Sony XBR-HX950 Owners' Thread (XBR-55HX9​50 and XBR-65HX95​0) - Page 148 - AVS Forum
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post #4411 of 4544 Old 01-18-2014, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Tusk View Post

My 55HX950 started doing the exact same thing today that yours did. Have you gotten the X850A yet? What do you think? I'm about to start the process of talking with customer service.
I hope we're just a few unlucky guys who have this problem, and I hope it is not an early indication of a failure trend. The HX950 was too good of a TV to develop a fatal flaw this soon. Yes, I did receive my X850A as a warranty replacement for my 55" HX950 that developed a bad row of pixels. The X850A is a refurb. Here are some HX950 vs X850A comparisons.

The X850A is edge lit, and does not have full array local dimming. I miss having those insanely great black levels over the different zones of the screen; I could live with a little bit of blooming around the zones that weren't turned off 100%. The X850A has great black levels when the entire screen is 100% black, but on a screen that is mostly black (such as ATSC shows that fade to black but still have the CBS logo in the lower right of the screen), we're stuck with LCD's big limitation: blacks that are dark gray with a little bit of clouding.

In normal to bright scenes, both the HX950 and X850A are fabulous. Driving 4K from my Haswell HTPC (only 24 and 30 Hz supported with HDMI 1.4), the X850A looks amazing. The detail of surfing to webpages and trying to read text is an eye chart from my normal seating distance, but looking closer, everything is really crisp and detailed. One thing that mildly annoyed me about the HX950 is that I could see some of the screen door effect, especially horizontal lines of SDE in areas of solid blue. Everything is so fine and crisp at 4K that I don't see any screen door effect at all on the X850A.

On the X850A, the brightness is a little bit off along the top/bottom/left/right edges. It isn't too bad, but it is noticeable.

I prefer the anti-glare coating on the X850A vs. the high gloss of the HX950. However, the monolith design of the HX950 was a fantastic piece of art. The X850A has a picture frame of 4 separate pieces of slightly curved glossy black along the top/bottom/left/right, and obvious diagonal creases in the corners where the pieces meet.

The 3D is comparable between the 2, but you need different 3D glasses because these ones don't operate with the IR blaster method. It came with 4 sets of 3D glasses. Somehow they get paired with the TV. When I turned on one of the 3D glasses, the TV automatically said that it paired with them. They are active shutter glasses similar to the HX950. They aren't rechargeable, but take a CR2025 battery.

I'm mostly happy with the X850A as a replacement. Having the bad row of pixels on my HX950 was getting really annoying. However, I think I'd be happier with an exact model replacement if I knew it would last for several years. After having an XBR8 and HX950, I've been spoiled with (IMHO) the best compromise of fabulous 2D quality with insanely good blacks but a little bit of blooming. 4K is nice; depending on your seating distance, you don't realize how low res 1080p is until you're looking at 4K. But now I'm living in an edge lit world with dark grayish black levels.

Bazinga!

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post #4412 of 4544 Old 01-21-2014, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave A. View Post


If it's difficult to see most of the time, I wouldn't bother with returning it. To be honest, the band on my TV was bothersome for a few days after I first noticed it, but it has been a total non-issue after I stopped staring at that section of the screen all the time. If you can’t enjoy the TV anymore because of the bands you should definitely call Sony and see what they say. Like Rizzo said, be polite but firm and see what they can do for you. My dealings with Sony customer service on another issue went very well after I took his advice.

 

But this vertical lines will decrease with the time? Like, will it be more faint? How many vertical lines has your tv?

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post #4413 of 4544 Old 01-22-2014, 05:49 PM
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But this vertical lines will decrease with the time? Like, will it be more faint? How many vertical lines has your tv?
Over time you'll notice it less because you'll get used to it. But also, you can change the settings a bit here and there and lessen the effect.
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post #4414 of 4544 Old 01-23-2014, 04:01 AM
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http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57617495-1/led-local-dimming-explained/


Sony's expensive, high-performance XBR-HX950 from 2012 was the last TV CNET reviewed with full-array local dimming. More are coming out this year.
One of the top buzzterms in LED LCD marketing is "local dimming." Ostensibly, local dimming can dim the area of the screen that needs it, while keeping the bright parts of the screen bright. This technology can really increase the contrast ratio to make a better image.
But not all local dimming works the same, and certain types of local dimming work better than others.
Here's what to look for.
This article is a distilling/expansion of a sliver of the longer LED LCD backlights explained. Check out that article for even more info, or if you're really only interested in local dimming... read on!
What it is
LED LCDs don't have the contrast ratio potential of plasma and OLED. As such, their images don't have quite the depth and three-dimensionality as the other technologies.
Local dimming was developed to improve this aspect of LED LCD performance. By dimming the parts of the screen that should be dark (a character in shadow, perhaps), and keeping bright the parts of the screen that should be bright (a nearby well-lit window, say), you can improve the apparent contrast ratio. As LCD technology has advanced, local dimming has as well. As the LCD industry moved towards the cheaper, thinner edge-lighting methods, local dimming was adapted to work with these TVs too.
(Credit: Geoffrey Morrison/CNET)
Full-array local dimming
This is the full monty. The name refers to an array of individual LEDs behind the LCD panel, all pointing out through the screen toward your eyeballs. A mock-up example is shown at right, if the front LCD layer was removed and the LED backlight exposed.
While individual control of all these LEDs would be ideal (though rarely implemented), the most common method is a set number of "zones." Depending on the TV, these could number in the dozens or more. Vizio's high-end Reference series has 384 zones, the most we've ever heard of. Unfortunately, most LED TV makers don't disclose the number.
Each zone is responsible for a certain area of the screen. Objects smaller than the zone (stars in the night sky, for example), don't benefit from the local dimming, and can look muted as a result. Also, if a zone is lit, and an adjacent zone isn't lit, you could see a halo/bloom as that part of the screen becomes brighter than its neighboring zone. This artifact is commonly known as "blooming."
Related stories
LED LCD vs. plasma vs. LCD
Why all HDMI cables are the same
Active 3D vs. passive 3D: What's better?
How big a TV should I buy?
Why Ultra HD 4K TVs are still stupid
What is refresh rate?
Audiophile Odyssey: Behind the Scenes at B&W, Meridian, and Abbey Road Studios
At its best, for example, in Sharp's Elite or Sony's XBR-HX950, full-array backlit local dimming produces the best images you can get with LCD. It's also expensive and rare.
Going forward, technologies like Dolby Vision and other high dynamic range methods, will largely rely on full array local dimming to get the best out of an image.
The downside is size and cost. The LEDs have to be set back from the screen a little (the farther away, the fewer you need to cover the same area), so there's additional depth compared to the edge-lit models.
That's also a lot of LEDs back there, and those cost money. Last year there weren't any TVs with full-array local dimming beyond the $40,000 Samsung S9. In 2014 more models are coming out for prices in the four, rather than five, figures. The cheapest we know of so far will be Vizio's P series, which features a 50-inch size for $1000.
Direct local dimming
An offshoot of full-array, direct local dimming simply means fewer LEDs. They're still arranged behind the screen, but there are fewer of them, and not as many dimmable zones.
Vizio is the first, and still the only, TV maker to market direct local dimming as distinct from full-array. Select sizes of its 2013 and 2014 E series TVs include the feature, and in CNET's reviews of the 42-inch and 50-inch models, it made a real improvement in picture quality. As you'd expect, the dimming is less precise and evinces more blooming than full array, but it's still better than no local dimming in our book. We're looking forward to 2014's iterations to see whether the company can improve its dimming -- or if other makers of direct-backlit LED TVs adopt it.
(Credit: Geoffrey Morrison/CNET)
Edge-lit local dimming
The most common variety is local dimming on edge-lit LED LCDs. With edge-lit LCDs, all the LEDs are along the edge of the TV, facing the center of the screen.
Local dimming, in this case, becomes a little looser of a term. Worst-case, "local" could be nearly invisible dimming, or dimming huge swaths of the screen at a time, offering little benefit, or, in some cases, a worse picture. Best-case, for example, the Samsung F8000/F9000 and the Sony KDL-55W900A, there's a noticeable improvement, though not as much as with full array.
Depending on where the LEDs are (along all four sides of the screen, just the right and left, just the top and bottom, or just the bottom or the top), edge-lit local dimming can have widely different performance.
For the full story on all the different methods, plus illustrations of what each can look like in practice, check out LED LCD backlights explained.
Global dimming
One last trick isn't really "local" dimming as much as it's just "dimming," or maybe "global dimming." The entire image will get darker with dark scenes, and stay bright with bright scenes. On many models when given a full black image (like the fade-out at the end of a movie, but before the credits start) the LEDs will shut off completely, making it seem like the TV has a really good black level.
This is fake, of course, as you can't see anything else on the screen. If anything should appear, the LEDs kick back on, and the black level jumps up, revealing the TV's true contrast ratio. There are some tiny energy-saving benefits to turning off the LEDs, but visually this is distracting. It's also really common among projectors (where an auto-iris tracks the incoming signal).
Another variation of the theme senses the average brightness of the scene and, during darker scenes, ratchets down the whole backlight. Again black levels improve at the expense of highlights and sometimes-visible fluctuations in overall brightness.
Bottom line
It all comes down to "don't believe the marketing hype," at least not at face value. Local dimming can be a way to get near-plasma levels of picture quality. Or, it could offer some improvement compared with other TVs, and create a pleasing, if not class-leading, image. Or, it could be a marketing label for something that's not really much benefit at all. As usual, the best way to know is to check the reviews, where TVs with good local dimming usually dominate.
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post #4415 of 4544 Old 01-23-2014, 02:23 PM
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Vizio is going to have a 50" full array set this year for only $1K?

According to their site, they have 64 LED zones. I believe the HX950 has 196?
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post #4416 of 4544 Old 01-23-2014, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerTornado View Post

Vizio is going to have a 50" full array set this year for only $1K?

According to their site, they have 64 LED zones. I believe the HX950 has 196?

The HX950 has 96 on the 55". I believe the 65" has a few more.

The Vizio P series could be a serious contender and the Reference series might blow everything away.

55HX950 l SC-1522-K l SP-PK51FS l RW12-D l XB1 l PS4 l RNG200 l P31 LIVE:BPMURR PSN:BPMURR
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post #4417 of 4544 Old 01-23-2014, 09:43 PM
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Yep, we will see.......... I personally am not holding my breath.

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post #4418 of 4544 Old 01-24-2014, 06:24 AM
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Yep, we will see.......... I personally am not holding my breath.

I aint either.
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post #4419 of 4544 Old 01-24-2014, 06:41 AM
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The same thoughts were expressed when Oppo came on the market ......and now they are THE PLAYER, that all others are judged by.

*Sony XBR 929 & Sony XBR8-Denon 3311CI-Mirage V2 FS speakers w/S10 Sub-Oppo 93-Darbee DVP5000-Harmony 1100
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post #4420 of 4544 Old 01-24-2014, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

The HX950 has 96 on the 55". I believe the 65" has a few more.

The Vizio P series could be a serious contender and the Reference series might blow everything away.

55HX950 should be the same with 55HX92x -- 105 zones (15H x 7V)

65HX92x / 65HX950 -- 128 zones (16H x 8V)

46HX92x -- 72 zones(12H * 6V)


For the 65" size, I think 2048 zones (64H x 32V) are the minimum requirement to prevent noticable clouding on small bright spot object viewed in the dark room. But it will be too costly to be produced. On XBR-65X950B, maybe it will be increased to 512 zones (32H * 16V).
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post #4421 of 4544 Old 01-24-2014, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by tiger685287 

55HX950 should be the same with 55HX92x -- 105 zones (15H x 7V)

65HX92x / 65HX950 -- 128 zones (16H x 8V)

46HX92x -- 72 zones(12H * 6V)


For the 65" size, I think 2048 zones (64H x 32V) are the minimum requirement to prevent noticable clouding on small bright spot object viewed in the dark room. But it will be too costly to be produced. On XBR-65X950B, maybe it will be increased to 512 zones (32H * 16V).
If you would say that maybe zones on the 65X950B will be increased to 150 (128 zones is the Sony record!), i could live with such a comment. 512 Zones. No..will never happen. IMO 300 zones should be enough, worked for the Elite Pro..
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post #4422 of 4544 Old 01-24-2014, 08:36 AM
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The same thoughts were expressed when Oppo came on the market ......and now they are THE PLAYER, that all others are judged by.
Maybe back in the day, As far as playing back Blu Ray most agree that most Blu Ray player's , can play as well. They are noted for there audio connections and up scaling DVD capabilities. You can add a Darbee to any Blu Ray player as well..........

To each his own though........ A Panasonic BDP-DMP230 is a great unit for a great price.

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post #4423 of 4544 Old 01-24-2014, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMRIZZO View Post

The same thoughts were expressed when Oppo came on the market ......and now they are THE PLAYER, that all others are judged by.
Maybe back in the day, As far as playing back Blu Ray most agree that most Blu Ray player's , can play as well. They are noted for there audio connections and up scaling DVD capabilities. You can add a Darbee to any Blu Ray player as well..........

To each his own though........ A Panasonic BDP-DMP230 is a great unit for a great price.


I almost went with the DMP230 but being a Sony guy I went with the Sony S5100 which has been outstanding.
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post #4424 of 4544 Old 01-24-2014, 09:34 AM
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The same thoughts were expressed when Oppo came on the market ......and now they are THE PLAYER, that all others are judged by.


I doubt Rizz that Vizio will hold the same distinction that Oppo has earned. Vizio has a way to go. As far as their prices are concerned they are THE TV to beat right now but thats about it. They may prove me wrong.
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post #4425 of 4544 Old 01-24-2014, 04:05 PM
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I doubt Rizz that Vizio will hold the same distinction that Oppo has earned. Vizio has a way to go. As far as their prices are concerned they are THE TV to beat right now but thats about it. They may prove me wrong.

I'm not indicating that Vizio is another Oppo, what I was trying to express is that when Oppo first came on the market there was a lot of doubt to it's ability and quality and it proved itself to be a winner. and now Vizio is putting it's heart & soul into these reference TVs ....only time will tell.

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post #4426 of 4544 Old 01-25-2014, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by steve1971 View Post

I doubt Rizz that Vizio will hold the same distinction that Oppo has earned. Vizio has a way to go. As far as their prices are concerned they are THE TV to beat right now but thats about it. They may prove me wrong.

I'm not indicating that Vizio is another Oppo, what I was trying to express is that when Oppo first came on the market there was a lot of doubt to it's ability and quality and it proved itself to be a winner. and now Vizio is putting it's heart & soul into these reference TVs ....only time will tell.


I went to Vizio's website and took a look at their new Reference Tv's and they seem to be very impressive and so does their P model series tv's but I am very skepticle and it may be because of the horrible experience I had with them in the past. Times have changed I know but I still look at them as a Walmart brand tv and that's ok but not for me. Like I said maybe they will prove me wrong. Its a wait and see game.
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post #4427 of 4544 Old 01-26-2014, 12:28 AM
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Hey guys should I buy this tv or the Panny ZT60? I will be getting the 65".

I own a Panny 55vt50. I wanted to move that to my bedroom and get a bigger tv for the living room.

Any input would be nice.

Thanks,
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post #4428 of 4544 Old 01-26-2014, 09:42 AM
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That's a loaded question. Are you used to a plasma of LED ? Usually neither guy likes to swap technology. Big differences.

-- In the end I see you have a plasma, odds are you would not like some of the PQ changes that LED offers. Stick with a plasma. If you can not find your Panasonic look into the Samsung PN64F8500.
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post #4429 of 4544 Old 01-26-2014, 02:12 PM
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That's a loaded question. Are you used to a plasma of LED ? Usually neither guy likes to swap technology. Big differences.

no kidding....lol..

I was/am a die hard Sony person (Love the picture on my 46" 929 and all the larger I have calibrated). Sony is pretty much been every display I have owned, until I got interested in calibrations. Having said that, a relocation and some good deals later, I decided to get a couple of plasma displays before they became unicorns (plus a lot of controls). The price being so good, that regardless of their lifespan, they were worth trying.

So, As part of life, I look at each one in its situation every day... the Sony 929 in a bright/variable room over a fireplace with a relatively narrow, but long viewing distance and it does a great job overcoming ambient light and still getting a decent image. Then there's the 65"VT50. It's in the batcave at the moment, but I can't complain too much about the image comparatively. It's large, but it's a very comfortable image to watch and the detail is amazing. It has a feel to it to me. Not sure what I would call it exactly.

And lastly, I have a F8500 in the Master Bedroom. It is really in between the two in a lot of ways. It looks more like the image of the Sony LCD, but then it looks like it has the comfortable image of the VT. It's a 51', so being a bit smaller, it maintains the perception of more crispness from the distance I am normally watching it.

That's my 0.02. Buy something, get it calibrated properly, and enjoy it....

Regards,
tbaudoin
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post #4430 of 4544 Old 01-27-2014, 06:14 AM
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Hey guys should I buy this tv or the Panny ZT60? I will be getting the 65".

I own a Panny 55vt50. I wanted to move that to my bedroom and get a bigger tv for the living room.

Any input would be nice.

Thanks,


I would buy the Panasonic ZT60 no questions asked. It is and was one of the best from Panasonic. If I wouldnt have bought my Sony HX850 The ZT60 would have been my only choice.
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post #4431 of 4544 Old 01-29-2014, 05:22 AM
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How does the 65 inch HX950 compare with the Sony 65 inch W850A in terms of colors and picture quality, if price is not an issue, or even Samsung F8000. Trying to decide between these 3 sets.
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post #4432 of 4544 Old 01-29-2014, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by bestboy1 View Post

How does the 65 inch HX950 compare with the Sony 65 inch W850A in terms of colors and picture quality, if price is not an issue, or even Samsung F8000. Trying to decide between these 3 sets.

Get the HX950. One the best sets made by Sony if not the last.
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post #4433 of 4544 Old 01-29-2014, 07:35 AM
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Get the HX950. One the best sets made by Sony if not the last.

I second that.

Full array local dimming on the 950 is the only reason you need to choose it over the 850 smile.gif.
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post #4434 of 4544 Old 01-29-2014, 11:53 AM
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I second that.

Full array local dimming on the 950 is the only reason you need to choose it over the 850 smile.gif.

I noticed that W850A has triluminos color display. Would this make the color more deeper and vibrant on w850a compared to HX950.
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post #4435 of 4544 Old 01-29-2014, 01:37 PM
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I noticed that W850A has triluminos color display. Would this make the color more deeper on vibrant on w850a compared to HX950.

I have seen both side by side and I thought the 950 looked better overall compared to the 850. There was a noticeable difference to me. I don't think the triluminous tech is a gimmick but the 950 is a beast (and once retailed for quite a bit more than the 850) compared to the 850. If the pricing between the two wasn't close now, I would understand struggling with a choice. It's an easy decision in my opinion.
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post #4436 of 4544 Old 01-29-2014, 06:11 PM
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Here is what a Sony 55HX929 looks like after subjected to a direct hit from a F4 tornado and 190 mph winds. My house was near the center path of distruction. I was very sad to see the TV destroyed especially since I picked it up for $2700 on Amazon before the Sony price fixing. There is light at the end of the tunnel as I just took delivery today from Amazon a Panasonic 60ZT60 plasma. The one piece front of the Panny is almost identical to the 929/950...except the TV weighs 125 pounds. For $2300, it was a no brainer.

ejuguja6.jpg

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post #4437 of 4544 Old 01-30-2014, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bourmb View Post

Here is what a Sony 55HX929 looks like after subjected to a direct hit from a F4 tornado and 190 mph winds. My house was near the center path of distruction. I was very sad to see the TV destroyed especially since I picked it up for $2700 on Amazon before the Sony price fixing. There is light at the end of the tunnel as I just took delivery today from Amazon a Panasonic 60ZT60 plasma. The one piece front of the Panny is almost identical to the 929/950...except the TV weighs 125 pounds. For $2300, it was a no brainer.

ejuguja6.jpg

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


Holy crap!!! The most important thing is your alright. Tv's can be replaced lives cant. That being said congrats on your selection of the Panny ZT60. A beauty in so many ways and sad to see that Panasonic didnt follow up on them.
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post #4438 of 4544 Old 01-30-2014, 03:41 PM
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I do lot of my tv watching on satellite. How does the HD channels and analog channels look on this set compared to lets say Samsung F8000?
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post #4439 of 4544 Old 01-30-2014, 06:29 PM
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I do lot of my tv watching on satellite. How does the HD channels and analog channels look on this set compared to lets say Samsung F8000?

Lets just say you wont be disappointed with the HX950 bestboy.
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post #4440 of 4544 Old 01-30-2014, 07:34 PM
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Lets just say you wont be disappointed with the HX950 bestboy.
I will second that evaluation, the 950 is an exceptional set.
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