Sony XBR-HX950 Owners' Thread (XBR-55HX9​50 and XBR-65HX95​0) - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by jmjunker View Post

With the Backlight set to only 7 any blooming is extremely mild, and much much less at 3.
Also, I would like to know which 3D glasses he uses as I did not observe any crosstalk. Let me guess... not the Titanium ones?
I do not agree with off-axis color. I think Koffas said this too? It took about 40˚ for me to see a noticeable difference. Good enough for me.
By not having a Color Management System...does this mean he missed the RGB Bias and Gain Settings? rolleyes.gif
Completely agree with him on his MotionFlow observations. I also found the colors to be very close and also feel that Warm 2 was slightly too warm. That's pretty much why I'm running at Warm 1.
I'm really glad to see some reviews start to come though. Noticed that his pre cal measurements showed slightly too much red and too little blue so I'll start there with the RGB settings. biggrin.gif

A CMS allows adjustment of the red, green, and blue primaries, and ideally cyan, magenta, and yellow secondaries. It is different and entirely separate from color temperature controls. As you can see from the CalMan report linked in the article, I calibrated it.
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post #272 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by koffas View Post

You should read his reviews in the context of him preferring plasma PQ. He will always recommend a PDP over an LED-LCD if you can control the light (and I would agree there; however most people don't want to pull the shades on a nice, sunny day to do their "critical" viewing). Here are his Top 5 from Nov 2011.
http://hdguru.com/the-5-best-hdtvs/6061/
The 929 is listed, though I didn't see a full review. The Elite got 4/5 "hearts."
I thought that Mr. Merson's assesement of the horizontal off-axis behavior was that the 950's color saturation does not degrade very much a few seats to the left or right (unlike the Elite). However, blooming is more pronounced, so the Elite wins out there.

Me. Not Gary.

I also reviewed the ELITE.
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post #273 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by koffas View Post

However most people don't want to pull the shades on a nice, sunny day to do their "critical" viewing).

I'm upgrading from a XBR4, so the main dilemma is the 950 screen (never had a 929) is materially more reflective than my older matte LCD, so I now am in the lowering shades camp to watch TV.
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post #274 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GeoffreyMorrison View Post

Me. Not Gary.
I also reviewed the ELITE.

Sorry for the wrong attribution, Geoff. You can take all the credit (or blame). smile.gif
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Originally Posted by jenz View Post

I'm upgrading from a XBR4, so the main dilemma is the 950 screen (never had a 929) is materially more reflective than my older matte LCD, so I now am in the lowering shades camp to watch TV.

Yeah, it's an issue if there is a strong light source in back of your viewing position. These filters preserve contrast very well but always at the expense of strong specular reflections.
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post #275 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffreyMorrison View Post

A CMS allows adjustment of the red, green, and blue primaries, and ideally cyan, magenta, and yellow secondaries. It is different and entirely separate from color temperature controls. As you can see from the CalMan report linked in the article, I calibrated it.

Thank you for clarifying. Makes sense.

Could you let us know what RGB values you used since they weren't shown in the linked report.

I'm getting nice blacks with and a picture that subjectively has a lot of contrast with Backlight at 1 and MotionFlow at Clear. Would <3 to know what the panel contrast is there.
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post #276 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 12:11 PM
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It's always best to evaluate in your own viewing environment, and with enough time to view enough varying content. Buying anything expensive should be done with care, and if you have the reassurance of a return policy in case you are not satisfied then you have nothing to lose. wink.gif

Perceptually, most people in stores are attracted to the brightest, coldest picture, even if it is something that you would never be able to live with. Now, when I switch between my Custom and Standard profiles both are pleasant and relatively similar as they were both calibrated by me. But, when I pass the default Vivid settings I think I slightly burn my retinas and start to have a seizure. I need to crank that profile all sorts of down... eek.gif
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Originally Posted by Used2be2 View Post

I hope I'm not being silly by buying the 65"HX950 without seeing it perform. The HX929 in the 46" size I've seen in stores looks acceptable to me, so I took the plunge. I've been happy with a Pioneer 5060HD plasma for seven years, but decided I wanted something larger and a little sharper. The Pioneer is 720P and the picture is good, if not real sharp. I don't care that much about the 3D, but think it will be fun for certain movies, so that was part of the draw. I'm buying from ABC Warehouse which is in Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana. They say they will have it in stock on Oct 1st, but I'm skeptical since Sony is saying they are shipping on October 26th from their online site. After reading many of the posts in this thread, you guys seem much more technically oriented than I. Which is probably good so that you have the skill and knowledge to extract the best picture out of the screen. I just fiddle with some of the basic settings until it looks decent to my eye and leave it at that. Maybe I'll take a hint from some of the informative posts and try a little harder, thanks.
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post #277 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jmjunker View Post

Thank you for clarifying. Makes sense.
Could you let us know what RGB values you used since they weren't shown in the linked report.
I'm getting nice blacks with and a picture that subjectively has a lot of contrast with Backlight at 1 and MotionFlow at Clear. Would <3 to know what the panel contrast is there.

I don't like sharing my RGB settings:
Why I Hate Sharing My Picture Settings

Changing the backlight doesn't really change the contrast. It just lowers the overall light output. Check this out:
Contrast ratio (or how every TV manufacturer lies to you)

So if you've turned off the LED Dynamic Control, you're getting something close to 1,498:1. I measured about a 10% loss in light output in the Clear MotionFlow setting. The ClearPlus setting dropped it by about 30%.

With the LED DC in the Low mode, the contrast is around 8,565:1, which is about double what the better non-local dimming LED LCDs are capable of.
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post #278 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffreyMorrison View Post

I don't like sharing my RGB settings:
Why I Hate Sharing My Picture Settings
Changing the backlight doesn't really change the contrast. It just lowers the overall light output. Check this out:
Contrast ratio (or how every TV manufacturer lies to you)
So if you've turned off the LED Dynamic Control, you're getting something close to 1,498:1. I measured about a 10% loss in light output in the Clear MotionFlow setting. The ClearPlus setting dropped it by about 30%.
With the LED DC in the Low mode, the contrast is around 8,565:1, which is about double what the better non-local dimming LED LCDs are capable of.

Would there ever be a time when you would want the Led dc off ? Also did you measure the black level at all? I still think Sony needed to increase the zone count on this TV to get it into the higher category. I'm praying that the 65 incher increased the zone count from last year.
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post #279 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by bzal1122 View Post

Would there ever be a time when you would want the Led dc off ? Also did you measure the black level at all? I still think Sony needed to increase the zone count on this TV to get it into the higher category. I'm praying that the 65 incher increased the zone count from last year.

Personally, I'd never turn the LED DC off. The panel's native contrast ratio is pretty mediocre. The settings I mention in the article got the TV looking really good, with minimal "halos." In the Standard mode, though, it was too much.

I mention a few of the black level measurements in the article (measuring black level is part of measuring contrast ratio). Is there a specific mode you're curious about?

I 100% agree with you. This TV desperately needs more zones. I don't know how many the ELITE has, but it has to be significantly more.
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post #280 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by GeoffreyMorrison View Post

The panel's native contrast ratio is pretty mediocre. The settings I mention in the article got the TV looking really good, with minimal "halos."
This TV desperately needs more zones. I don't know how many the ELITE has, but it has to be significantly more.

Apart from the Elite, do you know of another LCD TV which has a better panel's native contrast ratio than the XBR-55HX950?
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post #281 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mike50 View Post

Apart from the Elite, do you know of another LCD TV which has a better panel's native contrast ratio than the XBR-55HX950?

Several. Of the ones I've recently reviewed:
Samsung 55EH6000: 4203:1
LG 55LM7600: 4270:1
Sharp 80LE844: 2666:1

The Toshiba 47L7200 has about the same native contrast.
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post #282 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffreyMorrison View Post

Several. Of the ones I've recently reviewed:
Samsung 55EH6000: 4203:1
LG 55LM7600: 4270:1
Sharp 80LE844: 2666:1
The Toshiba 47L7200 has about the same native contrast.

I can only comment on the Samsung EH6000 because I had it for about a month. Just because it has a better native contrast doesn't mean much. There are more contributing factors to a good/great tv than just black-levels and native contrast. The PQ was not that good on the EH6000 IMO. Colors were not as accurate, especially yellows and reds. The Samsung LNxxD630 (SQ01 Panel) has better viewing angles, better PQ, and better blacks IMO than the EH6000 and the 46" D630 can be had for $700. Overall, the D630 blows the EH6000 away and I'm sure the native contrast isn't as good.
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post #283 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 08:37 PM
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Man, with all this bashing I feel like I should just reject my order when my TV comes in Tuesday and just buy a 46-inch HX929.
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post #284 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by vaxick View Post

Man, with all this bashing I feel like I should just reject my order when my TV comes in Tuesday and just buy a 46-inch HX929.

It's starting to look like if you just peel off the HX950 sticker you will have yourself a HX929 just in a 55 inch. On a serious note, Sony absolutely had to increase the zones from last year if they wanted to call this the flagship TV for 2012. I know everyone is tired of hearing about the damn zones, but it is the 1 major hurdle holding this TV back from being mentioned with the other top players this year. Yes, color may be good, and yes picture quality may be good as well, but those same qualities can also be said for the lesser priced HX850. If you seriously think that black levels and contrast don't mean anything then what would be the point of these high priced sets. The flagship models exist solely for the reason of adding incredible black level, as well as a good contrast ratio in addition to the other attributes which have already been proven to be very good. To this point the Sony HX950 is a disappointment to me, and I can only hope , as I stated earlier, that the 65 inch has a zone count that is of a significant greater value than the previous years 929.
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post #285 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 08:50 PM
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I think really the only issue is how much does the halo effect bother you. Judging a local-dimming set with it's primary feature defeated is absurd. rolleyes.gif

It is what it is. Display technology is always advancing and there is no perfect solution. Just like a significant other, find one that has faults you can live with. Except in this case you can usually ship them off if there is a problem. wink.gif

Not sure what kind of expectations some of you guys have, but I'd prefer this set over any Samsung, or a Panasonic VT.

Should hold me over just fine until 4k. cool.gif
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post #286 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jmjunker View Post

I think really the only issue is how much does the halo effect bother you. Judging a local-dimming set with it's primary feature defeated is absurd. rolleyes.gif
It is what is is. Display technology is always advancing and there is no perfect solution. Just like a significant other, find one that has faults you can live with. Except in this case you can usually ship them off if there is a problem. wink.gif
Not sure what kind of expectations some of you guys have, but I'd prefer this set over any Samsung, or a Panasonic VT.
Should hold me over just fine until 4k. cool.gif

At its price point many of us were hoping for at the very least an Elite contender. The contrast ratio on this set is just awful, if What Geoff has reported is correct.
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post #287 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 08:56 PM
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Great. So you found out how terrible this truly is. rolleyes.gif So what is plan B, an Elite?
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post #288 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 09:30 PM
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Nope... It's wait some more. I will not buy an Elite unless I know for sure another version isn't coming out, and I will not buy a 950 unless it can prove itself better than a 929. I am sure a lot of people will be happy with this set, but I will wait it out a little longer
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post #289 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by bzal1122 View Post

At its price point many of us were hoping for at the very least an Elite contender. The contrast ratio on this set is just awful, if What Geoff has reported is correct.

If? WTF?

The native contrast isn't great, but judging it solely on that isn't entirely fair. The local dimming does help the apparent contrast, so what you're seeing on screen is definitely a LOT more than 1,498:1. Personally I'd take the VT50, but it seems most of you have disregarded that as an option. If the ELITE is out of your price range, the HX950 is a great looking TV. As someone else said, no TV is perfect.

Well, except for OLED. (just kidding... sort of)
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post #290 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I know CR's can be tricky to compare (different meters, methodology to use with local dimmers), but I can't reconcile the contrast ratios for the HX850 with Sony's flagship XBR line (929/950).

Below are the CR's I googled for the three settings for the local dimming control...

Home Theater Mag

HX850
standard: 29,500:1
low: 10,467:1
off: 2,633:1
http://www.hometheater.com/content/sony-kdl-55hx850-3d-lcd-hdtv-ht-labs-measures

HX929
standard: n/a
low: 14,800:1
off: 1429:1
http://www.hometheater.com/content/sony-bravia-xbr-55hx929-3d-led-lcd-hdtv-ht-labs-measures


HDGuru

HX950
standard: n/a
low: 8,487:1
off: 1,498:1
http://hdguru.com/sony-xbr55hx950-3d-led-lcd-hdtv-first-review/8724/

I'd be very surprised if Sony is using panels with better native contrast (local dimming off) in the HX850 series.
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post #291 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koffas View Post

I know CR's can be tricky to compare (different meters, methodology to use with local dimmers), but I can't reconcile the contrast ratios for the HX850 with Sony's flagship XBR line (929/950).
Below are the CR's I googled for the three settings for the local dimming control...
Home Theater Mag
HX850
standard: 29,500:1
low: 10,467:1
off: 2,633:1
http://www.hometheater.com/content/sony-kdl-55hx850-3d-lcd-hdtv-ht-labs-measures
HX929
standard: n/a
low: 14,800:1
off: 1429:1
http://www.hometheater.com/content/sony-bravia-xbr-55hx929-3d-led-lcd-hdtv-ht-labs-measures
HDGuru
HX950
standard: n/a
low: 8,487:1
off: 1,498:1
http://hdguru.com/sony-xbr55hx950-3d-led-lcd-hdtv-first-review/8724/
I'd be very surprised if Sony is using panels with better native contrast (local dimming off) in the HX850 series.

Generally, you're absolutely right. It's impossible to compare across different publications with different methodologies and equipment.

However, I believe Tom uses the same meter I do, and we both started doing contrast ratio measurements while I was at Home Theater (he was at Ultimate AV at the time). There was a lot of discussion about the correct methodology. I trust his numbers (and from me, that's saying a lot).

How interesting that Tom got almost exactly the same contrast ratio as I did with HX950? The difference is easily within the measurement error of the equipment, and panel-to-panel variance.
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post #292 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 10:52 PM
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It's honestly a bit deceiving and a sting to consumers that Sony is willing to release a new model with a pretentious tag long stating "The Best of the Best" when it's the HX929 in disguise. This TV is competing in the premium market amongst people that are willing to invest a large sum of money into their televisions. Considering people in this price range are enthusiasts, it's safe to assume many of them keep up on the details of the TV they are drooling over.
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post #293 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 11:34 PM
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Hi fellow Canadians,

I don't recall the Canadian pricing of the 55" and 65" has been posted yet on this thread.

I have asked an associate in the Sony Store to look up the pricing for me today in their systems.

XBR-55HX9​50: $3,599 (CAD)

XBR-65HX95​0: $6,499 (CAD)

Both will be available in Canada in November.

Please keep in mind that the pricing can change from pre-launch to the official launch date. Please feel free to post any updated information as you come across them. Thanks!
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post #294 of 4538 Old 09-29-2012, 11:51 PM
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its like were all trying to justify why the 950 is 3000. someone once said if something looks to good to be true.....

most of this tech talk is over my head, however im thankful this guy took the time to get into the real issues with the 950. im not sure why he talked up eh6000 because i had that tv for a few weeks and the picture was a mess. its a full array lit samsung for 1000 with no local dim and a picture that looks like crap.
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post #295 of 4538 Old 09-30-2012, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by hellotv View Post

its like were all trying to justify why the 950 is 3000. someone once said if something looks to good to be true.....
most of this tech talk is over my head, however im thankful this guy took the time to get into the real issues with the 950. im not sure why he talked up eh6000 because i had that tv for a few weeks and the picture was a mess. its a full array lit samsung for 1000 with no local dim and a picture that looks like crap.

He only talked up the contrast ratio as being better than the 950. The Samsung is also priced accordingly to how it performs, the Sony is not because it had flaws last year and they ignored them.
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post #296 of 4538 Old 09-30-2012, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by GeoffreyMorrison View Post

If? WTF?
The native contrast isn't great, but judging it solely on that isn't entirely fair. The local dimming does help the apparent contrast, so what you're seeing on screen is definitely a LOT more than 1,498:1. Personally I'd take the VT50, but it seems most of you have disregarded that as an option. If the ELITE is out of your price range, the HX950 is a great looking TV. As someone else said, no TV is perfect.
Well, except for OLED. (just kidding... sort of)

I didn't quite mean it that way. anyway, I love the VT50, but I'm done with the heat output of Plasma, and I'm not going to pay 3500 dollars for a TV that I have to baby for several months and God forbid I watch the same channel for too long as it will get IR. I do have the money to buy an Elite but....... It has color issues and I need it to at least have some better off axis viewing, only two seats off center though.
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post #297 of 4538 Old 09-30-2012, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bzal1122 View Post

It's starting to look like if you just peel off the HX950 sticker you will have yourself a HX929 just in a 55 inch. On a serious note, Sony absolutely had to increase the zones from last year if they wanted to call this the flagship TV for 2012. I know everyone is tired of hearing about the damn zones, but it is the 1 major hurdle holding this TV back from being mentioned with the other top players this year. Yes, color may be good, and yes picture quality may be good as well, but those same qualities can also be said for the lesser priced HX850. If you seriously think that black levels and contrast don't mean anything then what would be the point of these high priced sets. The flagship models exist solely for the reason of adding incredible black level, as well as a good contrast ratio in addition to the other attributes which have already been proven to be very good. To this point the Sony HX950 is a disappointment to me, and I can only hope , as I stated earlier, that the 65 inch has a zone count that is of a significant greater value than the previous years 929.

since the 55" 950 appears to have the same zone count as last years 929. i would bet the 65" will have the same as last years as well. folks these are the exact same panels as the 929 simple as that. only thing were seeing is perhaps improved 3d, and some cosmetic differences that is it. good job Sony...

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post #298 of 4538 Old 09-30-2012, 08:18 AM
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Hello, I am going from a five year old KDL-46XBR4 to the 55HX950. It's arriving the middle of this week.

The PQ on the xbr4 is great and I always get very positive comments about it. So I am really hoping that I've made the right call on getting the 950.

I've ordered the Disney WOW blue-ray, so my plan for this week is to use jmjunker's settings as a start (thanks for posting) and when the disks arrive begin tweaking it.

I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on what I might expect as far as PQ between my old 46XBR4 and the new 55HX950. I really haven't been following developments in TV technology over the last few years, other than reading how 3D is over rated.

Also, is it a two person job to get it out of the box and on its stand? I need to decide if I want spend a few extra bucks to have the dealer's delivery crew set up and put it on the table.

Thanks. smile.gif
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post #299 of 4538 Old 09-30-2012, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by PacGuy83 View Post

Hello, I am going from a five year old KDL-46XBR4 to the 55HX950. It's arriving the middle of this week.
The PQ on the xbr4 is great and I always get very positive comments about it. So I am really hoping that I've made the right call on getting the 950.
I've ordered the Disney WOW blue-ray, so my plan for this week is to use jmjunker's settings as a start (thanks for posting) and when the disks arrive begin tweaking it.
I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on what I might expect as far as PQ between my old 46XBR4 and the new 55HX950. I really haven't been following developments in TV technology over the last few years, other than reading how 3D is over rated.
Also, is it a two person job to get it out of the box and on its stand? I need to decide if I want spend a few extra bucks to have the dealer's delivery crew set up and put it on the table.
Thanks. smile.gif
It's a 2 person deal not because of weight as much as damage-free handling I did my 929 twice by myself, 1st for supplied base and then again to the Monolithic base.Needs steady hands to maneuver on to base, without mishaps.And mine is a 46" mdl. The 55" would be that much more awkward.

*Sony XBR 929 & Sony XBR8-Denon 3311CI-Mirage V2 FS speakers w/S10 Sub-Oppo 93-Darbee DVP5000-Harmony 1100
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post #300 of 4538 Old 09-30-2012, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by bzal1122 View Post

At its price point many of us were hoping for at the very least an Elite contender. The contrast ratio on this set is just awful, if What Geoff has reported is correct.

So you wanted a similar type LCD (led) set to be as good as one that typically costs $1500.00 more and is only 5" bigger? The 950 appears to be a very good set with some slight improvements over the 929 and coming in at the same price as where the 929 is now and could possibly drop down in the mid 2 grand range around the holidays. That doesn't sound too bad to me. When a cost is considerably less then one should expect expect some compromises as well. Like the sayings go 'you get what you pay for' and 'no free lunches'. smile.gif
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