Searching for an amazing 60" or 65" LED TV - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 07-08-2012, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a four year old 52" LCD Toshiba that recently broke. I'm looking for a replacement and thought a 60" or 65" LED tv would be a good size for a replacement.

These are the specs I'm looking for:

1. Local dimming and back lit LED - I've read these are better than edge- lit LED tv's.

2. Matte finishing - my living room can be bright during the day and I don't want a reflective screen (this is why I want and an LED instead of a plasma).

3. Need at least 3 HDMI ports.

4. All around great, clear picture.

That's pretty much it. Don't need 3D or smart tv, even though I know they will probably come with the set anyway.

Any suggestions on specific brands and units would be greatly appreciated!

-Nick
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post #2 of 21 Old 07-08-2012, 09:29 PM
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There are exactly three available full-array LED sets available from major manufacturers. The newest is the LG LM9600, which comes in a 60" size (Not sure if the 60 is quite available yet, but the 55 is). It gets pretty lukewarm reviews, though. I'd avoid it.

So the only real contenders would be the two remaining sets:


The Sharp Elite Pro-X5FD: Available in 60" and 70" sizes. Has the deepest black level of any LED set around and the highest number of dimming clusters. Brushed aluminum frame with a glossy panel.

or

The Sony XBR-HX929: Available in 65" and a smaller 55": Has a smaller number of dimming zones than the Elite, which means more instances of blooming. More accurate color than the Elite when calibrated. Cheaper than the Elite. Beautiful monolithic design comprised of a single pane of black gorilla glass, with no separation between the bezel and screen. Note that since the screen is a glass it can get reflective, but the sony has an "OptiContrast" resin fill between the gorilla glass and the LCD panel which helps minimize glare.

They both have 4 HDMI inputs, smart TV, and active 3D. The Elite comes with two pairs of 3D glasses in the box.

If you need something with a matte finish, you'll be looking at lower end models (egde-lit).

Matte finish models that would meet your size criteria consist of:

SAMSUNG:

EH6000 (60", 65"): 120Hz, LED Backlit (no local dimming, 2 HDMI inputs, no smart TV or 3D.
ES6100 (60") 120Hz, LED edge-lit, 3HDMI, smart tv.
ES6500 (60", 65") 120hZ, edge-lit, 3 HDMI, smart tv, 3D.

Sharp [All Sharp models are edge-lit unless otherwise noted]:

LE640 (60", 70"): 120Hz, 4 HDMI, smart TV.
LE745 (60", 70", 90): 120Hz, 4 HDMI, Smart TV, 3D *90 inch model is full array backlit with "Aquomotion 240" backlight scanning.
LE845/847 (60, 70"): 240Hz, Smart TV, 3D, Quattron
LE632 (80") 120Hz, smart TV. Backlit, no local dimming.
LE844 (80") 240Hz, smart tv, 3D, Quattron, AquoMotion 480 backlight scanning. Backlit, no local dimming.

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post #3 of 21 Old 07-09-2012, 10:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks so much for the detailed response! Both of the backlit LED tv's you mentioned look gorgeous but are a bit out my price range. I would love to grab the Sony though.

With that said, are edge-lit LED tv's all that bad? The reviews I've read say that they compromise picture quality due to the location of the LED lights, however, the screens are much thinner, which can be aesthetically pleasing. However, I don't want to compromise picture quality, but can't afford a $5,000 tv.

Not to play devil's advocate, but are there any plasma tv's out there that have a matte-like finish with great picture quality? I've always read that plasma tv's have glossy screen and reflect light a lot. I've also read that some experience buzzing sounds with plasma tv's and that they can emit a good deal of heat. However, I've also read that they deliver gorgeous black levels and side viewing is much better with plasmas.

I was at a local tv store recently and the salesman whipped out the latest CNET and Consumer Reports. Of the top HDTV's currently for 2012, three were Panasonic Plasma TV's. He was driving hard to sell me one of those. I will admit the picture looked nice, but am hesitant to pull the trigger due to the aformentioned reasons I stated above.

Any additional thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!!
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post #4 of 21 Old 07-10-2012, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seinfeld1104 View Post

Thanks so much for the detailed response! Both of the backlit LED tv's you mentioned look gorgeous but are a bit out my price range. I would love to grab the Sony though.
With that said, are edge-lit LED tv's all that bad? The reviews I've read say that they compromise picture quality due to the location of the LED lights, however, the screens are much thinner, which can be aesthetically pleasing. However, I don't want to compromise picture quality, but can't afford a $5,000 tv.
Not to play devil's advocate, but are there any plasma tv's out there that have a matte-like finish with great picture quality? I've always read that plasma tv's have glossy screen and reflect light a lot. I've also read that some experience buzzing sounds with plasma tv's and that they can emit a good deal of heat. However, I've also read that they deliver gorgeous black levels and side viewing is much better with plasmas.
I was at a local tv store recently and the salesman whipped out the latest CNET and Consumer Reports. Of the top HDTV's currently for 2012, three were Panasonic Plasma TV's. He was driving hard to sell me one of those. I will admit the picture looked nice, but am hesitant to pull the trigger due to the aformentioned reasons I stated above.
Any additional thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!!

I had a similar sales experience at BB yesterday. I asked about IR on Panny Plasmas. The sales guy said he had one, but had never seen IR. I went over to the 60" GT50 on the wall and flipped it over to an unused input and showed him what IR looks like. You could clearly see the BBC logo in the bottom right corner from their video loop, even though it is only on the screen about 30% of the time, and there were some other uniformity issues which were probably IR related. If you get a plamsa, get a Samsung as they don't suffer the IR issues. Yes, blacks might not be quite as black as Panasonic, but you won't have to worry about IR and "burn-in".

http://asia.cnet.com/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test-62216457.htm

Of course, if you have a bright room, as I do, neither plasma is good for that setting.

-Ted
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post #5 of 21 Old 07-10-2012, 08:33 AM
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There is a difference between IR and burn in. If you switch it over to another blank input you will see a station logo. That is not an indicator that it is permanent. Temporary IR is a quality of all plasmas. Some may last longer than others or only be visible for a few secs. I own both so I don't really favor one over the other. Every display on the market right now has a drawback of some sort. You just have to pick which one bothers you the least. I have been through 6 or 7 tvs and one projector in the past few months trying to make myself happy and they all had an issue. I finally said screw it and stuck with the last one.

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post #6 of 21 Old 07-10-2012, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by cjsiv View Post

Every display on the market right now has a drawback of some sort. You just have to pick which one bothers you the least. I have been through 6 or 7 tvs and one projector in the past few months trying to make myself happy and they all had an issue. I finally said screw it and stuck with the last one.

Well this is certainly true. The HDTV market is very frustrating right now. Here is my damage report trying to find a new TV...

Plasma...
LG 5500/6500 - returned due to bad dithering, some slight buzzing, and annoying "panel shuts off" feature when playing dark content. Also this had pretty poor black levels for a plasma
Panasonic UT50 - returned due due to buzzing, line bleed, and a green blob in the screen when displaying white content (which was supposedly fixed for 2012, but apparently not)
Panasonic UT50 #2 - returned due to even more buzzing (louder than the first two!), line bleed, and Panasonic basically flipping me the bird when I asked them a question. This buzzing could be heard clearly during bright video content when the TV was at normal value levels.

All that buzzing is frustrating, since that type of thing is easy to fix in electronic devices if companies just spend a few $ to isolate the areas making the buzz. Its like they have a bunch of deaf workers in a loud factory claiming the TVs are OK.

Plus I had spent over $100 on new blinds and curtains for my living room to help with plasma glare. So I moved to LEDs...

LED
LG 6700 - cancelled order before it shipped due to the TVs having an "enhanced motion" (aka Soap Opera Effect) feature that could not be turned off. Also these seemed to be like playing roulette with screen uniformity issues. LG eventually released a firmware update that partially addressed the motion settings.
Samsung EH5300 - returned due to horrible motion blurring, but otherwise a decent TV. Smart TV features stunk though, 2012 Samsung models can't used the Yahoo Widgets (like for Amazon VOD) that the 2011 TVs could use.
Samsung ES6500 - returning this because of the extremely annoying "CE Dimming" that dims the screen on dark contents in most display modes. Also viewing angle on this is terrible for the price. Blacks start getting washed out if I move just 2 or 3 feet to either side, 10 feet away from the TV. Just moving back and forth on the couch (centrally locating in front of the TV) has a dramatic effect on black levels.

I also have been spending more money each time I swap TVs, plus wasted time and gas. At this point I feel I spent way to much money on that ES6500 for the problems it has, especially what it is worse then the EH5300 in some areas. And I am a bit disappointed that Samsung attempts to charge so much money for TVs that are downgrades over much cheaper TVs. At this point I would rather have the LG plasma back since it was roughly 50% the cost of the ES6500.

I do not need world beating image quality or anything like that, I just want some decent that doesn't have a super annoying problem. I had a Sharp 32 inch LCD before. It was not the greatest TV ever designed, but it didn't have any major issues.
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post #7 of 21 Old 07-10-2012, 12:34 PM
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I also have been spending more money each time I swap TVs, plus wasted time and gas. At this point I feel I spent way to much money on that ES6500 for the problems it has, especially what it is worse then the EH5300 in some areas. And I am a bit disappointed that Samsung attempts to charge so much money for TVs that are downgrades over much cheaper TVs. At this point I would rather have the LG plasma back since it was roughly 50% the cost of the ES6500.
I do not need world beating image quality or anything like that, I just want some decent that doesn't have a super annoying problem. I had a Sharp 32 inch LCD before. It was not the greatest TV ever designed, but it didn't have any major issues.


Why did you skip the Samsung plasmas E8000, E7000, E6500?
Maybe you will get lucky and not get one with a loud buzzing.

or the more expensive plan B:
Sharp Elite Pro-X5FD or the Sony XBR-HX9291
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post #8 of 21 Old 07-10-2012, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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What about the Panasonic TC-P65VT30? It got an excellent review on CNET as one of the top TV's they reviewed last year for picture quality. It also has stellar reviews on Amazon. Although it's a plasma, I hear there is an anti-reflective material put on the screen to prevent glare. Thoughts on this unit? I'm still weary on buying a plasma, but the good backlit LED's currently on the market are too expensive, and I haven't read great reviews about edge-lit LED's.
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post #9 of 21 Old 07-10-2012, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by seinfeld1104 View Post

What about the Panasonic TC-P65VT30? It got an excellent review on CNET as one of the top TV's they reviewed last year for picture quality. It also has stellar reviews on Amazon. Although it's a plasma, I hear there is an anti-reflective material put on the screen to prevent glare. Thoughts on this unit? I'm still weary on buying a plasma, but the good backlit LED's currently on the market are too expensive, and I haven't read great reviews about edge-lit LED's.

Google "vt30 image retention". You may find more result that you like, and most are from experienced plasma users. The VT30 is a 2011 model so people have a lot of experience with those now.

Also this year's ST50 models have an anti glare filter, at a lower cost to the VT30.
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Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

Why did you skip the Samsung plasmas E8000, E7000, E6500?
Maybe you will get lucky and not get one with a loud buzzing.
or the more expensive plan B:
Sharp Elite Pro-X5FD or the Sony XBR-HX9291

Samsung E6500 may be my next attempt, however I am leery about spending that much money with my fingers crossed that I won't get a buzzer. If I confidently knew I could get a E6500 without buzzing, I would jump on it. Also the E6500 is more expensive than the ES6500. My investment keeps going up and I keep getting problem TVs.
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post #10 of 21 Old 07-10-2012, 10:54 PM
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personally, I would take an ST50 over a VT30. All reviews and professional opinion seem to indicate that the 2012 ST50 has the 2011 VT30 beat in most areas and seems to suffer from fewer issues.

As far as image retention goes, I would not exactly use a Best Buy/Magnolia showroom as a good example of image retention happening under normal use. BB demo feeds have the same ~5 clips looping over and over again for twelve straight hours, likely on Vivid or some other setting with contrast and brightness pumped near max. Historically (read: pre-2012, at least) Panasonic has actually been the manufacturer of the most IR-resistant plasma. While that may have changed this year, I can tell you that I've had my VT50 for two months and I just don't see any IR that lasts more than a minute. Under the same usage as my 2010 G20, IR isn't any worse. I've also fallen asleep a few times in the middle of viewing a Blu-Ray only to wake up a few hours later with the static menu on the screen, and have gotten the IR to go away on my within two minutes just switching to regular content.

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post #11 of 21 Old 07-10-2012, 11:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Yikes, so those reviews of the vt30 with IR were not great. I'm assuming with any plasma, I would have the possibility of IR? If that's the case, it's not worth it to me to spend that much money on something that has such a huge drawback.

I guess I'm back to LED tv's. Aside from winning the lottery or getting a second job, the back-lit LED tv's are currently out of my price range. I see someone posted some Sharp and Samsung models as recommendations. What about LG or Toshiba? Samsung seems overpriced and Sharp just doesn't seem to be of the same calibur as some of the other tv manufacturers mentioned. If I have to go edge-lit, I'm fine with it. I just want a good picture with no glare. What would be the tv you would buy with just those specs?
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post #12 of 21 Old 07-10-2012, 11:18 PM
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I would avoid Toshiba. They tend to produce budget panels for the most part, decent for the price but not spectacular by any means. Their higher end stuff seems to be almost identical to higher-end LGs, though.

As far as LG goes, since they use IPS panels they'll have overall worse black level (and thus, less contrast) than non-IPS brands. While a lot of people here on AVS seem to enjoy their LG 6700/7600/8600 sets, I'm just not a fan. I think their overall image quality is lacking, and reviews from professionals seem to suggest that their 2012 lineup is a step backwards over 2011 offerings. They (along with Samsung) also seem to be one of the worst offenders as far as uniformity issues go, although edge-lit and "good uniformity: are far from synonymous.

The Sony HX850 is probably the best edge-lit set money can buy this year, but it tops out at 55 inches.

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post #13 of 21 Old 07-10-2012, 11:36 PM - Thread Starter
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What about the Sony HX729? The price is decent and it's in 65". Not many reviews on Amazon, so wasn't sure if that's a dog or not?
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post #14 of 21 Old 07-11-2012, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

The Sony HX850 is probably the best edge-lit set money can buy this year, but it tops out at 55 inches.

I agree, the HX850 is a great TV at least for an edge-lit set, but it's perhaps matched, maybe beaten by the similarly priced Panasonic 55WT50 LED. My local BB has both the 55HX850 and the 55WT50 side by side and I was more impressed by the WT50, especially viewing angles (it has an IPS panel), although I preferred the styling and colour of the HX850. Sadly, both top out at 55".
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post #15 of 21 Old 07-11-2012, 12:53 AM
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What about the Sony HX729? The price is decent and it's in 65". Not many reviews on Amazon, so wasn't sure if that's a dog or not?

I've never seen one in person, so I can't really say. The HX729 is a 2011 model, and for whatever reason online retailers seem to be unloading overstock of the 65" version for relatively cheap as of late. I remember the 55" model and thought it looked pretty good. As a caveat, when we're talking edge-lit, generally a 55" model will have better uniformity than a 65" panel. From personal observation, I can say that any 65" edge-lit set I've ever seen has looked mediocre to downright awful. On the other hand, none of them were a Sony, and Sony (and Sharp) seem to be better at getting decent uniformity on edge-lit panels. For what it's worth, the HX729 is edge-lit with pseudo-local dimming.

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post #16 of 21 Old 07-11-2012, 06:48 AM
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Yikes, so those reviews of the vt30 with IR were not great. I'm assuming with any plasma, I would have the possibility of IR? If that's the case, it's not worth it to me to spend that much money on something that has such a huge drawback.
I guess I'm back to LED tv's. Aside from winning the lottery or getting a second job, the back-lit LED tv's are currently out of my price range. I see someone posted some Sharp and Samsung models as recommendations. What about LG or Toshiba? Samsung seems overpriced and Sharp just doesn't seem to be of the same calibur as some of the other tv manufacturers mentioned. If I have to go edge-lit, I'm fine with it. I just want a good picture with no glare. What would be the tv you would buy with just those specs?

Samsung EH6000 TVs are back lit with 120Hz panels, though they only have 2 HDMI inputs.

I had a similar back lit EH5300, uniformity was good, however the 60Hz panel used by the EH5300 had bad motion blur. I sent that back and "upgraded" to the edge lit ES6500. Big mistake there. It fixed the motion blur, but almost everything else (viewing angle, uniformity, auto dimming) was worse.
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post #17 of 21 Old 07-22-2012, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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What about the Samsung ES6100? It's less than $2,000, has a matte finish, beautiful color. No local dimming or 240hz refresh rate, but seems like a quality LED.
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post #18 of 21 Old 07-22-2012, 08:28 AM
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What about the Samsung ES6100? It's less than $2,000, has a matte finish, beautiful color. No local dimming or 240hz refresh rate, but seems like a quality LED.

I haven't researched it that much, but it seems like a ES7000 or ES8000 without all the bells and whistles. Of course, it's only 120Hz and doesn't do 3D, though. It does have all the picture settings of the pricier models though (10-pt white balance and CMS). The EH series does not.
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post #19 of 21 Old 07-22-2012, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I haven't researched it that much, but it seems like a ES7000 or ES8000 without all the bells and whistles. Of course, it's only 120Hz and doesn't do 3D, though. It does have all the picture settings of the pricier models though (10-pt white balance and CMS). The EH series does not.

That is how the salesperson explained it to me. Not sure if I care about the 240hz or faster processor on the 7000 and 8000 models. And the glossy screens on the 7000 and 8000 units might not bode well for the light in my living rooms. The salesperson was saying that the matte finished screens are going away, so I'm tempted to pick this up before they are a thing of the past. However, I'm not sure if there is a better LED unit out there for the price? It just went on sale on Amazon today for $300 off...it's only $1,597.
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post #20 of 21 Old 07-23-2012, 06:55 AM
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That is how the salesperson explained it to me. Not sure if I care about the 240hz or faster processor on the 7000 and 8000 models. And the glossy screens on the 7000 and 8000 units might not bode well for the light in my living rooms. The salesperson was saying that the matte finished screens are going away, so I'm tempted to pick this up before they are a thing of the past. However, I'm not sure if there is a better LED unit out there for the price? It just went on sale on Amazon today for $300 off...it's only $1,597.


After owning a ES6500, I would definitely steer you towards the EH6000 instead. The viewing angle on the edge light Samsung ES6x00 are dreadful to the point where my couch only had one good viewing seat. And the couch is literally centered in front of the TV, 10 feet away. Also the CE Dimming is highly annoying, but when you switch modes to disable it, you may get a lot of clouding and other uniformity problems.
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post #21 of 21 Old 07-23-2012, 11:19 AM
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After owning a ES6500, I would definitely steer you towards the EH6000 instead. The viewing angle on the edge light Samsung ES6x00 are dreadful to the point where my couch only had one good viewing seat. And the couch is literally centered in front of the TV, 10 feet away. Also the CE Dimming is highly annoying, but when you switch modes to disable it, you may get a lot of clouding and other uniformity problems.

which do you currently own? many are reporting similar issues with the EH6000 as well
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