23 of 272 Old 11-03-2012, 09:52 AM
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Walmart has this set for $1530 and Free Site to Store shipping.
Same as on Amazon.
CNET Review

I just came from Costco and they had this set for $1499. That's a huge price drop considering it's only been on the market for a short period.
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post #24 of 272 Old 11-03-2012, 10:39 AM
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Well with this set selling so poorly i guess we will never see the 70" version.
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post #25 of 272 Old 11-04-2012, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Sonyboy View Post

I just came from Costco and they had this set for $1499. That's a huge price drop considering it's only been on the market for a short period.

Which Costco if you don't mind me asking? My local one doesn't have it on display. I rather get it physically from Costco rather than via internet order... saw too many TV shows that show delivery people throwing and abusing the package.
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post #26 of 272 Old 11-04-2012, 09:00 AM
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South County location - St. Louis, Mo
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post #27 of 272 Old 11-04-2012, 02:51 PM
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South County location - St. Louis, Mo

Thanks! I am in Philly so that's a bit too far. tongue.gif A previous poster mentioned one on display in Miami and you're in St.Louis. I wonder if there is "Super" Costco like Walmart. It's too bad that we can't check the Costco inventory online like Walmart and Sam's websites.
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post #28 of 272 Old 11-15-2012, 01:23 PM
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^ I saw this tv at Costco today in Warminster, Pa and it did not look bad at all. At $1499 I was tempted to take it home and give it a whirl. TVinfo states it produces the best 3D that they have ever seen.
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post #29 of 272 Old 11-15-2012, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rupterr View Post

^ I saw this tv at Costco today in Warminster, Pa and it did not look bad at all. At $1499 I was tempted to take it home and give it a whirl. TVinfo states it produces the best 3D that they have ever seen.

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post #30 of 272 Old 11-17-2012, 02:20 PM
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This TV has been out for a while, and nobody has it yet? I've only seen a couple reviews but neither were very good. I'm curious how a laptop would display hooked up to this, or how good it will uprez 1920x800 encodes of typical 2.35 films or something similar. I'm tempted to pick one up for $1500, maybe we'll even see some black friday deals on it.
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